The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Joolstacho on 28.06. 2022 09:01

Title: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 28.06. 2022 09:01
I just treated my SR to a very nice finned sump plate with removable magnetic drain plug.
The old sump plate has the brass filter gauze soldered into it's recess as standard. Should I make a new flat gauze and fit it between gaskets?
I could make a new 'dished' one but obviously ally and solder won't work. Set it in with Epoxy? Or... what do the gurus do?
Or maybe the magnetic plug is enough that the gauze isn't necessary.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Greybeard on 28.06. 2022 09:31
When I bought my finned style sum plate it came with a gauze mounted in a frame that gets clamped between gaskets. They must be available somewhere.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 28.06. 2022 10:34
Hmm I've had a nice sheet of fine brass gauze hanging around for years just waiting for this project!
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Rocket Racer on 28.06. 2022 10:52
the billet ones with the centre bolt dont come with the gauze or gaskets but gauzes are available. more annoying for me was the billet type dont have space to run with studs and nuts without machining around the holes…discovered after i fitted longer studs
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Jim S on 28.06. 2022 12:25
The gauze plate is p/n 71-1126.
Here is an example supplier:
https://www.feked.com/bsa-oil-sump-plate-filter-gauze-a7-a10-a50-and-a65-models-en.html.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Greybeard on 28.06. 2022 12:40
I just checked on eBay and found none cheaper than the fecked one
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Richard Hinton on 28.06. 2022 12:43
Try classicbikepartschesshire.com
For your sump gauze, I would run not without it if your return pipe gets blocked no oil to rockers and your breather will blow out oil all over the place, very messy.
Part number 71-1126
£17.39

Good luck
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: RichardL on 28.06. 2022 13:04
I just checked on eBay and found none cheaper than the fecked one

I didn't check shipping, but SRM is 15p cheaper for the part, so, you can take yourself out for a steak dinner.

Richard L.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 28.06. 2022 13:19
Think I ll make one.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: RichardL on 28.06. 2022 14:11
Think I ll make one.

Ah, yes! Australia.

Richard L.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 29.06. 2022 01:36
Anyone have any comment about the possible 'influence' of a magnetic drain plug on the ball in the scavenge tube?

Also... (and I'm sure I'm overthinking this). The original sump plate includes the gauze which rises approx 13mm (Arfaninch) above the level of the crankcase/plate surface.
If I fit/make a flat gauze plate like the Fecked one, the gauze ends up lower by about 13mm instead of 13 mm above it. So it's about 13mm lower than original setup.

Does anyone care? :-0
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: CheeserBeezer on 29.06. 2022 06:38
FYI, I stock both types of sump plates, cast and billet, and I stock the gauze filters. I'd recommend drilling out the holes in the sump plates to take the nuts which normally hold tappet covers on so that you don't have to disturb the studs.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 29.06. 2022 06:47
Cheers mate, I will use my existing studs I think. but it would need refacing the washer/nut lands, can do.
Trouble is with small parts from UK or US, postage to Oz can kill the value!
OTOH I need to order other parts (Auto advance bits) from you, so maybe we could sneak a gauze plate in the package!
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: muskrat on 29.06. 2022 10:10
G'day Jools.
Use tappet cover studs and nuts. No meddling with the plate needed. Both mine use them.
Cheers
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Greybeard on 29.06. 2022 13:12
G'day Jools.
Use tappet cover studs and nuts. No meddling with the plate needed. Both mine use them.
Cheers
+1
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: berger on 29.06. 2022 13:48
i found that to use studs with the ally sump plates the end fins had to be machined away a bit for the nuts to fit, better to do this than use the allen screws.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 29.06. 2022 13:59
My sump plate has plenty of room for washers and nuts. And supplied with it are 4 nice studs, and nuts with reduced size across flats.
You know, I always need a good reason to attempt to remove studs that may have been in for decades. **it happens!!! May be best to leave the studs in.
Still interested to find out about the magnetic plug and ball, and also height of gauze (see my previous post).
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Greybeard on 29.06. 2022 14:12
i found that to use studs with the ally sump plates the end fins had to be machined away a bit for the nuts to fit, better to do this than use the allen screws.
Yes, don't use screws. Removing screws a few times will loosen the threads in the crankcase, then they'll strip or just leak. Studs 1/4" Whitworth to 1/4" BSF, (?) are a much better option. I used the studs and nuts designed for the rocker cover inspection plates. The studs are a bit longer and the nuts have a plain section that cleared the fins on my sump cover.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Greybeard on 29.06. 2022 14:16
... Still interested to find out about the magnetic plug and ball, and also height of gauze (see my previous post).
I've never had a problem with magnet and sump pickup ball. You could make sure the magnet is on the opposite side to the pickup pipe.
The guaze may be a bit lower than the original design but I don't see that as a problem.
Actually, I think my guaze had a raised shape, so not much actual difference in height.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: muskrat on 29.06. 2022 20:05
G'day Jools.
The gauze plate only goes on one way but the sump plate can be turned 4 ways. I have mine with the plug facing forward. One to get the magnet as far away as possible from the pickup, two for ease of getting to the plug. Never had a problem like that.
Some sump plates have the plug central so there might be a problem there.
Cheers
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: chaterlea25 on 30.06. 2022 00:43
Hi Jools,
I think the plate with the soldered on gauze could be from an Ariel Huntmaster twin ??
Yes I did have a problem with a BSA single I rebuilt with the ball sticking
I reported the issue to the maker/supplier at the time
I heated the sump plug to soften the epoxy and pulled the magnet and replaced it with a weaker one

John
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 30.06. 2022 05:25
I wonder why BSA bothered to make a domed shape gauze filter if a simple flat one would suffice.

I'm 99% sure this is NOT an Ariel one, it was on my A10 motor, with every sign of being original. Whist it was shagged, (having been used in a grasstracker), it was very original.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: CheeserBeezer on 30.06. 2022 08:00
The original item was soldered into the sump plate and was never intended to be replaced because it's gauze and can be washed out. It's easier to make as a domed item because the cut edges don't need to be trimmed off as they sit in the solder. The domed shape also gives it some flexibility so the manufacturing tolerances can be a bit more generous. The replacement flat items only just cover the tip of the suction pipe, particularly if the crankcases have been resting on the pipe, as they sometimes do in storage. Anybody who has an original domed item might as well keep using it if it's in good condition.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 30.06. 2022 08:34
2 options...
1: Make a tool to press a dome shape into the gauze. then use 24hr epoxy to glue it into the alloy finned plate recess. No other option really for a brass to aluminium joint.
OR...
2: I could make a slightly shallower dome turning into a flat that can then be sandwiched between 2 face gaskets. Like the Fecked one but with about an 8mm dome.
Probably this is the better option in that I'd need less 'draw' in the pressing, and not relying on Epoxy Glueing.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Richard Hinton on 30.06. 2022 11:43
A wire mesh filter is available that sits between sum plate and casing. Try classic bike bits.
Title: Re: Alloy Sump plate and gauze filter?
Post by: Joolstacho on 30.06. 2022 11:49
Yes Richard, perhaps read back through the thread eh?
Duuuurrrgh!