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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: nimrod650 on 15.02. 2016 20:36

Title: police cameras
Post by: nimrod650 on 15.02. 2016 20:36
what are your views regarding the police in n /yorkshire hiding in horse boxes and tractors  with speed cameras to catch you out is it  money making or safety related bearing in mind the horsebox and tractor are on hire to them  *????*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 15.02. 2016 21:26
Why were you speeding?
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Angus on 15.02. 2016 21:54
I think the police should be allowed to use every means to enforce the law convert cameras CCTV etc etc. AND yes I have been caught speeding relatively recently, did a speed awareness course and despite all my excuses that it was safer at that point to speed the bottom line is I was breaking the law.
For those that put forward the its a money making argument, the solution to that is simple. Don't break the law and they make zero £'s.

Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Joolstacho on 15.02. 2016 22:50
When the police start getting the BAD drivers rather than those travelling slightly over the limit, THEN I'll believe it's about safety not about revenue.
We have the ridiculous situation here, that people are being fined very large amounts of money for going 3-4kmh above the limit, yet the design rules for speedo accuracy allows for a 10% variation!
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: bsa-bill on 16.02. 2016 09:51
Quote
with speed cameras to catch you out

should read "with speed cameras to catch you breaking the law"
We all have done it, and we all should know the speed limit, if your caught it's down to you accept it like a man.
As a regular watcher of those police programmes, I see the results of excess speed and unfortunately bikers figure large in the fatality figures compared to car drivers regardless of fault.
Mt Plod is doing his job same as you do or used to
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: a10gf on 16.02. 2016 10:53
Save lives, save money, keep speed down. And let the cops use any trick.

Here it's become speed-bump town, they are 100's of them all around, very effective. Radar usually only used on main roads and motorways to catch the extreme speeders. And there's cameras at important points.

I don't mind at all, enforcement saves from death, suffering and sorrow > please spend a few moments imagining the situation were there no cops or radars...  *conf*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Topdad on 16.02. 2016 12:00
I don't disagree with the contents of these posts and certainly I am very careful when around towns villages and particularly schools however I do fail to see the safety aspects of a copper hiding in a ditch out on the moors somewhere where there are only sheep or hiding behind a billboard on a good straight A road without any houses about for miles heading further away from people not towards them (thank you northwales police now over 20 yrs ago but last ticket I've had 45mph in a 40zone ) 
I absolutely love cameras on traffic lights ,this does cut the amber gamblers but think speed cameras should be a deterent and placed sensibly .
 I am sure we can all relate something similar around them but on the final stretch of the A59 running down to the docks in Seaforth within a 4 mile stretch there are 5 cameras everyone knows where they are and the traffic doesn't slow to a lower norm it simply slows at the cameras and then everyone takes part in a kentucky derby to next one ,it's like being at Le Mans and what does that achieve safety wise, absolutely nothing !!  the container trucks still hit a roundabout so fast that we have  had a spate of overturned lorries , in desperation the local authority put in lights and converted the roundabout to a  traffic light controlled junction. 
Finally I cannot say I stick to all speed limits but only let rip  in the country side or where I'm certain to be riding safe and yes I'll take any ticket without arguing but please let there be an element of commonsense from our Police, I'll now shut up  *shh*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Greybeard on 16.02. 2016 13:50
I'm afraid constant speed monitoring is inevitable in the future; your start and finish times through each road section will be calculated against the speed limit and if you've exceeded the limit you will get done. This is because, A) Police resources are becoming too expensive, and B) people cannot be trusted. We already have many roads with constant monitor cameras in the UK. Do you have them in other countries?
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: a10gf on 16.02. 2016 14:17
constant monitor cameras in the UK. Do you have them in other countries?

Yes, average speed cams being implemented here (also in long tunnels) and from reading newspapers they are effective (death toll \ accidents down on roads where they are).
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: mugwump on 16.02. 2016 17:26
I presume most of you have seen the recent case in the news where a speeding biker ( modern bike ) lost his life when speeding and an elderly motorist turned right in front of the m/cyclist. Speed was 100 mph plus ( believe was on A road, but matters not ). The family were happy for the 'go-pro' footage  taken by the rider himself to go viral on you tube and news bulletins to be used as an example to other bikers. The only concern I had was that the car driver was prosecuted for careless. Not quite sure why, as the speed of the m/cyclist was in my opinion wholly to blame.  Most drivers would have felt there was plenty of time to make the manoeuvre. In my experience ( 30 yrs a copper ) speed is nearly always the cause of accidents, followed by inattention. Long live the cameras I say, they do slow speeders. Yes they are also a source of revenue and I have been caught too.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: nimrod650 on 16.02. 2016 18:51
Why were you speeding?
hard to do on a honda 90 out of town 49 flat out on a good day  but a clean licence for 57yrs *smile*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: RichardL on 16.02. 2016 19:12
Not speaking with authority, but I don't think cameras or radar in the US are used for issuing tickets for less than 5 MPH over the limit. I also believe that most uses of such tech include signs, such as, "Speed checked by radar" or "Patrolled by aircraft"' etc.

Richard L.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: cyclobutch on 17.02. 2016 09:05
Seems to me that here in the UK speed limits are mostly set quite arbitrarily these days, and often subsequently adjusted further here and there for no apparently good reason. For instance often as not you seem to be held down to a 40 limit further out from villages and the like and there seems to be no difference in terrain (and hence risk) when you do finally hit the deregulated signage. It may all be speeding in the eyes of the law but from a safety perspective – assuming that you are driving within reasonable bounds of your vehicle’s performance, and your own abilities, whilst mindful of prevailing conditions then that is all just so much cock.   

I mostly ride/drive my own pace as I see fit and run with a sat nav which at least indicates fixed camera positions. Won’t help me should I then encounter bogus horseboxes piled high with ill-used police salaries and associated expenses of course. 
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: bsa-bill on 17.02. 2016 09:51
I'm not to sure who decides upon speed limits, don't think it's the police tho.
a small village 5 miles from got a 30 limit put in place (few if any accidents had ever occurred and residents are few also), point is I remember the police quoted in the local press to the effect they would not be enforcing the limit
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Greybeard on 17.02. 2016 12:11
We have friends who live at the end of a ten mile road through open country to a peninsular. Because the road is bendy with ditches each side there have been a lot of fatal accidents; probably young guns racing their VW Golf's. The highway authority have installed constant speed cameras along the whole route. Without the cameras the speed limit would be 60mph but the cameras enforce 40mph. If drivers would keep to the normal UK maximum for two-way roads everything would be great but no, everybody has to suffer!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4488563,0.610439,3a,75y,111.39h,90.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3X2-YvhrBmC0Cr3nBBdeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: cyclobutch on 17.02. 2016 12:33
I must confess, riding with an old B&W plate I almost feel as though I’m flying under the radar. Kind of a stealth bike really. I’ve not knowingly tested this hypothesis however.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: RichardL on 17.02. 2016 12:51
In this case the cameras are not stealthy and I noticed, as cyber-riding down that road, that the use of cameras is posted in the signage. I am bit confused as to why the speed limit signs are the on right side and not the left.

Richard L.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Topdad on 17.02. 2016 13:45
on the correct side you mean richard *fight*

GB , what a shame .

I had to do a long motorway journey using the M6 and the M5 at at least 3 places they were using these cameras ,you'd have most of the vehicle doing a careful 50 but occasionally you'd see a car moving with apparent indifference one weaved through the lanes .A pattern developed they'd pop of at the next junction or so had me thinking ,were the cameras not working and did they know or was it that as they left before the end of the timed length of road it didn't affect them , what do you all think, regards Bob
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: morris on 17.02. 2016 14:35
Just heard this on the news. Our caring government decided to buy a batch of the newest Redflex NK7 speed camera's which can monitor and flash 6 lanes at the same time in both directions. The thing checks your speed twice before finally flashing. The flash itself is infrared so not visible to the human eye, and the camera is small enough to be hidden in a dustbin or similar at the side of the road...
Now I'm sure. I definitely am born to late.
http://www.redflex.com/index.php/en/rts-home/193-redflex-nk7-on-display
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: a10gf on 17.02. 2016 14:40
Talking about the devil, nearby here, some unfortunate guy ended his earthly presence this morning.
Hit the tunnel wall, noone else involved, speed no doubt the cause of total car destruction... Looks like the engine is inside the driver seat.

(http://bt.mnocdn.no/incoming/article3545228.ece/ALTERNATES/w480c169/vrak%20ny.jpg)
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Greybeard on 17.02. 2016 15:00
I must confess, riding with an old B&W plate I almost feel as though I’m flying under the radar. Kind of a stealth bike really. I’ve not knowingly tested this hypothesis however.

Last year I led a ride-out for our BSAOC branch. I saw a speed limit sign as we approached a village and slowed down before I got to it, (I tend to do that these days), the stragglers were trying to catch up and obviously didn't see the limit sign. There was a speed trap camera. Three people got speeding tickets through the post! I think they all avoided fines by taking a speed awareness course, (which sounds like a good idea to me). Anyway, the thing is, they all had monochrome number plates so Cyclobutch I don't think your theory works.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: olev on 18.02. 2016 00:40
Gday Morris,

Redflex is a good old aussie innovative company.
you will be right though. I am sure the Belgian authorities aren't as bent as the rest of the planet.
After all it has nothing to do with revenue??

http://www.afr.com/news/how-redflex-was-redlighted-for-bribery-in-chicago-20150823-gj5m73

cheers

Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: morris on 18.02. 2016 10:26
Redflex is a good old aussie innovative company.

That's why I posted this...  *smile*

I am sure the Belgian authorities aren't as bent as the rest of the planet.

Nope. They are smarter than that. Yesterday a civil servant got arrested for transferring €1.000.000 of government funds to his personal account... *whistle*
Who needs bribery... *doubt*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: jachenbach on 18.02. 2016 12:50
IMO, stupid kills, not speed. Police don't want to appear in court, especially to argue a case they may not win. It's much easier for them to prove a speeding violation than one for following too closely, pulling out in front of another vehicle, running a red light, etc. At least, that's what they've told me.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Greybeard on 18.02. 2016 14:13
Red light runner cameras are also on the increase. Soon we will have vehicles that are not able to drive too close to the one in front; in fact autonomous vehicles seem to be becoming a reality.

It's been said before but the golden days of motoring have gone, at least in the UK.

Before I drove in California I couldn't believe that the maximum of 55-65mph was adhered to, but it mostly was; so different to the UK where drivers almost universally exceed the legal maximum, especially on motorway/freeways. If you are keeping to the legal max for private vehicles of 70mph you are one of the slowest on the road and have to keep braving the loonies to overtake lorries in the slow lane.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Topdad on 18.02. 2016 15:25
Yes seems the average when not in a speed camera controlled area is certainly 80 ,if not 85 mph . 15 yrs ago I did a large motorway mileage and I'm afraid to say you just had to follow the norm , the most tiring bit was constantly adjusting the gap in front ,you'd pull back to get a more comfortable distance and an idiot in either other lane would pull in to tailgate the guy in front. I once watched in horror as a muppet in a BMW drove into the back of another vehicle both doing well in excess of  80 mph ,the car that rec'd the shunt was buried in the central reservation , while the muppet spun across the front of me and even closer to a lorry in the inside lane ending up facing the right way on the hard shoulder ! I never found out but pretty sure the driver that was hit came off worse whilst it looked like the muppet was unscratched . I contacted the police and was told they had enough witnesses but would be intouch if needed. That did it for me and my motorway days finished pretty soon after .
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: hdawson on 19.02. 2016 05:09
Here in Vic/Aus over the last 10 years the speed camera thing has gone mad.
With government revenues becoming reliant on fines to prop up ever more dodgy expenditure.From memory $360 Mil. last year.
All our speed cameras are unmarked.
Cops hide in the hills with hand held speed cameras in camo.(I kid you not)
At present 0-10 km over the limit incurs a $150  fine and 1 point from a 12 point allocated for 3 years.
Obviously increasing in increments of 10km.
You can imagine how many innocent drivers/riders are only a few points from losing their licence/ job/ home.
The number of unlicenced drivers has never been so high.
The latest blurb from our RTA regarding road fatalities is " Towards Zero"
What strange utopian universe do these people live in?
Famously our new head of traffic cop stated that if everyone reduced their speed by 1km, X amount of people would be saved from death by MVA.
No one in Vic can ride/drive to the conditions or trust their judgment.
All consideration is on watching the speedo.
Trading points (nominating another driver ) is rife.According to facebook one point is currently worth $200.
Thats what you get when the world is run by focus groups, gutless politicians and the populist media.
 
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: RichardL on 19.02. 2016 08:20
My guess is that the focus groups, gutless politicians and populist media (especially them) also hate the speed cameras. The real challenge is to use democracy for change, putting in politicians who will admit that the cameras are a tax, then take them out and levy honest taxes. Oooooh, taxes! Well, I'd rather they are straight up than disguised as something else that takes enjoyment out of life.

Richard L.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Joolstacho on 19.02. 2016 09:16
Just read and UNDERSTAND hdawson's post.
What we are talking about here is NOT about road safety. It IS about a self-righteous, naive, 'politically correct' group enforcing their own distorted values upon a subservient malleable population.
The 'enforcers' are silly enough to be persuaded by focus groups and market research studies, but I'm going to tell you from direct, personal experience, that you could prove virtually ANYTHING by means of the format and question language involved. The figures CAN LIE fellers, and they often do!
We (most of us 'normal' roadusers) are asleep at the wheel regarding this stuff. We are being blown into the weeds by the lobby groups because we are so blase about it. We'd better wake up soon or we'll be drowned. We'll just end up riding electric powered vehicles restricted to 30kmh.
What the enforcers want is a submissive, subservient, compliant population, tugging our forelocks to the powers that be.

What I want is my kids to be brought up in a World where they can respect laws because the laws themselves are devised to respect individuals rights.
I want my kids to ride safely because they understand the NEED to ride like that, not because they are scared about some fine that might await them). Self-discipline you see?
And please don't come back at me with the 'ex-cop' self-righteous crap. I've spent a lifetime on the roads, and I know that police drivers are AT LEAST as dangerous as other road users. You know it too.
(Just in case someone might want to have a go at me, I'll just say that over about 35 years I have a CLEAN license in a state where, I reckon I'd be one of only a handful who haven't been 'pinged' by the speed cameras).
No saint, but I ride/drive with my head in gear.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: cyclobutch on 19.02. 2016 09:55
Regardless of views, and indeed the likelihood of above average driving/riding skills of an interest group such as we have here, we must accept that most motorists (shall we say), are not particularly smart, nor interested in the actual process of driving, nor even particularly attentive. If you are looking to reduce accident death and injury statistics then the cheapest, simplest way to do that is to make cars stronger and have them crash at lower speeds. So that’s what is happening. And meanwhile we have that great panacea – the fool proof self-drive vehicle coming across the horizon at us.

Ghastly prospect? Yes and no. Faced with  driving down the M4 and M5 from London I’d rather be reading a book than staring out the front window to be honest. Will it also be a cure all for the tedium of traffic jams? (you’re not stuck in traffic, you are traffic). Maybe, but surely only if we are all doing self-drive. Personally I don’t even like the driving dynamics of modern cars – that sort of double think that throttle response now has (ooh – surely you didn’t really mean to tread so roughly on the throttle; I’ll just dampen that a shade), spongy gear changes, self-initiating wipers. That whole gamut that makes modern life sh1t. Come to that even self-cancelling indicators wind me up.     

We are faced with increasingly draconian measures in order to help us all. Real driving, at least on the public highway will cease to be. Fossil fuels will be replaced before too long. In the not too distant future our bikes will be museum pieces and so will we. Most people don’t care. In a democracy they will have the final say.

It’s not great now. It can only get worse. Get it whilst it’s hot - get on your bike and ride.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: bsa-bill on 19.02. 2016 10:12
Hold on a mo, I nearly replied to a post (no names no pack drill) that is a whole lot more negative than my experience of driving/riding for 55 years here in the UK, then I remembered the little flag.
We are talking about a whole lot of different police forces over the globe so possible apples and oranges.
I have no problem with UK speed cameras. and speed restrictions are well known or should be and marked with big signs
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Angus on 19.02. 2016 10:15
I must admit this gets me angry  *fight* in the UK. We keep calling speed enforcement and parking enforcement taxes. They are not they are the enforcement of the current law. The answer has I have said before is simple, obey the law and they make no money. I will add to that, if you don’t like the law get it changed so if you think a speed limit is wrong the campaign to change it do not campaign to stop its enforcement. I accept both campaigns would probably be fruitless but at least lets get the target right. Unless we are arguing for all roads to have no limit at all  *bright idea*.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: RichardL on 19.02. 2016 13:52
History is peppered with bad, sometimes horrible, sometimes despicable laws. Speeds limits, in theory, are not among them, however, in their enforcement a little tolerance in mechanical as well as human terms needs to be considered. For example, I don't believe citing for 1 MPH over a 35 MPH limit is adequate tolerance in either sense of the word. To me, 10% seems fair. (Not necessarily fun, but fair.)

Richard L.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: jachenbach on 19.02. 2016 14:07
I propose that in the interest of public safety, everyone should have to drive a 36hp VW bus. They can't go fast, and sitting in front of the axle with nothing but a thin piece of sheet metal between you and the car in front of you discourages tailgating.  *smile* Of course, motorcycles should be banned completely, as people get hurt riding bikes. And horses, too. They're even more dangerous.
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: bsa-bill on 19.02. 2016 16:35
Quote
motorcycles should be banned completely, as people get hurt riding bikes. And horses, too.

I get it - they both kick back

and speaking of horses and cameras here's a guy taking huge chances with his lugs

https://www.facebook.com/radioryder/videos/810457902376107/ (https://www.facebook.com/radioryder/videos/810457902376107/)
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: nimrod650 on 19.02. 2016 19:00
since i posted this topic i heard that one of the bikers caught placed a small childs blue plastic tent on the grass verge with a flashing torch inside  if you cant beat them join them *smile* *smile* *smile*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: nimrod650 on 01.03. 2016 18:00
Quote
motorcycles should be banned completely, as people get hurt riding bikes. And horses, too.

I get it - they both kick back

and speaking of horses and cameras here's a guy taking huge chances with his lugs

https://www.facebook.com/radioryder/videos/810457902376107/ (https://www.facebook.com/radioryder/videos/810457902376107/)
or parts lower down
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: muskrat on 01.03. 2016 19:15
A long way from the old BSA's the cops used to chase us on.
https://www.facebook.com/7newssc/videos/1034900813234019/
Cheers
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: morris on 01.03. 2016 20:05
A long way from the old BSA's the cops used to chase us on.
https://www.facebook.com/7newssc/videos/1034900813234019/
Cheers

But you'd really have to be police to mount a silly top case on the back of a Hayabusa...  *smile*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Tomcat on 02.03. 2016 08:12
How about this lot? http://www.redditmirror.cc/cache/websites/www.speedcam.co.uk_adyvb/www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm very naughty  *eek*
Title: Re: police cameras
Post by: Topdad on 02.03. 2016 10:57
the only damaged one I know about in this area is in the rural area of Parbold round the first corner on what becomes a steep hill ,sited just before the normal rider driver would slow anyway due to the hill dropping away steeply ,the locals have takedn a dislike to it and very often you'll see it decapitated ,they use a chain saw and clip it off . It appears to be a battle of wills , the council replace ,the locals behead it and so on , the locals seem to have the upper hand Mr Plod hasn't found any culprits  *bash*