The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic & Everything Else => Topic started by: muskrat on 27.03. 2023 22:56

Title: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 27.03. 2023 22:56
G'day Fellas.
I've known this for some time but for those that don't.
Cheers
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 27.03. 2023 23:06
And then someone said ATF doesn’t mix with acetone.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 28.03. 2023 01:10
G'day TT.
I'll go out to the shed and try it. There are many types of atf. I have type F (old autos) and I think I have acetone.
Hold my beer.
Cheers
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 28.03. 2023 04:55
G'day TT.
It mixed quite easily. 50/50 acetone and Penrite DX-III mineral atf. I don't have any synthetic or semi synthetic to try.
I'll leave it a few hours to see if it seperates.
Cheers
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: groily on 28.03. 2023 06:26
It mixes fine and is very effective I think. I use it regularly and always have a small (screw-top) jar on the bench.
Not sure what ATF I have, just whatever red stuff the local car parts shop sold me years back.
Acetone comes by the litre plastic bottle here pretty cheap in any supermarket - also find it  useful as a paint thinner for some types that don't do white spirit, tho' that's probably all 'wrong' for reasons of chemistry I don't know about.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 28.03. 2023 08:01
G'day Fellas.
Well it mixed well but after 3 hours it looks like it started to separate or was melting the clear plastic cup it was in! Note to self, keep it in glass or metal.
Cheers
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 28.03. 2023 08:26
G'day Fellas.
Well it mixed well but after 3 hours it looks like it started to separate or was melting the clear plastic cup it was in! Note to self, keep it in glass or metal.
Cheers

Separating out after three hours shouldn’t matter, but maybe that phenomenon was what the naysayers meant.  Thanks for putting the effort in.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 28.03. 2023 08:36
What they meant to say is ATF is not soluable in acetone
It forms an emulson exactly the same as engine oil in petrol did for the old 2 strokes
I think you will find modern 2 stroke oil will dissolve in acetone and of course they omitted acetone alone in which case you have to be quick
They also omited ATF alone
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Rex on 28.03. 2023 08:52
Last time I tried to buy some acetone I found it wasn't readily available anywhere.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Sav on 28.03. 2023 09:02
If desperate for small quantities then nail polish remover
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 28.03. 2023 10:50
Last time I tried to buy some acetone I found it wasn't readily available anywhere.

It’s all over Amazon and eBay.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Rex on 28.03. 2023 10:53
I'm sure it is, but I meant available locally to just go and buy.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Worty on 28.03. 2023 11:44
Does brake cleaner or carb cleaner have acetone in it??  I have genuine white spirit, and did have thinners in the garage??
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 29.03. 2023 04:45
Acetone is thinner than thinners but more importantly it has a lower surface tension so it can wet the surfaces.
This is why some fliuds are better than others
if you look at it in a test tube you will see the miniscus goes a long way up the side of the tube.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Greybeard on 29.03. 2023 10:16
My wife has a largish bottle, (500ml maybe) of nail varnish remover, (acetone). I think she got it at a bargain store such as Willco
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Rex on 29.03. 2023 11:26
Worth knowing.
At least the table proves what I've always suspected, ie those bike restorers who say "it was seized up so I gave it a good dose of WD40" are pretty much wasting their time.
OK as a spray-on lube but crap for a penetrating oil.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Worty on 29.03. 2023 11:51
I tend to use heat, only the last time I did that near the petrol tank it ended up like Berg's van - everything loose all at once. :o *whistle* *dunno* *bright idea*
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: RDfella on 29.03. 2023 12:13
I don't generally waste time with penetrating oils on stubborn threads. If it's seriously attached, nothing much is going to change that other than heat. If it's a bolt, I give the head a good clout with a hammer first to shake it up a bit before applying torque. If it's a nut, heat to red and try to undo. If no success, repeat heat but smack a flat with a cold chisel to expand the nut (preferably supporting the other side in the process). Alternatively, drill a small hole through the nut, parallel with the bolt / stud. Easy then to split the nut. Or, if sufficient room, place a hammer against one flat and smartly (no gentle tapping here!) hit the opposite flat with another. Then reverse and repeat. That expands the nut and it should come undone easily. Final option is to threaten it with Blue Dot (a reloading powder). Not that this would achieve anything, it's just a matter of instilling fear in the nut.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Worty on 29.03. 2023 12:24
Aye, I used to ride with some fellas who could scare a screw loose, or was it them that had the loose screw and were scary - brain's gone, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 29.03. 2023 12:58
Always a choice of tool.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Worty on 29.03. 2023 13:09
Musky, prevention is better than cure.  I know of a tool that couldn't tighten a nut (or rivet) if he'd tried! *angry* *razz* *whistle* *grins*
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Bsareg on 29.03. 2023 16:47
When I restored my frogeye nearly every bolt was snapped off that went into the body. Held a nut over the stub (even the flush ones) and welded through. Let it cool and never had a problem undoing.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Greybeard on 29.03. 2023 17:26
One of my early jobs soon after leaving school was at a place that normally did zinc roofing, (we recovered a flat section of roof on Sean Connerys house in West London).
The company had a request to take down a set of external steel fire escape staircases. It was decided that that cocky young prat Neil could do the horrible job of unscrewing about a hundred rusted nuts and bolts on the steel treads, I got taken there one day and told to squirt Plus gas onto every thread I could see. Next day I got dropped off with some tools and left there. When the boss returned for me later in the day I had managed to get every single nut undone. Plus gas was brilliant stuff. I doubt it has the same formula now.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Rex on 30.03. 2023 13:39
You're right, it isn't the same. I still use it, but like Gunk, Nitromors and many other things, it's a pale imitation now.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Greybeard on 30.03. 2023 13:50
You're right, it isn't the same. I still use it, but like Gunk, Nitromors and many other things, it's a pale imitation now.
We need to be protected from ourselves in case we start drinking the stuff. 😋
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: berger on 30.03. 2023 14:05
plus 1 for plus gas in the stores at the coking plant i worked at we had tins galore, when i was in the stores for the last 4 years of the plants life i borrowed a lot of it because it was so good, shame i run out i should have taken more  *whistle*
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Bsareg on 30.03. 2023 14:21
Switch cleaner is another fluid we've lost. Apparently, carbon tetrachloride is very harmful so banned. We used to be nigh swimming in it in our workshop no ill effects.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 30.03. 2023 20:53
G'day Fellas.
Yes there's so many products that have disappeared or been diluted for "our own good". I think common sense hasn't been bread into humans born after 1970!
Cheers 
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Kickaha on 31.03. 2023 06:01
G'day Fellas.
Yes there's so many products that have disappeared or been diluted for "our own good". I think common sense hasn't been bread into humans born after 1970!
Cheers

There wasn't any prior to then either or we wouldn't have the current H & S now
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: groily on 31.03. 2023 08:41
Diverting from noxious brews - imagine if someone invented the chainsaw today  . . . Far the most dangerous thing in my shed I reckon.
Probably have to get a permit to own or use one and go on a  course . . .
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: muskrat on 31.03. 2023 08:58
Diverting from noxious brews - imagine if someone invented the chainsaw today  . . . Far the most dangerous thing in my shed I reckon.
Probably have to get a permit to own or use one and go on a  course . . .
Ha, won't be long and motorcycles will be in the same group. Working in a chainsaw shop, there's brand new Chinese copy's of an old Stihl  36" that doesn't have a chain brake!!! You can buy it on the net.
I went to the chemist a while back asking foe borasic acid. He asked what for? I said an eye bath. The look of horror I got. That's what grandma always used.
Cheers
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: groily on 31.03. 2023 09:16
That's scary musky - I'm really surprised  it's allowed onto the market even if presumably fitted with a centrifugal clutch.
I hate banster-baiters as a rule - but there are some limits.
Thinking of chemists - wasn't THAT long ago that you could send your manservant out for a draught of laudanum  . . .  Used to be able to get concentrated acids too  . . .  Hate to think what would happen if I nipped out and demanded a half litre of sulphuric these days, probably have a blue light outside the house in short order.


Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Rex on 31.03. 2023 09:45
I'm old enough to remember when schools had Bunsen burners and lathes for pupils to injure themselves on (supposedly)
Then again, I recall cadets in the CCF walking around the school with 303's loaded with blanks. *eek*
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Greybeard on 31.03. 2023 09:52
It's all about the fear of litigation. I blame the American law companies.

I saw a video last night showing a plane crashing at an airshow in the 1950's. The debris landed on the spectators. 28 died and many were injured. There were no legal cases brought!
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Worty on 31.03. 2023 11:32
Diverting from noxious brews - imagine if someone invented the chainsaw today  . . . Far the most dangerous thing in my shed I reckon.
Probably have to get a permit to own or use one and go on a  course . . .

When I first started using power tools, I was amazed at what one could buy without any 'checks'.  One of the reasons why I do most of my own stuff now.  When I was young, I thought these were specialist pieces of equipment that only 'professionals' were allowed to use.  Reminds me of how the Catholic church kept the plebs in the dark by conducting services in Latin, creating a mystique and unknowability that gave them power.  Once the Bible was tranlated into English by the pre-Reformers, and people could read it for themselves, they realised much of what they'd been told was bull****.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Worty on 31.03. 2023 11:37
That's scary musky - I'm really surprised  it's allowed onto the market even if presumably fitted with a centrifugal clutch.
I hate banster-baiters as a rule - but there are some limits.
Thinking of chemists - wasn't THAT long ago that you could send your manservant out for a draught of laudanum  . . .  Used to be able to get concentrated acids too  . . .  Hate to think what would happen if I nipped out and demanded a half litre of sulphuric these days, probably have a blue light outside the house in short order.

If you want to look down the barrel of a H&K MP5, try buying Hydrogen Peroxide with a bag load of fertiliser.  Ooooh, there's a knock on the door now ....................  'Yes officer, no officer, please take that barrel out of my nose'.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Greybeard on 31.03. 2023 13:25
If you want to look down the barrel of a H&K MP5, try buying Hydrogen Peroxide with a bag load of fertiliser.  Ooooh, there's a knock on the door now ....................  'Yes officer, no officer, please take that barrel out of my nose'.
Well that post has got your name put on an MI5 watch list 🤔
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 31.03. 2023 14:38

Ha, won't be long and motorcycles will be in the same group. Working in a chainsaw shop, there's brand new Chinese copy's of an old Stihl  36" that doesn't have a chain brake!!! You can buy it on the net.

Cheers

The chainsaw is the copy of the Stihl Lightnings
The 070 , 080 , 090 .
These were Stihl's biggest sellers and many believe the best saw Stihl ever made
I have a couple . Good originals go for over $ 1000
There was one at the Lithgow swap complete with post hole digging & timber boring accessories
S yes you took it out into the bush, cut doen a tree, milled it into post & rails dug the hole planted the post then either bored the holes or the bolts or mortised out a hole for the rail.
Men were men in those days
Stihl made that saw till 1996  despite it being illegal to sell it in the USA from 1969 and in Aust from 1972 .
Australia was the bigest single market after the USA banned them and we  on sold them into Malysia & New Gunea
A no fuss saw, no kick back brake 1/4" full chisel chain ( can run up to 1/2" chain) , hard nose solid bar and came up to a massive 40" 2 man saw 
They are still the back bone of a lot of loggers in 3rd world countries  and because of the massive numbers in use they were one of the first Stihl saws to have complete set  of aftermarket parts made for them once Stihl had abandoned supporting them.
And because the demand for parts was so high and the used prices are so high , several companies buy the parts to make a complete saw & sell them as "rebuild kits " becaue they can not be sold as an assembled saw due to the absence of the chain brake
There is also a conversion pack to make them a concrete / cut off saw
Although being very heavy, they are beautifully balanced and can easily be used one handed.
Bodies are Mg alloy full crank, separate barrel & head can be fitted with reed valves & ported to double the power 
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: Black Sheep on 01.04. 2023 06:55
I suppose Stihl and Husquvarna are responsible in their ways for the massive destruction of the world's forests. The same category as arms manufacturers (BSA anyone?) being in their way responsible for rather a lot of population control. The complex world of ethics. No, not the well-known English county.
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: groily on 01.04. 2023 10:37
Thorry, took me a thecond to dethifer that Black Theep!
Title: Re: Penetrating oil
Post by: KiwiGF on 01.04. 2023 10:39
Diverting from noxious brews - imagine if someone invented the chainsaw today  . . . Far the most dangerous thing in my shed I reckon.
Probably have to get a permit to own or use one and go on a  course . . .

They are a crazy device, I have 3, the one handed chinese 12” jobbie is the safest, the gawd knows how old stihl 24” with buggered chainbrake is probably almost as dangerous as riding a motorbike 😆 but it can cut down huge trees in a few seconds. Just dont let them fall on yr house eh.

Log splitters are not exactly safe 😆 , got one of those as well but stilhl have all my fingers (just)

PS just 130 of these pesky pine trees to go, they are a weed in nz, a big one but still a weed