The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: BSARoadRocket on 08.07. 2012 07:35
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I'm interested in putting some sort of a modern in line oil filter onto my A10. I have seen adapters for sale that are supposed to be reproductions of those originally used on Norton Commandos and take a spin on oil filter. I've also seen oil filter kits that use the Triumph/BSA triple type oil filter that fits inside of a custom made canister. I assume the filter would have to be added to the return line. I would be very interested in any info from anybody who has any experience adding an oil filter to an A10 plunger or swing arm or any other vintage British bike for that matter that did not come with an oil filter. I would think there would be quite a few people out there who have added oil filters to their vintage bikes. If anybody is willing to share installation photos that would be a big help. I'm trying to gather ideas to help figure out how I'm going to add a filter to my A10.
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There's been a fair bit of discussion here about this, I know it can be a bit tedious, but if you search the forum you should find post and pics to get you started. It's one of those things that has a lot of options and personal choice.
cheers, duTch
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As Dutch mentions, a quick troll of the old posts the will reveal pics and wisdom
Some locations for the spin on filter include:
Inside he toolbox
Anchored to the ski slope (I've seen both horizontal mounted and vertical mounted)
Anchored to battery carrier plate (spin on horizontal with bottom of filter facing aft)
Anchored to the frame down by the swing arm
Anchored up front of frame by the down tubes (possibly gets a bit of cooling as well?)
There's a tubular style filter housing (from MAP I think )that can be mounted any where on the frame or athwart ships underneath the battery carrier/gbox area.
I guess one of the criteria beyond ensuring the filter is on the return line, the filters plumbing working properly and ease of access for filter change is how it looks or detracts from the look of the bike.
....a personal choice IMHO.
I chose to locate a custom made canister on the ski slope on my B33 (it's in full view on the bike) but have the norton style spin on hidden away in the toolbox on my A10.
Troll the old posts....there's a host of experiences there from guys far wiser than I.
HTH
S
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G'day Scotty,
got one on the A7 & A10 & A65. Just the sNorton type heads with HF153 spin on's. The '51 is mounted below and rear of the battery carrier, the '57 is where the ski slope should be and the '64 is on a bracket off the rear motor plates below the swing arm.
Cheers
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Old thread, and an old comment from me, thinking 'it'll be an easy task to re-install my Norton filter.....that's the easy bit. I figured out the best way to squeeze it in, but then figured I better chase up a new element BEFORE I start to change the oil *eek*... A Ryco Z93 from my local generic auto supplies has to be ordered in at a price of AU$45-48 bucks... *eek* *eek* *shh*
So my question is for Musko; do you source them locally ??
I did some research and found that they are the same as used in Gutzzi's after mine (apart from Citroen 2 CV that I've always known about).... but at 45+ Clams, it's cheaper to change the oil twice/thrice as often *pull hair out*.... *dunno* *beer*
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G'day duTch.
Most Ducks use'm http://www.hiflofiltro.com/catalogue/filter/hf153
Supercreap have'em http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/Product/Hiflo-Motorcycle-Oil-Filter-HF153/131305
Bit cheaper here https://www.motorcyclespareswarehouse.com.au/products/hiflo-hf153-oil-filter
K&N do a 153 as well got mine from RipEveryPoorCyclistOff for about $22.
Cheers
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Ta El Musko, I'll chase that up, but called ImaSupercreep, Ripperco, and Ortanobettabahn, which is the basis of my prices *eek*.
I forgot to add the links I found;
http://www.hiflofiltro.com/catalogue/filter/HF153 (http://www.hiflofiltro.com/catalogue/filter/HF153), and crossreference;
www.autopartoo.com/oem/partscrossinterchange/2314900 (http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/partscrossinterchange/2314900)
I'm starting to wonder if there's a better option....I first used this filter in the eighties, but someone came along and said it was hooked up wrong and I took it off *dunno*. I figured it'd be an easy fix now I know better, but..... *pull hair out*
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They are about 8GBP on Ebay here. https://goo.gl/RMy9jY
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Thanks Gb; Bookmarked....but.always have to consider postage on top- cheapest ain't always cheapest. $$$/££££ *countdown*
As it happens, my local Moto and Noturn sellers are literally next door neighbours, and only about a kilometre from where I'm being vocationally challenged tomorrow, so may as well go heckle them for some after-work entertainment, and see what they have to offer
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As fitted to my bike from Morgo. Nice and compact and easy to get at.
Homemade bracket fixed to the lower bolt which attaches the ski slope cover.
http://www.morgo.co.uk/15-morgo-oil-filter-kit
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BSARR,
Here are some links to posts showing several different approaches. The one with the pink spin-on (the last address) is my bike and is probably the one technique I would not recommend, as you can read in my post. The good things about it are that it works fine and is easy to change with relatively cheap cartridges (not sure "cartridges" is the right word, but you get it). The bad is that it is very visible (but looks much better now that I'm using a chromed cartridge).
Look closely at the versions by one our master builders, "Orabanda".
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=4776.msg32761#msg32761
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=867.msg5638#msg5638
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=5194.msg35417#msg35417
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11530.msg87755#msg87755
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=2913.msg59586#msg59586
Richard L.
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I'm still very happy with the filter location that I came up with. It's easily accessible, oil does not run all over the bike when changing filter units and it gets the breeze around it while riding so helps to cool the oil. My bike is a Plunger frame; due to engine/gearbox plates I guess this will probably not suit a swinging arm bike.
Quoting myself from November 2012
I bought a Norton 850 oil filter head and filter from Ebay intending to fit it in the toolbox of my plunger frame GF as others have done. However, the assembly was too wide to fit in the toolbox so I have mounted the filter on the rear mudguard behind the gearbox using nylock nuts.
Both parts are dull black so fairly inconspicious.
When mounted the filter head union stubs point towards the chain.
I've used Goodyear 8mm/5/16" ID reinforced rubber pipe to do the plumbing.
The oil feed pipe from oil tank to pump union pipes is as original.
The return from the pump is carried over the top of the gearbox, down between the vertical frame tube and the gearbox then gently curves around to meet the filter inlet stub.
The filter outlet pipe is routed tightly underneath the gearbox and then up behind the pump union assembly so it appears adjacent to the original metal pipes. It lines up nicely with the rocker feed banjo and oil tank connector.
Finished off with proper hose clamps it looks neat and not too obtrusive.
Here is a link to some photos of the set up.
http://tinyurl.com/cqbbnj7
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.... I flog B & S vanguard canisters for fitting into tight spaces.
They ar he shortest filter I have found that screws into the filter housing.
Kawakasi ( again mower ) filters are longer but a lot thinner.....
That's good to know Trev, I'll chase up that B&S. And if that doesn't happen I'll try Chaterlea John's idea from;
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11530.msg87755#msg87755 (http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11530.msg87755#msg87755)
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I'm interested in putting some sort of a modern in line oil filter onto my A10. I have seen adapters for sale that are supposed to be reproductions of those originally used on Norton Commandos and take a spin on oil filter. I've also seen oil filter kits that use the Triumph/BSA triple type oil filter that fits inside of a custom made canister. I assume the filter would have to be added to the return line. I would be very interested in any info from anybody who has any experience adding an oil filter to an A10 plunger or swing arm or any other vintage British bike for that matter that did not come with an oil filter. I would think there would be quite a few people out there who have added oil filters to their vintage bikes. If anybody is willing to share installation photos that would be a big help. I'm trying to gather ideas to help figure out how I'm going to add a filter to my A10.
Attached a pic of mine, a so called "commando" filter housing, cheap to buy, also cheap replacement filters, it uses unmodified standard bsa oil pipes, and an easy to make bracket bolted to the gearbox top bolt, it wobbles around a bit but the brackets has not cracked so far after several years. It's not a "hidden" solution obviously but I think being horizontal it looks a bit more like it could be original.......
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Probably the best and most cost effective mod I've made t't bike. Fitted new about 26 yrs ago and bought from Unity equipe, manx and triton bolt on goodie shop. Ive just had a look at their catalogue and they still do it. Its been running with citroen 2CV filters and never had a problem.
Ive tried to show the rudimentary bkt I made to take the two tapped holes of the filter housing.
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If you are on the continent the CV2 filters are fine, but we did not get the CV2 down here so it is not a popular, thus cheap filter.
The mower filters are $10 a pot from me + postage at cost.
If you are coming to the All British I can bring you a carton full if you like ( 12).
I think a full carton goes around $ 20 postage but a single filter is $ 9 postage but it has been a while since I posted any so I will have to check.
Not trying to advertise just help a fellow bike rider.
They are Champion filters made in the USA not junk from China like a lot on evilbay because I have to warrant the filters and the mower services.
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Just make extra sure that the oil lines are securely attached to the filter housing. I thought mine were, but several thousand miles later I found out that in fact they were not.
The filter housing I used came from either RGM or Norvil, can't remember which, and the pipe attachments were short lengths of smooth tubing. Not really adequate for hot oil and vibration.
None of my bikes now sport external oil filters. I have new respect for the original factory setup and regular oil changes.
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Probably the best and most cost effective mod I've made t't bike. Fitted new about 26 yrs ago and bought from Unity equipe, manx and triton bolt on goodie shop. Ive just had a look at their catalogue and they still do it. Its been running with citroen 2CV filters and never had a problem.
Ive tried to show the rudimentary bkt I made to take the two tapped holes of the filter housing.
Interesting paint scheme *smile* I've not seen many if any army style ones, how about a full size pic and history in the intro/pic section? Nice ignition conversion also?
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Thanks for everyones input, (especially Richard for taking so much time to find those links- Only one was really relevant though) but my query was really only regarding availability options of replacement filters, as filter location is decided as per pics, and is on my Plunger model....so swing arm tips just don't work- thanks but sorry *dunno2*
GB- I did originally have mine in a similar place as yours (see pic #2), but that doesn't work for me this time. I started to make a custom toolbox based on the shape of what I believe to be a rigid toolbox that I bought at a swap, but its bottom front corner is where the filter was before, attached to the mudguard, . I needed the toolbox to house the battery, but only made it as far as functionality stage- works for me....and there's a bit of real estate behind the battery that's just a perfect size for the filter (who needs tools *dunno* *shh* *bash*).
Trevor, I did some research but the results showed B&S filters with 3/4"x 16 threads and mine is 16mm x1.5 (M16) I'll keep that in mind for later, but today the aforesaid happened ....where I'm being vocationally challenged tomorrow,......
, challenged me enough to no longer be there >one day was a challenge, two broke the camel<, so had the day to chase around and ended up at the Bike shops, where I spoke to Jill who works there but was next door tending to Tom at the Gutzzi shop, and she said they sometimes have the Champion ones but wasn't sure this time, but I ended up with a $19 filter, but wasn't until I opened the box I realized it to be an 'Emgo' product....has anyone had experience with these??
It's 10mm shorter @ ~67mm, see pic #3? which is ideal- will save me removing the whole deal for oil change, but no big deal either...reckon I'll give it a go, hopefully can't be worse than no filter *eek*.
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The local Brit bike shop supplied an Emgo filter for the Commando a few years ago. While installing it I noticed some shiney loose bits down inside the element. It turned out to be metal swarf from the thread cutting operation!!
That may have been a one in a million problem, like the bottle of Coke with a rock inside, but I don't use Emgo filters anymore.
Glen
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I've been using Emgo filters, (same size as yours duTch) supplied by Feked.com.
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Interesting.
I have 3 Norton / Triumph filter housing all threaded 3/4 x 16 NP ( same as BSPP )
Should have occurred to me that a CV-2 filter would have a metric thread.
Cant do any thing in metric other than 20 x 1.5 ( Honda & Kawakasi ).
The Emgo filters were made by Champion ( same as the ones I get ) but I think they now come from China.
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Hi Dutch and All,
I posted recently on a similar thread on how I have gotten round the problem of 16mm threads on the filter head limiting the available
filter options
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11530.msg87757#msg87757
Link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-Galvanised-Reducers-20mm-16mm-suitable-for-Conduit-BA4712016G-/172597195086
Such an adaptor should bee available readily from your decent local electrical factors
Then fit any readily available 20mm thread filter, I am using a Peugeot / Renault, "Coopers Z1277"
John
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Thanks for everyones input, (especially Richard for taking so much time to find those links- Only one was really relevant though) but my query was really only regarding availability options of replacement filters,
Dutch,
Once again we've crossed beams mate (think Ghost Busters, I know you haven't seen it, so "crossed rifles" will work). I thought I was responding to BSARoadRocket ("BSARR" in my post) but I'm glad you got something from one of the links. Having gone back and read your posts in this topic, I can see how it got confusing.
Richard L.
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Yo Richard- no probs, I forgot I stole someone else's gig. *smile* 'BSARR' hasn't been back anyway *dunno*
John - I did note your idea on page 1 so didn't double up, it does sound like an easy one- until I get to the " I am using a Peugeot / Renault, "Coopers Z1277" " bit....I did spot any Z1277's in my local 'Snoopercrap' store yesterday, but they do have the HF 153 of Muskies suggest, but made in Thailand *conf2*.... then my eyes went spazz-modic... *eek*
GB- Yep had a look at that but couldn't see the brand in the one I looked at; thing is, the exchange rate+ postage makes it unviable, but thanks; note that Halfordshave a " Champion Motorcycle Oil Filter H301 £7 ", but doesn't show thread size (that I can see)
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/motorcycle-parts-manuals/champion-motorcycle-oil-filter-h301 (http://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/motorcycle-parts-manuals/champion-motorcycle-oil-filter-h301)
Trev; my thread gauge wasn't comfortable with 16tpi, but close(ish) and 14 was way off- 15tpi might be closer- but I doubt that even exists....if I can hunt down an old one I'll try it for fit.
This is the result i was looking at for "Oil Filter for Briggs & Stratton 492932 / 83-013" ;
https://www.oregonpartsstore.com/83-013.html (https://www.oregonpartsstore.com/83-013.html)
So anyway after a hunt or two on the 'nets', it seems the Champion number to use is H101, so reckon I'll chase up some of those, and that comes from discussion I found on a Norton forum(s).
Seems there's plenty of options in the US and EU/Brexit zones but not here... *pull hair out*
I'll see what I come up with and let yezknow *beer* *beer*
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Andover Norton sells filters for the
Norton housing @ 4.95 GBP.
Glen
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I had Frank Diehl of Classic Cycle Works install mine. When changing the filter, puncture with a screw driver while holding a drain funnel underneath and there will not be a mess in the tool box.
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Where's your voltage regulator?
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Yo Richard- no probs, I forgot I stole someone else's gig. *smile* 'BSARR' hasn't been back anyway *dunno*
John - I did note your idea on page 1 so didn't double up, it does sound like an easy one- until I get to the " I am using a Peugeot / Renault, "Coopers Z1277" " bit....I did spot any Z1277's in my local 'Snoopercrap' store yesterday, but they do have the HF 153 of Muskies suggest, but made in Thailand *conf2*.... then my eyes went spazz-modic... *eek*
GB- Yep had a look at that but couldn't see the brand in the one I looked at; thing is, the exchange rate+ postage makes it unviable, but thanks; note that Halfordshave a " Champion Motorcycle Oil Filter H301 £7 ", but doesn't show thread size (that I can see)
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/motorcycle-parts-manuals/champion-motorcycle-oil-filter-h301 (http://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/motorcycle-parts-manuals/champion-motorcycle-oil-filter-h301)
Trev; my thread gauge wasn't comfortable with 16tpi, but close(ish) and 14 was way off- 15tpi might be closer- but I doubt that even exists....if I can hunt down an old one I'll try it for fit.
This is the result i was looking at for "Oil Filter for Briggs & Stratton 492932 / 83-013" ;
https://www.oregonpartsstore.com/83-013.html (https://www.oregonpartsstore.com/83-013.html)
So anyway after a hunt or two on the 'nets', it seems the Champion number to use is H101, so reckon I'll chase up some of those, and that comes from discussion I found on a Norton forum(s).
Seems there's plenty of options in the US and EU/Brexit zones but not here... *pull hair out*
I'll see what I come up with and let yezknow *beer* *beer*
Been a while but I have got to the bottom ( I think ) of the oil filter thread paradox.
The Emgo unit sold in the USA, of which I have 3 is threaded BSP ( actually it is unified pipe but they are just about identical )
The Norton unit Shane has is threaded Metric.
So it looks like there are two identical looking filter housings with different threads.
For a while I thought I was going mad as I had shifted a lot of Briggs filters down here and no one has complained that they did not fit.
I have a filter head labled Triumph & another identical one labled EMGO , both imperial.
Sorry if I have been the cause of confusion.
OTOH when I get the next batch in to flog I will be able to warn customers .
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No probs Trev., I'd say I'm in as deep as you *smile*, and i did have more of a look and found that the M16 x 1.5 is very close to something like UNF? @16TPI? OR NPPT or something I'll have a look at when i stager back to the Chaparral later. ..or is it the Ponderosa *conf*
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No probs Trev., I'd say I'm in as deep as you *smile*, and i did have more of a look and found that the M16 x 1.5 is very close to something like UNF? @16TPI? OR NPPT or something I'll have a look at when i stager back to the Chaparral later. ..or is it the Ponderosa *conf*
Forget most of that- the 5/8" UNF 16 TPI has magically ceased to exist, also NPPT turns out I was thinking NPS- not either..... *dunno* *dunno*
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These are 3/4 x 16 American pipe, not 5/8
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Sorry Trev- got my numbers mixedup as usual- I think it was Saturday night out, shoulda been concentrating on other things *eek*
Think I best quit while not so far behind the eight.... *conf*
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For anyone using the Norton oil filter head and needing the Citroen 2CV spin on filter - I've just bought some of the Borg and Beck version reference BFO 4180. They are painted black and the only text is on an easy to peel off sticker, so look reasonable if the filter is visible.
Ebay link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-2CV-0-4-Oil-Filter-63-to-75-B-B-5427744-5427744T-5436642-5487068-5491083/332570918938?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
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Put mine in the toolbox.
Filters off ebay.
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Put mine in the toolbox.
Can't get that filter head in the Plunger toolbox.
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Greybeard,
I also found that size does matter; I had to custom make a head, to get it to fit in plunger & rigid frame toolboxes..
Takes a standard element however.
Richard
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I've just put my oil filter under the swinging arm. Used a B&S spin on (2"x 2 3/8") p/n 795990. Copied Orabanda and machined an alloy adaptor. A little bit of fiddling and bracketry but i'm pleased with the result.
IVO
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For anyone using the Norton oil filter head and needing the Citroen 2CV spin on filter - I've just bought some of the Borg and Beck version reference BFO 4180. They are painted black and the only text is on an easy to peel off sticker, so look reasonable if the filter is visible.
Ebay link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-2CV-0-4-Oil-Filter-63-to-75-B-B-5427744-5427744T-5436642-5487068-5491083/332570918938?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Those are currently out of stock. Feked have black filters in stock.
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Put mine under the carb drip tray its flexible enough on the rubber hoses to turn it over and replace the filter once i remove the bracket .
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I think that 20/50 is so cheap that regular oil changes make a filter unnecessary.
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I think that 20/50 is so cheap that regular oil changes make a filter unnecessary.
Easier to change a filter than clean a sludge trap …. Spent too much money on my rebuild to not run a filter.
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My machine is 64 years old and has +.020 pistons and one undersize on the big ends. That by my assessment with modern detergent oil replaced every 3000 miles minimum gives me at least another 64 years of gentle motoring and my bike is in completely original spec. I know that many will disagree but I see very little point in belts and solid state electronics and aftermarket gewgaws on an old machine. I reserve the right to change my mind if my knees give out and I need an electric start obviously.
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Oil circulating in an engine is much like water in a river - sediment drops out when the flow slows down so, in theory, contaminants in the oil should drop out in the oil tank. The other place, as we know, is the sludge trap (which acts as a centrifuge). What worries me about using detergent oils in old engines is that they're designed to keep contaminants in suspension so they can be removed by the oil filter. With no filter fitted, the muck keeps circulating without dropping out, acting like a grinding paste between oil changes. Presumably the centrifuge will still perform (I recall a certain make of car, Fiat I believe, which used a centrifuge on the crank as its sole filter) so that should remove some of the contaminants. That said, I'd rather clean out the tank now and then rather than make regular visits to the 'sludge trap'.
Perhaps someone with a bare crankcase on the bench could advise of the feasibility of making access to the crank through the timing side, to enable the sludge trap to be serviced in situ? Assuming, of course, no-one has gone overboard staking the plug. Frankly, I don't see the need for that.