The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Gearbox, Clutch, Primary => Topic started by: Dynamo Regulators Mike on 12.05. 2009 18:07
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My gearbox makes a lot of noise in 2nd & 3rd gears, just like a lot of them do to a greater or lesser degree. Have often wondered if fitting needle rollers would help this. If 8 or 10 % of power is lost in these ratios and the loss is reduced by fitting the Torrington bearings (source Roland Pike autobiography notes), then some of the energy will surely be lost as noise and vibration, and the oil does not seem to get very warm at all.
But is a much easier improvement to be had by adding Molyslip g'box additive? Can't see it could do any harm and it might do some good. Anyone here tried it?
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Yep and it still whines in third
All the best - Bill
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So did it cure noise in second then Bill.
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I seriously doubt anything but sawdust is going to help the whine. The source is usually either a bad bearing or wear in the gears. The mainshaft ball bearings will make noise themselves while the increased clearance from worn layshaft bearings will make the gears whine. Of course, excess clearance from the gears themselves being worn will make them whine as well, which is typically the case for 2nd gear...
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If Molyslip miay as well be heavy duty snake oil what grade of sawdust is recommended?
All bearings and bushes were renewed just a few thousand miles ago. Gears looked pretty good for wear but then it would presumably only take a couple of thou to make a difference. Another possibility is a slightly bent shaft I guess.
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Chez moi, only 3rd whines under light load and I've got used to it. Started after I changed the top gear (mainshaft) pinion and made a new sleeve gear bush: non-matching pinions was the result and a noise was probably inevitable. Second is OK, but too low as I often say, not its fault. Haven't tried snake-oil or Molyslip but I guess they may help. It's only a thou or two here or there, as Mike said. I doubt the noise consumes much of the power!
More cheerfully, 3rd on my B31 is absolutely silent by comparison. Could always change the guts round I suppose, to put the lower stressed bits in the more stressed box . . . but think I'll preserve the single, as it runs like a new bike . . . Not, in my oily world, a big worry - touch wood.
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I only use oak #000 sawdust... *smile*
But seriously...even if you probed the clearance between the gears with a feeler gauge, I don't think you can say at what point it will start making audible noise, because it's aslo dependent on load, speed...the type of helmet you're wearing... Maybe someone knows, but I sure don't.
I rebushed the gearbox in my A10 and replaced the bearings a couple of years ago to get rid of the whine in 2nd gear. It works exactly the same now and makes exactly the same noise. I don't think it takes much wear on the gears as once the involute shape is compromised, the teeth all come together with a small "clap". All you can do is get to 4th gear quickly. No whine there.
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Fit the lower gear side car sprocket.
The 3rd will be too low and you will pop it into top a lot sooner ;-)
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Ah, I had not thought about the noise being just in low gears. I thought it was always noisy but drowned out by the exhaust at higher speeds. I bought some molyslip for mine but have not got round to putting it in yet.
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I will try adding molyslip as well, unless any real horror stories turn up in the meantime.
Interesting that groily changed the sleeve (output) gear bush and suffered whining. Mine too was changed and fitted to a nice freshly ground mainshaft surface. I am now wondering if a fraction too little clearance here would add to the whining. It doesn't always seem to get too much oil up there (there are sometimes signs of rust on the shafts). Maybe thats where a solid lubricant film may pay dividends.
Will leave any needle roller experiemnting to a later date.
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Mine only ever whines in third, could well be the layshaft every one I've ever seen has been scored at the ends.
I renewed ths bushes but don't think it could make much difference/
All the best - Bill
Sorry if you read this elsewhere - I replied to the wrong subject *red*
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Had to change the mainshaft gear too Mike, with it's adjacent pinion, as the dogs had worn down and top wouldn't stay engaged. But didn't change the layshaft bits for lack of them. Sleeve could be a bit tight though, and under-oiled, it's a good point - although in that case I'd expect some sort of noise in neutral too wouldn't I? I tried to make the bush as good a fit as I could after making good the oval mainshaft, and I made it in one piece rather than the two often found in there. Original problem was that the sleeve gear bushes weren't properly in place, someone had hammered the outer one into the gear from the outside to try to get the clutch on, the inner bush was forced a wee bit proud on the inside, and so the top gear dogs wouldn't fully mesh, so wore out. And there were all sorts of associated things not right at the kickstart side in consequence of this misalignment - bit of a foul up really and put all sorts of stress on everything. Says something for the box that it stood it for however long.
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My Wife wines a lot when i shove off out on the bike!
However i use Molyslip in My Bonnie and in my A65T, with no ill effects! I originally put it in the Bonnie to help with a wining Layshaft and it did help. I dont think it will cause you any problems Mike and in my mind can only be better, Helping all that gear train to slide around easier.
The only place i wouldnt want it to be is in the Primary chain case!!!!
Go with it Mike, it can only help short of stripping the box again, maybe the next time you take it all down have another look through the box.
Regards
Steve
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mine doesnt whine ????
whats wrong ?????????? *smile*
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Hi
Finally got around to changing the gearbox oil and adding Molyslip.
Conclusion: Not all snake oil should be tarred with the same brush.
The improvement is amazing. The box is much quieter out and about in 2nd & 3rd on a 70 mile steady run yesterday, lots of intermediate gear running through the 30 mph villages to verify.
The ride was also improved in another way. The fast boys / nutters weren't out in force per most Sundays on the local minor A roads. There was much rain overnight and the odd daytime shower. Poor dears stayed inside presumably.
But us from Hants BSA Branch did not get a drop.
Wicksteed next weekend and another 300 miles.
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Hi Mike
Nice to hear you found Molyslip a good product, i have always used it to be honest and found it certainly improves things! I know there area lot of claims about certain products but Molyslip does do a good job! I also have it in the engines.
BTW i have just seen you are a member of the Hants BSAOC well im next door at Thames Valley... a newish member to that branch.
Oohh Manor Mike.... No dont tell me, i have just fell in! Mick Hutchings? Manor Technology, Im getting old!
Nice Regulator Mike! i always recommend it. I built a Reg some years ago for my bike, we'll have to chat one day!
Safe riding
Steve Rickman
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Theres some good lads in the Thames Vally Branch, cant understand why Hants Ian is not with us on this forum as he's an A7 owner and a very knowlegable chap! Kind guy too when he help me out with my broken gearbox mainshaft. Send my regards to the lads there! You'll meet Paul Jarvis too, another great guy with alotta knowledge about these machines.
Heres a photo of that busted mainshaft!...
(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv631%2Fmr-lj35%2Fth_DSCF3303.jpg&hash=ec39340ef7238a7c36eda47be3f1b3aca274d9ac) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v631/mr-lj35/?action=view¤t=DSCF3303.jpg) Click Picture to Enlarge
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Hi Steve & LJ
Will see you LJ at Wicksteed. That broken mainshaft must have been noisy too, for a short while. Ouch.*cry*
We (Hants) try to link up with TV branch a bit, and now we have new neighbors to the East in new W Sussex Branch.
The Branch will be running out to meet TV on the Saturday before the longest day, 20 June (revised from Sunday in Cliff Turvill's calendar). See you there Steve? Ian C is incredibly knowledgable and of course very hands in as well, not simply an armchair expert. The AA roadside repair background must help. And also a fan of the Manor regulator *red*
Apologies to those farther afield that this has become a bit parochial.
Cheers
Mike
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Ouch LJ!!
I know Ian quite well and Matt and a few of the others, i thought it was about time i joined a branch! it might get me out more, I work too much than is good for me, and too many weekends .... Makes Jack a dull boy!
Apologies to those readers while i waffle...
Anyhow LJ maybe if you put Molyslip in you wouldnt have popped that shaft *smiley4*
If it works and keeps those bearing surfaces coated then on start up it must reduce the wear even by a small amount every little helps in my opinion. And i swear that my A65 is quieter since i put Molyslip in. A10s are always quieter than A65s but im convinced its made mine far quieter than it was.
Nice to meet you Mike
Cheers LJ
Talk to you both Soon
Maybe even catch you on a Run someday hopefully.
Steve
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So, I went looking for Molyslip in the U.S. and find that it is not marketed here, or, at least, that I can find. I think I might try to pick some up when in London next week if, for some reason, I walk by an auto parts store between the hotel and the Underground. I don't know why it's not sold in the U.S. There are other brands, I think, but not sold at one of the largest auto parts houses. Is it a motorcylce-specific item? Is there a chain of stores that carries Molyslip for which which I can use the internet to find a location close to where I'll be (around Marlebone)?
Richard L.
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Hi Richard
You'll get it in any decent Auto store, chain stores here like "Halfords" will sell it and most other Motor accessory shops. The Gear oil additive comes in a tube to add to the gear box and the engine oil version comes in a small can.
Im sure we can get you some if you get stuck!
Regards
Steve
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manosound,
If you really must stick stuff in your oil, try some good ole yankee 'Lucas oil stabilizer'
A couple of people who should know swear by it. Its worth a google.
no relation to the prince of darkness ..... I'd hope.
cheers
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For you Richard, You'd best to visit Halfords, the nearest to where your staying is Between St Pauls Cathedral and Newgate Prison in the East End of London. A possible walking distance if you have fit legs.
3 - 4 Ave Maria Lane,
ST. Pauls
London
EC4M 7AQ
0207 332 4160
Here is a page of Molyslip products that they stock... http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=molyslip&x=24&y=11&action=search&storeId=10001&catalogId=10151&langId=-1 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=molyslip&x=24&y=11&action=search&storeId=10001&catalogId=10151&langId=-1)
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I finally changed the oil in the A7 gearbox today and put in my little tube of Molyslip. I'm doing the "Brechin Bimble" tomorrow, a 100 mile run, so I will see if it's any quieter.
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mine only whines when the missis is about *smile*
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Can't say I could tell any difference with the Molyslip in :!