The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: nimrod650 on 15.01. 2016 19:41

Title: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 15.01. 2016 19:41
has anyone found the need for a side stand warning light i have brake light switch to prop stand and mag cut out wont start if  its down
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 16.01. 2016 04:18
So what if you want to start the bike and let it warm up while you put the riding gear on? And when you've been at the pub for a few hours, much safer to kick her while on the side stand with a wobbly boot!!
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Peter in Aus on 16.01. 2016 09:24
Sounds like a good idea to me and if u have had a few beers u should not be on the bike!
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 16.01. 2016 09:37
Yes I (and others) wonder how I've survived so long!! *bash* *beer* *bash* *beer* *bash*
I was pulled over by a cop on a BMW for about a dozen defects. He didn't book me but shook his head saying it (Suzuki 250 twin 2 stroke) was a death trap. He mounted his bike and turned left 50 yards up the road and pole volted to the ground. *wave* as I rode past. Yes we've all done it, haven't we?
As we all get older it is easier to kick start'em on the side stand.
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: KiwiGF on 16.01. 2016 09:47
My modern triumph  *pull hair out* has all the mod cons including engine cut out when the stand is down and gear engaged .....and yes it has saved me a few times......so of course these things are useful! But I don't have a side stand on my a10....but if you have.....yes it would be useful........
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 16.01. 2016 13:05
You will not notice the warning light when it matters.

The cut-out connection is a gimmick which can stop your engine. The fewer of them you have, the better.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 16.01. 2016 18:33
You will not notice the warning light when it matters.

The cut-out connection is a gimmick which can stop your engine. The fewer of them you have, the better.
if the prop stand came down for any reason while riding i would want it to stop the engine
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 16.01. 2016 18:44
You will not notice the warning light when it matters.

The cut-out connection is a gimmick which can stop your engine. The fewer of them you have, the better.
i wonder why all new bikes have to have them ??
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 16.01. 2016 19:34
Not a problem with a button start. Honda Leadwings have an airbag, do we want one of those too!!
Starting my 10.5:1 cafe without support is very difficult.
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 16.01. 2016 20:46
Not a problem with a button start. Honda Leadwings have an airbag, do we want one of those too!!
Starting my 10.5:1 cafe without support is very difficult.
Cheers
an air bag handy if you fall off leaving the pub?cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 16.01. 2016 22:52
i wonder why all new bikes have to have them ??
[/quote]

At a quick guess- because of some stupid regulation in California?

Maybe you haven't heard how much trouble those switches cause.

All I'm doing is stating my opinion. I'm not particularly trying to persuade you of anything. Feel free to have some other opinion and infest your bike with interlocks.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: a10gf on 17.01. 2016 12:53
Have survived the forgotten side stand a few times, only luck. Just a switch to a bright red light (or horn!) would be fine (circuit connected trough some compression switch under the seat (as seen on car seat passenger side regarding airbag :O)

The T900 I had did 'warn' about sidestand down by cutting the ignition when put into gear.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: metalflake11 on 17.01. 2016 14:38
i wonder why all new bikes have to have them ??

At a quick guess- because of some stupid regulation in California?

Maybe you haven't heard how much trouble those switches cause.

All I'm doing is stating my opinion. I'm not particularly trying to persuade you of anything. Feel free to have some other opinion and infest your bike with interlocks.
[/quote]

Trying to get to the outside lane on a motorway split, a mates engine cut out due to one. He nearly copped an articulated lorry up his rear. Six months later another 'failsafe' switch caused an intermittent shutting down of the ignition..........He got rid!
File with anti wet sump valves.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: a10gf on 17.01. 2016 14:50
Trying to get to the outside lane on a motorway split, a mates engine cut out due to one. He nearly copped an articulated lorry up his rear. Six months later another 'failsafe' switch caused an intermittent shutting down of the ignition..........He got rid!  File with anti wet sump valves.

That's why I mentionned red warning light, not ignition related. Or connect to horn :O)
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: metalflake11 on 17.01. 2016 16:49
Trying to get to the outside lane on a motorway split, a mates engine cut out due to one. He nearly copped an articulated lorry up his rear. Six months later another 'failsafe' switch caused an intermittent shutting down of the ignition..........He got rid!  File with anti wet sump valves.

That's why I mentioned red warning light, not ignition related. Or connect to horn :O)

Certainly a lot safer!........... The incident I mentioned was on a modern bike, and the switch was factory fitted. The sidestand was up, but the switch failed.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 17.01. 2016 17:28
i wonder why all new bikes have to have them ??
infest your bike with interlocks where did that come from

At a quick guess- because of some stupid regulation in California?

Maybe you haven't heard how much trouble those switches cause.

All I'm doing is stating my opinion. I'm not particularly trying to persuade you of anything. Feel free to have some other opinion and infest your bike with interlocks.
[/quote]
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: RichardL on 17.01. 2016 17:55
At a quick guess- because of some stupid regulation in California?


Well, I'm from California, so I understand what TT is talking about but curious how TT knows.

I am pretty sure I am not being serious by showing the following option, but it would work with no ill effects.

Richard L.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: bsa-bill on 17.01. 2016 18:07
Quote
Well, I'm from California, so I understand what TT is talking about but curious how TT knows.

can't speak for TT but I've visited California (bus tour), courier informed us East coast Americans call Californians - Flakies - not sure of the spelling  but kind of self explanatory, however I liked the ones we met , polite and courteous 
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: metalflake11 on 17.01. 2016 19:52
Maybe some sort of optical devices coupled to an onboard computer could be used?............ Before setting off, the computer could be programmed to point the optical devices at the sidestand and proceed from there.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: RichardL on 17.01. 2016 20:07
Yes, there are infinite Rube Goldberg possibilities.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: groily on 17.01. 2016 22:12
Something to be said for a sidestand with its spring so disposed that it automatically retracts when weight is taken off (AMC quirk, maybe others).  Plenty to be said against too, as in the hassle of  keeping them firmly down while you get off the thing. But, on balance (if you can retain it!) not a bad thing. Better than extra wires I'd have thought, and no hint of Nanny nagging.

Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Greybeard on 17.01. 2016 22:43
I've visited California (bus tour), courier informed us East coast Americans call Californians - Flakies - not sure of the spelling  but kind of self explanatory, however I liked the ones we met , polite and courteous

About ten years ago my wife and I spent a month touring California, (in a car). I second the feelings about the Californians we met; very friendly people. We particularly enjoyed San Francisco.  *smile*
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: RichardL on 17.01. 2016 23:30
Well, I hope the friendly quotient didn't go up just because I left.

Richard L.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Clive54bsa on 18.01. 2016 00:13
Being an Ex Pat and living in So California for over 35 years, and write a newsletter for the BSAOCSC called "The Piled Arms", I can tell you with experience what we do here.
1st check the side stand spring to see if it's in good serviceable use,
then check the bolt going through the prop stand to see if a it's in a serviceable condition and be tight enough to not make the stand sloppy.
Then, as you pull away, a quick glance down to your left side to check if the side stand is fully retracted, and "Bob's yer Uncle", no further problems.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 18.01. 2016 00:47
Went on a club ride yesterday. As I moved off I heard a few "Hay Musky"s. Yep she was down and only a few yards from a "left turn Clive".
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Clive54bsa on 18.01. 2016 01:02
Muksrat, I mean't my comment as "tongue in cheek" as it were. Of course there are all sorts of mods we can make to these old bikes to make them "safer".
But I think I'd put disc brakes, wider wheels, turn signals, better suspension and numerous other modern safer improvements before I'd consider a prop stand position kill switch. After all, isn't that why we ride these old uncomplicated bikes.
All the best mate, love your "Exhaust Notes" thanks
Clive
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 18.01. 2016 01:16
Yesterdays forgetfulness was on the 1100 honda. It has a rubber thing that flops down when the weight is taken off the stand. This will hit the road first and fling the stand up. Still gives you a bit of a shake.
I like the design of the HD stands. When their down and the weight is on they lock so if the bike rolls forward the stand stays put.
The only way to make my bikes safer is to not let me on them!!
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Clive54bsa on 18.01. 2016 01:24
Point Well Taken Muskrat.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Rocket Racer on 18.01. 2016 03:11
I managed to miss much of this thread but as an ex owner of modern bikes with no main stand, a sidestand kill switch was the first thing I'd disconnect so I could warm the bike up on the sidestand or likewise stop and get off without the motor stopping.

The best wiring is no wiring  *whistle*
My B33 has working electrics for the time it takes to get its warrant of fitness every 6 months and then the battery goes back in another bike. I rely on hand signals for everything between those dates  *whistle* including the horn.

Now talking of California (lovely people I'm sure) I read recently the emissions controls were the primary reason the BSA group designed the OIF frames which have a proper airbox. A lot of people have criticized the group for investing in those frames when the engines were getting long in the tooth but the short answer is they had to for the American market.
And then there's the famous dove grey colour which was to not even remotely meet   *bash* the american request for silver frames for '71

Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 18.01. 2016 04:33
It must be that a lot more tree hugers live in California as they have the strictest emission laws. Lots of labels have "not for use in California".
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Greybeard on 18.01. 2016 08:55
I like the design of the HD stands. When their down and the weight is on they lock so if the bike rolls forward the stand stays put.
That sounds like they are more dangerous than a stand that might flip up when hitting the road.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: jachenbach on 18.01. 2016 15:00
I've had bikes with sidestands that came up when unweighted ('74 Ducati 750GT and BMW R90S), bikes with cutout switches (both my Guzzis) and bikes with no sidestand safety feature. IMO, the most important component lies between one's ears.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: bsa-bill on 18.01. 2016 15:12
Quote
the most important component lies between one's ears.

so true,


 however remembering to switch it on at times is ......................................... *doh*
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: muskrat on 18.01. 2016 18:26
GB, as soon as weight is taken off it will work as normal, spring back with a bit of toe action.
Cheers
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 18.01. 2016 19:56
Take the weight of the bike off the sidestand, kick the stand up with your left heel.

Easy habit to develop.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: RichardL on 18.01. 2016 21:32
Remove side stand. Use only center stand. So many options, so little time. *smile*
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: Rocket Racer on 18.01. 2016 21:37
Remove side stand. Use only center stand. So many options, so little time. *smile*

Sidecars don't need either stand! fit a third wheel  *wink2*
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: bsa-bill on 19.01. 2016 10:10
Quote
Sidecars don't need either stand! fit a third wheel

Welllllll now I've only once rode in a sidecar, the third wheel certainly adds a third dimension (and seems to operate in one as well) *smile* *smile*
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 19.01. 2016 17:21
try riding an outfit  on your own with no passenger to hold the third wheel down then it becomes interesting turning left
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: bsa-bill on 19.01. 2016 17:24
hence the Breeze block   *smiley4*
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: chaterlea25 on 19.01. 2016 19:59
HI All,
I have been thinking a bit about the original topic/idea
On my modern the sidestand is interlocked with the ignition and neutral switch
It has happened that I have set off on the A10 without kicking up the propstand, luckily without incident  :o

So a warning that will not interfere with the ignition ?
I'm thinking of a switch on the stand in series with a tilt switch that would either activate a loud buzzer or the bikes horn,
It might need a time delay so that when you pick up the bike off the side stand it would give a few seconds to return the sidestand ??

John
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: a10gf on 19.01. 2016 20:25
So a warning that will not interfere with the ignition ?
I'm thinking of a switch on the stand in series with a tilt switch that would either activate a loud buzzer or the bikes horn,
It might need a time delay so that when you pick up the bike off the side stand it would give a few seconds to return the sidestand ??

Seat... > http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=10227.msg75752#msg75752
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: chaterlea25 on 19.01. 2016 20:37
Hi A10gf
Seat switches on ride on mowers give lots of trouble !!
Thats why I was going for a tilt switch,
A sounder is a lot more effective than a light

My 2 cents worth
John
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: RichardL on 19.01. 2016 21:15
Another option is to avoid left turns.

Uhhh, John. I think your idea may be a variant of my idea with the thermal switch, earlier in the thread. Since I wasn't really being serious, I also thought of a microphone close to the silencer (or anywhere on the bike, really) that closed a relay in series with the side-stand switch when SPL crossed a set threshold.

Richard L.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: a10gf on 19.01. 2016 21:48
The basics that most seems to agree upon:
-Sound or light warning. Keeping ignition out of it (security in case of malfunction).
-2 switches in series, 1 closing with sidestand down, and 1 in series 'somewhere' to actuate it.

Am still thinking a well made seat switch would be good (am guessing riding off standing is quite seldom), or alternatively a switch closing when clutch lever is pulled in (switch at either lever or gearbox actuating arm).

Keep the ideas coming, great topic :O)
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: RichardL on 19.01. 2016 22:03
I like it. A switch at the clutch lever could easily be rigged to honk the horn. Oddly, this is starting to sound practical.

Richard L.
Title: Re: side stand warning light
Post by: nimrod650 on 21.01. 2016 19:05
the topic i started has been interesting to say the least i would just like to say the brake switch i fitted to mag cut out has served me well for several years with no problems regarding starting with the prop stand down something i never do but thinking about it an anti.theft device as well