The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 1946-1950 => Topic started by: Rookie_V#60 on 25.04. 2018 08:27

Title: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 25.04. 2018 08:27
My LS did not even have the kill button when I got it.
Have now installed an ignition switch and a charge indicator LED,
because the ammeter does not indicate exactly.
Cheers Rudy
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 25.04. 2018 09:20
G'day Rudy.
I put a charge light on my A10 Cafe as I don't have an amp gauge, and a toggle switch as an engine cut out.
Hope there's no chance of sparkles that close to your carb.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: trevinoz on 25.04. 2018 22:51
The long stroke had the kill button on the end of the magneto.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 26.04. 2018 12:49
The long stroke had the kill button on the end of the magneto.

Sorry not mine, may be lost in the last 70 years. I first had to install a new cap (with kill button ) for the magneto.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: bsa-bill on 26.04. 2018 16:15
Good useful post Rookie - thanks
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 26.04. 2018 21:21
Yes my 51 A7 had the button on the end cover. Think it got lost in a few house moves.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: PatM20 on 27.04. 2018 06:21
Hi Rookie,

That wiring diagram is for a negative earth bike.

I guess you know that, but thought I would point it out just in case.

Regards

Pat
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 27.04. 2018 12:21
Yes Pat,

it is a 1948  Longstroke A7 .... and they had .....   negative earth !!!  I think BSA switched a little bit  later to pos. earth.

Cheers Rudy
.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 27.04. 2018 17:43

 That's a neat setup Rookie.  Does it light up when the key is turned on, or just when the system is charging/floating or just on ?
  It doesn't appear to be wired to the lights as a reminder that the lights are still on when you shut down (like what I need)...

 I have the same magneto end cover, but removed the button and run a wire to a cut-out switch that is part of the OIF/Conical brake lever block. Not really an 'ignition' switch though is it; engine runs when disconnected and stops when connected ? *conf*

 I'm also running -ve earth, but it doesn't look quite like that....  *eek*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 27.04. 2018 19:55
Hi Dutch,
the switch has an opener and an closer . If you take off the key the opener ist closed and short cut the  magneto. If you put the key in and turn it on the opener "opens"  (no more killing the magneto) and at the same time the closer switch on the LED.
 It has + from the ammeter and - from the D-Terminal of the dynamo.
When the dynamo starts loading the D-Terminal get also + and the LED is dark (off).
That's all,  to see If the ligths are on you can install an other LED via ligth switch.
Cheers Rudy   
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 28.04. 2018 10:02

 Thanks RookaRudy That's about how I figured, but.;
       
Quote
When the dynamo starts loading the D-Terminal get also + and the LED is dark (off).
That's all,  to see If the ligths are on you can install an other LED via ligth switch...   

 That's the bit I was curious about, so when you pull up at idle/low revs, I take it the LED comes on again (due to low generation,cutout cuts out-as they do) ?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 28.04. 2018 18:30
Yes on very low revs the LED comes again,  it is a charge indicator!
 
 
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 28.04. 2018 20:59
Yes it's a balance thing. When the flow (for the want of a better word) from the dynamo exceeds the flow from the battery the light goes out and vice versa.
Remember the old cars at night you'd be watching that dull glow of the red light, hoping to make it home.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 28.04. 2018 23:01

 I think being green was what made me curious, wouldn't red be better?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 29.04. 2018 01:33
mine is red, red means trouble.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Tomcat on 29.04. 2018 05:00
Here's what I've done on my '48 A7.  Original cut out on end of magneto.
Reco standard generator, 12 volt negative earth, electronic reg inside old reg. Gutted an old amp meter and fitted an LED volt gauge inside. Also a hidden switch on the battery negative wire to save the battery when not in use. When I switch on that switch the volt gauge fires up and tells me that the 12v electrics are on, how flat the battery is and after starting the engine that the battery is being re-charged. I also have the same set up on the Super Rocket but with the magneto cut out switch on the 'bars.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 29.04. 2018 07:29
 
Quote
Here's what I've done on my '48 A7.  .............

oh yeah ? I've seen yours- here's mine.. *smile*...I bought a high quality(cheap Jaycar) analogue V meter and temporarily zip-tied it to the whatever cable 5 years ago...still running well... *smile*

 all in fun...I'm interested in this- I recall a couple of threads a while ago where LED's were discussed as charge indication, and in one thread,I think was GB showed off his u-Beaut 'Gizmo'(?) and I went off on a tangent wondering if this or similar concept would work with another LED wired in the other way to show discharge...at that point I think (one of the's ) Trev queried 'what I was trying to achieve' ..... *dunno2*....but now we're making progress.......

   
Quote
mine is red, red means trouble.
    I suggest yours would be on constantly.. *smile*

 I'm still keen to chase up Rookies idea as a way to illuminate the amp meter (which I have done, but only does colours- kinda, work in progress, also discussed and used ~260Ω ? resistors- thanks Chater-John)


Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 29.04. 2018 10:01
Good one duTch.
I admit to have done similar many times. Gee those cable ties are great.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 29.04. 2018 10:03
The little gizmo, (not much larger than a bean) I bought is wired into the speedo light. This is necessary unless you fit a battery switch. My bike has the cowpat around the headlamp and instruments. I've stuck the device, out of sight using BlueTac to the clear plastic on the side of the ammeter. It is an integrated circuit that has a tri-colour LED that shows by red/amber/green the state of charge. If I'm not using the lights I can see from the ammeter if I have charging, in poor light I can see the glow from the LED in the ammeter. I love subtle modernisations like this.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: bsa-bill on 29.04. 2018 12:01
any idea where you purchased said doo dah GB
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 29.04. 2018 13:27

 
Quote
Gee those cable ties are great.
Quote
out of sight using BlueTac to the clear plastic on the side of the ammeter.
 

 I've never bought any of either, but figured out how to undo and reuse zippies, other than that I have a stockpile of unused ones I've found discarded on jobs -can't stand waste *rant*

 
Quote
......... It is an integrated circuit that has a tri-colour LED that shows by red/amber/green the state of charge.........

 I think that was the essence of my previous query...based on Rookies setup, if GB's shows green when charging & red when discharge, it should be....and that's about when brainfart set in.... *pull hair out*

Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 29.04. 2018 13:45
any idea where you purchased said doo dah GB
EBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-LED-Battery-Voltmeter-Charge-monitor-Indicator-Alternator-warning-light-lamp/201338527109?epid=1488730382&hash=item2ee0b61d85:g:URoAAOxyRhBS2H1r

Please note, they work OK on 6v as well. The plastic bezel is removable if not required.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 29.04. 2018 15:03
any idea where you purchased said doo dah GB
EBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-LED-Battery-Voltmeter-Charge-monitor-Indicator-Alternator-warning-light-lamp/201338527109?epid=1488730382&hash=item2ee0b61d85:g:URoAAOxyRhBS2H1r

Please note, they work OK on 6v as well. The plastic bezel is removable if not required.
Where did you put this in the charge wiring circuit ? (Mine is + earth)
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 29.04. 2018 15:13
Where did you put this in the charge wiring circuit ? (Mine is + earth)

Roy, all the info is up there ↑ and on the item Ebay page.  ;)

My bike is 6v + earth.  As I have no way of isolating the feed I just powered the device from the bulb in the speedo*. This means I only see the faint glow in the ammeter if it is dark. If one wanted to see the LED nice and clearly at all times it could be mounted more obviously but you'd need to arrange an off switch to avoid draining the battery.

* The gizmo is only interested in the voltage in the machines wiring. It changes colour depending on its built-in parameters; eg., on my 6v machine: <6v = Red light, >6v = Green light, 6v = yellow light.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: bsa-bill on 29.04. 2018 17:10
Cheers GB, just ordered, will be working on the RGF this year and it's just what I need, (it's 12 volt )
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 29.04. 2018 18:14
I don't think I will be doing this one if it depends on remembering to turn a switch on and off.  *sad2*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 29.04. 2018 18:45
I don't think I will be doing this one if it depends on remembering to turn a switch on and off.  *sad2*
It doesn't on mine; but then, it's only useful when the lights are on.

If you wanted to fit a, (possibly hidden) double pole switch you could use one set of contacts to kill the Mag and the others to turn this device on. I've knocked up a schematic diagram. Anyone see any problems with it?

For clarity; the contact pairs are 1 & 3 and 2 & 4
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 29.04. 2018 20:43
I am hopeless at electrics but, what has the magneto got to do with seeing if the dynamo is charging ?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: chaterlea25 on 29.04. 2018 20:44
Hi All,
Just a notion for one of you guys with spare time to try ?

What about connecting the LED gizmo to the "D" of the voltage regulator ?
This will only show voltage when the engine/ dynamo is charging ??
It may flick on and off during daytime running ?? as the regulator switches on and off ?????
No switch needed *bright idea* LOL

John
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 29.04. 2018 20:48
Hi All,
Just a notion for one of you guys with spare time to try ?

What about connecting the LED gizmo to the "D" of the voltage regulator ?
This will only show voltage when the engine/ dynamo is charging ??
It may flick on and off during daytime running ?? as the regulator switches on and off ?????
No switch needed *bright idea* LOL

John
What wire is that on a DVR2 ?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: chaterlea25 on 29.04. 2018 20:52
Hi Roy,
Its the yellow wire
http://dynamoregulators.com/documents/dvr2-data.pdf

John
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 29.04. 2018 20:58
John beat me to it.
Connect the five leads as follows (and study the wiring diagram): Black lead (Negative Earth) OR Red lead (Positive Earth) to Earth / frame / chassis Green lead to Field Yellow lead to Dynamo Brown lead to Ammeter White lead to Brown lead for 6 V operation White not connected (insulated) for 12 V operation

Good one GB, I've put it in my watch list, I'll need two 6v (XT500 & AG175) and two 12v (51 A7 & CB1100F). The only head scratch is with the A7 converted to 12v through a DVR2. 6v if it goes on the dynamo side or 12v if on the battery side.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 29.04. 2018 21:12
I am hopeless at electrics but, what has the magneto got to do with seeing if the dynamo is charging ?
They are unrelated.
My idea just uses a double pole switch that can control two different circuits. Before you could start the bike you'd have to click the switch to enable the magneto. At the same time the charge indicator would be powered.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 29.04. 2018 23:06
 
Quote
They are unrelated.
My idea just uses a double pole switch that can control two different circuits. Before you could start the bike you'd have to click the switch to enable the magneto. At the same time the charge indicator would be powered.

 Fairly much the same as Rookie has done

 The Gizmo is a nice idea and I considered it, but with the cost of postage to Au added on, decided I'd see what I can bodge up ...
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 30.04. 2018 08:23

A) This will only show voltage when the engine/ dynamo is charging ??
B) It may flick on and off during daytime running ?? as the regulator switches on and off ?????
C) No switch needed *bright idea* LOL
John

A: That was the reason, as my ammeter was spinning.
B: Yes, at low speed, the LED will light up and also if there is too much current.
C: If there is no switch, the LED is always on when you shut down the engine.

Rudy

Here the original and my new wiring diagramm again. Also the LED's
and the keyed switch (universal for Scooter or  Quad) with 2 contacts -1 opener (magneto) and 1 closer (dynamo), so you have 2 functions  with 1 turn.
Sourced via evil bay in China total cost: 5€
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 08:30
As I was going to sleep I realised my circuit has a problem. When the switch is closed the mag is earthed so engine is stopped, but, the charge indicator is powered! I need to arrange to short the mag but cut power to the LED. I'll draw a new circuit idea after breakfast.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 08:35
The Gizmo is a nice idea and I considered it, but with the cost of postage to Au added on, decided I'd see what I can bodge up ...

Muskie seems interested; maybe you could share the UK to AU shipping cost. Any other forum members interested?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: muskrat on 30.04. 2018 09:04
I sent the vendor a ?. How much for 4 + post to AU. See what he says.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 30.04. 2018 09:34

 
Quote
Muskie seems interested; maybe you could share the UK to AU shipping cost. Any other forum members interested?

 yeah ta not really that fussed- I think I have it covered and can live without it, and would still need to add in extra leg and hassle of postage probably only a few$$, but see what vendor says anyway

 What I have done though, to alleviate the stress on lighting I've lashed out $90 on a LED headlight insert ($75+ $9 postage +$5 PPsurchrge *eek*), supposedly draws 1.8A @6V 4-4.5K lumens....I'll keep yea posted on that- just waiting for it to arrive...
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 30.04. 2018 10:47
I am hopeless at electrics but, what has the magneto got to do with seeing if the dynamo is charging ?
They are unrelated.
My idea just uses a double pole switch that can control two different circuits. Before you could start the bike you'd have to click the switch to enable the magneto. At the same time the charge indicator would be powered.
I like this idea, there is no way that you can forget to turn the LED off if you have to flick the switch to stop the engine and visa versa.
Now waiting for your revised diagram. After your Weetabix. *smile*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 30.04. 2018 11:57
On my Ariel Square Four MKII I have a similar installation, but here also an oil pressure indicator ( red as very important and essential for a SQ4). The Ariel has an ignition switch by factory .

For my BSA I'm still searching a position for an oil pressure switch.
Rudy
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 12:12
I am hopeless at electrics but, what has the magneto got to do with seeing if the dynamo is charging ?
They are unrelated.
My idea just uses a double pole switch that can control two different circuits. Before you could start the bike you'd have to click the switch to enable the magneto. At the same time the charge indicator would be powered.
I like this idea, there is no way that you can forget to turn the LED off if you have to flick the switch to stop the engine and visa versa.
Now waiting for your revised diagram. After your Weetabix. *smile*
I made a start but a boring person asked me to go and buy skirting board!
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 12:50
OK, Roy, sorry if the word 'relay' fills you with dread but really it shouldn't. Here is my new improved schematic. When the, (now single pole) switch is 'Off' the relay is unpowered and the Normally Closed, (NC) contacts are earthing the magneto. When the switch is at 'On' the relay is powered, opening the NC contacts, enabling the mag. At the same time the charge indicator is powered. Any thoughts chaps?

Of course the switch could be a keyed one.

Suitable relays are not expensive:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/0366293/
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 30.04. 2018 13:07
OK, Roy, sorry if the word 'relay' fills you with dread but really it shouldn't. Here is my new improved schematic. When the, (now single pole) switch is 'Off' the relay is unpowered and the Normally Closed, (NC) contacts are earthing the magneto. When the switch is at 'On' the relay is powered, opening the NC contacts, enabling the mag. At the same time the charge indicator is powered. Any thoughts chaps?

Of course the switch could be a keyed one.

Suitable relays are not expensive:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/0366293/
Thanks GB. I know what a relay does and I can follow a simple wiring diagram, I just can't design one  *sad2*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 30.04. 2018 13:43
Diagrams printed off, relay and on off switch ordered from RS.  *good3*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 13:45
Diagrams printed off, relay and on off switch ordered from RS.  *good3*

I'm impressed! Please keep us up to date with the project. Are you able to put the relay and switch somewhere out of the rain?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 30.04. 2018 15:49
Diagrams printed off, relay and on off switch ordered from RS.  *good3*

I'm impressed! Please keep us up to date with the project. Are you able to put the relay and switch somewhere out of the rain?

Thinking of putting the relay in the toolbox, and switch, or ignition switch under but level with the seat. I will put the LED by the handlebars. The battery is in the boot of the sidecar.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: chaterlea25 on 30.04. 2018 20:40
Hi,
Rudy, the "D" wire from the dynamo to the regulator only has voltage when the dynamo is charging
none when the engine is stopped.
This is how normal charging lamps work , using the voltage from the dynamo to balance the battery voltage applied to the other side of the lamp, 12v either side of the lamp = no light

Muskie,
The DVR 6-12 conversion reg just regulates the voltage at a higher level, the dynamo voltage will rise to 20v easily on open circuit
So you need another 12 v LED gadget

GB,
Switches with one normally open and one normally closed contacts are readily available
no need for complex relays  *bright idea*

John
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 22:25
GB,
Switches with one normally open and one normally closed contacts are readily available
no need for complex relays  *bright idea*
Double pole but working opposite each other?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: chaterlea25 on 30.04. 2018 22:51
Hi GB
Yup, I would search on RS or Farnell, maybe Maplin if they are still open
It can also be achieved with an industrial latching push button or keyswitch where you can add your chosen contact types
(I'm rusty on this stuff since I packed up the sparky game  *conf2* in 2009)

John
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 30.04. 2018 22:54
Just the job. I'll research those switches tomorrow. Thanks.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 30.04. 2018 23:04

 
Quote
    GB,
    Switches with one normally open and one normally closed contacts are readily available
    no need for complex relays  *bright idea*

Double pole but working opposite each other?

  Possibly something like what Rookie has ?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 06:48
 *conf* Come on lads, I've ordered my switch and relay now.  *sad2*
But if there's a better way, I can order something else.  *conf2*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 08:02
*conf* Come on lads, I've ordered my switch and relay now.  *sad2*
But if there's a better way, I can order something else.  *conf2*
It's always worth waiting a while here to get other people's response before leaping. If there is a suitable switch you may not need the relay. Laters.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 01.05. 2018 08:19
Only look on my replay #34

Cheers Rudy
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 08:27
Only look on my replay #34

...and the keyed switch (universal for Scooter or  Quad) with 2 contacts -1 opener (magneto) and 1 closer (dynamo), so you have 2 functions  with 1 turn.
Sourced via evil bay in China total cost: 5€

Sorry Rudy, I did not understand that first time through. I didn't know such a switch existed. It now makes sense to me. Do you have a link you can paste here?

Do you want a keyed switch RoyC?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 08:55
Only look on my replay #34

...and the keyed switch (universal for Scooter or  Quad) with 2 contacts -1 opener (magneto) and 1 closer (dynamo), so you have 2 functions  with 1 turn.
Sourced via evil bay in China total cost: 5€


Do you want a keyed switch RoyC?

Is that like an ignition switch ?
I want the best way to get a charge LED.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 09:31

Quote
Do you want a keyed switch RoyC?

Is that like an ignition switch ?
I want the best way to get a charge LED.

I guess so Roy. See Rudis photos
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 01.05. 2018 09:36

 
Quote
I want the best way to get a charge LED.

 My charge light is if the headlight doesn't brighten when I rev it, means it ain't a chargin'.... *conf2*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 10:14

 
Quote
I want the best way to get a charge LED.

 My charge light is if the headlight doesn't brighten when I rev it, means it ain't a chargin'.... *conf2*
Is this so even with a fully charged 55ah battery and led headlight bulb?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: duTch on 01.05. 2018 10:27
 
Quote
Is this so even with a fully charged 55ah battery and led headlight bulb?

 Quick Logic test suggests I'd have to say even more so... *conf2*

** But my logic is not always in synch
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 11:04
LED has arrived, just waiting to know what this switch is, *dunno2* and a new diagram from GB  *computer*
I can wire things together, but, I know nout about components or wire gauges.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 11:13
LED has arrived, just waiting to know what this switch is, *dunno2* and a new diagram from GB  *computer*

I've had a quick look at RS but I'm not sure about the correct description. I've asked Rudi to post a link to the one he got. The problem with buying stuff from China or Hong Kong is the shipping time. I'm sure RS or Farnell will have one, albeit more expensive.

I think my first diagram will apply but you will need to attach the contacts to suit, ie. NC. for the mag earth and NO. for the LED device. This means that when the switch is in the 'Off' position the NC. contacts will be earthing the mag and the NO. contacts will disconnect the LED gizmo. Obviously, when the switch is 'On' the reverse will apply.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 11:16
...I know nout about components or wire gauges.

The wire guage is not very important here. The LED will hardly draw any current, likewise the mag earth.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 01.05. 2018 11:36
Sorry for the delay had first to change on eBay.com uk and au be sure you get it:

And yes you has to be patient, shipping is free but need 2-3 weeks until you have it.

Example for the Switch:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Motorcycle-Ignition-Switch-Key-For-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KTM/282642852704?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51382%26meid%3D29987319dff24bcb996947d75a90fbdc%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D391809014334%26itm%3D282642852704&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5a5f99cb-4d2a-11e8-930d-74dbd180e981%7Cparentrq%3A1b3ed8081630a688cee08089ffff64f8%7Ciid%3A1

and the LED's:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8mm-6V-12V-24V-220V-LED-Wasserdicht-Leuchtmelder-Kontrollleuchte-Signalleuchte/391809014334?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51382%26meid%3D6b8fd19e66344153a9bb88ff96bc33b5%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D282642852704%26itm%3D391809014334&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A01fe5eb5-4d2b-11e8-821d-74dbd180b553%7Cparentrq%3A1b4322741630ab6bacfad92fffff5abe%7Ciid%3A1

Cheers Rudy
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 11:45
Like this ?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Motorcycle-Ignition-Key-Switch-For-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KTM/253412848956?epid=933677177&hash=item3b0095353c:g:V7MAAOSwSwVaWelR     

Does this do away with the need for a relay ?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 01.05. 2018 11:48
Exactly the same!
You need no relay the current to mag and LED is very low.
You can easyly check via ohmmeter which of the wire pairs are the opener and the closer.

Rudy
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 12:56
Exactly the same!
You need no relay the current to mag and LED is very low.
You can easyly check via ohmmeter which of the wire pairs are the opener and the closer.

Rudy

Thanks Rudy, I will order that switch.
I know I'me thick when it comes to electrics, but I can't figure out how to work GB's circuit without the relay. As stated before, I can't design a circuit.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 15:25
Does this make sense and would it work ?

Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 01.05. 2018 15:35
Hi Roy,
take GB's diagram from replay #26 .
Cheers Rudy

P.S. Sorry you was quicker than I, yes your circut  ( + earth) works!
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 01.05. 2018 16:04
Hi Roy,
P.S. Sorry you was quicker than I, yes your circut  ( + earth) works!

Great.
A big thanks for all your help.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 20:33
I've been out all day, (my wifes birthday).
Roy, please check that the switch you buy has both NC. contacts and NO. contacts. This means that when the switch is off one pair of contacts will be open while the other pair will be closed.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 01.05. 2018 20:36
Does this make sense and would it work ?

Your diagram is ok. But you need to make sure that the switch does what I described, ie., one circuit closed while the other circuit is open
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: trevinoz on 01.05. 2018 23:13
Instead of connecting the lamp to earth as shown, which will not indicate whether the battery is being charged but only that there is life in the battery.
Connect it to "D" instead as has been suggested previously.
This way the lamp will be illuminated when the generator is not charging and will be out when it is. Just like any conventional system.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 02.05. 2018 07:21
I've been out all day, (my wifes birthday).
Roy, please check that the switch you buy has both NC. contacts and NO. contacts. This means that when the switch is off one pair of contacts will be open while the other pair will be closed.

This is the one I've ordered  -  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Motorcycle-Ignition-Key-Switch-For-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasaki-Suzuki-KTM/253412848956?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 02.05. 2018 09:09
The special charging device discussed is connected between a live feed and earth.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 02.05. 2018 09:11
Instead of connecting the lamp to earth as shown, which will not indicate whether the battery is being charged but only that there is life in the battery.
Connect it to "D" instead as has been suggested previously.
This way the lamp will be illuminated when the generator is not charging and will be out when it is. Just like any conventional system.
TrevinOz, pease will you read up about the special device we've been discussing.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 02.05. 2018 15:02
Got my LED.
Fitting instructions.
For 'Ignition on' operation, connect Black to negative supply, and Red to switched feed from an ignition switch.

Can someone put me clear as to how this will fit into my diagram.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 02.05. 2018 15:20
Is this what they mean ?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 02.05. 2018 15:52
Sorry RoyC, I'm a bit busy to read this at the moment. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. As a quick test just wire the LED device anywhere between a live wire and earth. The seller says you cannot bugger it up by reverse connecting it.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 02.05. 2018 19:08
Got my LED.
Fitting instructions.
For 'Ignition on' operation, connect Black to negative supply, and Red to switched feed from an ignition switch.

Can someone put me clear as to how this will fit into my diagram.

Roy, if you are still struggling.

First off, have you had a play with the LED device to prove that it works? Just holding its wires across the battery live and the frame should give it power. May need to reverse the connections to suit your bikes polarity.

Do you have a way of checking continuity; such as a multimeter or a battery and bulb, (better yet is a buzzer or bell)? First identify the switch contacts; there should be 2 pairs. With the switch turned 'Off', (key out I presume) you should see one pair of contacts are shorted by the switch. Turn the key and those contacts should show open circuit. These contacts are for the mag earth so run a cable to suit that circuit. The other pair of contacts should be open circuit when the switch is at the 'Off' position and shorted when the switch is turned to 'On' position; they are the contacts for the charge indicator.

Using a switch for the mag is more secure than it used to be when thieves would know that they only had to pop the end cap off the mag to overcome the security switch. However, don't trust the switch too much.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 02.05. 2018 19:34
Connected the LED across + - on my spare battery, light works OK.
Just waiting for my ignition switch now.
If the switch works like I hope, my diagram should work.
I will keep you informed on the progress.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 03.05. 2018 13:16
Connected the LED across + - on my spare battery, light works OK.
Just waiting for my ignition switch now.
If the switch works like I hope, my diagram should work.
I will keep you informed on the progress.
Roy, my first diagram applies as well. I didn't realise at first that I'd made a mistake in the switching so then considered using a relay. Notice that I showed 4 contacts; ie. two pairs. I didn't know at the time that you can get a switch that turns one set of contacts off and another set on at the same time. If I can help any more just shout.  *smile*

I was hoping you'd temporarily connect the LED device to your bike to see that it does what it's supposed to do, ie. change colour as the revs change.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 03.05. 2018 13:47
Connected the LED across + - on my spare battery, light works OK.
Just waiting for my ignition switch now.
If the switch works like I hope, my diagram should work.
I will keep you informed on the progress.
I was hoping you'd temporarily connect the LED device to your bike to see that it does what it's supposed to do, ie. change colour as the revs change.
Not yet.
I've been fitting an extended tickler to keep my finger dry.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 03.05. 2018 15:23
Connected the LED across + - on my spare battery, light works OK.
Just waiting for my ignition switch now.
If the switch works like I hope, my diagram should work.
I will keep you informed on the progress.
I was hoping you'd temporarily connect the LED device to your bike to see that it does what it's supposed to do, ie. change colour as the revs change.
Not yet.
I've been fitting an extended tickler to keep my finger dry.
Off topic Roy  *smile*
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 22.05. 2018 12:21
How are the keyed switch projects going?
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 22.05. 2018 17:22
How are the keyed switch projects going?

Just finished it today.
I will take some pictures to show you.
The cut out works great when the key is turned off, when the key is turned on the light comes on, like an ignition light to let me know it is ready to kick it over.  *smile*

A couple of bad pics of the LED and switch brackets I made (all stainless).
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 22.05. 2018 20:09
How are the keyed switch projects going?

Just finished it today.
I will take some pictures to show you.
The cut out works great when the key is turned off, when the key is turned on the light comes on, like an ignition light to let me know it is ready to kick it over.  *smile*

A couple of bad pics of the LED and switch brackets I made (all stainless).
Looks fantastic. I hope the charging indicator does what it is supposed to do, i.e. changes through three colours.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 22.05. 2018 20:28


It's green at the moment.
The battery is fully charged so I don't think it will show any other colour until the battery has discharged a little.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Greybeard on 22.05. 2018 22:26


It's green at the moment.
The battery is fully charged so I don't think it will show any other colour until the battery has discharged a little.
Mine shows a discharge, (red) when turned on, (via the speedo bulb), amber when the engine is running, red when the headlamp is turned on, and moves to green when the revs rise. The thing mirrors what the ammeter is doing.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: RoyC on 23.05. 2018 08:26


It's green at the moment.
The battery is fully charged so I don't think it will show any other colour until the battery has discharged a little.
Mine shows a discharge, (red) when turned on, (via the speedo bulb), amber when the engine is running, red when the headlamp is turned on, and moves to green when the revs rise. The thing mirrors what the ammeter is doing.

Just popped down the garage to have a look, it does change colour from green to orange when the headlight is turned on (LED only draws 25w from a 55Ah battery  http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyWhyNotLEDs.htm  ), I haven't started it up yet to see what happens when running.
Title: Re: Ignition switch and charge light on LS
Post by: Rookie_V#60 on 26.05. 2018 17:59
 *bright idea*

Can not resist,   *eek* *eek*  have invested € 2.36 for a voltmeter in addition to the ammeter and my load indicator LED.
Already at the kick  start, there is a significant increase in the voltage. Not so fine workmansship only fixed with 2 cable ties  *eek*

And even invested in a headlight LED that works really great. *smile*

Cheers Rudy