The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: BrianS on 10.01. 2017 13:38

Title: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 10.01. 2017 13:38
Newby alert!

I have read through various threads but have become muddled  *sad2*

My dynamo is being refurbished by Andrew at Priory Magnetos and upgraded to 12v mainly to improve lights and allow me to fit indicators.

I have had a look at my existing Lucas P100 tripod-style headlight unit and am not starting from a good point as the reflector is corroded.

As it needs to be replaced, my choices appear to be between a sealed beam or ordinary unit that allows bulbs to be changed. Is it always the case that you get better light output for your amps on a sealed beam unit?

Also, is there a legal requirement for a side light? Not sure what their value is  *conf*

If a bulbed unit, presumably I should get one with an H4 fitting to give the widest possible choices.  I am unnerved by all the feedback on LED ones and don't fancy being a guinea pig so I am guessing halogen bulbs are the way to go?

For a dynamo with a new armature using modern windings/materials, what would be the sensible maximum size bulb?  Andrew quotes 60w as the output for the dynamo.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Brian

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: bsa-bill on 10.01. 2017 13:53
If I were doing my Flash restore again I think I'd look at a LED replacement, so that would rule out a sealed beam I think , (could be wrong)

dipped headlight is a better option than sidelight to my way of thinking, so I'd not be too bothered about losing the sidelight
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Slippery Sam on 10.01. 2017 16:35
Brian,
I'm not the most experienced on here - but I do have opinions - LOL
For me - I wouldn't be trying too hard to get a totally modern equivalent light (as good as a new bike).  Keep it simple, do your 12V upgrade and stick in a non sealed unit and halogen.  That will give you options for later and will allow you to experement over time - that way you can keep it looking right without too much difficulty.  It starts to get hard to hide HID / LED fittings and ballasts or simply to keep wiring tidy.
Let us know how your lights turn out once you're upgraded.
Raymond.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 10.01. 2017 19:00
If I were doing my Flash restore again I think I'd look at a LED replacement, so that would rule out a sealed beam I think , (could be wrong)

dipped headlight is a better option than sidelight to my way of thinking, so I'd not be too bothered about losing the sidelight

Thanks for the reply Bill.

I have spent more time today than I would like to admit scrabbling around the interweb for information about headlights, indicators, LEDs etc!

Regarding replacing the headlight bulb with LED, I came across this in a webpage by one of the LED/lighting/electrical gurus - James - see https://matchlessclueless.com/electrical/lighting/led-lighting/  (https://matchlessclueless.com/electrical/lighting/led-lighting/)

"The headlamp bulb might seem to be the most obvious one to replace as it is usually the highest wattage one found on any bike, varying from a rather dull 18 Watts up to an acceptable 25-35 Watts, through to a dazzling 60-65 Watts (probably not a good idea on old Lucas dynamo electrics though!). However, at the moment LED bulbs just aren’t suitable for headlamp usage so we need to look elsewhere."

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: KiwiGF on 10.01. 2017 19:37
In case you did not find this info when googling, this may tell you all you need to know  *smile*

http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11047.msg83722#msg83722

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 10.01. 2017 20:39
In case you did not find this info when googling, this may tell you all you need to know  *smile*

http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11047.msg83722#msg83722

Hi KiwiGF!

Yes - I had read through that thread but I guess the naysayers put me off an LED headlight bulb.

I had looked at the CDRC page and obviously didn't scroll down the page far enough but, having done so, £54.95 is a bit scary for a headlight bulb!!!!

Has anyone else tried these bulbs on a regular basis?

Brian

 
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: chaterlea25 on 10.01. 2017 20:43
Hi Brian,
What regulator are you going to fit ? DVR" ?
It might be worth going to negative earth if you are adding indicators and or LED bulbs
Avoid the 60/55 halogen in my experience the 12v converted dynamo won't cope *ex*
I saw in a recent magazine that Hitchcocks are offering "Neolite" reflector units, these are supposed to give a much better beam pattern (H4 type holder)
 *????* *????* their matching halogen bulb seems very expensive at £30 *eek*

I have not tried the LED bulbs,

John

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: bsa-bill on 10.01. 2017 21:26
Quote
However, at the moment LED bulbs just aren’t suitable for headlamp usage so we need to look elsewhere."

Haven't tried them myself Brian but like all newish stuff they get better and better and eventually also cheaper so something for the future for sure
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 10.01. 2017 22:10
Hi Brian,
What regulator are you going to fit ? DVR" ?
It might be worth going to negative earth if you are adding indicators and or LED bulbs
Avoid the 60/55 halogen in my experience the 12v converted dynamo won't cope *ex*
I saw in a recent magazine that Hitchcocks are offering "Neolite" reflector units, these are supposed to give a much better beam pattern (H4 type holder)
 *????* *????* their matching halogen bulb seems very expensive at £30 *eek*

I have not tried the LED bulbs,

John

Hi John

I have ordered a DVR2 which is highly recommended by forum members so have got that side of things covered.

Can I ask why going -ve earth would be better for LEDs please?

Not heard about the Hitchocks Neolite but it seems sensibly priced - http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-electrics-lighting#part_5879 (http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-electrics-lighting#part_5879) 

Interesting that it uses an HS1 fitment rather than H4. The light unit complete with special bulb is £30 plus p&p    (HEADLAMP UNIT, NEOLITE, LH BEAM WITH PHILIPS MOTOVISION BULB). Has anyone fitted one to an A10 headlight shell please? They look quite deep.

Also, have you a link to the magazine article please John?

Cheers

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: KiwiGF on 10.01. 2017 23:34

[/quote]

Can I ask why going -ve earth would be better for LEDs please?

[/quote]

Some LED bulbs are only available in negative earth type, I guess that was the previous post was referring to that, maybe some LED bulbs are either dual polarity or available in positive earth type now?
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: kiwipom on 11.01. 2017 02:04
hi guys, i put indicators on my positive earth system with no problems, cheers 
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 11.01. 2017 09:08
In case you did not find this info when googling, this may tell you all you need to know  *smile*

http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11047.msg83722#msg83722

Hi KiwiGF!

Yes - I had read through that thread but I guess the naysayers put me off an LED headlight bulb.


I had looked at the CDRC page and obviously didn't scroll down the page far enough but, having done so, £54.95 is a bit scary for a headlight bulb!!!!

Has anyone else tried these bulbs on a regular basis?

Brian

The 12V version might be better than the 6V but as mine came marked 6-24V i assume it is the same globe.
A piece of trash is the only way I could describe it.
It puts out less light than my old 25/25w and I have gone back to std tungston globes.
It is a good bright white light for reading books or a map and might work in a car where you have 2 or 4 of them but a waste of money on a motorcycle.
Not enough light to overcome my own shadow from street lights.
Not enough light to over come my own shadow with a motorcycle behind me let alone a car.
Reasonable for speeds under 5 mph in the paddock with no other light source.
Just for a comparrison I tried riding with the Ever Ready dolphin torch taped under the headlamp and it gives a more useful light.

Should have realised it would be a dissapointment when the instructions go to great lengths to blame your reflector if you find the light inadequate.
This was on the M20 with an 8" headlamp that has a sliding bulb holder so you can focus the light so the refector was not the problem it was resilvered about 15 years ago and gives a brilliant light with the original 25/25 I was just trying to save power.
The bike has a DVR2 regulator & was reading 7.2 V at the globe with the engine running so not a power problem, just a light without balls.
On a road with no traffic and very sparse street lights 20 mph was the max speed  could ride at and still see enough of the road to stay on my side & out of the verge, only just and t that speed not enough light to see ruts & holes in the road.

The stop/tail globe OTOH works really well so I can recommend that but not the double dipper.

Don't buy one.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Bsareg on 11.01. 2017 10:55
My C11 uses the short 40 watt dynamo which won't even run continuously  a 24w headlight at our Cornish Lane speeds, so I'm experimenting with a buck inverter that converts 6v to 12v at over 90% efficiently. I  have in the past made up 12v regulators that work well on A10s but they need more revs before they start charging so are not suitable for C11. The inverter is only used to run the headlight but could be used for whole system. With a fan cooled led, new refector,  the light is fine for C11  (sub 50s ) speeds. The unit is small, fits into the headlight cowl and emits little heat, costs under £10 delivered from China via Ebay
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: cyclobutch on 11.01. 2017 11:41
I think that the legal/MOT position with regards sidelights is dependent on whether you have switch position for one. If you have a switch position then there must be a light that activates. However there may also be dispensations to that with regard age – I don’t know. And it might not be that clear to either the MOT tester or indeed the Rozzers as to whether they could find such a switch position on an A10.

Examples; My ’89 XLH1200 has no switch position for a sidelight and no such light. It operates through the ignition switch (key). One position is ignition, and the other is main lights. Dip is on the handlebar cluster. Perhaps oddly, the instrument lights are actually on in both positions; it’s maybe a cods up from some American daylight running lamps I suppose. My Camel has an aftermarket headlight fitted which has no sidelight provision. However, there is a switch position for that on the cluster and therefore I have a separate LED light mounted on the bottom yoke that is operated by that. And BTW, that is very bright and low draw so a good option over using dipped for an all-round running lamp.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Slippery Sam on 11.01. 2017 13:53

Hi KiwiGF!

Yes - I had read through that thread but I guess the naysayers put me off an LED headlight bulb.

I had looked at the CDRC page and obviously didn't scroll down the page far enough but, having done so, £54.95 is a bit scary for a headlight bulb!!!!

Has anyone else tried these bulbs on a regular basis?

Brian
[/quote]

Brian, I don't use these myself but a mate has one in his Yamaha R1.  It's very good and at standstill looks as bright as any standard japanese sports bike I've seen and definately on a par with the HIDs I've fitted to my own bikes in the past.  Very white light (Think his LED was 6000k) and good pattern.  Only downside is the balast, unlike most HIDs is on the back of the bulb and will stick out the back of your headlight.  Never seen one running on a BSA/dynamo etc - so no idea if it'll be different but on the R1 it's the business.  Pretty sure my mate didn't pay £54 for it though - he's a bit tight - so there may be cheaper versions around for the spec you see in your advert.
Raymond.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 11.01. 2017 16:23
I am really grateful for all the great feedback guys!

I tend to get a bit enthusiastic about new projects and rush in too quickly. I have to tell myself that there is absolutely no rush and, with this in mind, I have taken Andrew's advice and wll fit the dynamo and conventional bulbs before experimenting.

With that in mind, I went through my ice cream tub of old bulbs and actually found a 12v dipping headlight bulb with the same fitting as the original 6v one so that was a big bonus  *smile*  Nothing on it to say the wattage just "BRITISH PRE-FOCUS" stamped on it but it didn't get upset when I tested it on a 12v battery!

The stop/tail light is a standard fitting so I have a 12v equivalent for there.

The speedo bulb is a bit more of a challenge. Small bayonet fitting and 6v 3w. I can find a 12v 5w that will fit but don't like the thought of losing even 2w that could otherwise be used by the headlight! I think I must investigate the back of my shelves - gotta have something!

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 11.01. 2017 17:18
...The speedo bulb is a bit more of a challenge. Small bayonet fitting and 6v 3w. I can find a 12v 5w that will fit but don't like the thought of losing even 2w that could otherwise be used by the headlight!

I have a feeling that the sidelight goes off when the headlamp is on.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: chaterlea25 on 11.01. 2017 17:39
Hi Brian,
That makes more sense *red* (£30 bulb)
The reason for neg earth is that LED bulbs are usually polarity sensitive, they will only work for their designed polarity
Since most modern vehicles are neg earth, those bulbs will always be cheaper and more easily available

The Classic motorcycle magazine Jan17 page 9 just a paragraph about the reflector units

John

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 11.01. 2017 20:34
I have a feeling that the sidelight goes off when the headlamp is on.

I had an email from the previous owner this morning (bless him!) and he says he replaced the standard headlight glass for a Lucas tripod (or tri-bar) version to add a touch of class  ;)

The new headlight didn't have a pilot lot facility so he added two Matchless sidelamps - see photo. I just checked and they stay on whether the switch is on headlight or park. I am guessing that is just the way they were wired in rather than a function of the switch which probably works as you suggest.

The sidelights have a BA9S bulb holder. I am tempted to use them as front indicators by deploying an amber bulb but it would have to be bright!
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 12.01. 2017 18:00
Crikey - a pair of non-chromed Matchless sidelights needing attention just went for £56 on eBay!  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282315933279?ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282315933279?ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true)

I might put mine on eBay and that would pay for a whole flasher set up!!!

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Bsareg on 12.01. 2017 18:48
They were also used on quite a few cars and vans so that might push the price up
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 13.01. 2017 10:25
late to the party on this one and the author of that long thread on LEDs referenced above. some months down the track I can still say the latest generation headlamp LEDS from dynamoregulatorconversions are GREAT be they 6v or 12V. and if you have a BPF reflector you can make one fit with some fiddling and cable ties (tho they'll say you can't). but a h4 reflector is easier and has a better pattern for sure. the 'naysayers' are largely on about older LEDS and I'd agree they're not good enough for the headlamp, even the earlier dynamoregulatorconversions  'double dipper' ones. LED technology is moving fast so check the date on the posts you read. Avoid headlamp ones with fans - cheap as chips and last about as long.

thing about 12v windings on our dynamos is some people have them burn out as the wire is thinner. do keep an eye on the amps your bulbs are drawing, especially with sidelights etc. or... get...some.. LEDS!.

DVR2 - good call, super simple. no more dark arts of lucas regulator adjustment and higher kick-in charge voltage.

the LED tail lamps i have (matchlesscluesless 6v and dynamoregulatorconversions  12v) are OK but not great. again they win on low power. all the plug-in LED replacement bulbs for indicators/sidelights I've tried are rubbish. some of the cluster LED board types are ok (not great).

Goffy has some LEDS that fit the speedo and work fine - quite a white light

negative earth has been covered above - gives you more choices.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: rocker21 on 14.01. 2017 11:51
fit a cibie z beam unit which has an h4 fitting then buy a led from classic dynmao conversions, the result is a well focused light  that uses very little power, done this on my A7 and as i live in a very rural area with no street light it is so much better than anything else, not a cheap thing to do but the results are worth it.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 11.03. 2017 23:04
It's been a while but I have been running with the upgraded 12V dynamo (Stage 1) for a while now and am happy enough to move on to a Stage 2 to improve the headlight beam.

To that end I have bought some kit from Paul Goff - felt a bit like Christmas this morning whilst unpacking the goodies!

I bought:
Wipac H4 headlamp shell with pilot – special shallow reflector to allow for the A10s speedo cable which intrudes into the headlight nacelle – p/n HLW4700
45/40W halogen headlight bulb – p/n B1245P43TQ
1.5W LED pilot lamp and holder – p/n LDT10DW
LED Stop/tail light board (apparently the LED bulbs can’t take the vibration) – p/n LB12
LED Speedo bulb – p/n LDBA9SW


I will feed back when it's all fitted and tested.

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 11.03. 2017 23:59
looks like a good upgrade - you'll like that reflector
just watch the watts - the e3l is nominally 60w tho some of those 12v rewinds claim 80w. the more you draw the hotter they get. depending on what you do with those sidelights (the bin comes to mind) you could exceed 60w quite easily, even with an led board on the back
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 12.03. 2017 09:33
Hi Mike and thanks for the feedback.

The 12v dynamo is rated at 65W and my maths on the total current draw looks like this:
Headlight - max 45W on main beam
Tail light - 0.035A (not sure about the brake light and whether that's included)
Speedo bulb - 1.5W

Total is assumed to be less than 50W max with brake light on so should be safe?

The headlight pilot bulb apparently switches off when the headlight is on so I am ignoring it.

As you suggest the sidelights won't be used as I now have a (hopefully) bright LED pilot light.

However, if all goes well then I will be encouraged to revisit the possibility of fitting indicators- a big safety plus in my view  ;)

Brian


Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 12.03. 2017 09:54
...fitting indicators- a big safety plus in my view  ;)
After witnessing an accident caused by, A, rider forgetting to cancel his indicator and B, car driver pulling out assuming rider was turning, I disagree.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 12.03. 2017 10:06
I understand what you are saying and, because of the possibility of forgetting to cancel indicators, I put an annoying buzzer in my trail bikes to remind me to cancel.

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 12.03. 2017 20:13
i fully agree with indicators, especially if much city riding. the average car driver appears to think a hand signal is like a middle finger and a leg signal a sign of derangement. are you going to remove those side lights so people don't think they are indicators?

my a10 indicators (leds of course) have a buzzer which i can hear when stationary but no chance over the throaty roar of an A10. I've noticed now I have a modern (with fancy cancelling stuff) I'm more inclined to forget to turn the bsa indicators off  *eek*
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 14.03. 2017 14:11
I will probably replace the sidelights with indicators but at the moment they are doing a good job of holding it all together  *smile*
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: coater87 on 14.03. 2017 19:40
 Around here,

 Indicator use is optional if you are on the phone. Nobody uses them or pays attention to them anyway.

 Slower traffic stay to the right is everybody but the guy slowing the entire freeway up.

 The middle finger is considered a courtesy wave.

 I kid you not, its like a 50 mile free for all zone around my house. Only place I know of where you can have a four car pile up at a four way stop because everybody had to be first.

 Rules of the road mean nothing, they are just  mere suggestions.....

 Lee
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 25.03. 2017 09:05
I have only just got around to fitting the new headlight and tail light. Taking me a while. I really can't get on with the style of bullet connectors used - mostly brass.

The wires into the new pilot light (LED bulb being used and actually works when I remembered to swap the red and black wires to get the polarity right!) are very thin and didn't seem to lend themselves to the bullets as, once together, my guess is the wire would break trying to pull them apart in the future.

So I resorted to using Japanese bullet connectors which are a lot more sympathetic to small gauge wire. A big plus is that the insulators are clear plastic and you can actually check the connectors are in properly. Is this a big sin in classic bike world?

I fitted a 12v AGM battery because that's what I had on the bench - a Yuasa YTZ7S rated at 6Ah  - and all seemed well at the start but it doesn't hold its charge and the Optimate tells me its "Weak". Maybe that's why it was removed from its original home and parked on the bench. Anyways up, it's been on charge overnight and I will see how it is feeling this morning.

I think I know its deceased so my question is, what is your recommendation for a sensibly priced 12v lead acid battery that will, preferably fit the A10's battery box please?

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 25.03. 2017 22:00
I assume you've checked the dynamo? or least the battery charges before losing its charge without some vampire current draining from your new gadgets?

on my 12v bike I used 2x 6v cyclon monoblocs in series - together they fit inside a standard rubber battery box, with a slight squeeze. cyclons are a spiral lead acid gel. the 6v blocks have 3 cells in a moulding. hence two blocks in series makes 12v, 5AH. they get good press around classic bike circles.
have a look at paul goff's page - he shows them and alternatives: http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffybatteries.htm (http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffybatteries.htm)

i similarly gave up on the old style lucas bullet connectors - too big and clumsy, and prone to breaking wires when separating. instead i've used a lot of 4mm copper or plated bullets (not aluminium) and soldered them all for extra security. much easier to manage a bunch of those in the headlamp shell and for me function is more important than rivet counting on electrics.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: a101960 on 26.03. 2017 09:40
+1 for the cyclons. Fit and forget.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 26.03. 2017 21:57
I assume you've checked the dynamo? or least the battery charges before losing its charge without some vampire current draining from your new gadgets?

A very good point Mike!  I fitted a new ammeter whilst I had the headlight off as the old one didn't register much other than a slight flicker. The end result is that it does a grand job of registering a discharge when the lights are switched on but no positive charge is showing when the engine is running and revved so there is a problem twixt dynamo and battery.

I will take it step by step and check the dynamo is actually turning  with the engine before playing with the multimeter.

Is this http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=3089.msg21019#msg21019 (http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=3089.msg21019#msg21019) a good thread to follow or is there a better one showing a methodical check to identify the cause of no charging please?

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 26.03. 2017 22:26
if you remove the back cover off the dynamo you'll quickly see if its turning with the engine.

that thread's good enough. there's others also showing a similar pic of a bulb between ground and the two dynamo connections (green and yellow connected together, disconnected from the wiring loom) - like this one: http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=2681.0 (http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=2681.0)

if the bike has been off the road for a while then its possible there is no real problem, just a loss of magnetism. you can 'flash' the dynamo and see if that works, and/or just ride it for 100 miles and see if it lurches into life. that's what happened to mine. i copied this from a forum page once:
Quote
'flashing the field'. Connect the battery live side (the one you want to be live!) to dynamo F for a couple of seconds with the battery earth attached to the frame. You'll see from the ammeter afterwards whether you've got it right - if not, the needle will go the wrong way.

also once you have voltage from the dynamo then if still not charging...  regulator. i cant recall your situation - if its an old lucas mechanical then you'll need to read up some thread and steel yourself for some dark arts. if its a DVR2 then you are probably good to go.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 27.03. 2017 09:02
I may be teaching my parents parent to remove the contents of eggs but...

If the battery is fully charged you will not see a positive swing on the ammeter.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 09:34
Some good pointers there - thanks guys!

I seem to have a combination of electrickery issues on my A10  *sad2*

I wasted ages putting the headlight on and taking it off trying to suss out why the lights weren't working until I sussed the light switch is faulty and has to be fiddled with in the lights on position for the lights to work.

I attach a photo of the switch. Can anyone tell me if it is an original (to the A10) switch and if I can dismantle it to clean up contacts or whatever to get it functioning properly please?

Brian
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: duTch on 27.03. 2017 09:59

 Apart from upside down, It's also diffo. to both the ones I have. The older one has four positions with 'OFF' at the left, I think 2nd pos '1' does nothing, '2' does park/town/side light+tail/whatever, and 4th position '3' does tail/headlight.
 When I figured I had maybe similar issues to you  *dunno*, I bought an aftermarket switch a year or so ago, and does the same ('OFF' at left) but without a dummy '1' position, but I found the wiring to be different too
 Have pics somewhere, I'll try dig'em out
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: JulianS on 27.03. 2017 10:22
This is the headlight switch fitted to my A10. It goes OFF L H. They dont dismantle easily because the terminal with external link to the rotor is soldered. The rotor runs in the bakelite of the body. First 2 photos

Other versions of the switch have an internal contact and are easier to dismantle and clean. Also OFF L H position. The rotor runs in a brass sleeve in the body with an internal link to terminal 5. Last 2 photos.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 27.03. 2017 10:35
This is the headlight switch fitted to my A10. It goes OFF L H.

The function of the switch is Off, Pilot light, Headlamp with dipswitch on the handlebars

Edit: At least, on my '55 Plunger machine.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 10:44
Hmmm... Mine is P for just parking and tail ligts, OFF in the centre and Headlights on to the Right. I got nothing to lose by getting the switch off and having a look to see if I can clean up the contacts.

I have removed the unused sidelights which bolted through the headlight and surround and am struggling to find short bolts that match the threads in the headlight nacelle. I think the part number is 0590-46 and possibly 5/16 x 26 tpi?  Are these likely to be correct http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-5-16-BSCy-x1-2-26TPI-Stainless-Hex-Setscrews-Triumph-BSA-Cycle-Thread-Bolts-/370760120564?hash=item56530678f4:g:bvIAAOxyA9dSVlM~ (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-5-16-BSCy-x1-2-26TPI-Stainless-Hex-Setscrews-Triumph-BSA-Cycle-Thread-Bolts-/370760120564?hash=item56530678f4:g:bvIAAOxyA9dSVlM~)
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 27.03. 2017 10:51
I bought lovely shiny bolts from Draganfly. They are longer than I expected but means less chance of losing one if it works loose.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 27.03. 2017 10:51
your switch a bit unusual. the older ones were i think a u39 which is like greybeard said - tho i thought it has only 3 positions where dutch says 4. the latter ones are a 41SA that have an extra contact set tho i cant reall what for. or at least 41sa is the replacement -easy to find. like dutch says they centre bit may be soldered, but that didn't stop me having a  go at it - nothing to lose and they do clean up. find a wiring diagram for reassembly  as its not intuitive.

the other point to note is the spring force to keep contact pressure - my b33 switch wobbles around a bit to get the lights to stay on but i think variable lighting is called a feature on a bsa.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 27.03. 2017 10:53
You might try electrical contact cleaner spray.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 27.03. 2017 10:58
and from memory the bolts are 26tpi unless someone has forced a metric or unf thread in with those sidelights - you may want to check before your next online order - do you have a thread gauge? or spare cycle thread bolt?
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: JulianS on 27.03. 2017 12:53
With non standard type switch I would expect the wiring to switch needs to be different from the standard A10 wiring diagram.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Topdad on 27.03. 2017 13:18
Brian, as a compromise why not fit an LED to the rear ,simple to use just fit as the old bulb did and free up more Watts for the headlight ?
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 16:09
and from memory the bolts are 26tpi unless someone has forced a metric or unf thread in with those sidelights - you may want to check before your next online order - do you have a thread gauge? or spare cycle thread bolt?


I have taken a chance and ordered the 24tpi bolts - only just over £4 delivered. If they are wrong then I am sure I will be able to use them at some point.

I have a set of thread gauges but I am not the best at using them on internal threads  *sad2*
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 16:10
With non standard type switch I would expect the wiring to switch needs to be different from the standard A10 wiring diagram.

I think I will be taking photos and drawing diagrams before disconnect the wires  ;)
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 16:20
Brian, as a compromise why not fit an LED to the rear ,simple to use just fit as the old bulb did and free up more Watts for the headlight ?

I have fitted one of Paul Goff's Mk2 LED Stop/Tail Lightboard - LB12 but I think, as well as other electrical problems, I may also have a faulty brake light switch  *sad2*

My mate following me yesterday said that the brake light started with intermittent flashing rather than flickering, like I was resting my foot on a sensitive brake pedal (which I wasn't), then it stayed on for a while, then off for no longer than 5 seconds before flickering & off & on again.

So another bit of investigation needed!
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: duTch on 27.03. 2017 16:39

 ^^^Might be adjusted wrong?
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 16:49

 ^^^Might be adjusted wrong?

That's what I am hoping! A bit of TLC, a good spray of electrical contact cleaner and proper adjustment will sort it - I hope  *smile*
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 27.03. 2017 20:33
you might be right on that headlamp bolt brian - a now half recall it was bsf, so dont trust my memory (i don't).
while you are at it, and for more unsolicited advice, if you have an old dodgy switch and a new high current headlamp then 2 other fairly easy upgrades are a relay to offload the current from the tired old hi-lo beam switch and a separate thick earth wire going directly from the headlamp ground to where the battery ground attaches to the frame. the earthing can be random on these bikes and impaired by things like grease i the head bearings etc.
your bike is now 12v not 6v, so those little losses are less significant on final voltage tho still worth avoiding. and besides, if you get all this work finished too soon you'll have to go and ride it and that's dangerous!
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 27.03. 2017 20:39
Thanks for the tips Mike - much appreciated!

Brian

PS No danger of the bike not being ridden. Thankfully the days are getting longer so lights are not a real issue  *smile*   See http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11566.0 (http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11566.0)

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: duTch on 28.03. 2017 23:33

 Probably not applicable here but figure I'll mention it anyway...yesterday I felt the need to run with lights on in daylight (idiot visibility), but when leaving after a cold drinks, I saw the headlight shining on the wall but no tail light... No brake light either  *problem*; aha- LED and low voltage don't mix, but as soon as I fired up all was well.

 Just something to keep in mind when running LEDs
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Scott and Jay on 29.03. 2017 03:49
Yes, Dutch

That is exactly what happened to me - even when I had just turned the Headlight on. Couldn't get anything from my LED tail/brake light. This was because my battery was on the way out, however. With a new Motobatt battery - the LED tail light stays on when I switch the Headlight on. It would go out soon, before the headlight - if I left it without charging, I suspect..
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 29.03. 2017 08:43
Every day's a school day!
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 03.04. 2017 11:16
I have removed the unused sidelights which bolted through the headlight and surround and am struggling to find short bolts that match the threads in the headlight nacelle. I think the part number is 0590-46 and possibly 5/16 x 26 tpi?  Are these likely to be correct http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-5-16-BSCy-x1-2-26TPI-Stainless-Hex-Setscrews-Triumph-BSA-Cycle-Thread-Bolts-/370760120564?hash=item56530678f4:g:bvIAAOxyA9dSVlM~ (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-5-16-BSCy-x1-2-26TPI-Stainless-Hex-Setscrews-Triumph-BSA-Cycle-Thread-Bolts-/370760120564?hash=item56530678f4:g:bvIAAOxyA9dSVlM~)

I don't think my headlight nacelle is the standard one as the bolts I bought are about a third the size I need. I will probably carry on using nuts and bolts until I can find the right ones  *sad2*
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: mikeb on 03.04. 2017 11:30
sounds frustrating. are you sure the ones you received match the description of the part number? theres a spreadsheet on the forum somewhere with most bolts listing their size thread etc
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: Greybeard on 03.04. 2017 12:13
This is what I bought from Draganfly.

https://www.draganfly.co.uk/index.php/accessories-a-misc/product/1174-
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 03.04. 2017 12:16
sounds frustrating. are you sure the ones you received match the description of the part number? theres a spreadsheet on the forum somewhere with most bolts listing their size thread etc

They are as advertised so its my fault  *sad2*

I will get the headlight out again and try and measure properly.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: chaterlea25 on 03.04. 2017 17:57
Hi Brian,
Original headlight and almost all other 5/16ths fasteners on BSA A10's etc are 26 tpi, cycle thread (the same as an old front cycle axle)
"Spurious" replica headlamps I have found to be  5/16 UNF

John
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 31.07. 2017 19:15
In a senior moment I forgot about this thread and started a new one on headlight bolts but I will let that one run and take this thread back to my A10's lighting.

After issues with trying to wire up the upgraded 12v dynamo (my fault - turned out I had trapped a dynamo wire under the tank breaking the insulation and allowing it to short against the frame) I eventually got it sorted and the dynamo is charging perfectly through the DVR2 regulator.

Turning to the non-sealed beam headlight, HLW4700 with 45/40W bulb, I thought I had a faulty bulb as there was such a difference between the bright white main beam and the dull orange glow of dipped beam. My very patient supplier sent a replacement bulb but it performs in the same way. To rule out the dip switch and wiring I swapped the leads around and the bulb lights the same - bright white main and dull orange dipped beams.

I thought that maybe I had another faulty bulb but tried a spare 35/35W halogen bulb and got the same result. 

I really wouldn't have expected such a difference between main and dip especially on the 35/35W bulb where both beams are drawing the same amount of current. The bulbs are seating properly in the reflector.

Do other owners experience the same please?

Photos below:

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: chaterlea25 on 31.07. 2017 19:24
Hi Brian,
You have the bulb connector wired incorrectly, the dull light is both filaments in series
The earth is one of the side connections not the centre

John
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: JulianS on 31.07. 2017 19:31
Looking directly at the back of the H4 bulb the earth is on the left, dip in middle and main on right.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: BrianS on 31.07. 2017 20:08
Brilliant diagnosis! Now sorted  *smile*

It turns out that the blue wire on the headlight connector is the earth - now why would I have thought the black wire was the earth  *conf*

Every day is a school day here....

Brian

Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: rocker21 on 07.08. 2017 10:36
for my A7ss i bought a cibie headlight unit with an H4 fitting and a pilot light, bought one of Paul Goffs LED hedlight bulbs and led stop tail light bulb as well, absolutely brilliant, good light pattern and my total lighting load is less than 30 watts, bit expensive to buy all the bits, but i live out in the country with poor street lights and sometime none at all as they often don't work , so good lights are a must., done basically the same with my bantam, cibie unit led lights all round as that only has a 50 watt alternator ,
done my 2 older motoguzzi bikes as well,  so i am a big fan of led lights and if things are done right you get a good result.
Title: Re: Headlight option recommendations for a newly upgraded 6v to 12v A10
Post by: a101960 on 07.08. 2017 10:49
I have done the same thing, only I retained the the original Lucas lens and reflector. Unless I "blip" the throttle I never see my ammeter move any more.