The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Worty on 08.04. 2025 11:50
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So, y'all know that I'd been bragging about my super memory when it comes to switching the oil on to stop wet sumping. *bright idea* Well, you've guessed it, I dragged the GF out the garage and, in my excitement to get her started FORGOT TO SWITCH THE OIL ON! *pull hair out* *pull hair out* *shh* *countdown* *whistle* Realised after about 15 seconds (no riding, heavy revving, etc, etc), and the exhausts were just starting to get off cold. *roll*
So, I've conveniently ignored all the warnings, overstated my memory abilities, and took a big tumble to eating humble pie ad nauseam! ::hh:: ::hh:: ::hh:: *bash* *sad* *red* *red* *red* *red*
Please do post every possible comment! Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew this would happen, but NOT to me with my MWAMS (Man With Amazing Memory Skills). *whistle* *whistle* :P
Interestingly enough, the reason for the faux pas was that I'd removed my 'memory aid' for the switch whilst prepping it for my Stafford ride. *roll* *roll* Never forgot it during riding season, but 7 months is a long time to forget. My new 'memory aid' is a flat magnet on the petrol tank filler with the word 'OIL' writ large in permanent marker and on the two petrol tap levers.
Still, my friends, a problem shared is a problem more people can laugh at. *doh* *doh* *doh*
PM'd Bergs with this and he says everything should be ok as nothing got hot. *good3*
I'm now bracing for impact.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ :-:
Oh, bike started first time though *smile*
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a berg build that started first kick *woo* , you lucky geeza mine took two kicks after the winter lay off, you naughty naughty boy and don't do that again *bash*
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a berg build that started first kick *woo* , you lucky geeza mine took two kicks after the winter lay off, you naughty naughty boy and don't do that again *bash*
It does start and run really well.
I'm going to my room with no tea *sad*
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Very lucky escape Worty, glad you got away with it after all that heartache and hard work.
We used to say in manufacturing circles "if it can happen it will happen"... i.e. you might get away with something 999.9 times out of a 1000 but eventually if it is possible to do - someone will do it...
Also you win the prize for the most emoji's used in a single post ever!
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BoN, if you can imagine a very p****d off person, who lives in P****d Off city, who went to P****d Off University, getting a doctorate in P****doffness, then that'll be me. After having a lot of beer, I went to bed to wake up at around 4.30am still p****d off, shaking my head, and feeling very annoyed with myself - couldn't get back to sleep after that.
More than forgetting, it was the fact that my confidence in having things in place to remind me failed - as you say, no system is foolproof. However, in addition to the above measures, I have now made a sign from the top of a food container with OIL written over it and placed over the choke lever. I'll then put the lid in my jacket pocket before the ride and replace it when I empty the pockets at the end of a ride (same pocket as the wallet, which never leaves my side on a ride).
Just goes to show, never overstate your abilities in public, and never fully rely on them in private!
Even now, I'd sooner do this than trust an anti-sumping valve. However, that mag cutout oil switch arrangement does seem a very, very good idea now. Maybe I can conjure up a similar thing on mine *doubt*
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Worty put your hand in the wallet let the moths out and buy a valve that won't let it start until the oil is turned on . job done, blinking messing with lids and things *pull hair out*
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Worty put your hand in the wallet let the moths out and buy a valve that won't let it start until the oil is turned on . job done, blinking messing with lids and things *pull hair out*
I have acquiesced and bought said item.😊 £24.46 from fleabay rather than the £60 from the Magneto Guys. *good3* Should serve as an additional anti-theft device as well, if anyone likely to nick it has any clue as to how it works at all (or ride it) - that is apart from picking it up and shoving it in a van. *razz* *dunno*
The moths were long dead Bergs. *wink2*
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So, I want to try to fit this switch in the same place as the old one - near the crankcase. As I understand it (not got the switch yet), if I wanted to save space, I'd have to remove the old adapter that screws into the crankcase and replace it with one that'll both screw into the crankcase and the new switch, then to the switch and flexi-pipe the other side. This is my understanding of what I've got in my head.
3/8" BSF male to screw into crankcase, 3/8" BSP male at the other end to screw into the switch - is there such an adapter? BSF adapters seem hard to come by.
The other side I'd need a 3/8" BSP male to screw into the switch, with a 1/4" BSP male to screw onto the flexi-pipe - these are readily available.
Any ideas welcome, or any suppliers I can get in touch with - no luck so far on t'internet. Of course, there are other solutions, but I wanted to keep the arrangement out of the way of my spin-on oil filter set up if possible.
I can cut the solid bit of the flexi-pipe up near the oil tank if necessary, then connect the two sides with oil hose and clamps. The switch does come with tails/spigots for that purpose. In this scenario, the switch comes with an extra earth wire as the rubber hose wouldn't allow for the switch body to be earthed (see explanation from the Magneto Guys on this).
Wot do y'all think??
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I would treat any thread into the crankcase with caution. The adaptors here are best left well alone. Sounds like you need a trip to your nearest hydraulic hose supplier, along with your bits.
BSP,BSF?,Metric,W.T.F. threads can all be involved, very easy to make an expensive error.
Swarfy.
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I wouldn’t fit one, but if I did it would be in a prominent accessible place.
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The penalty is to kick the bike over 40 times with the H.T. leads down your underpants.
Alternatively buy a SRM pump. seems to have stopped the wet sumping on mine
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The penalty is to kick the bike over 40 times with the H.T. leads down your underpants.
Alternatively buy a SRM pump. seems to have stopped the wet sumping on mine
SRM oil pump - £365
Switch - £25
I take your points, but no contest for me.
I'll take a closer look at the options (and space) and go from there.
The bike did a total of 261m to Stafford and back without missing a beat. This included a motorway/dual carriageway section of around 80m at a steady 65-70mph (indicated). No unpleasant bangs, knocks or noises (not even noisy tappets). I reckon I should fire her up with no oil supply more often. *whistle* *roll* *wink2* *pull hair out* *pull hair out* *beer* *beer* *beer*
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I hesitate to suggest the HT down the underpants but perhaps removing the plug lead on one side when parking up as a reminder could be a good plan. I have three old bikes and the RE Bullet will wet sump if left for too long but the A10 never does although I've never left it un started for more than a month or two. Always seems to me that letting a bike idle while it scavenges a crankcase full of oil is less of an issue than running it dry.
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I hesitate to suggest the HT down the underpants but perhaps removing the plug lead on one side when parking up as a reminder could be a good plan. I have three old bikes and the RE Bullet will wet sump if left for too long but the A10 never does although I've never left it un started for more than a month or two. Always seems to me that letting a bike idle while it scavenges a crankcase full of oil is less of an issue than running it dry.
Fair enough Slymo, but I would be concerned about hydraulic lock as the bike dumps the entire contents of the oil tank into the sump in only a few days at most. It's so bad that if I'm away for a couple of days and the bike isn't started, at least half the contents of the tank have disappeared (not onto the road, by the way). It's not always convenient to find a clean container and drain off the sump at the side of the road and, given the price of SRM pumps or alternative engine stripdown, a valve was the best way to go.
I had thought of unplugging the ht leads but, of course, you have to remember to do that too. At present, and in addition to my filler cap magnet and petrol taps having 'oil' written on them, I have a plastic lid with oil written on it that slips over the choke lever and a bungee that attaches to the kickstart and seat *ex* *ex*
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Hey Worty, what about doing something with the magneto kill (earth) switch. Keep your current oil valve and maybe just replace the "touch off" magneto earth switch on the handlebars with a permanent on/off (ignition!) switch down by your oil valve?? would that work?? *eek*
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Hey Worty, what about doing something with the magneto kill (earth) switch. Keep your current oil valve and maybe just replace the "touch off" magneto earth switch on the handlebars with a permanent on/off (ignition!) switch down by your oil valve?? would that work?? *eek*
Hmm, good idea, although just wondering if that'd work out more or less the same cost as the maggy switch thingy?
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The magneto cut out function linked to the on/off tap position is the reason for the higher price of this device compared to the simple tap from your local DIY store. With my ever penny pinching outlook it would be an exercise to link the tap position to a switch. Tap on, switch contacts open, magneto functions. Close the tap, no sparks. Even a spring blade opened by the tap lever position would do. Necessity being a mother etc. should be an easy project. Will also work as a crude anti theft device......
Swarfy.
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I used the magnetos guys cut out oil tap and its one of the few items I've bought that actually does what it says on the can. And at £50 not too expensive. The worst that can happen is getting sweaty kicking it over(yes I have done that *smile*) when I have forgotten about it.
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Mine is a similar arrangement to the Magneto Guys item, but half the price.
As someone suggested earlier, a good way to test the device after every run is to turn the tap off which should kill the engine.
These items are a really good back up device, but does not exclude the need for rider vigilance. For example, what if the maggy earth wire becomes disconnected or broken - the bike could then be started with the oil off. You could put this down to a 'Worty Worry', but it is possible (like me forgetting to put my oil reminders on the bike) *doh* ::hh:: *pull hair out* *pull hair out* *beer*
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Things happen. I had an oil pump fail first ride after an engine rebuild,lucky I only had to replace the mains bush. You just do the best you can
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i have the bri tie valve fitted to a lot of bikes fit and forget, just remember to bleed them whenever you drop the oil a minutes work fitted my first one in 1994
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i have the bri tie valve fitted to a lot of bikes fit and forget, just remember to bleed them whenever you drop the oil a minutes work fitted my first one in 1994
Again, 'remembering' to bleed the valve! The maggy switch valve I got off Ebay was the same as the Feked item, except £45 cheaper. The fella who was selling it bought it new and never fitted it, lucky for me!
Just a quick question folks, is it absolutely necessary to have the cone fit into the oil tank feed, or can you simply screw on a 1/4" swivel fitting. If so, it'll be the tank fitting to 3/8" BSP male into the valve body then 3/8" male to 1/4" male for the oil pipe to screw on to. Of course, with the latter fitting, I'll need a female cone to be on the 1/4" fitting to accommodate the male cone oil pipe.
Anyone spot a mistake?
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fit and forget,
Unfortunate expression, in relation to engine destruction taps.
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Worty,
I realize the goal here, besides stopping wet sumping, is to save money. I also realize that what I say here is not going to change your mind about using a valve, but I still think it is worth saying. Assuming you are having this serious wet-sumping issue due to a well-worn pump, this pump, while serving for now, would be delivering a worse-than-original oil supply. It would continue to wear and, at some point, cross the threshold between adequate and inadequte supply. The reason for an SRM pump should not just be to stop the wet sumping. While nice (my bike sat all winter without a noticeable drop in level), I think the more important feature is better oil delivery at higher pressure. If your pump (for oil on the bike, that is) is in it’s golden years, the cost for a new pump will seem trivial if the old one gives up the ghost.
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One more thing. Interested to hear if my hypothesis has some support from the group.
Worty,
I realize the goal here, besides stopping wet sumping, is to save money. I also realize that what I say here is not going to change your mind about using a valve, but I still think it is worth saying. Assuming you are having this serious wet-sumping issue due to a well-worn pump, this pump, while serving for now, would be delivering a worse-than-original oil supply. It would continue to wear and, at some point, cross the threshold between adequate and inadequte supply. The reason for an SRM pump should not just be to stop the wet sumping. While nice (my bike sat all winter without a noticeable drop in level), I think the more important feature is better oil delivery at higher pressure. If your pump (for oil on the bike, that is) is in it’s golden years, the cost for a new pump will seem trivial if the old one gives up the ghost.
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Appreciation to everyone for the helpful thoughts and suggestions - duly noted.
I get the comments about the condition of the oil pump, but tank return is excellent so I have few worries there. Also, even with a fooked engine, Bergs did comment that a lot of the original damage was probably caused by disintegration of the ATD fibre gear than oil starvation per se. I know that Bergs took a lot of time checking out the pump (and three other pumps I supplied to him) to find the best one for the bike.
One other thing to consider is that this is the 'last chance saloon' for this engine. The crank is on its last regrind, the bores are +60 and only had new rings on the rebuild, the valves have damage at the top of the stems and the valve seats are not perfect by any means. The timing side plain bearing was custom made by MWAS, and the crank doesn't run 100% true. Bergs communicated his concerns to me during the rebuild, and I accepted those on the basis that this may well be the last rebuild for this motor and could well outlast my riding days on it as well.
Had it been a far more looked after motor, and had plenty of life left in it in terms of rebuilds, I'd have certainly considered a new oil pump, etc, etc. Having said that, if it had been a better motor, it probably wouldn't be wet sumping in the first place *ex* *????*
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Worty apart from the srm pump HELPING to stop them wet sump the ball and spring play a major part in this problem as well and i think i mentioned your crankcases were in a bad state after being welded up. maybe i didn't hit a spare ball bearing hard enough to form a decent seat but looking down that little hole and the thread damage for the screw and the welding i knew this engine had seen a big hammer person and i thought if i hit it harder the case will break or it will smash the ball seat . as you say that engine is on it's last chance saloon can you remember the problem i had with crank locking up when the last top inside nut was nipped up? this because the cases were horribly distorted by welding. my cases on the berger build had to have the spigots welded up and machined to make the cases mate properly T&L engineering had to sort them because they were twisting when tightened up, this was before MWAS had done his new work shop and i had to blue things up with yours to find out where it was nipping up and scrape the edge of the bronze bearing. keep riding it as it is but don't forget to turn the oil on. *whistle*
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I forgot about the distorted cases Bergs, that was a real PITA now I remember (something else I forgot).
Just so there's no confusion mate, I'd no expectations of it not wet sumping after the build. I was just happy I'd got a very decent, well built, well engineered motor that runs really, really well. Covered 2300 miles on it now with no issues at all.
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Still probably in better condition than most of the old 25 quid nails still running in the late 1960s.