The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: gpo746 on 19.10. 2017 19:22
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Firstly, I would like to say hello to everyone *smile*.
I have just purchased a 1954 A7 (SS) and wanted to know if this center stand would fit :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Centre-Stand-BSA-B31-B33-DBD-GOLDSTAR-SWINGI-Swinging-Arm-42-4719-/142540393442?hash=item213011cbe2:g:lnQAAOSww9xZJes5
The distance inside lug to lug is 4" . I think 42-4725 is the correct one but seeing they are very hard to come by I wondered if the eBay one would fit even though the advertised part number is 42-4719 . I think the stands are made in India and wondered if anyone had experience with these and if they were any good or not.
My "Bike" ...rather box of bits with a frame .. has lots missing *sad2*
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It should fit BUT the twin stand has an extension which projects past the clutch side silencer allowing a foot to be placed on it to assist raising onto the stand. With the single stand less extension it is not quite as simple due to position of silencer.
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It should fit BUT the twin stand has an extension which projects past the clutch side silencer allowing a foot to be placed on it to assist raising onto the stand. With the single stand less extension it is not quite as simple due to position of silencer.
Thanks JulianS , I might hold out for the proper one if the one I pointed out isn't really suitable.
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They can be expensive;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A10-A7-B31-33-SWING-ARM-CENTER-STAND-ROCKET-GOLD-FLASH-STAR-RGS-PROJECT-/361807170079?hash=item543d634a1f:g:0pcAAOSwo4pYGOJM
Whist you are waiting it is worth carefully inspecting the frame cross tube on which the stand bears - not unusual to find it damaged after years of being pulled onto the stand.
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Hi gpo,
Whether the stand would fit or not depends on the frame mounting lugs?
The lugs for the stand in the links are different to other/later A or B frames
Attached pic is of the lugs for the forged stand, a reinforcing half tube fits between the lugs and is welded to the frame cross tube to act as stops for the stand
A friend sent me this pic from USA
The original stand was made from two parts, in the second link the stand weld can seen to be cracked which is common *warn*
I would be sceptical of the quality of the imported stand??
Autocycle Engineering had new stands made in UK the last time I was there (1 piece construction)
I have just spent a lot of time making new frame lugs and reinforcing piece for my 54/5 B31 frame
along with repairing /re bushing the stand, (its going to be a "Goldie" Special *work* )
John
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Hi gpo,
Whether the stand would fit or not depends on the frame mounting lugs?
The lugs for the stand in the links are different to other/later A or B frames
Attached pic is of the lugs for the forged stand, a reinforcing half tube fits between the lugs and is welded to the frame cross tube to act as stops for the stand
A friend sent me this pic from USA
The original stand was made from two parts, in the second link the stand weld can seen to be cracked which is common *warn*
I would be sceptical of the quality of the imported stand??
Autocycle Engineering had new stands made in UK the last time I was there (1 piece construction)
I have just spent a lot of time making new frame lugs and reinforcing piece for my 54/5 B31 frame
along with repairing /re bushing the stand, (its going to be a "Goldie" Special *work* )
John
Hi John,
Many Thanks for the info and the picture. They are the same rounded lugs I have on my frame. I found a seller on ebay selling the Indian made B31 stand OEM equiv 42-4719
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-B31-B32-B33-B33-DBD-GOLDSTAR-SWINGING-ARM-MODEL-BLACK-CENTER-STAND-DE-/152738784424?hash=item238ff0e4a8:g:j1YAAOSwVGhZgBzo
However, I do NOT think it will fit as the seller gives the distance between the lugs as 3/12" and the distance between my lugs is 4" So, clearly there is a mismatch just there.
Begs the question if the A7 stands are that rare why someone is not knocking them out somewhere. I have a Royal Enfield Bullet 350 and the build quality is quite good really. The center stand is solid and works well so, I would be open minded to an import ...on the other hand I have seen one site that has removed side stands because of bad batch issues ...
Thanks from Dom
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Hi Dom,
That stand has the rough appearance of cast (iron?)
It also does not have the sleeve that goes through the pivot
Just think of the damage that can happen if the bike falls when the stand fails *problem* *problem*
John
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Hi Dom,
That stand has the rough appearance of cast (iron?)
It also does not have the sleeve that goes through the pivot
Just think of the damage that can happen if the bike falls when the stand fails *problem* *problem*
John
Quite, That is why I think I might bite the bullet(proverbial...not my other bike) and try find a decent second hand one. Do the lugs on the frame look ok to you? standard ones etc?
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Hi Dom,
From your photo It looks like the frame lugs have been changed/modified at some stage They look parallel sided not tapered as in the pic I posted above..
The frame you have is missing the half tube reinforcing that the stand stops sit against.
The way the tube was fitted originally allowed water to get trapped between the parts as it was only welded on its ends to the lugs and not along its length
The lugs I made are heavier and wider than the originals *work* the should last several lifetimes *????* *????*
Some pics of the work so far, The whole lot needs to be on its wheels so the stand stops can be "adjusted" so the stand folds up and down to the correct angles (You can see the weld a PO snotted onto the stand stops *eek*)
John
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Begs the question if the A7 stands are that rare why someone is not knocking them out somewhere.
Dom,
Right off, I can think of three or four members who could answer this question in more accurate detail, but I'm going to give it a try, having (just now) brushed-up on forging.
First, you need a forging press. I'm just guessing, but maybe with around 1000 tons of force. Then, you need machined dies for the closed-die process. It may require more than one set of dies for progessive forming. Then, you need a forge in which to heat the iron billet. Then, of course, you need the people to run the process. I believe BSA had all these facilites in-house and produced each part by the thousands (or tens of thousands?) to justify the costs. Sticking my neck out, I will guess about $40K (I could be wildly off in either direction, but I like guessing prices) in design, die machining and forge setup charges just to get started FOR ONE STYLE from an established shop. Then there is the actual cost of labor, materials and marketing, not to mention profit. So, maybe it works if you can sell 1000 at $300/ea.
Richard L.
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Yeah, I suppose thats why they are not on the market then *eek* *smile*!
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Hi Dom,
From your photo It looks like the frame lugs have been changed/modified at some stage They look parallel sided not tapered as in the pic I posted above..
The frame you have is missing the half tube reinforcing that the stand stops sit against.
The way the tube was fitted originally allowed water to get trapped between the parts as it was only welded on its ends to the lugs and not along its length
The lugs I made are heavier and wider than the originals *work* the should last several lifetimes *????* *????*
Some pics of the work so far, The whole lot needs to be on its wheels so the stand stops can be "adjusted" so the stand folds up and down to the correct angles (You can see the weld a PO snotted onto the stand stops *eek*)
John
Hello John, That looks like a good idea. I might go rob some 3/8" steel off my neigbour . I have been looking through the boxes of bits and I have found a center stand complete section someone has cut out a frame . So, maybe a PO has realised and got one from somewhere. Would this one be ok to use? I could possibly cut slug and weld the "New" section into the frame... Thoughts?
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Those lugs are for the later stand, used 1958 on, in my view a better stand altogether.
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Hi Dom,
Would this one be ok to use? I could possibly cut slug and weld the "New" section into the frame... Thoughts?
Well if it was me I would not go down that route *ex*
John
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Which ever route you choose finding a good centre stand remains a significant issue.
Be prepared to pay a good price for a quality item.
Recenly a new old stock 1954 type went for £246 plus £15 postage on E bay.
I recently bought a new old stock ( having already tried a new pattrn one and found it poor quality) late type from USA which cost £130 plus post plus customs duty.
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Which ever route you choose finding a good centre stand remains a significant issue.
Be prepared to pay a good price for a quality item.
Recenly a new old stock 1954 type went for £246 plus £15 postage on E bay.
I recently bought a new old stock ( having already tried a new pattrn one and found it poor quality) late type from USA which cost £130 plus post plus customs duty.
Julian,
I think I may have gotten the sister to your stand. The guy had 2 NOS center stands and I snagged the other one. The other stand I had was a poor reproduction and I could imagine one of the legs snapping or bending. *sad2*
Lee
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Thanks to everyone for their replies. It seems from what everyone is saying that which ever way I go (earlier mount or later one ) that I should go for an original stand. I am always VERY careful lifting bikes on and off stands but I just could not take a chance on a cheaper import. I will hold off modifying the frame until I can either get an earlier correct stand or a later one . Price is somewhat prohibitive but I would rather have the peace of mind
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Hi Dom,
Would this one be ok to use? I could possibly cut slug and weld the "New" section into the frame... Thoughts?
Well if it was me I would not go down that route *ex*
John
Thanks for the reply John, could you tell me why you would not go down that route? . Is it because the welds might give? or because it's a later fitment on an earlier bike? I am fairly competent at welding and have never had a weld break on me.
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Hi Dom,
Reasons???
Its probably harder to find a decent stand of the later type than the early one *????* *ex* *ex*
The later stand lugs are thinner than the early ones and wear even more, the pin and split pin method of pivoting the stand is *** poor *eek*
I had to spend a considerable amount of time sorting my later type Super Rocket frame, I welded in a tube between the mounts and made a "bolt" that locks in the stand so the pivot is now 4 inches wide rather than 2 x 3/16ths lugs
The RGS frames have the same design but the lugs are made from thicker section metal
(Another difference on RGS frames) In spite of that my RGS project frame lugs are FKD *problem* *problem* *work*
As I mentioned earlier Autocycle Engineering in Dudley have decent quality "Gold Star" stands
Same as A10 but without the toe hook
I think they would also be cheaper than MB transits £156 one on ebay *roll* *????* *????*
John
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Hi Dom,
Reasons???
Its probably harder to find a decent stand of the later type than the early one *????* *ex* *ex*
The later stand lugs are thinner than the early ones and wear even more, the pin and split pin method of pivoting the stand is *** poor *eek*
I had to spend a considerable amount of time sorting my later type Super Rocket frame, I welded in a tube between the mounts and made a "bolt" that locks in the stand so the pivot is now 4 inches wide rather than 2 x 3/16ths lugs
The RGS frames have the same design but the lugs are made from thicker section metal
(Another difference on RGS frames) In spite of that my RGS project frame lugs are FKD *problem* *problem* *work*
As I mentioned earlier Autocycle Engineering in Dudley have decent quality "Gold Star" stands
Same as A10 but without the toe hook
I think they would also be cheaper than MB transits £156 one on ebay *roll* *????* *????*
John
Thanks John !
That makes sense..... I think the lugs on the frame just need repositioning . I will go down the proper route and find a "Correct" stand (I hope !) . I will have a look at Autocycle in a min.
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Having spent time and money more than once trying to put together a bike from a pile of parts (and the A10 is not yet complete) I highly recommend staying on the lookout for a more or less complete chassis/parts bike. Though it may seem like a large outlay initially, the cost of many small bits will quickly add up, probably to a lot more. Last one I got ('61 Super Rocket) was $500 and included fenders, stays, headlight, horn, stands, side covers, gas tank, tail light and 2 boxes of bits and pieces. Basically it was everything but engine and transmission. That was less than 2 years ago.
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Having spent time and money more than once trying to put together a bike from a pile of parts (and the A10 is not yet complete) I highly recommend staying on the lookout for a more or less complete chassis/parts bike. Though it may seem like a large outlay initially, the cost of many small bits will quickly add up, probably to a lot more. Last one I got ('61 Super Rocket) was $500 and included fenders, stays, headlight, horn, stands, side covers, gas tank, tail light and 2 boxes of bits and pieces. Basically it was everything but engine and transmission. That was less than 2 years ago.
$500 was a good price ! Here in the U.K you would expect to pay at LEAST 3-4 times the price for such a bike . I know I am doing it the absolute hard way. Literally from the ground up but I think it would be worth it in the end.
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Why not stick with a side stand there are some good after market ones from some well known dealers that you can trust
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Why not stick with a side stand there are some good after market ones from some well known dealers that you can trust
Hello bikerboy, could you recommend a good known product/dealer..problem is that there are so many dealers and so many stands out there..
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The link takes you to burton Bike Bits
https://burtonbikebits.net/stands/
Scroll down to items 70013, 70014 and 70015. You will se that they say they no longer stock these because they break so you know what to avoid.
Some very early CA7 frames do not have the half lug welded to the frame which, if you have one, can complicate the fixing of a prop stand.
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The link takes you to burton Bike Bits
https://burtonbikebits.net/stands/
Scroll down to items 70013, 70014 and 70015. You will se that they say they no longer stock these because they break so you know what to avoid.
Some very early CA7 frames do not have the half lug welded to the frame which, if you have one, can complicate the fixing of a prop stand.
Hello JulianS,
Yes, I don't blame them for removing them. My frame DOES have the half lug welded to the frame. So , I think I will need a "prop"-er one *smile* haha
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Hi gpo, if you cant find one and want to make one you can call and take measurements etc from mine if your ever near Wakefield.
Regards Dave
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Hi gpo, if you cant find one and want to make one you can call and take measurements etc from mine if your ever near Wakefield.
Regards Dave
Thanks Dave !,
It would be good to get an original BUT it might be worth making my own as the originals seem to be very scarce. I don't know if the bike would twist mild steel drawn pipe ...
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IF you go the make you own route and dont mind the slightly different look, then do what I did. Suzuki Bandit leg (correct length) fitted to a piece of scaffold pole cut in calf to fit against the half lug on the frame.
See this link for mine and other solutions https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=9519.msg72657#msg72657 (https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=9519.msg72657#msg72657)
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IF you go the make you own route and dont mind the slightly different look, then do what I did. Suzuki Bandit leg (correct length) fitted to a piece of scaffold pole cut in calf to fit against the half lug on the frame.
See this link for mine and other solutions https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=9519.msg72657#msg72657 (https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=9519.msg72657#msg72657)
Hello Angus,
VERY good idea, I can fabricate as this looks like an option given that the genuine ones are unobtainable. Thanks for sharing the idea and photos..