The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: laneplodder on 09.01. 2019 19:55
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Hi people, I'm brand new to this forum and hopefully someone can shine a little light on this topic:
We have a BSA A7 (1957, swingarm model) in the garage needing full resto. However having had a look at the available rear brake pedals that will fit this frame from this year, doesn't give us a definate answer!
The wheels/parts we have owned over the years are a set of half width hubs, with a solid swingarm pin and swingarm to suit. However located on the driver side frame, close to the pillion footrest is a welded bracket (presumably a rear brake cable mount).
I have heard this year may have had an option of the ariel-alloy hubs, which i think would answer to the bracket on the driver side frame. I have seen a couple of examples of half width brake models which have the goldstar/ B31 style pedal, which appears to fit directly through the tubular frame (please see pics attatched).
I have spent some time viewing a post on this site whereby an A7 owner had used an M20 pedal instead of a goldstar version, but our frame doesn't have this type of fitment typically seen on b31/ a7 models (please see pic below).
I was therefore wondering if anyone knew: a) what is usually mounted on our frame, where the red arrow is pointing to? (is there a pedal that could be used/ adapted here with a fulcrum to suit?) and, b) I wondered if anyone has achieved fitting half width hubs into an A7/A10 frame that has the bracket located on the driver side? p.s. I have spotted only one A7 closely relating to ours - which does have the same frame (bracket on offside), swingarm arm and half width hubs, however the pedal and mounting is unknown- arhh!!
Any advice/ assistance would be greatly appreciated..
Kind Regards,
Matt
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If your frame has number starting EA7 it would originally have had the Ariel type full width hubs.
The photo shows the mounting for A7 A10 rod brake lever. If your frame does not have such a mounting it was not originally made for a rod brake.
Some A65 bikes had the rear brake pedal pivot as per second photo, looks like it is pivoting where the A10 frame has the sidecar bracket.
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Hi JulianS, Many thanks for the information on the brake setup and yes the frame no. is EA7 and doesn't have the mount like your picture has.
Would you know if there is any way in which I could use a suitable BSA lever on the left side to 'mimic' a brake rod setup? Otherwise I believe it would be a case of changing the swingarm to the crossover hollow spindle type..(pic added)
I pressume the hollow swingarm spindle should fit where the solid type does or maybe requires a little boring out? Hopefully, also the front half width hub (threaded leg type) should be similar to accomodate an Ariel hub.. I'm starting to really dislike subtle changes!)
Many thanks..
Matt
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Howdy Matt
Welcome to the forum
I was in the same position and decided to go the Ariel style hub route
It was a long and torturing route but it worked out in the end
In my case the hollow spindle fit fine in place of the solid one
Buying bits and bobs from swap meets and flea bay ended in tears as BSA Ariel hubs and Ariel hubs are not always the same, particularly spacers and spindles
The BSA Ariel style front hub uses a different spindle and different fork sliders to the half width hub set up
S
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Matt,
I and, I think, a couple other members have converted frames for full-width hubs to left-side, rod-pull rype. Requires turning a sleeve that passes through the downtube where the pillion tube meets it. The diameter of the sleeve should be the downtube diameter minus twice the wall thickness. The length should be enough for welding on both sides of the downtube plus the boss extension where the pedal sits. I.D. is to suit pedal spindle/bolt. Your frame flanges are, no doubt, the diameter required for the hollow spindle. So you would just use the hollow spindle.
I have not tried to discuss issues with fitting the half-width hubs versus the Ariel, because I don't know those issues. I, too, am working on a '57 A7 build, but I have the Ariel hubs. The rear hub needs a lot of work, but that's anither story.
Richard L.
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Hi laneplodder...
It depends which way you want to go. Building to suit Ariel full width hubs will require a change of fork sliders, plus a hollow swing arm spindle cross shaft, pedal and cable, plus odds and ends.
If you have decent set of hubs, stick with what you have. The brake pedal you need is part 42 7003 and pivot pin 42 7012. These were used up until 1955. But with no mounting on your frame its a case of fabricating and adapting to suit. Looks like you have access to the precision equipment needed. Using a hollow S/A spindle as a pedal mounting pivot is a nice thought, but means the brake rod front location can never be on the same axis as the S/A pivot. Looks as if the original rod set up is such that the arc of movement of the rod location passes through the axis of the S/A spindle, the best compromise at the time. A left hand cable set up using the S/A hollow spindle to mount the pedal would avoid the change in braking effort as the suspension moves up and down.
Set up properly, half width hubs are considered to perform better than the Ariel type.
Swarfy
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Hi Guys, Many thanks for all your information and advice on this..Great to hear members who have different setups with their bikes and the ways round these issues..
With currently having the half width setup at the mo, I think we'll give that a go and find a suitable pedal to suit - If it comes to it, think I'll try the hollow spindle and 'cross over' style pedal setup..Then if all else fails - Ariel hubs it is!!
Unfortunately the 42 7003 pedal typically fits 'through' the frame tube and ours doesn't have that setup, but the frame could possibly adapted to suit.. *conf*
Next move is getting dates for autojumbles - and plenty of them!!
Many thanks,
Matt
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Hello Matt. Please will you go to Introductions and give us a short Bio, preferably with pictures.
*welcome*
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Hi Greybeard,
Sounds a strange one, but where is the Introduction/ Bio tab located? Is it on personal settings?
Thanks
Matt
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^^^ Hello, 'Introductions, Stories & Pictures' board, a few words there always appreciated as a 1st post (as described in the membership registration agreement).
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With currently having the half width setup at the mo, I think we'll give that a go and find a suitable pedal to suit - If it comes to it, think I'll try the hollow spindle and 'cross over' style pedal setup..Then if all else fails - Ariel hubs it is!!
Matt,
I think there's some confusion here. I'm not sure if I'm the one confused or you, but if you've got the half-width hubs you won't be using the hollow spindle and a crossover pull. I've described how to modify your frame for a left-hand rod pull. Before I modified my frame I got by with my rod-pull pedal mouted at the sidecar mount while using a custom temporary rod.
Richard L
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With currently having the half width setup at the mo, I think we'll give that a go and find a suitable pedal to suit - If it comes to it, think I'll try the hollow spindle and 'cross over' style pedal setup..Then if all else fails - Ariel hubs it is!!
Matt,
I think there's some confusion here. I'm not sure if I'm the one confused or you, but if you've got the half-width hubs you won't be using the hollow spindle and a crossover pull. I've described how to modify your frame for a left-hand rod pull. Before I modified my frame I got by with my rod-pull pedal mouted at the sidecar mount while using a custom temporary rod.
Richard L
...and let me add, using the sidecar mount resulted in an awkword/uncomfortable pedal position.
Richard L.
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Hi RichardL,
Yes we currently have the half width brakes and swingarm as you say- fitted with a solid swingarm pin. But I believe our frame is a slightly later model; and on the driver side located near the pillion footrest welded on is a cable mount. It may be that our swingarm and frame has always been bolted together since our ownership, but originally it may be that our swingarm is older than the frame..
(Sorry for the confusion!) *smiley4*
Thanks again,
Matt
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laneplodder; welcome to a most friendly and informative forum, one of the best in the cosmos. The initiation by the grandmasters is not that painful if one is relaxed. There is no back-stabbing here, it is done in the front if need be, but, it is a rare event. You can ask which oil is best, and is it worth persevering with the knackered old oil pump over the expensive, but quality SRM item as many times as you like without fear.
I would go along with swarfcut's suggestion being as you have the better(?) single sided hubs, along with the fork sliders and swinging arm to suit. It looks like a minor frame/bush jobbie as per Julian S 2nd picture......Good luck.
The apprentice.
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Sorry, read 1st picture.......
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I would go along with Swarfcut's suggestion being as you have the better(?) single sided hubs, along with the fork sliders and swinging arm to suit. It looks like a minor frame/bush jobbie as per Julian S 2nd picture......Good luck.
I go along with modifying the frame to add the pedal boss as per Julian's 2nd picture, wherein the pivot position is a la '54-'55 swingarm frames. Your frame is a '57 (or thereabouts) that the PO decided should have half-width hubs. I can't see going with this part of Swarfy's suggestion:
A left hand cable set up using the S/A hollow spindle to mount the pedal would avoid the change in braking effort as the suspension moves up and down.
It seems just as much work without giving any form of originality, while introducing what some describe as the less definite feel of cable pull versus rod pull. (Swarfy, apologies if I have misunderstood you and you feel obliged to shout "bollocks.")
Richard L.
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...where is the Introduction/ Bio tab located?
Here:
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?board=13.0
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Hi All,
Yes I agree modifying the frame to add the rod type pedal pivot is the way to go,
Check the swingarm pivots suit the smaller solid pin before doing anything
If the pin is the larger size for the crossover shaft, I would use that type of pedal and add a rod pull to it *work*
The most difficult part of it is finding the "Touring " gold star pedal
They are scarce and sought after by ageing Goldie owners *problem*
John
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Hi Richard....No offence taken, no worries.
As I see it, in the short term all options need to be kept open. Butchering the frame takes away the possible original unmolested status, as does adding a pedal pivot support plate. On the face of it swapping the solid S/A solid spindle for a hollow one (Assuming the OD is the same) would allow the use of the bore as a pedal pivot. Then modifying the brake pedal for rod or cable means the bike becomes useable with the option to change back to the original type of full width hubs as and when. The long through shaft will give lots of support, compared to the Slack Alice sideways movement of the pedal, as found on a typical plunger frame.
At the end of the day it is the owner's choice, I just offered my suggestions in the light of my experiences.
OK Matt, decision time.....(maybe)
Swarfy
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G'day Matt.
I'd go along with Swarfy's method. You could use the original brake pedal 42-4347 and add the piece to take the rod or use the arm off the other side (A65 type 68-7020) and put on the pivot shaft outside the pedal to take the rod. The pivot shaft 42-4349 will need something fixed to it the other end.
Cheers
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hi guys,bsargs650 says ( There is no back-stabbing here, it is done in the front ), love it great,cheers
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Hi folks,
Many thanks for all your very sound advice on this subject..particular thanks to Swarfy, RichardL, chaterlea25, muskrat and scotty - too many to list! but thanks again to all..
Hope to be in touch when something is functioning well - with whatever setup it turns out to be! *smile*
Matt
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hi guys, Laneplodder i did the full width brake drums some time ago with the cast iron not ali ones. Bit of a mission but i like them, had to get crossover swing arm tube and spindle plus modify my swing arm by making an anchor for the brake plate to connect to instead of sourcing the correct swing arm. The crossover spindle has splined ends so a splined brake peddle and lever are needed, good luck if that is what you want to do but a bit of work involved, cheers