The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: AdrianJ on 30.04. 2019 08:19
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I have realised that my tool box is (I think) off a rigid frame, though it could be s/a.
There are some plunger B31/33 tool boxes from India advertised on eBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-B31B33-PLUNGER-MODEL-TOOL-BOX-RAW-STEEL-BRAND-NEW-REPRODUCTION/401473507521?hash=item5d79af90c1:g:mAMAAOSwW09aVKzU
Looking in the the parts book some of the boxes share a part number between B series and A Series.
Does anyone know (or guess) from looking at the picture if this toolbox is also the correct fitment for a plunger A10?
Thanks in advance,
Adrian.
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Adrian, It all depends if you just want a toolbox, or the right one for the year. Like all businesses, survival is the aim, and BSA would use up what they had from previous model years so there is evidence that rigid style triangular toolboxes were used on the early plunger frames. Once introduced, the larger basic plunger toolbox profile then remained the same, but I have come across boxes with an essentially flat lid, as on early S/A models, and the more widely found slightly domed lid with less angular edge. This could account for the differing part numbers.
65 9080...A7/A10 Rigid Type, Fitted up to 1953, so can be found on Plunger Frames. Triangular profile to fit snugly into rigid chainstay aperture. Leaves a gap underneath when fitted to a plunger frame.
67 9007... A7/Star Twin, Spring (Plunger) Frame fitted until 1951.
67 9002...A7/A10 all models, 1951 onwards. Larger toolbox to fit completely into the plunger chainstay profile.
An original Plunger Toolbox will have a horizontal metal strip just above the lower edge, parallel to the hinge, to stop the tool roll falling out when vibration opens the lid at that inconvenient moment. As far as I know this is absent on a S/A toolbox, but I could be wrong. This may help identify what toolbox you have. Plunger toolbox also has two bolt holes to attach to the mudguard, plus a locating hole for the frame tube clip. S/A toolbox has completely different mountings, so look for evidence of their removal. Even so, the S/A Toolbox would be awkward to adapt, and the fitting of one is unlikely.
There are two holes to mount the toolbox on an original rear hinged type mudguard, bottom hole just above the lower frame chainstay.
Roy Bacon's Twin restoration book shows the confusion. Page 13 shows a 1951 A10 Plunger with a triangular rigid frame type toolbox, and a 1950 A10 which appears to have the larger, more common toolbox, with the rounded top profile.
The eBay one would do, looks OK even down to the tool roll strip, but like all parts sourced this way, quality may be an issue. If you decide on this product, choose a UK based seller. I don't like the uncertainty of hidden import costs.
Swarfy.
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G'day Adrian.
My 51 A7 plunger has the earlier rigid type from new (click on link below Muskys A7). As Swarfy said it was fitted up till 53. So if a rivet counter says anything send him here. :P
Cheers
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Muskrat and Swarfy.
That's really useful thanks.
Tying the actual shape (domed or not) to the part numbers helps a lot.
I'm fairly sure now that I have a rigid type box and, as Swarfy says it was fitted right up to 53, I'm going to try refitting that first rather than getting involved with importing. It was the gap under it that worried me when I tried fitting it. Sourcing one in the UK doesn't seem to be an option.
Not really worried about rivet counters, I'm aiming for a nice fairly original rideable bike.
Regards,
Adrian.
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Hi Adrian
I have the original toolbox off my 1954 plunger A10 if you would like any measurements, photographs, etc. I'll be bolting it back on the bike next month!
Simon
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This is mine, a 1955 machine.
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Thanks Simon, I'll see what my rigid one looks like when it's back on.
If it looks too small I'll get on of the Indian ones - they don't give dimensions, but i'm sure they'll fit.
I think they are the same shape as Greybeard's.
It looks like mine could have been either style originally in 53, so I hope the rigid style one looks OK.
Not to mention the fact that I've filled and painted it and put the transfer on already before I realised it may not be correct *smile*.
Regards,
Adrian
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This picture shows the earlier toolbox
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A very similar discussion from 2012:
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=5225.0
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Yes - that's the box I've got.
I think i'll try and fit it anyway.
Sorry - should have checked previous posts.
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Here's mine, (I hope) looking very shiny after quite a lot of work on it...
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A very nice job.
This is the box that I have ready to go on.
Adrian
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I would have thought someone with an early machine would love to have that box
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If I replace it, I'll make sure someone who wants it gets it.
Adrian
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This picture shows the earlier toolbox
This is because that is not a photo of a production bike.
It is a preproduction publicity photo hand made for the photo session.
They had to make do with what was available which in this case was a rigid tool box.
You need to go to period publications and even then the bike in the photograph could be a pre production publicity special for loan to the motorcycle press.
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G'day Adrian.
Something bug'd me about your tool box. Mine doesn't have the lug/ear at the bottom like yours.
Now I'll have to investigate!
Cheers
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Hi Musky,
I must admit I was curious about the lug. When I got the bike, the lug was fastened to the bottom frame tube with a home made strap and a p-clip, probably the one which should have fastened the tool box to the top frame tube.
Isn't the internal strip across the toolbox missing as well?
Regards,
Adrian
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So, are you saying that production Plunger models did not use the early toolbox?
If not, that picture could explain the fact that restored bikes sometimes have the early box.
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I bought a box at a swap meet a few years back and always figured it's original from a rigid model... based at the time on images of Plunger models I saw.
I prefer the shape of it to the Plunger ones anyway , and the shape and length suited me better because of the need to jam the battery in there, but wasn't wide enough, so used it as a template to make a 'fatter' one... *work*.... got the back done and that's good enough to ride it (6 years ago).... work in progress.... *smile*..
** I reckon a battery enclosed in there would trust it out anyway
* edit ; it doesn't have that lug either- wondered about that *conf2*
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So, are you saying that production Plunger models did not use the early toolbox?
If not, that picture could explain the fact that restored bikes sometimes have the early box.
The literature for new models was printed substantially before the bikes were made.
If there was no "new" tinwear available by the deadline for the photography then they used what they could get their hands on.
A catalogue image is not & never has been a definative answer as to what the bike looked like at the despatch dock.
Look at all of the catalogue images that show B50's with ivory frames.
There were 12 and only 12 press bikes made with ivory frames, all of the production bikes were black.
Similar with the twins.
They started off being ivory but reverted to black before the season ended but you will not find a catalogue showing them black framed.
People with no idea of what a bike actually looked like get a photocopy of the catalogue & build that bike because they are too lazy to do proper research.
Remember all the who har about rocket tank colours.
Now if an owner made the effort to get an extract from the dispatch books it would state exactly what the finish was but dozens right here swore on a stack of parts books they were all red.
Now BSA being BSA would not have fitted the old tool boxes, if the new ones were available, but if the only ones on hand were rigid boxes then the plungers got rigid boxes.
This was particularly the case with export bikes as BSA bought the space on the ships well in advance which even today comes at a substantial discount.
SO if they needed 300 plunger A 10's to fill the space that is what got loaded, right parts or wrong parts.
Now as it happens Ken , one of our club members bought his 1950 A 10 off the catalogue before they left the factory.
As far as we know he had the very first plunger A 10 registered in Australia as the ship off loaded 10 in Sydney before it off loaded 12 in Melbourne, so we got ours a week before Melbourne did.
Kens bike has the bigger plunger box fitted so it was not a case of use up the old stock first.
This is why I get so annoyed about "know all know nothings" like the AMCA issuing "value increasing authenticity certificates" without having the proper documentation to support their certificates .
Now if they certified you bike as being identical to the 19xx catalogue image that would be fine but the a-holes state that your bike is AUTHENTIC when in the case of many BSA's it is nothing like that.
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Adrian's Triangular Toolbox has a rather nice reinforcing bar, looks a bit modern. Almost convinced myself it came off an Enfield Bullet.
Swarfy.
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Adrian's Triangular Toolbox has a rather nice reinforcing bar, looks a bit modern. Almost convinced myself it came off an Enfield Bullet.
Swarfy.
LIke this?
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GB No, that bar stops the tool roll falling out at the odd inconvenient moment when the 58% balance factor shakes the toolbox lid open. I meant that nicely shaped flat strip to reinforce the mounting holes.
Your toolbox is luxury... Looks like deep pile carpet for the spanners' repose. Alas, that bottom is a common rust spot, as that's where the moisture collects and in production an area where paint was invariably a bit thin.
Names for bikes? With a reg. like yours it has to be Emily.
Someone was asking about a trusted restorer in the UK, North East Area. At the other end of the scale up there is an eBay seller who seems to have a perpetual (never ending) stream of tasty (and expensive) stuff, I just wonder where it keeps coming from.
Have fun come the weekend, hope the present damp spell ends pronto.
Swarfy.
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GB No, that bar stops the tool roll falling out at the odd inconvenient moment when the 58% balance factor shakes the toolbox lid open. I meant that nicely shaped flat strip to reinforce the mounting holes.
Ah, I see.
Your toolbox is luxury... Looks like deep pile carpet for the spanners' repose. Alas, that bottom is a common rust spot, as that's where the moisture collects and in production an area where paint was invariably a bit thin.
It's dense foam. The tools are in a bag as well.
Names for bikes? With a reg. like yours it has to be Emily.
Indeed.
Have fun come the weekend, hope the present damp spell ends pronto.
Thanks fella *smile*
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Can't find one in the UK so I have just ordered a raw steel Indian one (B31/33)
I will let you all know how I get on.
Not expecting it for a month.
Adrian.