Author Topic: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**  (Read 5506 times)

Offline spiralz

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How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« on: 13.08. 2012 21:30 »
 *angry* *sad2*

i've been really enjoying my (new to me) A10 which had about 1000 miles ago had an engine rebuild with various mods as listed in other post introducing myself....

i decided that after i had done about 500 miles to be on the safe side i would do an oil change..... *sad2*

i gave her a quick run to warm the oil then drained the tank, and removed the SRM sump plate and basically saw this....



the bike has been running fine

i have not been thrashing it just steady 45 - 65 country lane cruising....

does anyone know what this is??

it seems to be lumps of silicone some fine metal fillings and the remnants of a very fine shim/washer

i gave every thing a good clean replaced the oil (castrol 20/50) run the engine (seemed fine) oil returning to the tank fine...

VERY slight black smoke from right pipe but hardly noticable....

im stumped and worried....

thanks in advance for any input


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Online RichardL

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Re: How bad is this!?!
« Reply #1 on: 13.08. 2012 22:09 »
I think she's got to come apart mate. Either the previous mechanic placed the crank shims on the wrong side of the bearing or on the wrong side of the crank. They belong between the main bearing inner race and the crankshaft web on the drive side. Another possibility is that the main bearing inner race was spinning on the crankshaft. Neither good. Both mean it has to come apart to replace the shims, ensure the stability of the bearing, remove all the other shim bits and, while you're there, check out everything else.

Sorry for the bad news, but I think you must have known.

Richard L.
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Online chaterlea25

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Re: How bad is this!?!
« Reply #2 on: 13.08. 2012 22:32 »
HI spiralz

Richad is on the money with the diagnosis  *sad2*
One thing to check as you (or your BSA tech LOL) dismantle the bike is to see whether the cush drive nut on the clutch end of the crankshaft had been fully tightened??
This needs to be tightened to 65ft lbs
I have found a lot of these loose !!!! this can allow movement between the drive side bearing and the crank
and the shim breaks up
Its fairly normal to find small fine metallic bits in the sump filter on a rebuilt engine

"LUMPS OF SILICON"  *eek* *eek* this stuff kills more engines than it fixes  *rant*  *angry*

Regards
John
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Offline Rocket Racer

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Re: How bad is this!?!
« Reply #3 on: 14.08. 2012 06:57 »
Just goes to show how important checking and cleaning filters is.
While not nice to find a shim, its still not the end of the world, just a chance to become more acquainted with the inside of your engine ;)

At least it hasnt put a leg out of bed *eek*

Might be worth checking the end float before you tear it down. But it does need tearing down!
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A good rider periodically checks all nuts and bolts with a spanner to see that they are tight - Instruction Manual for BSA B series, p46, para 2.
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Offline spiralz

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Re: How bad is this!?!
« Reply #4 on: 19.08. 2012 19:05 »
Thanks for the replies, quick update;

called the place i bought it from told them although i bought a historic bike with little grounds for warranty that i felt it only reasonable to ask for their help in the matter as it was sold as fully rebuilt engine.

They have agreed they will strip repair and rebuild if i take the engine to them.

so i have removed the engine, this where the plot thickens a little.

the primary chain was very tight and the gearbox was fully forward with no room for adjustment so i checked the pitch and it has a 68 pitch chain in there but my bike 56' swingarm should have a 69 pitch chain!!!  *eek*

so this must/could be what's caused the whole issue? i mean i'm guessing a bit here but with the undue stress on the main shaft and bearing it may have caused the shim to be pinched and eaten up?  *problem*

i'm hoping that it hasn't done too much more damage but im sure i'll find out when it gets rebuilt at the garage...... not happy but at least there's light up the tunnel so to speak.

has anyone heard of this issue before.

cheers, Jim
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Offline fido

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #5 on: 20.08. 2012 06:20 »
No, I don't think the tight primary could affect the shims if they were put in correctly during the rebuild. I personally would not trust this firm to redo the engine if they were willing to send out a bike with the primary chain like that.
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Offline JulianM

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #6 on: 20.08. 2012 08:06 »
Hi Fido,

While I agree to your sentiments with regard to the wrong chain being fitted, it does only seem fair to let them honor their gesture that they have offered. It does seem like they want to do the right thing so maybe allow them a little slack?  Fingers crossed.

On a good note, it is very honorable of the company to offer this work and fair play to them for this!


Good luck both.
Julian
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Offline duTch

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #7 on: 20.08. 2012 09:44 »
Be a bonus for you too if they allow you to come and see what's going on in there, but maybe a bit optimistic?
 You say it was the correct chain, but just not enough rollers(68 of 69)?

 Cheers good luck with it, duTch
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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline shuswapkev

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #8 on: 20.08. 2012 10:01 »
how can you get an uneven number of rollers???a half link??
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Offline duTch

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #9 on: 20.08. 2012 10:11 »
Yeah Kev, I was trying to pretend it wasn't happening! - how was brekky in Canungra,(without changing topic)?
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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline spiralz

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #10 on: 20.08. 2012 12:24 »
 *ex*

I wasn't sure either but here is a 68 which I have;

http://www.tribsanoruk.com/product/2619/3/

and here is the one listed for my model (56-a10) which shows as a 69??

http://www.tribsanoruk.com/product/2618/3/

 *dunno*
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Offline spiralz

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Re: How bad is this!?!
« Reply #11 on: 20.08. 2012 12:31 »
HI spiralz
 
One thing to check as you (or your BSA tech LOL) dismantle the bike is to see whether the cush drive nut on the clutch end of the crankshaft had been fully tightened??
This needs to be tightened to 65ft lbs
I have found a lot of these loose !!!! this can allow movement between the drive side bearing and the crank
and the shim breaks up


Regards
John

Thanks john,

the nut was as tight as to be honest, but the garage I took it back to said some things not right as there seemed to be no end float at all???
it's being pulled apart on friday so i will know more then....
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Offline duTch

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #12 on: 20.08. 2012 13:14 »
Don't get me wrong spiraz, I'm not disputing, just was when I first read it I thought that was a type of chain, but quickly realised what you meant, just asked the question to clarify, and keep it simple. Ive done half links in the past when the need arose.
 cheers duTch
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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline fido

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #13 on: 20.08. 2012 18:03 »
Be a bonus for you too if they allow you to come and see what's going on in there, but maybe a bit optimistic?
 You say it was the correct chain, but just not enough rollers(68 of 69)?

 Cheers good luck with it, duTch

Yes, they might just give it a rub over with an oily rag and ring a few days later to declare it "ready". I remember when I lived in Coventry and bought a brand new bike from a dealer in Manchester. I had to ride it all the way back to Manchester for the first service in order to keep the warranty valid. One of the items on the first service was supposed to be a new oil filter but when I collected the bike I could tell they had not touched it as the road dirt was undisturbed.
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Online RichardL

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Re: How bad is this!?! **UPDATE**
« Reply #14 on: 20.08. 2012 19:46 »
Yes,  being able to observe the innards will tell you a lot.  Amongst other things,  I would want a new main bearing and to know to a certainty that the inner race is a good snug fit on the crank.  Then,  I would want the sludge trap cleaned on principle,  even if they said they did it last time.

Richard L.
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Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.