The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: rowan.bradley on 17.07. 2018 13:46
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My petrol tank is somewhat dented, and the chrome is somewhat rusty.
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Can I attempt to renovate this myself, or is the only sensible plan to have a specialist do it for me? If the former, where are the techniques described? If the latter, which specialist will do the best job at the best price?
Thanks - Rowan
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Rowen,
It depends on what you want out of this bike.
I know my chrome guy would cut the bottom out of that tank with a cutting disc.
Then he would work all the dents out to very close, clean the rust out of the tank.
Then he would tig weld the bottom back into the tank, and pressurize to a couple of pounds to check for leaks.
If it did not leak, the dents would be fixed with lead (instead of plastic body filler) and filed to finished shape.
Then it would be chrome plated, and finally painted.
Very expensive process because it is not only labor intensive, but its also an art.
Second choice, fill the dents with plastic filler and paint the tank without any chrome. This is the cheap option. If you like that look, go that way.
Third option is to buy an Indian tank. These are reproduction tanks that mimic an original closely enough for a very nice rider bike.
You can buy them in plain steel (you have all the finishing done to your own standard), or buy them "pre-finished" in the color you choose.
Be aware plating in India must be done differently than in the rest of the world, and "nicely painted" is an opinion.
Lee
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Rechroming an old dented tank is a one way ticket to the poor house.
So you are left with a painted finish or a replacement tank.
As every man & his dog has a chromed tank, a solid painted one will draw attention to your bike.
Solid colour was always an option, usually reserved for contract build for government agencies
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Rechroming an old dented tank is a one way ticket to the poor house.
So you are left with a painted finish or a replacement tank.
As every man & his dog has a chromed tank, a solid painted one will draw attention to your bike.
Solid colour was always an option, usually reserved for contract build for government agencies
Agree and I used POR15 Topcote gloss black rattle can on mine after brushing on the POR15 primer and rubbing down. Not a professional finish but then nor is the rest of the bike.
Jim
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Rechroming an old dented tank is a one way ticket to the poor house.
But she's worth it!
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Whatever you do, that old chrome will have to be chemically stripped off by a plating company.
I just had a Velocette tank done (cost about A$150) and it's SO clean and rustfree inside and out.
Subsequent work, paint etc, will be on a perfectly prepared surface.
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Whatever you do, that old chrome will have to be chemically stripped off by a plating company.
I just had a Velocette tank done (cost about A$150) and it's SO clean and rustfree inside and out.
Subsequent work, paint etc, will be on a perfectly prepared surface.
We are lucky here in the stripping area. Most chrome platers will do it for free if you are having work done, or for very little otherwise.
I think having a tank stripped would be 30 dollars maybe.
Lee
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Rechroming an old dented tank is a one way ticket to the poor house.
So you are left with a painted finish or a replacement tank.
As every man & his dog has a chromed tank, a solid painted one will draw attention to your bike.
Solid colour was always an option, usually reserved for contract build for government agencies
Here’s my solid painted tank, but I’d rather a chromed one! It would have cost me a fortune to have it due to the number of dents, distorted filler cap and tap mounts, even though the dents were mostly already lead filled before I bought the (baskets case) bike.
Some DO prefer the look, I do, but it ain’t original.
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I had my plunger tank rechromed back in the early 80's. I think it was about $300 (two weeks pay) *eek*
A month later I was turning around in a mates driveway and slipped on the gravel. Yep, dented the tank *problem* *rant* *pull hair out*
Never done again.
Cheers
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Here’s my solid painted tank, but I’d rather a chromed one! It would have cost me a fortune to have it due to the number of dents, distorted filler cap and tap mounts, even though the dents were mostly already lead filled before I bought the (baskets case) bike.
Some DO prefer the look, I do, but it ain’t original.
Original as in what ?
The police over hear had plain black A10's as did a few council rangers.
Nato & UN A10's were plain white ( not a cleaver colour on a Brit bike ).
If you check the catalogues you will find "alternate finishes" , usually at the bottom of the spec pages and A7's & A 10's were always available in the solid colour for that year at a cheaper price.
You need to be careful when looking at period photos because the bikes loaned out to the press were always in the most expensive trim as are all of the factory photos.
However if you look at images taken say at the IOM of spectators bikes you will see quite a few with no chrome.
Only down side was down here on the bum of the world you had to order the cheaper finish and wait for it to come from the factory.
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..............down here on the bum of the world.......
*eek*.....yeah but maybe only where you are Trev- up here in the Sunshine it's quite nice *smile*
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Here’s my solid painted tank, but I’d rather a chromed one! It would have cost me a fortune to have it due to the number of dents, distorted filler cap and tap mounts, even though the dents were mostly already lead filled before I bought the (baskets case) bike.
Some DO prefer the look, I do, but it ain’t original.
Original as in what ?
The police over hear had plain black A10's as did a few council rangers.
Nato & UN A10's were plain white ( not a cleaver colour on a Brit bike ).
If you check the catalogues you will find "alternate finishes" , usually at the bottom of the spec pages and A7's & A 10's were always available in the solid colour for that year at a cheaper price.
You need to be careful when looking at period photos because the bikes loaned out to the press were always in the most expensive trim as are all of the factory photos.
However if you look at images taken say at the IOM of spectators bikes you will see quite a few with no chrome.
Only down side was down here on the bum of the world you had to order the cheaper finish and wait for it to come from the factory.
Good to know, I assumed chrome was standard. My bike was actually originally “polychromatic beige” ....but I don’t particularly like beige (aka gold). Iwhen painting it black I did leave the underside of the triple trees in the original paint though, a future owner might get excited to find that.
I wondered why some period photos had a10s with solid colour, I thought they were just bikes that had been pranged in early life *sad2*
Related vaguely, maybe, I do wonder why there are so many “restored to original” b31/33s with painted tanks, not chromed, I’ve read the Korean War did cause a shortage of chrome/nickel and no chrome tanks (and rims) for a while in the early 50s......but you see bikes restored to “original” with painted tanks much earlier and later than when the shortage occurred *eek*
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My tank had no dinks but some degree of corrosion. It was a non std colour which I wanted to retain so I had that matched by the painter before I sent it away. All in for the strip, prep, chroming and then back for the paint and pin stripes must have been c. £500-600. That was back in around 2002 or so and hurt. But when I have that bike out on the drive and the sun catches it – man that’s worth every penny right there.
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But when I have that bike out on the drive and the sun catches it – man that’s worth every penny right there.
Ditto!
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If only I had my time again!!!!!. *conf* After getting the original tank chromed (A$320), I put it on the shelf for a planned 3 weeks - got busy with work and turned out to be 3 years. When I got it down, it was like a seive, after A$40 to get it stripped to see what the bubbles were.
Over the next two years I got two "Very Good and Chromable" tanks (according to the sellers) sight unseen over the phone (back in 1987-88). Each about A$270. Both were dogs - paintable, but not chromable - one from Melbourne, one from Qld.
I then got an Indian tank unchromed (A$380 in about 1999), had it chromed (A$360 in 2012), then the black and gold lining done (A$360 in 2015 for 2-pack high gloss - the paint was A$300 per litre). Then realised I had not checked the threads for the tank pads and badges - lucky it was OK. Just lucky it is a well-made tank, as I have heard of some roughies.
All up - about including the loss of the original tank - about A$2700 plus all the incidental costs.
Good job I was not doing it for the profit.!! It can be heart-breaking.
Was it worth it?? -- YEAH.!!! *grins* *beer*
Next time, I would borrow the tank, get it checked that it is chromable (wire-wheel off all the paint to check for bog, dents etc), all the threads etc. Otherwise get an Indian tank unchromed and go from there. Better still, look after the one I had in the first place.
Col
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We've had success in home-filling, and -painting - our tanks. I do get them professionally cleaned out (in Acid) - by a local company, called Metal Immersions. On the last job, Jay's D3 Bantam - he also welded up the leaks. After that, however - I filled in the dents, myself. This was with a product called "Newtech, space- age filler. Lots of wet and dry sanding. I use a lacquer paint series they sell, over here - called ColourPak. It's all in spray cans, no breathing apparatus needed. After the primer-surfacer and primer-filler - the saviour was Septone's "Blade Putty". This was for all the minor imperfections, in the surface. You can feel them, better - with your finger. Then about 5 coats of colour, the same with clear-coat. The end product was great. Lots of work, though
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Thanks to everyone for excellent advice. It seems that professional re-chroming is not cost justifiable at present. Therefore I am looking for a more DIY/cheaper way of restoring it that will come as close as possible to a chrome finish but at a substantially lower cost. Has anyone tried this with any of the home electro-plating kits available, or with any of the paint based "chrome" finishes (which mostly seem to use a chemical silver plating technique similar to making a mirror)? E.g.:
- http://chromespray.co.uk
- PChrome system by Peacock Labs https://www.pchrome.com/
- http://spectrachrome.com
- https://www.classic-plating.co.uk/plating-kits/
- Any of the products supplied by Frost Restoration Ltd. https://www.frost.co.uk/paints-coating-plating/automotive-electroplating/electroplating-kits.html, e.g. Brilliant Nickel Plating kit.
Which techniques work best? Which are easiest?
- How similar to genuine chrome plate do they look, in shine, in smoothness, in colour?
- How well do they stand up to British weather?
- How well do they last? What sort of deterioration happens first?
- Can I use non-conductive materials (e.g. epoxy resin) for preparing the surface prior to plating? Can I apply a primer surfacer to get a good flat surface?
- Will petrol spills damage the surface?
- Do I have to take dramatic precautions to protect myself against toxic or caustic materials?
Thanks - Rowan
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If you go for paint, and why not! Try electrolysis to get rid of the rust, works well, washing soda and an old fashioned battery charger will do a great job in a few days but apparently, don't use staiinless for a anode because it makes a nasty toxic solution wot you don't want to put down drains.
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My A10 was a mess when I got it donkeys years ago and the tank had been painted over. I cleared it all off and found it was dented badly where the forks had come around and smashed into it. I found a guy back then who "offered" to fix it back to original form without taking the bottom out. He actually knocked all dents out by working through the filler hole, then gave it back to me to "finish off". I didn't have to do much fortunately to metal finish it off by light filing/rubbing the form he had recreated. I then had it double chromed and painted (still no coachlines though!) and its been wrapped up, sitting on the shelf ever since. I've looked at it a few times since, when we moved house etc, and it seems to have held up ok, I can feel some small pitting but probably no more than my original A7 had back in 1960 something! HOWEVER, I am really concerned about whether its going to leak like a sieve after all these years, especially after reading all the opinions about tank liners, which I guess I had resolved myself to having to use at some point.....I avoided lead filling because I was told in no uncertain terms, that you could not chrome lead!
Definitely go for the chrome IMO, the bike looks sooooooooooo much better *smile*….
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Some platers will plate over lead, some won't.
Before you use it, seal it and put a couple of pounds of air into it and give it a bath.
You'll soon see if it leaks.
Don't put too much pressure into it or you will have a blown out tank.
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Whatever you do, that old chrome will have to be chemically stripped off by a plating company.
I just had a Velocette tank done (cost about A$150) and it's SO clean and rustfree inside and out.
Subsequent work, paint etc, will be on a perfectly prepared surface.
Why do I need to remove the old chrome? Will epoxy filler not stick to it? Can I not prime it with primer then paint over it? The process I was thinking of is:
1. Treat the tank with rust remover. Any recommendations on the best rust remover product to use? POR-15 rust preventive paint? Jenolite rust remover thick liquid?
2. Sand it to remove any loose dirt.
3. Fill the dents with epoxy putty.
4. Sand down the putty to where the surface of the tank would have originally been.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until the surface seems fine.
6. Prime it.
7. Paint it with a 2 part spray paint.
Will this work? Can you suggest any improvements?
I may also try one of the so called chrome effect paints. Have you tried these? Any opinion on which work best?
Thank you - Rowan
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1. Treat the tank with rust remover. Any recommendations on the best rust remover product to use? POR-15 rust preventive paint? Jenolite rust remover thick liquid?
2. Sand it to remove any loose dirt.
3. Fill the dents with epoxy putty.
4. Sand down the putty to where the surface of the tank would have originally been.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until the surface seems fine.
6. Prime it.
7. Paint it with a 2 part spray paint.
Will this work? Can you suggest any improvements?
This is what I did but I got the tank chromed. The painter roughed up the now chromed dent and filled before painting with two-pack. I was happy with the POR15 treatment during the following 12 years that I owned the bike.
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Whatever you do, that old chrome will have to be chemically stripped off by a plating company.
I just had a Velocette tank done (cost about A$150) and it's SO clean and rustfree inside and out.
Subsequent work, paint etc, will be on a perfectly prepared surface.
Why do I need to remove the old chrome? Will epoxy filler not stick to it? Can I not prime it with primer then paint over it? The process I was thinking of is:
1. Treat the tank with rust remover. Any recommendations on the best rust remover product to use? POR-15 rust preventive paint? Jenolite rust remover thick liquid?
2. Sand it to remove any loose dirt.
3. Fill the dents with epoxy putty.
4. Sand down the putty to where the surface of the tank would have originally been.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until the surface seems fine.
6. Prime it.
7. Paint it with a 2 part spray paint.
Will this work? Can you suggest any improvements?
I may also try one of the so called chrome effect paints. Have you tried these? Any opinion on which work best?
Thank you - Rowan
if your tank is really rusty regular white household vinegar will remove the rust you may have to leave it soaking several days but you can re use the vinegar if you strain it through a paint filter and fill the tank again if all the rust isnt gone ....your next problem will be flash rusting you can treat the tank with metal prep [ phosphoric acid solution used in auto body work ] or depending how bad the tank was rusted you may have thin spots in the metal a liner like Caswell may be an option .
My A10 tank was dented I made a tool and tapped them out through the hole in the filler neck with a body work dollie on the outside of the tank.
if the chrome is flaking or damaged it should be removed ,you can paint over it if it is roughed up with a red scotch brite pad then epoxy primer or an etching primer .
the cost to re plate my tank in 2015 was $600.00 Cdn
before painting spray the tank with a light guide coat of black it will show up imperfections [ the guide coat is available in rattle cans from any auto paint supplier .
as far as top coating I use 2 part base clear but you need a good exhaust system and ambient air supplied hood or papr mask the isocyanates in the paints are deadly to your longevity on the green side of the grass .
the chrome paints like Alsa are a system you need to purchase and expensive and at the end of the day still a paint and not as durable or shiny as chrome you may have a body shop in your area that has the system .
good luck
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I'd recommend POR15 based on my experience
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Myself will be having the tank chromed, so much better than paint and is of course a personal preference
I have an original tank, stripped and has rust pits.
Found an original with a huge dent at the front looking like the forks hit it and the chrome has no dents.
And found another original in excellent condition other than a couple of small dents and again not within the chrome area.
All are UK 4 or 5 gallon tanks with pear shaped emblems. Pretty rare in US!
Either way will be having the one I choose rechromed and just a matter of finding a place do to a great job and start saving.
Having it chromed cry once being broke and have it done correctly will be beautiful once done