The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Macbeth on 27.12. 2023 02:36
-
So ive prob done 200klm on the bike since I bought it, its always had ample oil & big solid flow as im getting used to the bike & watching it like a hawk on every start. Oil looked that typical old oil so I decided to change it this morning
There is no engine knock, bit of valve noise which can be louder on start but the engine is faultless to ride. It looks like a Shim to me, its a spring steel & very thin. Any ideas ?
-
No question. Those are pieces of crankshaft end float shims. Complete strip down and rebuild everything that needs it forthcoming.
Richard L.
-
No question. Those are pieces of crankshaft end float shims. Complete strip down and rebuild everything that needs it forthcoming.
Richard L.
Cheers Richard, what's likely caused it ? Age & wear/tear ?
I always ready myself for issues on buying a new bike & looks like ive caught one in the nads here. If anyone knows someone in Brisbane whom they recommend for a big repair pls let me know
-
Its caused by the drive nut coming loose and no longer pushing the inner race of the roller onto the shims. The inner race can start to spin and that destroys the shims.
You will find the DS bearing may be a sliding fit on the shaft, that's OK with locktite so long as there's no play.
I'm rebuilding a bottom end that has had this happen and I've had to modify a shim to sit in the wear groove in the crank web before i can then add shims for the end float.
The drive nut should be 67lb-ft and have a tab washer, many are nothing like tight enough.
SRM do a hex nut conversion that makes it easier to get the torque right.
Also check for a wear step on the crank drive splines, this may catch the drive on the splines and not fully push on the shims. I've just been stoning the splines to smooth out just such a step.
-
It’s caused by the drive nut coming loose and no longer pushing the inner race of the roller onto the shims.
Champion mate 👍 Appreciate that info & some hope of a not so expensive fix.
-
As Rob says and adding that the loose nut allows the lobes of the cush drive to increase the sideways movements of the crankshaft, putting more forces on the shims and inner race.
At one time, I would have suggested reaching out to our member “Dutch” (in Brisbane) but he went silent a while back. Others here (more local than Chicago, Illinois) may have Brisbane contacts, otherwise, you might ask Dave Kellett Motorcycle Engineering to steer you to someone. (Long story how I know of them.) Another option is to do it yourself, if you’re mechanically inclined. These are not highly sophisticated machines and you can get all the advice you want here on the forum (some from actual experts).
Richard L.
-
Be sure to fit the tab washer - 65-2521 to stop it undoing, the split pin is a distraction, its just to protect the timing case if it all goes pear-shaped. Funny I've stripped a few of these engines and don't recall the tab washer so I suspect it gets left out.
-
Be sure to fit the tab washer - 65-2521 to stop it undoing, the split pin is a distraction, its just to protect the timing case if it all goes pear-shaped. Funny I've stripped a few of these engines and don't recall the tab washer so I suspect it gets left out.
No tab washer on mine. Just brute force with a good splash of Loctite and the split pin. Don't know from memory how a tab washer would fit - onto splines and around the nut *????* *????* *dunno* *dunno*
-
G'day Mac.
I agree with all replies. Full bottom end rebuild if it were mine. Before you strip it down measure the endfloat with a dial to give you a rough idea of the shims required.
Have a real good look at the t/s bush, crank journals, cam & bushings.
The d/s bearing "should" be a light press fit on the shaft which makes it a bit of a job to trial shim the endfloat. I like to use a bearing with a nylon cage to make it easy to get the bearing off. Heating the bearing in oil on the stove makes it easier to put on the shaft.
If you decide to do the job yourself there is plenty of help here on the forum. I have a mate up there with a machine shop that's been playing with bikes for 50 years if you need any machining done.
Cheers
ps: Worty got in while I was one finger typing. Never used a tab washer, I make a shim washer to go behind the split pin.
-
It’s caused by the drive nut coming loose and no longer pushing the inner race of the roller onto the shims.
Champion mate 👍 Appreciate that info & some hope of a not so expensive fix.
As per other advice this forum can steer you through doing the whole job yourself. A workshop charging an hourly rate would cost a fair bit, I would guess 8 to 16 hours? (assuming no other issues found). In NZ the labour rate in main dealerships is $130 ph.
A compromise would be to remove the engine from the frame and take just that to a workshop for the crankshaft re-shim job. Preferably remove the head before taking the engine from the frame, and maybe also the barrel as the lower weight makes lifting the engine out easier. You can leave the pistons and magneto in place (and avoid doing the ignition timing).
-
I've just bought the tab washer, it fits on the spline and gets bent over into the cut out in the nut, so you have to bend it through the spring. I don't ever recall doing this so this will be a first *smile*
-
Hi All,
I wrote a reply earlier but it seems to have gotten lost, no harm as all the relevant advice has been given
My advice is to forget the lockwasher and use loctite on clean metal
My theory is that the lockwasher's are soft while all the other components are hardened, the washer yields over time and pressure from the cush drive action.. leading to the nut loosening
Once loctited I have never seen one come loose, I have done this on quite a number of BSA's over the years
John
-
Its not a bad job and if the shims are busted there's a good chance the bearing is not a tight fit on the shaft so shimming may be relatively easy.
-
I've just bought the tab washer, it fits on the spline and gets bent over into the cut out in the nut, so you have to bend it through the spring. I don't ever recall doing this so this will be a first *smile*
I'm confused with this. I had to have 3mm shaved off the spacer to align the engine sprocket with the clutch chainwheel (Bergs and MWAS supervised and machined). The only concern we had was that the spacer would clear the splines by a few threads so the nut could be belted up against it. This being the case, where would the tab washer fit over the splines *????*
-
Hi All,
I wrote a reply earlier but it seems to have gotten lost, no harm as all the relevant advice has been given
My advice is to forget the lockwasher and use loctite on clean metal
My theory is that the lockwasher's are soft while all the other components are hardened, the washer yields over time and pressure from the cush drive action.. leading to the nut loosening
Once loctited I have never seen one come loose, I have done this on quite a number of BSA's over the years
John
This is what I did John.
-
I agree with the logic of leaving the washer out, it is softer. May experiment when i get to that stage. I've just bought the SRM hex nut to replace the standard part, the idea is that it takes a socket and torque wrench so its easier to get the torque right.
https://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/product/a7-a10-gold-star-cush-drive-nut-upgrade
-
I agree with the logic of leaving the washer out, it is softer. May experiment when i get to that stage. I've just bought the SRM hex nut to replace the standard part, the idea is that it takes a socket and torque wrench so its easier to get the torque right.
https://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/product/a7-a10-gold-star-cush-drive-nut-upgrade
I went for a new, original nut then bought a Peugeot suspension socket that fits it - total cost £22. The weird thing is the hex nut size on the Peugeot tool which, from memory, is something between 34 and 36mm. Fitted it with a 3/4", ratchet (built for trucks, I think), brake hard on and tightened until my Popeye arms bulged (broke the rear brake cable in the process). Then flat punched the nut quite a few times to nip it up a bit more. Hopefully, the thing won't come loose. *work* *good3*
-
G'day Mac.
I agree with all replies. Full bottom end rebuild if it were mine.
Yep that's where im going. Ive since learnt of a bloke in brissy that does them albeit his own & occasionally others Im told. I live in a high-rise thus my car park my bikes are in is 4 stories underground, stinking hot, dusty & as dark as a bats bum. Tolerable for a cable adjustment, oil change & some polishing only. I like my bikes spot on so I reckon whilst someone is in there then finish the job properly. Oddly the moment I went to change the oil, the return on the kicker broke *smile* The bike had sat for quite some years in a collection prior to me buying it so I doubt the owner knew of it, he wasn't a bike rider pur se.
-
the shim is the only item on the crank preventing roller bearing end float and small shims arn t really up to the job. [ although i still use shims ]
a possible solution is shimming behind the roller bearing outer race which was well known when i first got into a10s . however i shim to the nearest large size of shim and skip the thin ones. i believe if the primary chain is well aligned the crank will self align to a certain degree. what do you think?
-
the shim is the only item on the crank preventing roller bearing end float and small shims arn t really up to the job. [ although i still use shims ]
a possible solution is shimming behind the roller bearing outer race which was well known when i first got into a10s . however i shim to the nearest large size of shim and skip the thin ones. i believe if the primary chain is well aligned the crank will self align to a certain degree. what do you think?
One thick “shim” is a solution, my engine guy made one up after doing the main bearing line ream job. I do realise this could be expensive to have done but thought it worth mentioning.
-
^^^ Yes, one thick shim.
Have had the metal confetti experience, using several thin ones.
-
One thick “shim” is a solution, my engine guy made one up after doing the main bearing line ream job. I do realise this could be expensive to have done but thought it worth mentioning.
Sounds a good idea once I see what else is needing sorting once it gets opened. Ive made enough mistakes in life to know its only expensive if you have to do it twice.
-
G'day Mac.
Pitty we're not closer. I'd love to help. Sister or nephew come down to visit from Ipswich now and then would save on freight.
Cheers
-
I believe that riders of high performance bikes including racers avoid lock washers for the reasons already stated, including the clutch nut. They are soft and they take a hammering likely to slightly loosen the pressure on the shims. It is likely that a soft lock washer could reduce the pressure on the shims from 65 ft-lbs to zero so goodbye shims. I use a cheap impact driver drill to belt it up to about 80 ft-lbs ( the capacity of my cheap driver) with some loctite on the thread.
-
I believe that riders of high performance bikes including racers avoid lock washers for the reasons already stated, including the clutch nut. They are soft and they take a hammering likely to slightly loosen the pressure on the shims. It is likely that a soft lock washer could reduce the pressure on the shims from 65 ft-lbs to zero so goodbye shims. I use a cheap impact driver drill to belt it up to about 80 ft-lbs ( the capacity of my cheap driver) with some loctite on the thread.
Similar to me Col, belt it up with Loctite. Just as a related aside, when I put the driveshafts on the Octy, I used the old, felt type gaskets. When all the bolts came loose, it turned out that the gaskets had disintegrated. My theory is that the failing gaskets created a tiny gap that allowed for movement in the bolts, which then loosened completely to failure over 6k miles (no Loctite). This time, no gaskets, a damn good degrease, a good dollop of Loctite, and torqued to slightly above spec. After marking them up with permanent marker, I've checked them over 2k miles and no movement has taken place.
For the clutch centre nut, that was the same as the cush except for the fact I did include a tab washer.
-
Not to pour petrol on the fire, but I had this issue for years, rebuild less than a few hundred miles later and shes spitting shims out. Cush drive nut always tight never ever came loose. I found the main bearing could creep along the crankshaft and when doing so would chew up the shims. Solution for me, other that having the crank built up and machined(nobody near me to do it) was our old friend loctite. So while you're in there check the fit of your bearing on the crank as well doesn't hurt
-
Solution for me, other that having the crank built up and machined(nobody near me to do it) was our old friend loctite.
By which, I trust you mean the bearing-gap filler type, as I have used (available for various gaps, of course).
-
Not to pour petrol on the fire, but I had this issue for years, rebuild less than a few hundred miles later and shes spitting shims out. Cush drive nut always tight never ever came loose. I found the main bearing could creep along the crankshaft and when doing so would chew up the shims. Solution for me, other that having the crank built up and machined(nobody near me to do it) was our old friend loctite. So while you're in there check the fit of your bearing on the crank as well doesn't hurt
It will def get a going over mate. I just hope it has not caused any issues but hell if there is any wear on anything on opening then the wallet stays out until it’s all well sorted.
-
In case no one mentioned it, while the cases are split, clean the sludge trap and the anti-wetsump valve. 👌👌
-
Order the 2 sludge trap plugs now, they will be toast by the time you get them out.
-
Agree, no doubt you will need them, but you’ll need plenty else as well. Bundle the shipping. Also, maybe you’re leaving the rebuild to someone else.
Richard L.
-
Agree, no doubt you will need them, but you’ll need plenty else as well. Bundle the shipping. Also, maybe you’re leaving the rebuild to someone else.
Richard L.
I'll def give it to someone mate. I do not have any facilities to do anything
-
Solution for me, other that having the crank built up and machined(nobody near me to do it) was our old friend loctite.
By which, I trust you mean the bearing-gap filler type, as I have used (available for various gaps, of course).
yes that exact one the 641 *smile*
-
So what is the likelihood of any sever damage running the bike 3 klm (I found a BSA mech close by) Understanding that’s a mess of a question yet I’m thinking that shim may well have been in the sump for quite a while & frankly it’s runs very well. They obviously run with some float & thinking I may well be up for considerable further work anyway.
-
There you go - nothing happened. She ran the few klm’s like it was new
-
this thread brings back memory's , i found my shim on the sump plate years ago and remember a clunk every time i kicked it up, the bike was thrashed for ages before i stripped it and sorted it. a bloke at a brit bike shop in derby told me the crank would find it's own place , but it played on my mind so sorted it
-
"The crank would find its own place" I like the optimism, let's hope that's inside the engine *smile*. I've seen at least one A10 where a con-rod decided it's place was in the gearbox...
-
limeyrob i thought about him saying that as well but it was mainly a trihard shop, i put it right because this in the pic happened to me in 1980
-
Is that the dreaded journal radius? *eek*
-
limeyrob before it got rusty and was fresh it certainly looked like the dreaded radius
-
Yer crank found its own place, eh Bergs *wink2* *beer* *beer*
-
worty that was the 1980 crank the crank he said would find it's own place has found it. it's still in the bike but shimmed up again *beer*
-
worty that was the 1980 crank the crank he said would find it's own place has found it. it's still in the bike but shimmed up again *beer*
Wot *ex* You mean you repaired it *????*
-
worty get a grip that crank was toast , the one that lost it's shim is still in the bike *help*
-
worty get a grip that crank was toast , the one that lost it's shim is still in the bike *help*
Ahhhhh - I blame the beer *beer* *beer* *beer*
-
G'day Macbeth.
It may not happen soon but it will happen!
Cheers
-
G'day Macbeth.
It may not happen soon but it will happen!
Cheers
Nup...id say the donk is in 2 pieces on a bench atm *smile* Top getting a going over as well
-
(gulp) if anyone knows where some good condition barrels are ..let me know
Absolutely crazy it was still running just so well. Anyway gudgeon clip missing so gudgeon has scored the right barrel very deeply & the mech isn't confident with a bore. Left rod is damaged also blah blah blah ..soooo all good full rebuild & I get a good bike back I can look after. Any UK recond barrels about ? I cant see any online going through the 5-6 main BSA shops online. We are both going to have a look about. He said the seat is really good though *smile* *smile* *smile*
-
If your barrels are otherwise good then price up sleeving to std and std pistons. Its a good repair and may not be a pricey as you expect (fingers crossed).
Gudeon pin circlips should not come out (they are hard enough to get out when you want to) so the question has to be asked, were old ones re-fitted?
-
If your barrels are otherwise good then price up sleeving to std and std pistons. Its a good repair and may not be a pricey as you expect (fingers crossed).
Gudeon pin circlips should not come out (they are hard enough to get out when you want to) so the question has to be asked, were old ones re-fitted?
Just a note on this. When Bergs rebuilt my engine, he found that the guy who rebuilt it before (who was supposed to be a classic bike builder - not), had used flat circlips that were not located in the correct slot but between the gudgeon pin and the piston. *pull hair out* *pull hair out* *angry* It had been this way for 10,000m of reasonably hard riding.
For the full horror story of my engine rebuild, see: https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=17648.0
-
I've just got a new set of gudgeon pin circlips to replace while the engine is apart. These are the plain wire type and interestingly the ones fitted are wire with a loop to make them easier to get out. The new ones are very stiff and take noticeably more compressing to get them to fit.
-
There is a barrel on eBay at the moment. At 250 quid this seems an awful lot of money not to mention getting it to you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404659795469
It is close to me for a change.
John
-
G'day Macbeth.
I agree with Rob. Re-sleeve back to std.
https://www.classicbikespares.com.au/product/cylinder-liner-bsa-a10-1950-63-hepolite/
Cheers
-
G'day Macbeth.
I agree with Rob. Re-sleeve back to std.
https://www.classicbikespares.com.au/product/cylinder-liner-bsa-a10-1950-63-hepolite/
Cheers
Great mate tar, onto it now. Ive bought a few bits & bobs from them & their post is super fast. I did look there but rushed through looking for full barrels
-
If your barrels are otherwise good then price up sleeving to std and std pistons.
Onto that option now mate *wink2*
-
There is a barrel on eBay at the moment. At 250 quid this seems an awful lot of money not to mention getting it to you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404659795469
It is close to me for a change.
John
Just had a butchers at it John... Plan B. Sent a msg re freight to here. May be crazy post re weight
-
Just a note on this. When Bergs rebuilt my engine, he found that the guy who rebuilt it before (who was supposed to be a classic bike builder - not), had used flat circlips that were not located in the correct slot but between the gudgeon pin and the piston.
Cheers mate, i let the bloke know. Hate mentioning things like this to mechs but ive been 42 years in my trade & ive learnt sometimes a simple bit of advice goes a long way. The older i get the more i think my father was right *smile*
-
Another benefit of sleeving back to std is that I think you may have more choice of pistons. I think some of the oversizes are in short supply. I see the Indian's are doing 8.5:1 with rings for £90 posted for a pair.
-
Another benefit of sleeving back to std is that I think you may have more choice of pistons. I think some of the oversizes are in short supply. I see the Indian's are doing 8.5:1 with rings for £90 posted for a pair.
Good point. I kinda thought if I get a yr out of it before a build that’d be ok but it’s now a bit earlier. I like my bikes reliable & running well so a fresh engine & lots of new oil & no one but myself on it I recon it will see me out
-
Another benefit of sleeving back to std is that I think you may have more choice of pistons. I think some of the oversizes are in short supply. I see the Indian's are doing 8.5:1 with rings for £90 posted for a pair.
STD pistons (NOS) are often cheaper and more common than oversizes too for obvious reasons.
-
If you are doing all this work is it worthwhile fitting a cartridge filter?
John
-
If you are doing all this work is it worthwhile fitting a cartridge filter?
John
Prob not for me mate. I’ve looked about reading a lot & they appear problematic. I’m a very frequent oil changer. I love my big drums of diesel oil for my Guzzi & last BM
-
I get what you're saying Mac, but they are a good (and easy) addition - I and many others have had no problems with them. With the Norton spin on set up, you can use relatively cheap Citroen 2CV filters. Part of the reason for my wrecked engine was the disintegration of four fibre ATD gears (don't ask), the debris from those shredded gears caused havoc in my motor, especially with a plain timing side bush. Don't tend to run the oil much beyond 1200m, even with a filter.
-
a lot of black oil is down to poor valve gear or blow by on the rings. i fitted a filter and use straight 40 or 50 summer riding only though, i change mine with filter at 1500 miles ish and cut the filter open to have look , up to now 3 filters later everything is good
-
Another vote for the external filter. When I have had the engine down for other reasons(mainly bloody shims) the sludge trap is lovely and clean.
-
When I delivered my bike to the new owner I took along a nearly full 25 ltr drum of oil. The chap said, "Does the bike use a lot of oil then? ". I explained why I change the oil, and filter, frequently.
Off topic: My new BSA does not leak a drop 🙄
-
When i was using an A65 for everyday communing and clocking up a lot of miles the sludge trap blocked at around 15,000 miles (perhaps less, I can't remember) so when I got the rebuilt bottom end back from BSA I fitted a filter (Off a Simca I seem to recall) in the return. I was not concerned about debris, my objective was to reduce the speed at which the sludge trap was filling up. I sold the bike with around 36,000 on it and the engine was fine. I've just bought a filter unit for the A10 I'm putting together, its probably an overkill given how little mileage it will do but I so hate the uncertainty of the sludge trap and how the only way to check it is an engine out strip down.
-
GB says Off topic: My new BSA does not leak a drop 🙄 -------YET funnily enough i have just checked betsy's drip tray and nothing on it, and she is OLD she only sweats a bit when i make her have it and she has heavy breathing with all the exciting times we have *smiley4*
-
GB says Off topic: My new BSA does not leak a drop 🙄 -------YET funnily enough i have just checked betsy's drip tray and nothing on it, and she is OLD she only sweats a bit when i make her have it and she has heavy breathing with all the exciting times we have *smiley4*
Fnarr, fnarr - inuendo city Bergs *whistle* *whistle* *beer* *beer*
-
The expression 'Belt and Braces: I decided that starting off with a clean sludge trap, an external filter and mongrade oil was how I wanted to go. I frequently changed the oil and filter 👍
-
This is my wallet your throwing about the room you blokes *smile*.. yeah ok ok ive revisited the subject for a few hours & seen enough to put it back on the stove. I like the fitment where the chaps put the filter in the tool box. Engines are only expensive if you have to do them twice
-
The filter complete was about £25 when I got one a few weeks ago.
-
The filter complete was about £25 when I got one a few weeks ago.
Def not a $ issue yet a complexity added & heavy on failure. Yet relooking at it ive secured thousands of 2800 psi hydraulic hoses in my work & a new hose fitted well is as secure as it gets. I had not seen them in the tool box before.. I like that idea as I always carry a tool pouch in a pack anyway
-
Its age, I can't abide over paying *smile*
I've got a very nice new set of oil pipes and its paining me to work out how to make them fit *sad2*
-
The expression 'Belt and Braces: I decided that starting off with a clean sludge trap, an external filter and mongrade oil was how I wanted to go. I frequently changed the oil and filter 👍
I read some say they removed the sludge trap & others clean it. Putting what I’ve read together I’m thinking removal & putting a filter in might be the best long term option. Sound right ?
-
You can't really remove it, all you can do is either fit the tube or not but the tube is a later addition, early cranks don't have it but just the hollow journals as a trap. With or without the tube the volume to fill the trap is the depth up to the oil holes. The point about the return paper filter is that its reducing the fine particles so the trap takes much longer to fill. what I don't know is the effect of different oils or additives. I plan to run a straight 40 or 50 as I've had good experience with these in the past.
-
You can't really remove it, all you can do is either fit the tube or not but the tube is a later addition, early cranks don't have it but just the hollow journals as a trap. With or without the tube the volume to fill the trap is the depth up to the oil holes. The point about the return paper filter is that its reducing the fine particles so the trap takes much longer to fill. what I don't know is the effect of different oils or additives. I plan to run a straight 40 or 50 as I've had good experience with these in the past.
Appreciate the explanation mate 👍 I want this done properly.
-
G'day Mac.
Leaving the tube out will upset the balance factor. Just clean it, put it back in and change the oil often. Add a filter and change the oil half as often.
The oil is the life blood of the motor. Yes "in the old days" so on and so forth. Oil and filters are cheap compared to a rebuild!
Filters on both mine and changed every second oil change at roughly 1000 miles.
Cheers
-
I've been following this guy on Youtube who's rebuilding a blown A65. He rebuilt the engine 3,500 miles before it destroyed itself. it looks like a rod broke but he's doing the sludge trap and bottom end again. In this video he shows the level of sludge trap gunk at 3,500 miles and his opinion is its not much. I disagree and think that if that's what one looks like at 3,500 miles I'm definitely fitting the extra filter. Worth watching the whole series and there is some great advice too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KzXPIzev8c
-
That big journal sludge trap tube needs to come out because it reveals another cavity which acts as a reservoir for the gunk, separating particulates out by centrifugal force. Folks remove the end plugs, clear out the visible tube, think the job's done. But that radial bolt needs to come out, then the tube itself will be released and come out, as on that viddy. It may require persuasion or even destruction, if it is well carboned up, replacements are available. As stated, don't leave it out.
Ideally the bolt should be replaced with new, and from experience folks use a good dab of loctite as belt and braces. Failure is a recipe for major damage. A cleaned out crank, a filter in the system and frequent oil changes gives the best of both worlds and keeps things running smoothly, as well as extending the life of that crank timing side plain bush.
Swarfy.
-
All great advice gents - really appreciate all this knowledge
-
The toolbox on the Plungie is not wide/deep enough to house the Norton type filter. On mine I mounted the filter on the bottom of the rear mudguard, behind the gearbox. This is a great position for clean filter changes.
-
Today's task for me is to offer up the filter unit and try various locations and, from experience, not rush into spending our making a bracket for a location that doesn't work *conf*. Above gearbox or under the mudguard are favorites so far.
I had to chisel the sludge trap tube out so I've already got the new tube and flywheel bolt.
-
Is this a swinging arm frame?
-
Mine is, 1959. Its a kind of cafe racer so its got a shorter chrome rear mudguard. I've just been offering up the engine plates and there seems to be room.
-
i put mine on a bracket held by the rocker box nut and rested on the mag with a rubber o ring,i had to alter the inlet and outlet for rocker feed and return to tank because my oil tank return goes into the filler tube, this caused a problem with carb clearance so made a spacer for carb.
-
Not really recommending this approach, but since filter type and position is the current focus, thought I’d jump in, as well. My use of an oversized, non-Norton, aftermarket screw-on cartridge holder. Other approaches found in the same thread. https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=2913.msg59586#msg59586
Richard L.
-
Here is the corrected link address (also added to my post, above): https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=2913.msg59586#msg59586
-
I opted for one of the easiest ways of fitting a commando type filter housing, uses the std oil pipe too, and I reckon the horizontal mounting fits with the engine rather than vertical. Just my opinion *smile*
-
a bit awkward getting to the points richard
-
Yah. In order to work on the mag I have to remove it from the one cylinder base stud holding it in place. EditI did say I didn’t recommend this approach. In my case, I bought the filter mount and realized it was huge. Months later (too late to return it) I figured “what the hell,” and found a place for it. I gotta say, it’s been working fine and I now use chrome-plated canisters.
Richard L.
-
You can't really remove it, all you can do is either fit the tube or not but the tube is a later addition, early cranks don't have it but just the hollow journals as a trap. With or without the tube the volume to fill the trap is the depth up to the oil holes. The point about the return paper filter is that its reducing the fine particles so the trap takes much longer to fill. what I don't know is the effect of different oils or additives. I plan to run a straight 40 or 50 as I've had good experience with these in the past.
Cheers mate. I was interested in an opinion from a few of you. So we are going the full job. We have found good barrels (that wasn’t easy), crank is getting ground, new oil pump, bearings etc etc etc. I am definitely going to fit a filter.
The damage from the gudgeon was too much to sleeve it
Im a bit of a fan of a diesel oil & am an habitual oil changer & the old Guzzi seems to love the diesel oil for the last 8 yrs +
It’s a good bit cheaper oil yet I’m more about having both the Guzzi & this BSA on the same high detergent oil with great anti wear additives - reasonable idea with a fresh A10 engine ?
-
G'day Mac.
15/40 might be a little light. Good to run in for a few hundred miles. 20/60 would be my choice.
Cheers
-
G'day Mac.
15/40 might be a little light. Good to run in for a few hundred miles. 20/60 would be my choice.
Cheers
Yeah I was thinking that & if there was a 20-50. 60 might be a bit much for the Guzzi yet again I live in brissy traffic in summer & you know that temp.
So cool with diesel oil huh ?
Just need to find a Citroen filter & get it into the tool box.
-
G'day Mac.
"So cool with diesel oil huh ?"
Yes mate. On a fresh rebuild the diesel oil should keep it clean. Not recommended for an old worn motor or anything with a wet clutch.
Cheers
-
G'day Mac.
"So cool with diesel oil huh ?"
Yes mate. On a fresh rebuild the diesel oil should keep it clean. Not recommended for an old worn motor or anything with a wet clutch.
Cheers
Oh def I’d never put it in an older petrol or wet clutch. I’d rather have a fresh old model engine on diesel oil for the additives & higher detergent. We had tractors on the farm that were untouched other than maintenance that were 40-50 yrs old & man did I change a lot of oil as a kid. Those old Detroits ran full roar 20 hrs a day in 40c
-
Is the logic of a high detergent oil that it keeps the dirt in suspension until it get to the cartridge filter? OK with plenty of oil and filter changes and if you have fitted a cartridge filter but how does this work with the sludge trap?
-
G'day Rob.
With a fresh rebuild everything in the motor is clean (don't forget the oil tank). Any carbon from blowby ends in the sump and pumped to the tank via the filter. So on the next revolution it's only clean oil being pumped into the crank. The sludge trap should stay sludge free.
Cheers
-
Also the advantage of that sweet spot on the ZDDP for lube & it is cheaper for frequent changes. When it’s an older design engine (ie no modern water cooled tolerances) & not sharing clutch oil & without catalytic converters it makes sense to my thinking once it’s a fresh engine build
That normal oil contaminant is better being in circulation & going through the filter
-
The distinction between "petrol" and "diesel" oils is a bit of a myth with modern day oil blends. A typical supermarket oil will say suitable for petrol and diesel, but here we're talking the everyday low stressed engines not highly tuned stuff that perhaps requires a more exotic lubricant (supposedly).
When I was involved with Vauxhall OHC engines in the 1980's, camshaft wear was almost a pandemic as neglected engines knocked out their cams....we have all bought used vehicles with oil like black tar or dismantled rocker boxes full of tenacious sludge, all a consequence of lack of oil changes. This made me look more closely at oils and found that in the small print the API...American Petroleum Institute classified oils as either S, for service in petrol/gasoline passenger vehicles, or C (commercial?) indicating diesel engines. So a basic spec for an oil will say API SL/CF, the suffix letters used indicating a higher spec as to the blend and the tests the oil will meet. These have changed as the world of oil progresses to meet changes in engine design, materials. So suitable for both petrol and diesel motors.
Then we get manufacturer's own specs in an effort to corner their own niche market, and there are also military specs as well! Not to be outdone the European manufacturers have their own specs, ACEA standard followed by the classification with a typical format A3/B3. In all cases for API notation the higher up the alphabet you go, the better the oil blend.
Lots out there on the web, there is more to oil than you think but at the end of the day it's just good filtration and frequent oil changes that you need to do. The men in white coats have done the donkey work.
I lubed my petrol ASTRA on supermarket "diesel " oil for years, it was cheaper than the "petrol " oil, and the small print API spec was identical on both types......These days I still change oil and filter at half the maker's service interval and the top of the engine (twin cam VV type) looks brand new. Not like the old days of a black hole under the filler cap.
Swarfy.
-
Penrite have achieved a good reputation for their oils over the years (IMO!) and that 20-60 is probably the equivalent of the good old Duckams 20-50 used extensively back in the 60's, and I like the fact that its got a good dose of zinc, lots of oils removed that early on because of detriment to catalytic converters and they certainly dont advertise it in the oils now whereas Penrite is proud of it. Zinc is a really good additive to help stop scuffing on start up or on heavily loaded sliding parts like cams and followers....
Detergents are really good cleaning agents BUT you must have a good filter to clean the crap from the oil, ie NOT the sludge trap!