The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: hdawson on 22.08. 2017 11:34

Title: 12V Conversion
Post by: hdawson on 22.08. 2017 11:34
Hi all.
I'm wanting  to do the 12 V conversion thing.
Seems straightforward but I have a few questions.
Will my ammeter fry at the higher voltage?
Also does anyone in AUS know where I can buy a 12V headlight insert to replace my 6V so I can retain the original nacelle.
Preferably not a sealed beam so I can fit a LED bulb.
Then I might even consider indicators!
Thanks in advance for any advise.

Cheers, Hadrian.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: RoyC on 22.08. 2017 12:10
Hi all.
I'm wanting  to do the 12 V conversion thing.
Seems straightforward but I have a few questions.
Will my ammeter fry at the higher voltage?
Also does anyone in AUS know where I can buy a 12V headlight insert to replace my 6V so I can retain the original nacelle.
Preferably not a sealed beam so I can fit a LED bulb.
Then I might even consider indicators!
Thanks in advance for any advise.

Cheers, Hadrian.
I have done all that you want to do but my supplier is UK based.  -  http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/  -  He will ship worldwide.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: KiwiGF on 22.08. 2017 12:26
Hi all.
I'm wanting  to do the 12 V conversion thing.
Seems straightforward but I have a few questions.
Will my ammeter fry at the higher voltage?
Also does anyone in AUS know where I can buy a 12V headlight insert to replace my 6V so I can retain the original nacelle.
Preferably not a sealed beam so I can fit a LED bulb.
Then I might even consider indicators!
Thanks in advance for any advise.
Cheers, Hadrian.


Your ammeter will actually have less work, as all things being equal when the voltage doubles the amps will halve.

I've just built my b31 with a dvr2 set up to regulate at 12v instead of the normal 6v, the b31 has the same Lucas Dynamo as the A10 albeit it rotates a bit faster I suspect,  I just had to buy a 12v bulb for the headlight and rear light to rake the extra volts, the non std 6v horn I retained as 12v just makes it louder  *smile* , I've got the original Lucas type headlight glass/reflector that takes "BPF" type bulbs, and the only problem was the local automotive electrical supplier only had 12v BPF bulbs in 40/50 watt which is a bit more watts than I wanted, but it still charges on dip beam, and breaks even on main.

I'm pretty sure any Hella brand stockists can supply a reflector which would fit the std headlamp shell, and take halogen bulbs, if you can't use your current one, though I am not sure what sort of reflector you want instead of what you have now *dunno*
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: Angus on 23.08. 2017 08:01
I think I will be converting the A7 to 12v during the winter. I have done everything I can think of and still the lights are poor. Nearly lost her the other night with a honda behind me, all I could see was my shadow and then a nice grassy bank that I used as corner banking, lucky no ditch.
Anyway easy job for me as I have a DVR2, so a wire cut, put the batteries in series and change of bulbs. I think I will get a headlight shell that takes a standard H4 bulb.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: JulianS on 23.08. 2017 08:57
There is signficant variation in directed light output from the various H4 light units available.

I tried a "new" Lucas domed glass H4 light unit and found the output quite poorly directed. Changed to an "old" Lucas flat glass H4 unit and found it had a much better beam pattern on dip and main but they dont make these anymore.

The Wipac quodoptic unit is also quite good.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: duTch on 23.08. 2017 09:43

 I have a H4 Hella reflector on my A10, and a Narva reflector on the Gutzzi, but the Hella has a much better spread but not cheap from Repco/Ashdown Ingram .(Posted about that recently).

 I've bought bits from Classic  Auto lighting http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/index.html (http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/index.html)
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: mikeb on 23.08. 2017 12:11
you can get a very good 6v h4 led from the uk: the 5th gen one here:http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/led-bulbs-especially-for-motorcycles-shop.php (http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/led-bulbs-especially-for-motorcycles-shop.php)
you'll need the h4 reflector unless you wish to 'hack' it in the bpf reflector with cable ties (like my b33 - works fine but the light is less focussed). i went ocd on this topic somewhere with pics showing the various options -search the archives. my sr is still 6v and perfectly bright enough with the correct leds. and 6v charges at lower revs.

if you really want to go 12v replace the bulbs (front and rear), replace the regulator (fit a dvr2), replace the battery (a cyclon is my favourite) and that's it. no need to rewind the genny. the 6v horn will survive unless you drive like in india. don't buy one of those cheap leds with fans on the back. noisier than your bsa. i stress tested one for heat (like in a headlamp shell) and its lasted about one hour
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: Black Sheep on 23.08. 2017 13:46
I have yet to find a LED headlight bulb that actually illuminates the bit of the road in front of you. Hopeless for night riding. Good stop/tail bulbs though.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: rocker21 on 23.08. 2017 16:13
fit a cibie Z beam light unit, much better focused and is an H4 fitting, then you can get an LED headlight that is very bright and only uses about 20 watts and gives a great beam for riding on country roads at night, i live in a small village on top of a hill and the roads are very poor and street lights don't exist!!! Paul goff sells some very good ones and so do classic dynamo conversions, both are good, even fitted one to my bantam and if that 50watt wipac generator can keep up with it then so can a 60 watt dynamo.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: RoyC on 23.08. 2017 19:34
I have yet to find a LED headlight bulb that actually illuminates the bit of the road in front of you. Hopeless for night riding. Good stop/tail bulbs though.

I have fitted one of these (special offer £62-50), I hope it lives up to the claims. -  http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyWhyNotLEDs.htm
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: mikeb on 23.08. 2017 20:51
Quote
I have yet to find a LED headlight bulb that actually illuminates the bit of the road in front of you
Have you tried the type I mentioned? road tests here fine
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 24.08. 2017 10:56
you can get a very good 6v h4 led from the uk: the 5th gen one here:http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/led-bulbs-especially-for-motorcycles-shop.php (http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/led-bulbs-especially-for-motorcycles-shop.php)
you'll need the h4 reflector unless you wish to 'hack' it in the bpf reflector with cable ties (like my b33 - works fine but the light is less focussed). i went ocd on this topic somewhere with pics showing the various options -search the archives. my sr is still 6v and perfectly bright enough with the correct leds. and 6v charges at lower revs.

if you really want to go 12v replace the bulbs (front and rear), replace the regulator (fit a dvr2), replace the battery (a cyclon is my favourite) and that's it. no need to rewind the genny. the 6v horn will survive unless you drive like in india. don't buy one of those cheap leds with fans on the back. noisier than your bsa. i stress tested one for heat (like in a headlamp shell) and its lasted about one hour

Have you actually ridden with that double dipper at night.
My high pressure halogen parking bulb put out a better riding light than the very expensive, highly over rated but totally useless double dipper 6 V LED piece of lethal garbage.

It might work better on 12 V considering they are rated for 6 V to 48 V but mine was lethal at any speed over 10 mph on a road with no street lights.
By far the best 6V light I have ever used was a Hella 6V Halogen in an old Kombi waggon reflector which fits perfectly inside a Lucas shell.
The globe is the size of a golf ball with a very long element so you gest a really strong solid beam.
The Double dipper was good for reading a map 2' away from the headlamp but dangerous on the road.
You can tell they know that the globe is garbage by all the blame they direct towards the reflector thus making purchasers believe it is their fault that the light does not work.
Any one with 1/2 a brain should be able to see that a single CRE LED with a beam angle of 120 deg, sitting on a stick that throws a shadow over 1/2 the reflector can not work.
So all you get is the reflected light from that 120 deg cone bouncing off the reflector which accounts for a touch less than 1/4 of the reflecting surface of the reflector or 1/2 when both LEDs are energised.
Thus on high beam you get an elongated figure of 8 beam of light which throws a strong shadow of the front wheel over the ground it is about to roll over, no side illumination at the waist of the "8" and some feeble light in front of the shadow while all of the oncoming cars flash you because the light at the top of the "8" is in their eyes.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: mikeb on 24.08. 2017 11:13
Quote
Have you actually ridden with that double dipper at night.
yes i have. a double dipper is hopeless. that's why i next  bought the 6v 5th gen LED as per that link. its great. they are very different bulbs, and have very different price tags. have another look at that page. its the big black h4 fitting. pic below off that site. not a fanboy, just happy customer. i tried a lot of bulbs before this one.

or... you could just buy a large wattage halogen and hope you don't burn out your genny... your choice
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 25.08. 2017 08:52
Quote
Have you actually ridden with that double dipper at night.
yes i have. a double dipper is hopeless. that's why i next  bought the 6v 5th gen LED as per that link. its great. they are very different bulbs, and have very different price tags. have another look at that page. its the big black h4 fitting. pic below off that site. not a fanboy, just happy customer. i tried a lot of bulbs before this one.

or... you could just buy a large wattage halogen and hope you don't burn out your genny... your choice

My appologies.
They were the only people flogging the double dip ( into your pocket ) er .
And boldly singing its praises .
Thus I wrongly assumed that was the bulb you were linked to.

However having been skinned £ 90 by that mob who have the morals of an alley cat there is no way I will ever send them a single red penny ever again nor direct any one towards them or any of their products as they are not to be trusted.
IMHO they should be prosecuted for claiming that the Double Dipper is suitable for motorcycle use, it is a strait out FRAUD and they must know it as they claim to have tested all their LED lamps.
Before I blew the last of my stock of 6V 24/24 tungstens I used to ride the M20 a lot at night with no problems at all.
The A 10 & B 40 both run Bosch Halogens and give excellent light and I was hoping the DD would allow me to ride the M20 at night again as every new 6V 24/24 I have bought in receint times the glass fell out of the base
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: mikeb on 25.08. 2017 11:57
sounds like you got burned Trevor... £90?? i would not be happy.  i do agree those double dippers are double trouble. i just re-read the doubly dubious blurb on that page and agree its nothing like the actual performance of the one i got, which was weak and unfocused. diabolically dim. dangerously dull.
its certainly hard to buy a second time when you feel robbed. i've been amazed with the a10 at how many new parts are unfit for purpose. but that's another topic that's already been done to a double death
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: duTch on 25.08. 2017 23:14

 So Trev, I'm a bit confused where you bought your Duddly-Dipper from and to NOT buy from there....?

 Even £60 / $~90 for the ' 6v 5th gen LED' is a bit of a slug, but if it's guaranteed to do the job will ease the pain...
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 26.08. 2017 09:02
From Dynamo conversions UK
And they GUARANTED the Double Dipper would work.
Mr Pearson also sells the double dipper now, he didn't when I bought my pair , but at least he is honest and shows the garbage light it produces.
The other mob of burgulars simply sang it praises and threw any blame back onto the customer for having a dud reflector.
Mine was resilvered ( real silver not chrome ) about 10 years back and is in perfect condition.
as they say, fooled me once , shame on you fool me twice, shame on me
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: Dynamo Regulators Mike on 26.08. 2017 09:52
Their full business name is CLASSIC DYNAMO & REGULATOR CONVERSIONS LTD (CDRC)
Not to be confused with the Company I run (simply Dynamo Regulators Ltd), known here primarily as originators of the DVR2 regulator.

Unfortunately early on CDRC chose a URL of dynamoregulatorconversions.com. Which has meant that customers are inclined to confuse the two outfits when searching for a website. I warned them at the time, c'est la guerre!
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: duTch on 26.08. 2017 10:34

 Thanks Trev and Mike for the clarifications, Mike I don't see lighting on your site, do you not do it anyway(not that I'm in the market at the mo-just curios)...?

 http://dynamoregulators.com/ (http://dynamoregulators.com/)
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: Black Sheep on 26.08. 2017 14:24
It was this mob CLASSIC DYNAMO & REGULATOR CONVERSIONS LTD (CDRC) who sold me the useless LED headlight bulbs. 
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: mikeb on 26.08. 2017 23:32
don't want to break up a good lynching here, and do agree those double dippers are diabolical (tho maybe ok as daytime running lights). and I am surprised they keep selling them (maybe they bought a million themselves.)
HOWEVER i think the context is LED technology is only now (2017) recently viable as a solution for many things. I've only yesterday put LED lights in our dining room as prior to this point I thought them dull or glarey or 'thin' (I think the technical jargon is low CRI).

What CDRC has done is offer a 6v solution for our bikes and when i last looked no one else was (now it looks like Goffy also offers a 'double trouble' 6V look-alike  *eek*). CDRC appear to also have invested in bringing their 5th gen 6V to market. and they work well (for me at least, tho if you buy one and are unhappy don't lynch me). BTW their 12v 5th gen works even slightly better than the 6v.

So yes, CDRC continue to overhype the inadequate double dipper. And also yes, CDRC are the only outfit I can find who have invested in a decent solution for us 6-volters who want  more lumens on an old lucas E3L. I think they deserve to live.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: duTch on 27.08. 2017 00:24

 mikeb- is that where you bought yours (as as per your link) ?  For £60 GBP ?
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: mikeb on 27.08. 2017 00:34
sure is - double trouble and 5th gen (6v and 12v)
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: duTch on 27.08. 2017 01:30

 At that price (£60gbp) I think I'll persevere with my 6v/35W halogen which at least sometimes might let people know I'm coming even if I don't always see where I'm going *eek*

 
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: Dynamo Regulators Mike on 27.08. 2017 10:54

 Thanks Trev and Mike for the clarifications, Mike I don't see lighting on your site, do you not do it anyway(not that I'm in the market at the mo-just curios)...?


That's right. No lighting from us. Sticking to our area of expertise, electronic replacement regulators. Keeps me and my wife busy, with all the variants, bikes, cars, trucks up to 40 Amps. The only exception is our A7/10 dynamo drive kit.

LED headlights are changing rapidly, as 5 'generations' in fewer years indicates. So much competition around and as a small business you need to find a market niche to survive. All LED lamps suffer from production of a good amount of heat. If not dealt with reliability suffers. The 1,000's of hours reliability figures cited usually refers to LED manufacturers data, with chips run within their ratings at modest temperatures. In practice a bit of a lottery. Sadly the LED's with warmer light output (where the eye works better) are less efficient so more heat again.

As far as inadequate products on the market go I am puzzled at how some regulators continue to sell year after year despite well reported shortcomings. Check out the extravagant claims before parting with the cash. It's a free market I guess but caveat emptor! (buyer beware!).
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: Greybeard on 27.08. 2017 11:16
....I am puzzled at how some regulators continue to sell year after year despite well reported shortcomings. Check out the extravagant claims before parting with the cash. It's a free market I guess but caveat emptor! (buyer beware!).
I can recomend the DVR2; it's a fit and forget item.  *smile* . Thank you.
Title: Re: 12V Conversion
Post by: a101960 on 27.08. 2017 14:00
Quote
I can recomend the DVR2; it's a fit and forget item.
Yep, same here, had mine for a number of years well pleased with it. When I bought my bike it was fitted with a regulator that was just to awful for words.