The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic & Everything Else => Topic started by: RDfella on 03.02. 2019 16:48
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Around 30 yrs ago I asked the guy I used to get my spares from to find me a frame for an engine I was building. Not long after a ’58 GF arrived – bit tatty but complete and a runner – just. Deciding it would be a shame to scrap it, I put it to the back of my shed and got another frame for the project. Not getting any younger, last year I decided it was about time I restored it. How I regret that decision. It has been one problem after another - I should have used it for the project. Here’s a sample: front brake, despite all the usual remedies (including TLS mod) it remains on the dangerous side of adequate. The LH front fork leaks. I’ve rebuilt BSA singles front forks since the mid 60’s and never had a problem, but hey ho, this one won’t behave. I’ve given up trying to seal the thread and now rely on the fact there’s at least one (primitive) shock absorber on the other side. A few weeks ago the battery was flat. Traced the fault to the dynamo. Fitted a new armature and now the charging is off the gauge. I don’t ride at night, so gonna pull the field wire and forget about charging.
Today was sunny and fairly warm, so started the GF ready for a ride. But what’s this – no return to tank. Ran it for several seconds then shut it down. Pulled the timing cover and oil pump and checked the pump on the bench. Works fine and both worm gears are in good order. Put pump back and tried again. No oil return (and next to nothing in sump). At that point, I had difficulty stopping myself from smashing it up. Had the local scrapyard been open (it’s Sunday) I’d have taken it there and asked them to crush it whilst I waited. I’ve had many bikes over the years but this one has been the most unreliable and annoying; and by a considerable margin.
Will make up my mind over the next couple of days what to do with it. At present, either parting it out or dumping the engine and box and fitting something else seem the two best options. Only reason I’ve persevered this long is because so much in the way of parts and time have gone into the restoration.
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Blimey....that's the sum of your problems? I reckon my A7 was a painful resurrection but I'd swap my problems for yours in a Flash!
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Rdfella, I read your post, saw the Union Jack and thought it was wrong, somehow in my mind I had you as a US member.
So I checked your profile , yep UK there too, guess I had it wrong.
Had a chuckle that the computer program here ( based on post numbers?) has you listed as " A's best friend".
The oil pump problem is a weird one, they normally pump something, even when in tough shape . Air lock in feed?
The other problems don't sound very serious, frustrating for sure, but pretty regular old bike issues.
I have a Vincent special that has a nearly new GSXR 600 front fork and noted recently that it is puking oil from one fork, so even the modern stuff isn't totally immune to problems.
Glen
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Post deleted by Author. February 10 2019.
Prompted by a lack of appreciation for sound practical advice.
Swarfy.
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G'day RD.
Ah the joys of getting/keeping a 60 odd year bike on the road. On every smooth highway there is always a pothole or ten!
Sometimes it's best to get someone else to have a look. We all suffer from tunnel vision at some point.
Cheers
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RD, you should sell it immediately. A10s are not for you.
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Feel your pain!
Having something else to destroy ( empty beer can, annoying headlamp that keeps failing at the critical moment, the part that never fitted ((and was never ever going to fit when it was sold to me)), cuddly toy etc) and to hand can save the day.
I follow this up with a good shout and swear, then keep well away for a while.
I can get philosophical about it, after a few hours, with this technique.
Hope oil returns soon.
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Good call Big Jim...
then keep well away for a while.
It's a hobby RDF, if you're not enjoying it, leave it alone for a while. Then you will figure out how to fix these little issues. ;)
Everyone has teething problems after a resto, no matter what they tell you. *eek*
My bikes are going nicely ATM, so this is what I'm doing for entertainment. No new parts are available for it, everything has to be made or pirated from anther car!
Cheers TC
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Had the same thing with a Sunbeam S7D. A dream bike for me, and foolishly I bought one that had just been rebuilt. Now I'd wager I'm not so handy as some folks on here, so eventually after I had been through a huge catalogue of faults, which included having the engine out on the bench for fairly serious work I then handed it over for expert attention.
After all of which the bike was still desperately unreliable, still quite vibey, and it turned out I really didn't even enjoy riding it that much. The last work I did was switching it to wasted spark - after which it would not even run at all.
So it owes me big time and I really, really hate it. So much so that I can't even face switching the coil back over, getting it running and selling it on to claw back whatever I can. It languishes in one of the lower sheds, out of sight. It's been a horrible experience and so I can only sympathise.
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Thanks for the support, fellas.
I learnt a long time ago, whether it's relationships, vehicles or whatever, there comes a time when you have to face the fact you're flogging a dead horse. I have reached that point with this bike. Maybe these continuing problems wouldn't bother me so much if it hadn't been a similar situation throughout the restoration, but I'm not prepared to carry on with a bike that’s going to be a perpetual ‘what’s wrong now’ scenario (and that’s assuming I could solve this latest mystery).
I had that with a Velocette in the mid 60’s. Frame kept breaking where the bottom rail met the downtube, the kickstart was a crappy design that bruised your ankle, but the final straw was the auto adv unit. It had a hole drilled in the taper to locate a spring. Result was if you did it up tight enough not to slip it split – and slipped. The bike went to our local dump.
Then my Triton. I didn’t like the handling, couldn’t ride it at night because the alternator couldn’t keep up with the lights, and got fed up with having to clean the clutch plates every couple of days to prevent the slip which prevented it going over compression fast enough to strike a light. I sold it.
Now the A10. Even more grief than the Velo or Triton. After so much work sorting out wear and tear and others’ bodges, I’d hoped for a reasonably reliable bike - like my other ones, which I just start and ride.
It's a lovely looking bike and the frame handle well, but the engine is more trouble than it’s worth. As an engineer I simply cannot tolerate unreliable machinery.
So, as others have advised, I’m going to keep away from the bike for a while, because otherwise I’m likely to take a lump hammer to it. Indeed, if my mate hadn’t been with me yesterday I would have done just that.
But what to do? I believe there’s another member with a Sunbeam giving him similar grief. Won’t go so you can’t ride it, and can’t sell it either. I’ve discounted the idea of fitting another make of engine, as I’d still have the leaking fork and rubbish brakes. Whatever I decide, this bike will be gone one way or another. And soon. The crusher is looking very inviting.
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RD,
I think my words here will mean little, but what the heck.
When I go out for a ride with friends, or in group rides with others riding modern bikes, I warn about my riding style by telling them I don't have what they would call "brakes."
As for oil return, the one time this happened to me was after the oil lines had been disconnected for a while. Turned out a spider had left its egg sack in the intake fitting.
If you do happen to abandon the A10, I don't suspect you'll be visiting us here, so we will miss your engineering knowledge.
Richard L.
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I just love that bit -"as an engineer-" well I say you are not working on a rocket to take you to the moon its an old brit bike , get a smile *smile* on your face and go through the simple steps, which are very simple and get it sorted instead of throwing the toys out of the pram . if I had your way of thinking I would have had 40years of other bike riding instead of 40 years of I love my bike I hate my bike and sorting out its problems *fight* I take my hat off to greybeard - now he has had problems , you have a little upset *razz*
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Hear, hear! Agree wholeheartedly regarding GB's inspirational tenacity.
Richard L.
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Steady on guys; you'll have me walking on water, (instead of just passing it)
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instead of just passing it
Walking to do so accounts for 99% of my exercise regime *conf*
Yep restoring these old irons can provide many a challenge, exactly what we need to keep geriatric grey matter from taking to many holidays
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Surely "as an engineer" (whatever that particular catch-all term means) you will appreciate that you're working with long-obsolete machinery, and that alone means that the bath-tub diagram is now well into the "tap zone" for this bike?
At least with something as intrinsically simple as an A10 you have a lot of input to the problem solving process and said problems can usually be solved in a basic workshop. Imagine having the same problems with Honda Four of any variety or a Hinckley Bonnie. A nightmare!
BTW do you know if the tip still has that Velo?
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Now and then there are MCs and autos produced that are just full of problems.
History has shown that the A10 is not one of them.
You must have a bike that was bodged by former " engineers"
On top of that, I can safely say that many problems are self inflicted, although it's a hard thing to admit.
When I think of the most difficult problems I've had with old Brit iron, they all fall into one of these three categories-
1. Worn out
2. Bodged by former owner
3. Bodged by me, even though I thought I was doing a great job at the time.
Glen
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If there is one thing certain, there has always been someone there before you, doing things to drive you insane. They can be irritating but forgiving as well, my C11 stopped for no apparent reason, finally found that previous owner, who lives to far away to visit, had left the spacer and circlip out on the cam follower arm , the shaft had worn the housing hole out an extra 3mm before the pushrod jumped out, it had done a lot of kms in that state, with cam followers wandering all over the place, hitting things they shouldnt *eek*
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In case I missed something, the only easy things I can can think of that may stop oil returning is if you've accidentally mixed the hoses from/to the tank, and no supply to return ....or if you have a magnetic sump plug it may e holding the ball down
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In case I missed something, the only easy things I can can think of that may stop oil returning is if you've accidentally mixed the hoses from/to the tank, and no supply to return ....or if you have a magnetic sump plug it may e holding the ball down
....or, the occasional spider egg sack. *spider**lol*
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The oil return problem is usually a stuck ball in the scavenge pipe, but I am sure that you would have eliminated this as the cause, RD.
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Mmmm...RD, if it is any help, I had a wife that was just like that A10, troublesome, unreliable, bitchy and a drain on resources. Even expert counselling did not help. In the end I got a new one and she rides beautifully.....I hear her new lover has unfortunately inherited the very same problems......
Up and at 'em, give it another go after a nice cup of tea, otherwise, it deserves the lump hammer fix...
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Moved the topic, as it's more a philosophical matter :O) than any precise tech discussion.
To OP, regarding how to sort out oil flow etc, please create dedicated topics in the tech boards.
Thanks
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Someone posted previously that A series bikes probably aren’t for me. They could be right. After almost 60 yrs of riding motorcycles, this A10 really got under my skin. I just don’t have the patience to deal with unreliable machinery, so guess I’ll stick with my singles and vee twins. At least I don’t have to spend ten minutes draining the sump before I can ride them, or worry about stopping when I’m on the road.
Regarding my GF, I’m so pi**ed off with it I just want it gone. I’ll get a mate to have a look and see if there’s anything I’ve missed and, if he can fix it, it’s for sale straight away.
I’ve had an interesting time reading the advice from gurus such as Greybeard, Muskrat and others but, about to be A10-less, am not now likely to be returning to the forum.
Ride safe and have fun.
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Adieu. Sorry it didn't work out.
Richard L.
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Just sell it!
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G'day RD.
I'm real sorry to hear you feel this way. In your 18 months here you have been a valued contributor. You don't have to jump ship, even if you dispose of the A10.
I would have imagined that a man of your mechanical grounding would find the odd A10 problem a breeze. But then sometimes we all get over something.
Horses for courses. I enjoy going down to the shed an hour before I go on a ride. Drain the oil, check the tyres, charge the battery etc. Borrowed a mates modern on the weekend and did the same to it. To me it makes the ride more enjoyable knowing the bike is up to it.
I find the hardest thing with my A's is waiting for parts and nothing to do in the shed.
I really hope you find peace with the A10.
Cheers
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Someone posted previously that A series bikes probably aren’t for me. They could be right. After almost 60 yrs of riding motorcycles, this A10 really got under my skin. I just don’t have the patience to deal with unreliable machinery, so guess I’ll stick with my singles and vee twins. At least I don’t have to spend ten minutes draining the sump before I can ride them, or worry about stopping when I’m on the road.
Regarding my GF, I’m so pi**ed off with it I just want it gone. I’ll get a mate to have a look and see if there’s anything I’ve missed and, if he can fix it, it’s for sale straight away.
I’ve had an interesting time reading the advice from gurus such as Greybeard, Muskrat and others but, about to be A10-less, am not now likely to be returning to the forum.
Ride safe and have fun.
In my experience the A10 is not unreliable, neither is my b31. Both wet sump a bit but I don’t have to drain the sumps before riding them, even after weeks of being unridden. I’m an engineer but these bikes only require the skills of a good mechanic to rebuild.
Having said that if I had only one bike, it would be the b31 *fight*
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I guess there are engineers and there are engineers.
I agree with Kiwi, these machines don't need a university degree to maintain them.
I can only comment on my own early experiences with an A10, being an 18 year old apprentice electrician and armed with a set of service sheets and basic tools I managed to strip down and rebuild my Flash and it ran beautifully until the 10.5:1 pistons and 357 cam plus a heavy right hand took their toll.
Back to the shed and start all over again. Change the pistons and fit new (used) barrel and back on the road.
Wet sumping was unknown as the bike was used regularly and the brakes were not too bad, single sided, but all brakes were pretty ordinary then, cars included.
So I would like to wish RD well but I feel that he didn't try hard enough.
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... these machines don't need a university degree to maintain them.
Though, I find it helps in choosing the correct profane expression when frustration sets in.
I'm a motorcycle mechanic of very limited experience (or, a lot of experience on one bike, as seen in my avatar) and she is running beautifully right now. No wet sumping (or so slow as to not matter), charging and sparking on original Lucas serviced by me. I have always been driven to resolve my A10 issues as a personal accomplishment. Taking nothing away from RD's technical knowledge (which is significant), I suspect his already extensive work on various motorcycles means he does not get the same satisfaction from working out problems that I do, and that's just fine. We are who we are, nothing wrong with wanting to move on.
Richard L.
P.S. Apologies, RD, if any of this sounds like two-bit psychoanalysis. My degree is an EE, not a PhD in psychology.
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There's bikes and there's bikes. Some are just going to be a pain in the nuts. Sometimes you really do have to move on.
Good luck with the sale.
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When it boils down, it's as much about mental attitude as mechanical aptitude isn't it.
You need a stubborn streak for sure.
Some have it, some don't.
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Some years ago I got the bike I had always wanted - a 1954 Velocette MSS (don't ask). What a pain that turned out to be. Timing miles out, carburation miles out, dynamo burnt out, petrol tank leaking, clutch fried, gearbox pretty much unusable. It took a lot of blood sweat and tears to finally sort it out, especially the clutch and gearbox. At times I was tempted to put it on eBay but couldn't bring myself to foist it on some other poor sod. So I had to persevere. Now it's a first kick starter and a pleasure to ride. I'm pleased I've got it.
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Yep, I've run my Velocette Clubman for about 40 years. It'll get buried with me*, that's how much I love it.
And YES it's been a pain many times. Nothing REALLY worthwhile in life is easy.
(*Actually I'll pass it on to someone who will cherish it... with luck!)
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I've had my A7 plunger for 38 years. Rebuilt once.
I'll get cremated and the ashes poured into the hole in the backbone. If I can't take it with me I'll go with her.
Cheers
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i laughed out loud when i read your initial post RD. someone finally said it!
my a10 is a keeper but when i first wrecked it it was more a grudge match i wasn't prepared to lose
put it to the back of the shed again? or if there's truly no joy in it then out with the big hammer or down the road!
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Fixed my leaking fork with plumber’s Teflon tape.
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hi guys, Slymo its good for that `PTFE`tape , commonly known as `Plumbers Tape For Emergencies` not used for a permanent seal on plumbing systems, cheers
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maybe its an age thing.
as an old fart it was measuring and metalwork that described engineers not where do i plug my laptop in and what page is the watch with mother flowchart located.
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When I was a lad that would classed as the (very skilled) job of a fitter, whereas engineers had letters after their names and designed aircraft, bridges and space rockets.
Now the bloke who fixes the washing machine is an engineer, the one who lays the carpet in the front room is a fitter and the little Thai bird who sticks on false nails is a technician. *sad2*
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When I was training as an electronics engineer a few years back (I don’t think the term ‘software’ had been invented!) we were always taught that engineers were problem solvers whereas technicians follow a procedure, process or whatever. My problem solving training has served me well ever since no matter whether it be an electronic, electrical, mechanical or even a civil engineering issue that has to be solved.
Old bikes are, in my experience, reliable if put together correctly and, these days, avoiding the many dodgy pattern parts available. Most of the problem solving involves overcoming bodges or hamfisted spannering which have occurred over the many years and miles of service.
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yes, we are no longer called engineers. i m called a train maintainer now and that includes fixing washing machines , repairing lino and carpets and sticking nails where ever the job requires them.
letters after your name in top management but usually apprenticeships on shop floor.
however the new apprenticeships are not craft ones, in my book. the real glory now is changing some electrical box somewhere that logged a fault. wow.
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The word engineer (Latin ingeniator) is derived from the Latin words ingeniare ("to create, generate, contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness").
There are many different specialisms in engineering but all share the same qualities of being able to adapt and think "out of the box" rather than following a set process.
Jim
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I always understood that the word "engineer" stems from "one who looks after engines", and similar to "grenadier" soldiers who specialised in grenades, and bombardier etc etc.
In the US train drivers were termed "engineers" up until recently (and maybe still are).
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Here in Canada an Engineer is someone who has attended University. It's arguably the toughest course load to navigate, more difficult than medicine or business. We have a lot of respect for Engineers, at least until the dam breaks or the floor collapses.
We rely on them to figure out how to build difficult items and we expect those items to perform their tasks, be safe to use and durable. Most of the time they get it right.
Other than that we have the striped hat wearing "Train engineers" with the word "Train" always added to differentiate from a degreed engineer.
My expat UK friends seem to refer to anyone who picks up a tool of any kind as an engineer, so, as with many things, the same word has a different meaning in the different countries.
Glen
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Goung back to RD's original post, if the dyamo was refurbed (or partly) and has a mechanical reg maybe that just needs a bit of a tweak- I did it to mine and made a huge difference and I'm no electrical engineer.....
Regarding the oil no-return; apart from homeless spiders or other critters sheltering from storms, I can't help wondering if there is actually oil in the tank......I assumed there to be, but some obvious things can be easily overlooked.... *dunno*
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it sounded like rd threw in the towel.
the answers to his problems are old ones posted on the forum, but he has to see the wood from the trees when reading them. or seek assistance such as the bsa owners club.
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Hi to all,
I resucitate this post that had stayed in my mind all this time.
I do feel the same as RD fellow about the shortcomings of the A10 ,its probably the most irritating bike of the 60 or so i have owned, sold or restored over the years.
Bought cheap and in very good condition it served me well for 10000 miles or so unti she wet sumped mad and the small end bush got worn out.
I Bit the bullet and because i always considered it as a keeper i brought it to the best A10 specialist in the UK to get the needle bearing conversion and a new pump.
When i got the bike back, (5200 pounds later) i took it for a very wet 30 miles spin around their workshop and noticed straight away that the clutch was slipping like hell and it rattled way louder than when i brought it in, all worn out as she was.
They told me that it would settle down and that they had fitted triumph springs( against my advice as i knew that it would slip with them.)
Any way i took the ferry back to Ireland and upon opening the door of the van a big pool of oil was looking at me on the floor.
None of the engine bolts were tight and it sounded rattly.
Called them and fair play they accepted my grievances and collected the bike for remedial work.
All good so far. I picked up the bike three month later, still a rattler ,still leaking oil and she had lost its oomph...
Checking on the bill i noticed that they had substituted my perfect 356 cam for a flat one again they accepted the problem and took it backto change the cam and said they could not find anything wrong with it ant that, yes there was an intermitent rattle.
Anyway back home and the leaks continued, i have a few vintage and veteran bikes, most of them with engines that i have completly rebuild myself over the years (from guzzi bacon slicer to V-Twin japanese sv) so i tolerate the odd weakness in the bladder department.
Now 2years down the line from the big spend with new everything in the engine i still have an intermittent rattly bike with corresponding rattly front forks despite having rebuild them(myself with new old stock legs ,bushings,seals ,springs and stanchions ...
The engine is leaking mad,from the primary/gearbox seal to the breather hole behind the mag, as well as the rocker box gasket in front on top of the exhaust.
The swing arm silent blocks have a lot of play and were overlooked when engine , gearbox and backwheel were out.
Add a poor set of mag brushes (that they supplied) that wore in no time leaving me stranded at a rally and the next set that i fitted that dug deep in the slip ring destroying it.
The wrong washer behind the dynamo pinion so the pinion could not lock properly on the taper (another van rescue job).
Now , you see, i had a heavy-weight Matchless for 28 years and my friend who bought it use everyday:
i have never taken the clutch of that bike apart nor opened the forks and the AMC gearbox is a delight while the top of the engine is perfecly dry.
I recently bought and fitted a new plunger for the oil pump (a simple job) so was the fitting of new swing arm bronze bushings prior to the sale.
Everything is straight forward with AMC, no blind bush in the gearbox, no whine in third gear,no scraping central stand, no 'they all do that, Sir.'
Now its time to decide between ebay,the sledge or a box of matches.
I have spent over £10000 on a bike thats despite been cosmetically very good and with all the right bits (nacelle, chain enclosure etc) and end up with a bike that is not enjoyable as i never know what is to go wrong next.
My first big bike 42 years ago was an A65 and it was bullet proof.
The blues.
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Flash... I'd say it looks as if you thought you had been dealing with the best in the business, and it is a shame they couldn't have tried just a little bit less. With your wide experience, it is a case of checking and assembling correctly yourself, not relying on people who have the constraints of time and the need to turn a profit to stay in business. If it really is time for goodbye, eBay is the best option, save the hammer and matches.
Swarfy.
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Hi to all,
I resucitate this post that had stayed in my mind all this time.
I do feel the same as RD fellow about the shortcomings of the A10 ,its probably the most irritating bike of the 60 or so i have owned, sold or restored over the years.
Bought cheap and in very good condition it served me well for 10000 miles or so unti she wet sumped mad and the small end bush got worn out.
I Bit the bullet and because i always considered it as a keeper i brought it to the best A10 specialist in the UK to get the needle bearing conversion and a new pump.
When i got the bike back, (5200 pounds later) i took it for a very wet 30 miles spin around their workshop and noticed straight away that the clutch was slipping like hell and it rattled way louder than when i brought it in, all worn out as she was.
They told me that it would settle down and that they had fitted triumph springs( against my advice as i knew that it would slip with them.)
Any way i took the ferry back to Ireland and upon opening the door of the van a big pool of oil was looking at me on the floor.
None of the engine bolts were tight and it sounded rattly.
Called them and fair play they accepted my grievances and collected the bike for remedial work.
All good so far. I picked up the bike three month later, still a rattler ,still leaking oil and she had lost its oomph...
Checking on the bill i noticed that they had substituted my perfect 356 cam for a flat one again they accepted the problem and took it backto change the cam and said they could not find anything wrong with it ant that, yes there was an intermitent rattle.
Anyway back home and the leaks continued, i have a few vintage and veteran bikes, most of them with engines that i have completly rebuild myself over the years (from guzzi bacon slicer to V-Twin japanese sv) so i tolerate the odd weakness in the bladder department.
Now 2years down the line from the big spend with new everything in the engine i still have an intermittent rattly bike with corresponding rattly front forks despite having rebuild them(myself with new old stock legs ,bushings,seals ,springs and stanchions ...
The engine is leaking mad,from the primary/gearbox seal to the breather hole behind the mag, as well as the rocker box gasket in front on top of the exhaust.
The swing arm silent blocks have a lot of play and were overlooked when engine , gearbox and backwheel were out.
Add a poor set of mag brushes (that they supplied) that wore in no time leaving me stranded at a rally and the next set that i fitted that dug deep in the slip ring destroying it.
The wrong washer behind the dynamo pinion so the pinion could not lock properly on the taper (another van rescue job).
Now , you see, i had a heavy-weight Matchless for 28 years and my friend who bought it use everyday:
i have never taken the clutch of that bike apart nor opened the forks and the AMC gearbox is a delight while the top of the engine is perfecly dry.
I recently bought and fitted a new plunger for the oil pump (a simple job) so was the fitting of new swing arm bronze bushings prior to the sale.
Everything is straight forward with AMC, no blind bush in the gearbox, no whine in third gear,no scraping central stand, no 'they all do that, Sir.'
Now its time to decide between ebay,the sledge or a box of matches.
I have spent over £10000 on a bike thats despite been cosmetically very good and with all the right bits (nacelle, chain enclosure etc) and end up with a bike that is not enjoyable as i never know what is to go wrong next.
My first big bike 42 years ago was an A65 and it was bullet proof.
The blues.
Sorry the work on your bike didn't make the cut....
Was a ticketed Renault mechanic a lifetime ago so I have some sense of this and that. Father was a toolmaker so precision this precision that as well...Clever guy built a designed wooden yacht from plans..etc. Anyway I digress.
I've just spent a few days watching as many Tube vids of "professionally restored/fixed" old twins as I can and the one thing I have taken away from it is they all rattle and clank in the most unpleasant, un-factory like way.
Whacking a few bearings in and a grind or two topped off with a glob of two pack does for my money not make a restored bike.
For that sort of cash I would expect every single moving part measured and blued with running parts hand fettled with the appropriate reamers/jigs to clearance tolerances. Worn parts built up, re-ground or sleeved....Sorry this is turning into a rant but I just feel the whole commercial restoring game almost needs some sort of regulation to stop this sort of thing.
And finally. Leaks?...Whilst I do have a nasty rattle that needs sorting my A7 does not leak a drop.....its basic mechanic-ing.... So for ur bike to come out of a pro shop with loose bolts and extra leaks is....well, best I stop before I say something I regret.
Rant over...deep breath, smile. :!
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"i brought it to the best A10 specialist in the UK ". Once again a dire report. Our A10 holds oil and goes well. No expensive roller bearing conversions etc, just attention by an amateur mechanic (me) and crucially keeping things pretty standard. These bikes were sound machines when new but nowadays are only as good as the last rebuild. It's too easy to spend a heap of money on solutions that are looking for a problem.
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Back in the day these bikes were thrashed mercilessly by hard-up kids. Many of the bikes were bought when they were in the autumn of their lives so you would expect them to be unreliable and rattly. If my memory serves me correctly they just kept going.... and going! My mate used to thrash is A10 along the Chester to Manchester road every day, a round trip of about 65 miles and he went as fast as he could everywhere! Yet his bike and many other thrashed and abused bikes kept going and sounded OK. Even though the A10 and most other British bikes have their faults they were, in the main, decent bikes, particularly if treated with respect. In my opinion BSA didn't get the credit they deserved. I don't know many people who can significantly improve an A10 from its original spec. Many people have tried but the outcome is often disappointing. The A10 was a good all-round well balanced bike. The best ones I've had were very much original spec iron head jobs - I still have one which is my 1958 Golden Flash which I restored about 15 years ago and it rides beautifully, but I don't take it over 60 m.p.h. Speaking from experience I have come to the conclusion that nearly everything you can buy that is not original BSA makes the bike worse! There are exceptions and the following posts will, no doubt, refer to them! The more you fiddle and fettle the worse the bike gets. Pattern parts are a curse as they are rarely the same as the originals and the slightest variations seem to matter. When I restored my 1958 Golden Flash I stripped it down and rebuilt it, almost entirely with the parts I'd removed. OK, some things are unavoidable, like valve guides for instance. I think these old bikes have a 'harmony' and as soon as you start swapping bits the harmony is lost. A mate of mine sent his A65 engine to a well known firm for an assessment and they suggested it needed about £3000 spending on it because they wouldn't tolerate any wear on anything. I have heaps of A10 stuff and a while ago I said to a mate, "there's no point having all this stuff unless I'm going to use it" so a couple of years ago I built a single seat A10 almost entirely from original stuff. Basically I hunted around the shed and garage finding the best second hand parts I could lay my hands on and built the bike, then after a few shakedown runs, rode it over 1000 miles to the Assen MotoGP and back without any hint of a problem. I confess to having a Mikuni carb on this bike but in most other respects it is a fairly standard A10. BSA did a bl**dy good job when they turned out the first A10 in 1950 and improving on it has proved difficult. One example of things that can go wrong..... New valve seats - are they at the same depth as the originals, because if they're not the springs will be under different tension and the push rod geometry and leverage will be different - add to this pattern valve springs which may or may not be the same strength as the originals and pattern cam followers which may be a fraction shorter or longer than the originals you have a whole set of issues which can turn a quiet bike into something which sounds quite horrible. ( I wrote this whilst Blacksheep was typing his post, seems like we're on the same wavelength!)
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well after reading all that flash I would be taking it apart and re building the lot myself, but then again I wouldn't trust others building any engine of mine. I would let the skilled engineers do the work they are qualified in and then stick it together complete without oil leaks. sounds like you need serious words with them, that's a lot of money for no result. I had problems with inferior parts a famous firm sold me and I got the impression as with most things nowadays they want your money and that's all that matters ...the gearbox leak is either running down between shaft and bush or as mine was through the ball race and down the inside of the seal and circlip groove. edit beezermacc so true with everything that is not bsa original makes the bike worse, on the nail there.
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Seems we're all singing from the same sheet.
As an eg . I've just very carefully put my clinically cleaned rocker box back together. I had a box of shafts and rockers and spent hours mating the "best to the best"..if you can call them that, then lapping in the push rods etc , but they're all worn which will clearly contribute to the noise and new parts are unobtainum.
I may get the shafts flame coated and ground I may not, which would still only be a half measure...But its an easy job to get the box off if I feel it needs doing at a later date.
But its a totally different thing to be throwing down thousands to a guy in a shop who says he's gonna make ur bike like new again but does nout to parts which are worn and rattly just because it'll eat into his bottom line...Nothing worse than a shiny bike that sounds like a bag of nails.
I've just re -read the post. To change a cam is a full strip....Really, they took it back and did a second full strip?...mmm
And I think ur dead right Beezermac re harmony. These engines were designed by pretty clever designers using tried and tested parameters..measurements, fits etc and soon as we start fitting pattern stuff that all goes to pot. How many examples of cheese soft followers have we all suffered for instance.
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Harmony is the name of the game allright, i have seen many shagged bikes where everything wore in unison until they finally ground to a halt.
My old faithfull guzzi T5 is one of them with 120.000 km on the clock the heads were never off and the clutch was done at 75000 all electrics are original and everything works.
Harmony is also the strong point of this brilliant forum, thanks to all for your words if wisdom and encouragement.
i misled the sledge and the bloody matches are wet , ebay's the last hurdle...?
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In a funny way I think the "restoration" game has a lot to answer for.
When I lived at home decades ago an elderly chap up the road ran a mid fifties A7SS which was dead original but tatty and ran sweet as a nut....in other words the engine was fine, frame just needed a tidy up. Would love a bike like that now.
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G'day Flash G
You made the comment...
'They told me that it would settle down and that they had fitted triumph springs( against my advice as i knew that it would slip with them.'
I have an *** 4 spring clutch and it also slips (but has very light action) could you suggest some stronger springs to go in place of the light set, please.
Cheers TC
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New valve seats - are they at the same depth as the originals, because if they're not the springs will be under different tension and the push rod geometry and leverage will be different - add to this pattern valve springs which may or may not be the same strength as the originals and pattern cam followers which may be a fraction shorter or longer than the originals you have a whole set of issues which can turn a quiet bike into something which sounds quite horrible. ( I wrote this whilst Blacksheep was typing his post, seems like we're on the same wavelength!)
My goodness this site is gold and you guys r brilliant.
I've just noticed one of my inlet seats is lower than the rest... and I have this awful rattle plus pattern springs which I've always thght seem heavy...then I've got pattern followers, camshaft, worn rocker gear....christ the list goes on endlessly...where to start?
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First time I had mine back together with any amount of 'new' bits it wasn't so great and could still wet sump on a cold afternoon. That lasted just 250 miles before it seized solid. At which point I was pretty much all in, and took it to Roger at Cake Street. He went through it in little more than a week and found any number of bushes and bearings and bits that weren't quite right. Probably almost a case of his going through and blue printing to some extent.
Bike was transformed, it's been an absolute delight ever since.
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Hi to all,
Well Lads, the sledge is still missing, i know i have it ...but i have it lost.
After an enormous amount of brain racking involving one of the brightest A10 gurus (who just happens to hail from Cork )
Here is where the cookie crumbled;
From the day the bike came out of the expensive specialist, it ***** oil throuvb the breathing hole under the mag.
After 2 return journeys to the specialist it still ***** with up to 400 ml of oil in the sump after a ride.
- compression measured good, oil filter by-passed, oiling to the rockers temporary by- passed too by returning directly from pump to tank.
Still the same with a rate of dropping from the breather at 2 drops per second!
And then we found the culprit:
The modified timing cover fitted when the needle bearing conversion waa done was not welded properly at all,at all,at all...
So the pressure from the pump, instead of going through (the very amateurishly pressed) seal to the crank was just going to the sump as well as being splashed up by the gears into the breather.the new shiny blue pump could not keep up with scavenging.
Chaterlea25, our Cork guru, had another modified cover showing an impeccable weld and a squared and flushed seal.
Substitution and BINGO no more oiling after nearly 3years of head scratching.
I went for a Long spin today to a friend who has an immaculate stone paved dryway, he ran for a bit of cardboard to lay under the bike when i arrived and an hour later there was 2 drops under the gearbox.
The culprit cover has been returned to the specialist and we are waiting for their verdict.
Besides this the engine is very strong and pulls very well ,a few more snags to sort and i might fall in love again.
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nice one flash, i love a happy ending!
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Hi All
Thanks for the "thanks" *smile*
The other problem I found with the monobloc carb is one I have never come across before
(until I looked for another better one at home *ex*)
The bike was behaving badly and hard to start, all other reasons had been gone through several times over
The idle screw did not seem to make much difference in spite of checking all the tiny passages several times
I decided to remove the jet block as it was the only thing left to check ,
When I upturned the carb the jet block fell out *eek*
The conclusion I came to is that air was being drawn in and around the base of the jetblock causing a weak mixture
We borrowed a monobloc from another bike and stuck that on , and the A10 started first prod on the kickstart
I had several 376 mono carbs at home, and tried mix and match to find out the reason why the jetblock was loose
For some reason the carb body bore was to blame, I found two more with the same issue to a lesser degree
they are now in the bin *razz*
John
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So was it wear, or bad manufacture?
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Yes, a couple of happy endings. Always a good feeling when an actual cause is found. The evidence was there all the time, but some problems just escape diagnosis and digging it out to the basic parts is the only answer.
Even then you can be fooled if you have no experience of what is correct and within parameters, and what's not.
Swarfy.
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Hi GB,
As there is no relative movement between the body and jet block, wear cannot be an issue,
I wonder if the mazac "grows" with age???
John
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I believe it does, John. I've had to ream the spindle bore of oil pumps because the body has shrunk and become a press fit on the shaft. Aluminium apparently did that during WW2 as well, when pistons put into storage were sometimes allegedly bigger when retrieved than when made.
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Mazak does grow with age, as any restorer of a long-unused BSA will attest when he starts reconditioning the oil pump.
Apparently made worse if old oil is left in the engine for a period of time.
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Hi All,
Usually you can see "blisters" on old mazac that has swollen,
The carb parts look fine in that respect,
Usually the carbs needs a dose of heat to remove the jet block
It was a first for me, after nearly half a century of playing around with old Amals and BSA's
(I did start at an early age though *lol*)
As for old piston growing with age??
Recently I got some NOS J.A.P pistons
If bored to the std plus oversize marked on them, they would have 12 thou clearance *conf2*
John
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Found this thread while searching "Wales" Dunno how I ended up here but it makes interesting reading for those inclined to see how some simple statements wander. I'm as guilty as the rest of the contributors, and apologies in advance to all participants......
Laugh and learn, count your blessings.
Swarfy.
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The bike was behaving badly and hard to start, all other reasons had been gone through several times over
The idle screw did not seem to make much difference in spite of checking all the tiny passages several times
I decided to remove the jet block as it was the only thing left to check ,
When I upturned the carb the jet block fell out *eek*
The conclusion I came to is that air was being drawn in and around the base of the jetblock causing a weak mixture
Interesting. I'm currently going through a similar scenario with a 389 on a Venom, and although the jet block isn't so loose as to fall out it can be pushed up and out with a screwdriver through the bottom. Something else to consider.
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G'day Fellas.
The most irritating bike I owned was my first NEW bike. At the age of 10 or 11 I bought a Tas Tora 60cc for $160. It was fully road registerable with lights and blinkers. Very similar to the Bridgestone. It had a rotary gearbox *eek* meaning from neutral it was down to 1st, down to 2nd, down to 3rd, down to 4th, down to neutral, down to 1st and so on. A few times I thought I had another gear so went down only to find what I thought was a false neutral and went down again only to go over the handlebars *countdown*
Cheers