The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Manx71 on 14.04. 2016 19:31

Title: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 14.04. 2016 19:31
Hi Guys,

I`m a newbe but from what I can gather, I should Wash out the sludge trap and maybe fit something like this  http://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/product/bsa-a7-a10-a50-a65-all-years-sump-filter-kit

before I fire her up.

I`ve been searching the forum for a guide of how to do it and what I need (gaskets etc.) could someone please explain, or simply point me in the right direction?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: a10gf on 14.04. 2016 20:14
Very good point about the sludge trap.

The sump kit is a fine thing. A thought, better to use studs+nuts (like originally fiited) instead of bolts = any eventual thread damage will never occur in the crankcase.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 14.04. 2016 20:17
Yeah, thats a valid point. I never use bolts on my lammy engines, always studs.

Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: muskrat on 14.04. 2016 20:30
G'day Rob.
Their pretty straight forward to fit, and well worth it (there are cheaper ones on the market). Remove the 4 nuts hold that old one on and remove the plate. You will need to remove the studs and clean the face. Now install the gasket, strainer plate, gasket and sump plate. Easy peasy. You will probably find that after sitting for 2 years the sump is full (wet sumped) of oil, so have a good 2Lt container under her when you remove the old plate. That's why the new plug type sump plate is good.
The sludge trap is a big job (full motor strip), so you won't be doing that straight away. Once you've done a good look over and filled the oil tank (leave the filler cap off), start her up. First check is to see oil returning to the tank (may take a minute). If it does, put your helmet on and go for a short (5 miles) ride. Listen for any Knocks on acceleration or overrun.
Report back with any questions.
Cheers
A10gf got in while I was typing (one finger).
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Billybream on 14.04. 2016 20:35
To clean the sludge trap would mean a complete engine strip, so a lot of work involved. Would recommend you drain the oil tank and check the oil tank filter, also clean the bottom of the tank thoroughly, this will tell you a lot about engine condition, together with sump filter contents.
 Fill with oil and prime the oil pump, this can be achieved by turning engine over or walking bike in gear. Then start her up and check oil return to top of tank, and if you have steady flow, take her out and enjoy the delights of a classic bike.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: RichardL on 14.04. 2016 20:36

(Duplicated some thoughts from Billybream, who beat me to the Send button.)

I didn't see this post before responding to "New Guy". My inclination is to think that two years is not so long since the bike last run that cleaning out the sludge trap should be considered mandatory. Having said that, let's wait for others with stronger opinions to chime in. There are plenty of guys here with more experience than I have. The thing is, washing out the sludge trap and changing the sump filter are in two completely different realms of work. Changing the sump late and filter you do in a half-hour. Cleaning the sludge trap could mean you're not riding any time soon, as splitting the cases is required.

Richard L.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: unclerob on 14.04. 2016 20:44
Hi, and welcome! I'm thinking when you say sludge trap you're assuming its a filter that needs to be cleaned? Its actually inside the crankshaft and so to get at it you would need to completely strip the whole engine, usually though that is only done as part of an engine rebuild and not something you'd normally do to a working engine that has just stood for a while. I think whoever suggested you clean the sludge trap probably only meant cleaning the filter gauze under the sump plate, there is also another one attached to the large chrome nut at the bottom of the oil tank and unless the bike has been fitted with an add on modern type oil filter thats your lot for filters!
The main thing though before starting it, as far as oil goes anyway,is draining the old stuff out, checking theres nothing nasty in the gauzes and putting some new in. Worthwhile taking the plugs out and kicking it over for a while to at least make a start in getting it circulating and when it does start make sure its is actually pumping oil by looking inside the oil tank cap where you should see a jet of oil coming out of the tube with a hole in it!
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: unclerob on 14.04. 2016 20:46
And I came last in the send button pressing race!
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: RichardL on 14.04. 2016 21:01
I meant to add that you should not start using detergent oil, as that might loosen enough sludge in the trap to cause trouble.

Richard L.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 14.04. 2016 21:21
Ahh, brilliant. Cheers chaps.

What oil do you reccomend and where is the best web based place for parts?
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: chaterlea25 on 14.04. 2016 22:00
Hi, Manx
Can you find out anything about the bikes history prior to its lay up ?
Was it  used extensively before that or are there any receipts or documentation with it, MOT's or tax discs ??
It may have been rebuilt and not used ?? (this quite often happens *sad2*)
Cleaning out the oil tank and sump filter will tell a lot

My advice would be to use Castrol classic 40 or equivalent for the engine

There are a lot of people selling A10 stuff on ebay and the likes
Not all good quality out there ???
Our own Beezermac on the forum sells a good range of spares
https://sites.google.com/site/priorymagnetos/home

John
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 14.04. 2016 22:29
It was fully restored 20 years ago (thats why it looks like it has a little original patina).

The guy who restored it did a lot of bikes but this one was his personal bike, much loved. 7000km`s on the clock.

The last 10 years its been pulled out for a plod and oil has been changed every year until 2 years ago when the currant owners Health meant that it has sat around.

The pics look stunning, so cant wait to see it in the flesh. The fella who owns it said he could change the oil so I can start it but I think I`ll do it when I get it home.

The owner is very attatched and says its always started very easily and I m worried that if I turn up on saturday and fire her up that he will change his mind again..

 
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 14.04. 2016 22:47
Oh.. Another thing. I havn`t got any whitworth tools .  I need a socket set and spanner set but is there anything else that I should have while I m at it?

Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: duTch on 14.04. 2016 23:53

 Hiya Man-x  *smile*

 You won't need a full set, just a few sockets, ring and O/enders both handy, and a couple thin wall sockets (that don't come to mind just now) but as you go you may need a special tools that you may need to make if you can do.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 15.04. 2016 08:43
Ok, bought some spanners and sockets off ebay.

Which sparkplugs do I need?
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: muskrat on 15.04. 2016 10:27
NGK B7HS for iron head, B7ES for alloy head.
Cheers
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 15.04. 2016 10:32
Nice! Same as my lammies.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Dean on 15.04. 2016 18:05
Free the clutch plates off before first starting the bike. Put the bike in gear, pull in the clutch and operate the kick start. The kick start should move without turning over the engine. The plates can have a tendency to stick together when standing for a while and will make selecting gear difficult and noisy and give the gears a nasty shock when selecting first gear after starting the engine.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 15.04. 2016 21:38
Good tip. Thats also the same for the lammies.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 16.04. 2016 22:53
Picked her up today and she`s even nicer in the flesh.

I got a copy of the parts book, original Tools and some other bits and bobs. It even has the original pump still attached to the frame (wow that thing is Heavy duty)

Anyway changed the oil and fired her up. She started first kick (my lammies dont even do that if they have been stood a while), and the Golden has sat for 2 years.

First it was just firing on one cylinder but after half a minute the other one chimed in. What a fantastic sound!

Here she is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFnAME9v_E
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Greybeard on 16.04. 2016 23:02
Yep, she is a beauty! Well done!

 I find on my bike that if I give the carburetor a tickle I don't need choke. Well, maybe if it is really cold weather I might need the choke.
I hope you were looking into the oil tank to check return flow. It needs to become a habit on these machines.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 16.04. 2016 23:20
I needed both a tickle and choke but it was 3 Celius in the garage, so could be the reason for needing both.

Nope, didn`t check the oil return but will do before I go for a ride.

Whats the general thought on lead addative in the petrol? Having only dabbled in 2 strokes before, i ve never needed it.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 16.04. 2016 23:54
Idiot question: How do I lift up the seat. Need to charge my battery
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: trevinoz on 16.04. 2016 23:56
Two nuts at the rear.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: KiwiGF on 17.04. 2016 01:17
I'm not sure if you will get a consensus on the lead additive question, but I'm fairly sure the majority don't bother, I don't.....

I've not seen good evidence lead prevents pocketing on A10,s but that's not surprising as it would be rather difficult to prove one way or he other.

I've a cast iron b31 cylinder head in my shed, badly pocketed and its not been used for so long it would not have seen unleaded fuel, so leaded fuel did not prevent pocketing on that head, but that's hardly conclusive evidence it does not work!

If my bike had an ally head ...it doesn't....I would opt for valve seats that did not need lead in the fuel.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: bsa-bill on 17.04. 2016 09:07
it would be rather difficult to prove one way or he other.

yes - witness my original Flash had a seat replaced, that was in 1962/3 when fuel was leaded, those days we just kidded ourselves it was because we were flogging the life out of them, uuuummmm the bikes are still alive but not so many of the riders
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: muskrat on 17.04. 2016 09:23
 *yeah* *good3*
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Greybeard on 17.04. 2016 09:58
Whats the general thought on lead addative in the petrol?
Since putting my bike back on the road three years ago I have been using a product that claims to protect valve seats and damage caused by Ethanol in petrol; however after finding a premature build up of oily carbon deposit in the head when I recently stripped the top end I'm going to try Super Unleaded, (RON 98) straight. I don't know how much Ethanol is in UK petrol; the clear plastic fuel lines had become very hard so I've changed them to a modern flexible braided type.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: bsa-bill on 17.04. 2016 10:11
Quote
I don't know how much Ethanol is in UK petrol;

It used to be 5%, I recall talk of it going to 10% but don't know if that happened (now and then things pass me by  ;))
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: duTch on 17.04. 2016 14:56
 I've only done about 8000 miles on mine in this rebuild using Premium U/L (Plunger A10, BV alloy head, 357/7.25:1), and haven't stripped it to see what may or may not be happening, but it keeps going *dunno*

 I asked my mate about running unleaded on those seats, he said it'll be fine- and he's a well respected rebuilder.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 17.04. 2016 19:09
Ive asked some of the brit bike enthusiasts over here and it seems that no one really knows whats best and most use the addative now and then.

Anyway, I managed to go for a 60km jaunt this evening and some issues have shown themselfs.

First on the agenda is I cant give it any more than half throttle. The fact that is running otherwise lovely, makes me point at a fuel issue, maybe a blocked jet?

To give it a test I pulled out the reserve fuel tap and discoverd to my horror that the stop screw itsn t there anymore and emptied some of the contents of the tank on my DocMartains.

Are these screws available somewhere?

Another, less important issue is my Smiths dial stops at 30km`s and I really hope its just the cable because it is a thing of beauty.

The last issue is due to me. Trying to slow the bike down with the back brake and only throwing it in fourth gear is something I realy have to work on ! haha. 
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: muskrat on 17.04. 2016 19:23
G'day Rob.
Carb clean time. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a main jet fall out to give that symptom.
No additives needed. If you must a little valve saver won't hurt (juat darken the plugs).
Yep know what your saying. #1 BSA right foot 1 up 3 down, #2 BSA right foot 1 down 3 up, Honda left foot 1 down 4 up. Always stuff up at least once on a ride.
Cheers
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Greybeard on 17.04. 2016 19:49
I guess the Lambrettas have a gear change on the handlebars?
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 17.04. 2016 20:21
Yes they do. Handlebar gear change but the rear brake pedal is a right footed affair, so pottering around today on half throttle was proberbly a good thing after riding a modern japanese bike (W800) for the last couple of years.

While we are discussing gears. its a bit hit and miss finding neutral. I stood at the petrol station for a minute trying to find neutral before I turned the bike off and faffed another minute befor I found it.

Going from 3rd to second is a crunchy experience if the revs are (at a Guess) around 1500-2000rpm, but just as good as the Kawasaki under that. Is that normal?

Ohh, and it doesn`t leak oil and I know that isnt normal... ;)

Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: metalflake11 on 17.04. 2016 20:35
Yes they do. Handlebar gear change but the rear brake pedal is a right footed affair, so pottering around today on half throttle was proberbly a good thing after riding a modern japanese bike (W800) for the last couple of years.

While we are discussing gears. its a bit hit and miss finding neutral. I stood at the petrol station for a minute trying to find neutral before I turned the bike off and faffed another minute befor I found it.

Going from 3rd to second is a crunchy experience if the revs are (at a Guess) around 1500-2000rpm, but just as good as the Kawasaki under that. Is that normal?

Ohh, and it doesn`t leak oil and I know that isnt normal... ;)

You didn't put any in, did you!   *smile*
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 17.04. 2016 20:45
Haha... It will proberbly empty the whole gearbox on the garage floor tonight just for my blastphomy.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: KiwiGF on 17.04. 2016 21:26
Hard to find neutral is normal but fixable depending on how much it bothers you, any significant clutch drag and it gets impossible at a standstill, the springs in clutches can be adjusted to reduce drag, by getting the pressure plate to lift dead evenly (I use a dial gauge), but worn parts eg notches in the basket can also cause clutch drag.

The fact you are getting a bit of gear crunching (which is not normal, assuming you are blipping the throttle when changing down) may also indicate a clutch drag problem, but maybe change the primary oil to ATF or sae 30 before stripping it down.

Let me know if you find that petrol tap screw, I had the exactly the same problem years ago, and still haven't fixed it  *whistle* I just don't use reserve.....

If the speedo cable is not at fault you can at least clean a chronometric yourself and often oil getting inside from the cable causes problems solved by cleaning .....but you would have to be brave to give it a go...there are some guides on fixing them on the net. Getting the bezel off can be a challenge though  *work*

I swap back and forth from my street triple and a10, they are so different I don't usually stuff up the gears, except when I'm tired  *problem*


Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Greybeard on 17.04. 2016 23:05
Quote

When driving away wait a couple of seconds before engaging first.

I meant to say wait a couple of seconds after pulling in the clutch before engaging first. Allows the gears time to stop spinning.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 18.04. 2016 05:34
Yes, definatly clutch! Thanks for the tip.

It does want to pull in first with the clutch pulled in. Very slight mind and not noticable until I lift up my feet.

I`ll try that first. Also among the bits and bobs I got With the bike, I found one of these.

I wasn t sure what it was until I found the Amal diagram, so I think the old boy I bought it from has been messing with the carb at some point and maybe done something wrong.

I`m off to Switzerland now (work :(  ) but the first job to do when I come back this weekend is to strip the carb and have a look what the culprit is. I think it must be main jet related. 
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Dean on 18.04. 2016 21:29
She looks and sounds great mate.
I'm sure you'll have many hours and miles of fun together.

I've found the best place for help, advise and information on these bikes is....

this forum *smile*
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: muskrat on 18.04. 2016 21:52
G'day Rob.
At least now you'll be able to go to a Mods V Rockers party and have a foot in both camps.
Cheers
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 19.04. 2016 15:28
I'm not a mod!

I actually don't understand the dressing up and dressing up the scooter to look like a Christmas tree thing... Im also younger than all my bikes, so I don't buy and ride them for a trip down memory lane.

I simply love them because.....Hmm...Just because.  Although the scooters are more practical in the sense that they are easier to push home if (when!) vital parts rattle off on the motorway. Hehe
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Greybeard on 19.04. 2016 16:43
I grew up preferring motorcycles to scooters, although in the 60's I was known as the Mod on a motorbike because I dressed smart, not in greasy leathers. Later when I met my future wife and I had no car available she lent me her Vespa 125cc and I loved it! It was reliable, nippy and fairly dry in wet weather, oh did I say it was reliable!
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 21.04. 2016 15:24
These days you have to tune scooters to keep up with modern days traffic and its full throttle everywhere, so they always over thier limits.

Thats why they need to be pushed now and then.. hehe
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 21.04. 2016 20:14
Right I`m home...

Took the carb off and checked the clutch cable.

Am I supposed to have a cable tensioner where it is held on the gearbox?

The lever tensioner is wound all the way out. The threads in the lever are shot but the Outer nut still does its job but I still have some slack.

(ps. where do you fellas buy parts uk based? )

Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Greybeard on 21.04. 2016 21:00
Am I supposed to have a cable tensioner where it is held on the gearbox?
The lever tensioner is wound all the way out. The threads in the lever are shot but the Outer nut still does its job but I still have some slack.

The A7A10 Wiki is worth bookmarking. There's information about clutch adjustments here:
http://www.bsawiki.com/chaps/10-transmission/18-chapter10

I have no clutch cable adjuster at the handlebar end. There is one at the gearbox, as shown in the Wiki
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 21.04. 2016 21:13
Thanks for the link.

Mine is the other way around, aparently they are like mine from 60-61
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: duTch on 21.04. 2016 22:09

 I was curious about the cable adjusters, so a while ago went through the parts lists and couldn't see a mention of a handlebar adjuster until I think '69,
 I don't have dedicated lists for years '59-63 though, only one that's titled ''Late A10".

 I have both on my ~'52/3, but the top one is aftermarket and takes a conical brake adjuster (as does my conical TLS).

 Parts #'s;
 Clutch/Brake Lever Cable ADJUSTERS
’69           18/1708; Nut-18/1709  (3/8” UNF)
’70-’71     60-2071 / nut  60-2072
’72           60-3856 / nut  60-3586                   (no idea why these have a different # to 70-71)
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: trevinoz on 23.04. 2016 23:10
The cable adjuster was moved from the gearbox to the handlebar for 1960 on. The thread in the gearbox was deleted at the same time.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 24.04. 2016 20:46
Thanx again fellas.
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 06.05. 2016 22:21
I adjusted the clutch, new carb, new sump cover, sorted out som termanals so the lights and horn work, new battery and some other bits and bobs but I couldn t get it to start this evening.

Plugs out, plugs in, tickle, don`t tickle, choke, no choke... nothing.

Then i noticed the air screw was fuly home, so opend it 1.5 turns and she fired right up.

Went for 30km ride and apart from it being a bit scarry (controls on a different side, long reach to front brake lever, brakes not that brilliant) I realy love it.

When I say she fires right up, It pretty random how many kicks it takes.

I m thinking about jobs I would like to do in the future and 12v conversion is on my list. What exactly do I need and where to buy it? 
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: muskrat on 07.05. 2016 00:08
G'day Rob.
Now that you've got her going, could you please ask  *????*'s in the related sections eg 12v conversion in the Lucas, electrical, Ignition. Otherwise this topic will go on forever and be consisting of many different topics.
Cheers
Title: Re: Bike hasn`t been run for 2 years, tips needed.
Post by: Manx71 on 09.05. 2016 07:08
yup.