The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: Padsta33 on 03.08. 2016 13:06
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Maybe a dumb questions but are matching numbers of frame and engine just that...matching? Or do certain engines match certain frames?
Confused....
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they do not match for A10/7 (later A50/65 do I believe)
often when the term matching numbers is used for our A's it means the frame number and engine number match in as much as they were produced in the same year, lists of frame and engine numbers do exists, if no one else put them up I think I have then somewhere - will look later
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My limited knowledge of this is the Engine number and Frame numbers are not the same but match with regard to factory despatch records until numbers with ?A******, up to late Pre-unit A series that became GA****s
B-Bill rounded me up
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Here's a good list of all BSA's http://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/
Cheers
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Here's a good list of all BSA's http://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/
Cheers
Cheers Muskrat, that's pretty comprehensive!
Would my 1957 a10 standard have same prefixes as the Swingarm goldflash?
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The 1957 plunger had engine # BA10-16036 ^, frame # BA7S-20289 ^.
The 1957 swing arms were either Gold Flash or Road Rocket. GF engine CA10-, RR CA10R-, both EA7- frames.
Cheers
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The 1957 plunger had engine # BA10-16036 ^, frame # BA7S-20289 ^.
The 1957 swing arms were either Gold Flash or Road Rocket. GF engine CA10-, RR CA10R-, both EA7- frames.
Cheers
Brilliant!
That puts me in the "matching number club" then.
Great info...Cheers.
Paddy
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Well there are 2 definitions for matching numbers then, I'm not sure why some buyers will pay more for a bike that has the paired numbers it left the factory with but to avoid any misunderstanding should you ever sell the bike I would make it clear whether the numbers are just of the same year or whether they are paired as they left the factory.
Technically my bike has matching numbers paired as they left the factory, but the (unnumbered) timing side crankcase is actually off another bike due to past crankshaft blow up (I actually have the case but it's in door stop condition). That underlines the fact that a paired numbered bike may only comprise the original frame and left hand crank case and the rest of the bike could be a collection of parts.
The engine number is the primary way BSA indicated the model (a7, golden flash, road rocket, super rocket etc), and is also the order/sequence the bikes were despached date wise (and in the original BSA despatch records) I'm reliably told, so it's easier to find the frame number that was fitted to an engine than vice versa.
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Hi,
I'm a new member to this forum and seeing this question has prompted me to ask my own. I'm looking to buy an A7SS and I'm wondering is someone can tell me if this particular frame and engine left the factory together...
Frame CA7-12797
Engine CA7SS-1881
Im reasonably sure both are 1955 but the numbers looked too far apart to me to have left together.
Would appreciate any thoughts...thanks.
Steve
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It does appear that they are both '55. They would not be matching numbers and the distance between numbers is not a concern, as long as they fit within the ranges shown on the list. Barring numbers being tossed out, the frame would be the 5,296th built for '55 and the engine the 1,380th of its type. This makes sense, since the same frame was used for several different models. All this said, the only way to know if they left the factory together is to get the dispatch report from BSAOCUK. Go to their website and follow the instructions for getting a dating certificate.
Richard L.
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Well, the path to finding the dating certificate application form is not completely obvious, so here it is:
http://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/machine_dating/BSADCVR_request.pdf
Richard L.
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Oh, I almost forgot, "Welcome to the forum." *welcome* An intro post telling a bit how you came to have your A7, or interest in bikes in general is always appreciated. Also, if you feel like it, we all love pics of bikes in all states of repair or finish. Finally, a little insight to approximately where you are located can sometimes help in giving (or getting) local information for parts, services and events.
Richard L.
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Richard,
Thanks for your replies...they were very helpful!
I asked about the particular frame and engine nos as it was a bike that I went to see yesterday with a view to buying it. The owner had a copy of the original 1955 registration document which showed the same nos. so I now feel pretty certain that both frame and engine left the factory together. My only concern was that I couldn't actually read the frame no. on the bike as it had been powder coated some years ago...not something I particularly like. Anyway, I've taken a chance and bought it...it's one of those bikes that the owner has had for 10 years and also knew its whereabouts for the previous 20 odd years, so I have a reasonably good feeling about it. In fact, it seems not to have moved out of a 10 mile radius from the original dealer who sold it in 1955.
This is the first BSA twin I have ever owned but the second BSA (I've had a Starfire for 20 years) so I will no doubt be needing lots of help on this forum. By the way, I'm located in Buckinghamshire in the UK
Steve
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Here's a good list of all BSA's http://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/
I've seen this link a few times but couldn't remember where I saved the link, so picked a random one as it's mentioned in a few posts....
While checking for where my frame # fits in the sequence I just need to satisfy my curiousity that there are no A7 Plunger models listed after 1954, so presume they were (quite logically) discontinued thereafter...is that correct ??
This more specific ; https://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/1951-60.html (https://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/1951-60.html)
( For what it's worth, as far as I can tell with crossed-eyes, my BA7S 1919* is 500 short of the tally of 19698 for the '57 year run so I guess I'd say was stamped around May-June '57 ?? ). That makes it one of the most modern Plunger A10's, with a tried and true '52/3 engine...so with its engine specs, I can almost be quite justified in calling it an 'early Rocket' *conf* ? )
*smile*
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From Glass's Motor Cycle check book showing last A10 plunger frame and engine number in July 1957.
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From Glass's Motor Cycle check book showing last A10 plunger frame and engine number in July 1957.
Ok, so I'm a year ahead of myself which makes mine probably a '56 model Frame (~circa mid-Aplril '56 ?) ; depending how I interpret the numbers,like if I start from August @ ~ 141.5 units/month.
^^ That isn't important, but just a matter of interest...
My main query was the discontinuation of the A7 PLUNGER models after '54, but still not important, just curious
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Glass's check book showing the A7. No plungers shown after 1954.
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Wouldnt the bsa club uk site be the definitive source?
That says A7 plungers finished In 54, A10 plungers finished in 57, if I'm reading it right.....but 1957 a10s plunger still had ba7s numbered frames.
http://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/yearlist1951.html
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The factory despatch books will detail what was despatched to where and when.
The information in Glass's check books came from the manufacturers.
Sometimes you will see information in one source which is missing from another - for example in Glass's they list the 1954 low production swinging arm A7 Star Twin with CA7S engine prefix - which does not appear in the BSAOC year listing - and on the other hand Glass's does not show the very early Gold Star swinging arm frame from 1953 with BB32A prefix and the BSAOC list does.
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Thanks Julian, fairly much demonstrates what is stated in the other link https://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/1951-60.html (https://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/1951-60.html)
Kiwi, yeah-but..what you say is valid and I agree that the A7 Frames with A7 engines finished in/after '54, but the A10 powered rigs lived on, keeping in mind they were (by my understanding) more suited to the work-hack/ sidecar units...and the info in your link seems to be the same info as the one I pilfered which has been re-hashed into years
Also keep in mind that ALL the swing frames (A7 & A10) were '*A7 *****' until the GA10 RGS frames..... *pull hair out*
I'm not trying to be some kinda know-all, 'cos I really know F-all, that's why I asked, and also to help get the info out for folk who need to know
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These kind of post remind me of my very first restoration project which was over 20 years ago. I bought a BSA basket case which I assumed was A10 I recieved with it a dating certificate issued by the Vintage Motorcycle Club which stated that the engine and frame numbers were from 1957. The engine although in bits was 1957 as I thought the frame was but when I started the restoration I found that certain parts were from different years ie it had the ariel hubs but the front forks were earlier. On completion of the restoration I got an age related plate and it is registered as a 1957 A10 Gold Flash. Some time later I applied through the BSA owners club when I became a member for a dating certificate, I then learned that the engine was 1957 but the frame left the factory in 1956 and had a 500cc Shooting Star engine fitted. Now the BSA owners club will only recognise a model by it's frame regardless of what engine is fitted I relayed all this info to the person I sold it too but he was not concerned he just liked the bike as it was. I seen him last year and he has had the bike about 4 years now and is well pleased with it but has now fitted an electric start to it of his own design, works great. I learnt a lot from that first restoration particularly when buying a basket case.
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Hi Bikerbob, it could still be that your bike left bsa in 56 but was a 57 *dunno* I say this as there are a few grey areas, my bike being one of them.
This has just come up for me as I am going through the re registering for a b31, on the form I had to put year of manufacture, which would technically be 48 according to the Vmcc uk, but it is a 49 model according to the published bsa numbering system, this being cos bsa introduced new models some time around August the "year before". So I decided to register as a 49.
The practice of making new models prior to the calendar year is still common practice for many car and bike makers today. Maybe so the new models are in the showrooms in plenty of time for the calendar year to start.
I've also read bsa used a July summer holiday factory shut down to change over production lines to new models, but also conversely sometimes used up previous years parts on the new models. My A10 frame is an oddball in that respect having still got an extra lug for a 55 style rear rod brake *eek* that later 56 bikes did not have
My A10 (engine and frame) left bsa in dec 1955 according to the bsa despatch records, but is a 56 model so with Ariel hubs.
Using year of registration confuses things even further, if a bike sat in a showroom for a year it could very well become a 57 that was made in 55!
These kind of post remind me of my very first restoration project which was over 20 years ago. I bought a BSA basket case which I assumed was A10 I recieved with it a dating certificate issued by the Vintage Motorcycle Club which stated that the engine and frame numbers were from 1957. The engine although in bits was 1957 as I thought the frame was but when I started the restoration I found that certain parts were from different years ie it had the ariel hubs but the front forks were earlier. On completion of the restoration I got an age related plate and it is registered as a 1957 A10 Gold Flash. Some time later I applied through the BSA owners club when I became a member for a dating certificate, I then learned that the engine was 1957 but the frame left the factory in 1956 and had a 500cc Shooting Star engine fitted. Now the BSA owners club will only recognise a model by it's frame regardless of what engine is fitted I relayed all this info to the person I sold it too but he was not concerned he just liked the bike as it was. I seen him last year and he has had the bike about 4 years now and is well pleased with it but has now fitted an electric start to it of his own design, works great. I learnt a lot from that first restoration particularly when buying a basket case.
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The frame was dispatched 6th May 1956 to a local dealer at the time Cowies of Sunderland. This would make it 1956 as the 1957 models would not start until August 1956. One of the 2 bikes which I now own is a 1963 A65 was dispatched in October 1962 to a dealer in Exeter but was not first registered until June 1963 it is however a 1963 model as it has the rod operated rear brake whereas the 1962 model has the cable operated rear brake. My other bike is a 1956 A7 for which I have quite a large history file it has had 11 previous owners I have the names and addresses of all previous owners also MOT's which prove the mileage a photograph rather blurred taken in 1962 of the then owner on a camping trip in Wales and a later photo I think of the then owner sometime in the 1980's. Interestingly it still has it's original registration but in the late 1980's the then owner changed the registration number for some reason but this lasted for only a year then it was changed back to it's original registration number. I would like to know why but am loathe to try to contact the owner at that time because it is so long ago he may not live at that adress or may have passed away, maybe it was a personalised number who knows.
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The DVLA may know about the number change and change back for your A7. You can apply to them using their form V888. They will charge you a small fee.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/v888-request-by-an-individual-for-information-about-a-vehicle
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Thanks for that info Julian I will look into that.