The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: paul6647 on 18.08. 2021 20:03
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Good Evening
Recently acquired a 1959 super rocket, I think, but for the life of me I cannot find the frame number despite having removed the enamel/paint on the downtube. I have a logbook stating registration in May 59 and corresponding to the original registration which checks out on GOV vehicle checker, I will be the third owner since registration I think, V5 states 1 former keeper since June 78. Engine number is CA10R9740, V5 states chassis number as 13423 but nothing I can find corresponds to this. Speedo has 9102 miles on it but I don't belive it's the correct speedo(smiths SSM 5007/02 1600)
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That frame number is missing a prefix letter / numbers. Frame numbers are on rhs of headstock, not the downtube.
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Thanks for the reply, I meant the headstock, completely cleaned to bare metal and not a mark, trying to attach a picture on here but sadly it won't allow me to as attatchment is too large, little ignorant on these technical devices so not sure how to reduce the ize of the desired attachment. Anything that would help me identify that I have the correct frame?
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From the details looks like a '59 RR, in which case frame number should start FA7 - (as far as I'm aware). Julian should be along to confirm or deny.
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Thanks but there's just nothing on the frame, happy to mail you a picture of the bike, all looks pretty straight to my inexperienced eye.
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Whenever I see a SR turn up I think it may be my old “XOV252” I owned in the 70’s 😀 (unsurprisingly I’ve been told that UK rego is “dead”). Pic attached.
Obviously the frame number could have been removed for dodgy reasons (tho more likely would it being altered). I have also heard new frames were supplied unstamped, and some of these were “multi year” to cater for both early and late models, and have extra brackets etc making them identifiable to the expert.
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The frame number should be stamped on the steering head tube starting just above the brace and going up the tube. 1958/59 season frames starting with FA7 prefix.
Numbers often masked or hidden due to poorly applied thick powdercoat.
If the original frame has been replaced the number could be stamped anywhere , so check the whole frame. But maybe not stamped at all.
No frame number means no identity for the bike.
If it was one of the "universal" factory replacement frames it would have 2 different rear brake cable stops and a boss for a rod brake pedal.
The previous owner needs to explain.
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As Julian notes, early frames have a sheet metal brace at the lower end of the headstock. Is this in place and undamaged.? The number should be above this brace. I believe on later frames this brace extends almost to the top of the headstock and suppose this would be where the frame number is found, on the brace. I can see the remains of the brace on one of the pictures, below the cleaned off tube. Anyone got a late frame to check the number location?
There are a few minor details which would indicate to me that the machine is not entirely original. That's not to say its not what it purports to be, just that it is not quite correct.
Front and rear mudguards are not contemporary. Rear is the later "arrowhead stay" type, 1960 onwards. Front mudguard and fork ends are an earlier version with the two bolt rear stay mounting to the blade.
Looks to have an auto magneto. I would expect a manual type on a sporting model. The nacelle side flashes are absent. Late models have the choke lever under the saddle nose. Speedo cable past its best, and certainly not right. Also, in my estimation, unusual to have a single petrol tap. Twin taps and a centre banjo are more practical.
Don't run without an air filter, its absence is detrimental to pistons, bores and carb mixture settings. Like Julian says, a little more explaining to be done by the vendor.
Swarfy
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Frames with the wide headstock were introduced around July/August 1960.
The number is stamped on the edge of the wide brace, top to bottom in line with the frame left side down tube.
The speedo fitted is a magnetic type used on some unit singles and Triumphs in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The revs per mile figure of 1600 is wrong for the standard A10 chronometric setup which needs around 1440. So will be inaccurate.
The part of the headlamp assembly housing the switches looks like early A65 as the light switch is on the left (A10 nacelle had switch on right and ammeter on left) and there appears to be a second aperture on the same side which is blanked off (A65 had ignition and light switch on the left)
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My opinion is that the bike is genuine, and importantly you have the log book. However, let's not forget the frame number listed in the V5 is incorrect, in that it lacks the FA7 prefix. The bike has obviously had a rebuild at some time (haven't they all by now?) and several parts are incorrect for year / model as others have highlighted. Maybe it has indeed had a new frame and the V5 number was the new frame number (stamped on or not).
edit: when the bike was new, the log book would have been filled in by the dealer, and the frame number would have contained the correct FA7 prefix. I cannot believe a dealer would make such a glaring mistake as to leave out the prefix so, for it to be changed, someone has contacted the DVLA and asked them to change it. When and why? Given the un-original parts up front, maybe it was in a pile-up and a PO fitted a new frame, giving BSA's (or the dealer's invoice no) as the new number? When is the current V5 dated, because clearly the frame number change pre-dates that.
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On the earlier frames with the smaller “wrap around” headstock reinforcement the frame number is above the reinforcement, on the headstock, next to the grease nipple, as per earlier posts.
Attached a pic off the net, as the number on my ‘56 is too covered in thick paint to show up.
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This is the later 1961 location.
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Paul, have you checked the frame as per Julian's information?
If it was one of the "universal" factory replacement frames it would have 2 different rear brake cable stops and a boss for a rod brake pedal.