The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Introductions, Stories, Meetings & Pictures => Topic started by: roys51a10 on 25.08. 2019 23:08

Title: Custodian of an A10
Post by: roys51a10 on 25.08. 2019 23:08
Hi,my father bought an A10 Golden Flash brand new in 1951 that was used until mid 1960's when life got in the way and it was parked up in his garage.Many attempts over the years to get him to resurrect it failed.Sadly he died Dec 2017 aged 92.So the task of resurrecting it will begin.It's surprisingly rust free, most of the chrome has fallen off.But no rust in tanks or engine.I'm hoping to use it as it is, strip it down and replace only necessary parts.We found some pictures of him on it,and took one as we found it.Hope to update as i go and use the very useful knowledge on here to help.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 25.08. 2019 23:17
Fantastic project. Will you be able to do much of the work yourself?
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: WozzA on 26.08. 2019 00:01
Welcome to the forum... Great looking bike, your in the right place for information to get her back up & running..  Looks like your dad had you in mind with a couple of machines stored away for your retirement project..    *loveit*   *yeah*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Joolstacho on 26.08. 2019 00:18
Now there's a family heirloom worth having. Great - for your dad's memory.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: scotty on 26.08. 2019 02:32
Welcome Roy

Great history and wonderful project

S
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: a10 gf on 26.08. 2019 07:42
Thanks for intro, great story and pictures. Welcome aboard.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: BigJim on 26.08. 2019 10:56
Welcome to a great place for advice and support. My Dad lives on through me. Which way do you think you'll go resto wise. Full nut and bolt rebuild and better than factory finish or wipe with oily rag and put some fresh petrol in. As GB always says "no need to worry about the sludge trap".
 *welcome* *fight* *bright idea*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 26.08. 2019 11:25
As GB always says "no need to worry about the sludge trap".
Don't listen to him!
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Swarfcut on 26.08. 2019 12:49
 Here is my take on your bike. You are indeed fortunate to have an original and hopefully unmolested machine with a known history. Its present condition is the result of the various stages of initial care, daily use and finally discarded as life's changes come along. A complete strip, and a better than new rebuild is all very well, but whether farmed out to specialists or DIY, the paint and polish costs mount up, and you will loose the essential time worn charm of a rare original survivor.

 As it stands, my feeling is that for the time being you would be better off producing a reliable, running and useable bike, without the expense of a grand restoration to the finish.  Clean off the flaky rust with a Scotchbrite pad and coat with water based satin finish clear varnish. This retains the existing patina, prevents further deterioration and is easily removed if you decide to go for a full cosmetic upgrade. Don't just rip it to bits, we have all done this, forgotten where parts go and damaged parts in a headlong rush to get it done.

 Have a look for the paperwork, if the original documents are lost retaining the original number  is straightforward, but may require an inspection of the machine by an authorised agent of the DVLA. They will want to see a complete machine, not a pile of parts..

 Have a good look at the finer details on this very forum, you will find plenty to  point you in the right direction. Anything that you don't understand, however daft it seems, just ask and save a sleepless night.

 

 Welcome to the forum, keep us posted.

 Swarfy.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: RichardL on 26.08. 2019 13:32
Wow! Welcome to the forum. That's an amazing time capsule of a project you have there. So much to gaze into. Love the mudguard ornament (still there) but can't really tell what it is. In the "now" picture there appears to be a headlight brow piece laying on the mudguard, but does not appear in Dad's picture.

I am of the opinion that this needs to be a "survivor" bike, kept mostly as is while treated to a cleanup and mechanical go-through. Total cosmetic restoration can happen in the future, but it will only be like it is now once. Trust me, there are vintage specialists out there who will advise to leave all grime and dust in place. That might be something to look into with an expert on the topic, with regard to the cash value.

Wiped clean (per Swarfy) or left funky, I believe the engine should be stripped down to sludge-trap-cleaning level, fixing all else in the engine (and carb, and magneto, and dynamo) along the way. (The sludge trap lives at the core of the crankshaft and is known to be the cause of engine failure when left unattended after decades of down time. DAMHIK.)

Obviously, all safety and control elements must be confirmed in good knick.

Then, there is the seat. The foam will collect moisture and cause the seat pan to rust badly. The condition of the pan, foam and cover should be confirmed. Original pans are hard to come by and rust (even rust-through) can be repaired to great satisfaction.

So, whereabouts are you located (not asking for the address) and what would you like us to call you other than "Roy's Boy"?

Richard L.

Pardon me if I've made an incorrect gender assumption. Maybe, 'Roy's Kid."

Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: RoyC on 26.08. 2019 13:47
Welcome Roy.
Great bike, I like the number plate.
I bet that engine really UMMZZZ.   *smile*

Roy.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 26.08. 2019 14:41
roys51a10,
Are you in the first photo?
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: berger on 26.08. 2019 15:26
welcome to the mad house *welcome* . well it is when some of us are on , no names mentioned *shh* a fine beezer you have there and it will put a big grin on your face *grins*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: duTch on 26.08. 2019 15:54
 Hiya robo- I'm in the 'do as little as necessary to get it up and running camp', ie; as you may need to check the drive sprocket which involves pulling the lump out of the frame, is a good time to just strip it down and give the aforementioned internals a cleanup- otherwise as Swarfo says a rubdown of the flaky stuff and I find a 50/50 solution of phosphoric acid cleans any surface rust up encouragingly well (I used a stiff short bristle wire brush- like a barby brush).....I'm curious how well the spotties work  *eek*

 .......I also like the rego number
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Topdad on 27.08. 2019 16:04
What a fantastic project , with the family connection I'd be very protective of it's originality ,if I rubbed to much dust and oil off I'd feel I was wiping away memories of  your Father . It'll be great to see her back running and as been said putting a massive grin on your face , enjoy ,oh and welcome to this wonderful forum  *welcome*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: RoyC on 27.08. 2019 16:59
I am not a fan of patina, it's another way of saying, I can't be bothered.
IMO it would look better getting it back to how it was in the first photo when his dad was on it.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 27.08. 2019 17:13
I am not a fan of patina, it's another way of saying, I can't be bothered.
IMO it would look better getting it back to how it was in the first photo when his dad was on it.
I see the appeal of keeping originality, to tell the story of a motor vehicle. I do not see the appeal of trying to make a classic into a 'modern'; for instance, by fitting mag-alloy wheels. I intended to just get my A10 going, but one thing led to another and I ended up doing everything I could afford to make it as new.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: roys51a10 on 27.08. 2019 22:36
Hi all,
 Thanks for the replies.  It will be staying with 'patina'  I feel that if I restore it , it won't be what he rode.
I intend to take apart, clean and make sure parts are safe to use.  I am replacing brakes, cables, chain, loom and tyres.  The log book is in my name so no worries there.  The brow was on the bike and may go back on.  The ornament is a 'manneken pis'.  The seat I think is aftermarket, plywood and angle iron base not sure who's.  I would like to go back to single seat which I think it had originally.  I am in Bedfordshire Roy's my fathers name i'm Grant his son.  I wasn't born when the pic was taken!
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: duTch on 28.08. 2019 06:50

 
Quote
.....  It will be staying with 'patina'  I feel that if I restore it , it won't be what he rode........

   Good call..... *wink2*
 I guess you must have Scottish heritage then....my eldest offy has a middle name Roy and his little bro has a Grant in his, as homage to their Ma's folks who were Scots....I didn't have much say in it
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Joolstacho on 28.08. 2019 07:19
Yes, keep it graunchy and authentic, not like all those fabulous, glinting, wallet-sucking 'rich-boy restos' out there!
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Swarfcut on 28.08. 2019 09:13
Grant, however you proceed, you have the basics of a  project many of us on the forum view with envy.....a complete original machine and a registered title.  You may find that with a little care, many of the components you mentioned are still serviceable. Modern replacement parts are of dubious quality and sticking to original bits will save endless hassle as you know they will fit.

 Your first problem is that there is a good chance none of your modern spanners fit, so have a look round for BSF and Whitworth  sizes. A 3/16" and 1/4" Whit spanner will cope with most of the smaller fixings.  A couple of nice adjustables for the bigger stuff. Most nuts and bolts are CEI (Cycle Thread), threads into castings are Whitworth.  Cheap carbon steel taps and dies are useful to clean up rusted threads, plus WD and a bit of heat, rather than a lot of force, on the more stubborn fasteners.

 It will be a bit of a learning curve, but YouTube has plenty of "How I did it Viddys", one of which features a well respected and very active member of this very Forum. Haynes is OK, but features emphasis the later swinging arm models. Roy Bacon's restoration manual is well worth tracking down.

Take it slow and steady, ask if you are unsure, and Good Luck.

 Swarfy
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: duTch on 28.08. 2019 15:16

 
Quote
...... so have a look round for BSF and Whitworth  sizes........

 I call B.S- You may have trouble finding BSF spanners  *whistle*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: bikerbob on 28.08. 2019 15:45
I finf car boot sales and autojumbes good sources for spanners and sockets.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Swarfcut on 28.08. 2019 16:23
duTch  These spanner sizes defy all logic to me. I have here one of my old faithfuls, marked AM 1940, so ex WW2 Air Ministry. One jaw is marked 1/4 W & 5/16 BSF, other end jaw 3/16 W & 1/4 BSF.  The 1/4W end measures 9/16" across  the jaw, much bigger than a nut that fits a 1/4 Whitworth thread.  So hopefully someone can put forward an answer. Thank goodness for the AF and Metric  systems. At least BSA used one system, CEI, for most of their fastenings in the period our bikes were made. Bikerbob is on the money, lots of these obsolete and good quality sockets and spanners find there way to boot sales and jumbles. Some folks collect them, so prices are loaded but the common sizes are usually to be found at a reasonable price. Many of the nuts and bolts on these old bikes have rounded off hexagons, so hammering on an old slightly smaller socket sometimes grips enough to loosen them off. A Dremel with cutting discs is a bit more precision than a rough cut angle grinder.

 New Stainless or BZP fastenings are readily available, I assemble all with Loctite to combat vibration and thread corrosion, makes future maintenance a lot easier.

 Grant, if you go looking for spanners, take a couple of easily removed original nuts and bolts with you to check sizes.

 Swarfy
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 28.08. 2019 16:48
Grant,
Do you have Imperial spanniards?
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: duTch on 28.08. 2019 22:35

 
Quote
duTch  These spanner sizes defy all logic to me...........

 yep- me too....(something to do with bolt shank size plus 1/16"  *conf2*)  I haven't looked but haven't seen a BS-'F' spanner, figuring BSF just being the *fine* thread to complement the coarse BSW, and BS being the 'standard' (can't think of a better word for that)............ *dunno*
 Probably the most elusive needed is the equivalent of ¿¿ 25/64" (AF) fro the Oil pump worm nut......sorry getting off topic here  *smile*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 28.08. 2019 22:58
Probably the most elusive needed is the equivalent of ¿¿ 25/64" (AF) fro the Oil pump worm nut.
Indeed! What is the correct imperial size for that nut?
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: muskrat on 28.08. 2019 23:16
G'day Grant  *welcome*
What a great project! I like the way your thinking. Keep the outside as close to "as is" but make sure everything inside is OK.
Remember there's no such thing as a stupid question. There may be some questionable answers  *lol*
Cheers
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: duTch on 28.08. 2019 23:17
 
Quote
Quote from: duTch on Today at 08:35:53

    Probably the most elusive needed is the equivalent of ¿¿ 25/64" (AF) fro the Oil pump worm nut.

Indeed! What is the correct imperial size for that nut?

 that was a guess from the back of my head  *dunno*... probably closest Imperial size is ~20mm  *smile*
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: trevinoz on 29.08. 2019 22:45
The correct Imperial size is 25/32.
20mm is Metric.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: duTch on 30.08. 2019 00:52

 
Quote
The correct Imperial size is 25/32.
20mm is Metric.

 weeeell I got the 25 bit right *smile* if I'd have thought it through would've guessed it's bigger than 1/2".....
 
 
Quote
....probably closest Imperial size is ~20mm  *smile*
was (obviously?) just a little  tongue in cheek:P
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: roys51a10 on 20.10. 2019 22:56
Hi a bit of an update. Most of it is stripped down and just cleaned.The forks needed new seals (one was actually not leaking not bad for nearly 50 years).Converted to taper head bearings replaced wheel bearings and brake shoes. I decided to take the engine apart and check after reading about the sludge trap.Engine looks untouched,std bore, can't find piston part No anywhere to find comp ratio(67-573) also cam is 356 which i don't think is std.There's very little wear in the bearings so hopefully should be able to clean and reassemble.A few pics of so far.
Thanks Grant.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Greybeard on 20.10. 2019 23:17
Standard pistons!
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: Swarfcut on 21.10. 2019 00:00
Standard Cam is 67-334 on an early plunger, usually found on engines with the dished low compression pistons. 67-356 is sportier cam, a little more lively, originally found on the A7 Star Twin and then on the A10 S/A higher compression variants. Those flat topped pistons will be OK with that cam. Piston 67-572, standard bore, with oversizes 67-574 and 67-576 are all listed as 8.1. As usual the one you want appears nowhere, but 8.1 would be a reasonable guess, bearing in mind 6.5, 7.25, 9.1 were all options, but obviously with a flat top, 9.1 doesn't figure.

 Interestingly the 67-356  Cam and 8.1 Pistons 67-572 were fitted to the Super Flash.

When you come to re assembly, it is a lot easier to assemble the crank, cases and gearbox as a unit, fit this to the frame and then build the rest of the motor into the frame.

Swarfy.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: roys51a10 on 21.10. 2019 00:59
Thanks that'll be a lot lighter way of fitting it back in.Quite a struggle getting it out.I have found the std listed as 572 but these are 573 not found anywhere.
Title: Re: Custodian of an A10
Post by: JulianS on 21.10. 2019 09:03
67 572 is the part number for the piston complete with rings etc.

67 573 is the part number for the bare piston.