The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Gearbox, Clutch, Primary => Topic started by: Pim on 01.10. 2014 17:17

Title: I've struk oil!
Post by: Pim on 01.10. 2014 17:17
Hey guy's,

While removing the primary cover for an oil change, and a new gasket.
I noticed that after draining and removing the cover there was a constant stream of oil
coming from the screw hole where the oil level screw goes... it seems strange to me that there is an direct
connection between the cater and the primary... with all the different oil and such.

So who can enlighten me here?

In the pic is the hole I'm talking about.

Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.10. 2014 18:26
the three front primary case screws (the larger ones) are tapped into holes drilled through into the crankcase.
So if there's sufficient oil in the crankcase it will escape via the bottom hole as you have found.
Also to be aware of is to use the correct length of screw as too long ones will foul the crank web.

Cater? is this Dutch for crankcase, my education continues  *smile*
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Pim on 01.10. 2014 19:02
Aah I was too quick to judge, I thought it was the level hole, but indeed this is the big screw hole.
Thanks for clearing that up.

And for your education you shouldn't look to me, because that should have read "caRter".
and while thinking about it it's the wrong name. I indeed meant the crank case, an oil carter is the same as an oil pan.
I thought is was an universal name:)

Thanks for the info! 
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Topdad on 01.10. 2014 20:07
Hi pim, while you have the primary case off have a look at the reverse side ,you'll see towards the clutch end 2 castings insider the case with a gaps in the lowest is the drain the slightly higher is the level plug mark the nd in red so after 6 mths (  longer ) when you drain again you'll know which is which regards Bobh
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: morris on 01.10. 2014 21:57
I indeed meant the crank case, an oil carter is the same as an oil pan.
I thought is was an universal name:)

One should use the correct terms, but for us foreigners it's sometimes confusing. Americans use the word "carter" a term we also use in Dutch, but the British use the word "sump" (which I personally like more. It sounds as "dump", a place where all the rubbish ends up *smile*). And there's more of that; gas tank or petrol tank, fender or mudguard etc. *conf*
And I'm not even talking about Australian English here *countdown*
If you've got a Haynes manual, on the last pages there's some British-American translations. Fun to read!
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Pim on 01.10. 2014 22:35
Good Idea Topdad! I just read in the original manual that they were originally red?

All those terms, you live and you learn... but correct usage of them is handy dandy.
Am I correct in saying that the sump on the crankcase on an a7 is the small square 2" by 2" really shallow bucket? (i use bucket for an lack of better term)

In other news:

While tidying up the edges of the primary case I found an connection from the case to the frame that looks like it should be connected.
But it isn't in my case... I guess it should be, but there is quite a lot of space between the two.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: duTch on 01.10. 2014 23:53

 Hiya Pim, the sump is simply just the bottom of the crankcase. The square thing is the sump cover plate, or if you like, you can call it what you like, and if there's a degree of logic and it's catchy might just be adopted into common use. ... *smile*
 If the gap is what I think you mean, there should be something on there, just add washers to that thickness, so there's no stress in or out when bolt is tightened up
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: chaterlea25 on 01.10. 2014 23:55
Hi Pim,
That gap varies from bike to bike,
Refit the front screws where the oil leaked out with temporary spacers that simulate the outer cover being in place, then check the gap again
use a stack of washers to fill the gap and then a bolt and nut to secure

It is very important not to strain the case,

In your photo the primary chain looks very tight ???
About 12mm up and down play at the tightest point is correct

HTH
John


Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Greybeard on 02.10. 2014 10:21
Pim, What software are you using to add graphics to your pictures? It's very good!
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Pim on 07.10. 2014 15:13
Thanks for all the tips and knowledge, I also noticed that the rear chain is just about to touch the primary case. but that might be becouse the backend isn't bolted to the frame. I'll check there is no tention on the case.

The images are edited with Photoshop, but you can use the gimp(linux) aswell, best of all it's freeeee!
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: a10 gf on 07.10. 2014 16:44
For any quick fix & editing of images I am (as always) recommending Photofiltre Free (http://photofiltre.free.fr/download_en.htm). Small, fast & easy to learn. Arrows etc and any text+font+color+shadow etc no problem.

And sorry for the offtopic ( > Forum Info & Help (http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?board=15.0) is open for pc-stuff discusions).
But sticking to topic somehow, see picture  ;)


Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: RichardL on 07.10. 2014 17:48
Pim,

With the inner primary cover already in place, you might be made crazy by trying to get your washer stack in place between the frame and the tab on the primary cover. What I did was to measure, with my caliper depth gauge, approximatly how thick the stack must be. Then, I took some cyanoacrylate (super-glue) and glued the stack together so that it could be inserted from behind in one piece. It took a couple of tries to get the right stack height, but if you just use only a tiny amount of glue, washers can be separated from the stack easily enough to make the adjustment.

Richard L.
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: trevinoz on 07.10. 2014 20:50
Some of us just machine a spacer and fit it!    *lol*
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: RichardL on 07.10. 2014 20:54
Some of us aren't blessed with lathes. *fight*   *smile*
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: wilko on 07.10. 2014 23:26
A piece of water pipe cut to length.
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: RichardL on 08.10. 2014 02:33
I think the washers are better than the pipe because you get more surface area in contact with both surfaces, and the I.D. closely matches the O.D. of the bolt. Then, if you're talking steel pipe, you need a pipe cutter most of us don't have for getting a truly square cut. (Yes, I know how to use a hack saw and fairly well, but it doesn't match a disc cutter for square.) Of course, Trev has volunteered to turn spacers for whomever sends him the required dimension, so Bob's your uncle!  >:D *lol* (Or, Wilko, did you just bring up pipe because you wanted to see how far into the deep end I would dive?)

Richard L.
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Pim on 08.10. 2014 09:33
Wow so everyone has this gap? I can't imagine that it's a design feature, or what it should be for?

Luckily I have been granted the luxury of a lathe, So I guess I'll turn a piece of allu into a spacer:)
Also i rather like to use aluminum because of it's soft nature, any small errors will be "corrected" while fitting :D
Also also I don't like to use small surfaces(like pipe(still thankful for the suggestion wilko)) because it'll press right trough the paint.

I've checked the chain tension and there is a wiggle possible without too much force applied so i think i'm good there:)

Cheers!
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: bsa-bill on 08.10. 2014 11:04
Quote
Wow so everyone has this gap?

well no, I've two A10s one with gap one without, even very small tolerance on engine plates, studs and castings will result in differing gaps
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: wilko on 09.10. 2014 00:05
I should have said a piece of pipe with two wide washers each side if your stuck in the middle of nowhere with no lathe.. But of course turning up a piece of aluminium is more subtle.
Title: Re: I've struk oil!
Post by: Rocket Racer on 19.11. 2014 21:32
As the primary chaincase inner is only otherwise supported by the three front bolts and is very long it is very susceptible to bowing inwards.
All the ones I've looked at are bowed to some extent.
This rear support is worth attaching just to stiffen it up.
also worth using the chain as a rough reference point to see how bowed when the outer cover is off. Not typically worth trying to correct unless its all coming apart as it typically serves its purpose and the outer cover typically helps pull it flat(ter).
I run my dry race covers unsupported.