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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: A10 JWO on 16.09. 2017 15:22

Title: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: A10 JWO on 16.09. 2017 15:22


Agree or not?

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/roadworthiness-testing-for-vehicles-of-historic-interest

The outcome from the ‘Roadworthiness testing for vehicles of historic interest’ consultation was released on 14 September 2017.

We have decided that most vehicles over 40 years old (on a rolling basis) will now be exempt from MOT testing.

Those that have been ‘substantially changed’ will still require yearly testing. We have prepared draft guidance as to what constitutes “substantial change” in the context of old vehicles. We plan to finalise the guidance during November 2017. If you have any questions or feedback about it please contact roadworthinesstesting@dft.gsi.gov.uk.
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burnside
 
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Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exemption
Unread postby burnside » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Vehicles of Historical Interest (VHI): “Substantial Change” Draft Guidance
Most vehicles first registered over 40 years ago will as of 20 May 2018 be exempt from periodic testing, unless they have been substantially changed1.
Public Service Vehicles (PSVs) with 12 or more seats and large goods vehicles (i.e. goods vehicles with a maximum laden weight of more than 3.5 tonnes) will not be subject to a general exemption from periodic testing at 40 years and will be within the testing regime.
The criteria for substantial change
A vehicle will be considered to have been substantially changed (and hence not to have been historically preserved or maintained in its original state and to have undergone substantial changes in the technical characteristics of its main components) if it meets one of the following criteria. Such vehicles will not be considered of historical interest and will be continue to be subject to vehicle testing.
Criterion 1
If a vehicle has a power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988.
Criterion 2 If a vehicle:
 has been issued with a registration number with a ‘Q’ prefix; or
 is a kit car assembled from components from different makes and model of
vehicle; or
 is a reconstructed classic vehicle as defined by DVLA guidance; or
 is a kit conversion, where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle, or
old parts are added to a kit of a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell changing the general appearance of the vehicle.
While reconstructed classic vehicles and kit conversions can have age-related registration numbers that are more than forty years old, they are not VHIs. Radically altered vehicles should have registration plates with a “Q” prefix, but if a keeper considers they have such a vehicle with an original registration plate they should either test it or establish whether it is a radically altered vehicle.
There are existing DVLA processes for registering reconstructed classic vehicles, kit conversions, and radically altered vehicles with the latter making use of the 8 point rule. (https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration).
1 If the type of vehicle is still in production, it is not exempt from periodic testing.
If the keeper of a vehicle of more than forty years old is uncertain about whether the vehicle meets either of the two criteria, then they should seek professional advice. For example, the advice of a qualified mechanic or a historical vehicle expert.
The process for vehicle keepers declaring an old vehicle is exempt from testing
Every year vehicle keepers are required to licence their vehicle. Part of this process includes paying Vehicle Excise Duty (Vehicle Tax). Where the vehicle that year is over 40 years old at the beginning of January then from April of that year the vehicle keeper is exempt from paying this tax. The vehicle keeper must apply for the exemption from tax at a Post Office that deals with vehicle tax. Further advice can be found via the following link:
https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles/ve ... ehicle-tax
It is intended that alterations be made to these processes to take account of the “substantial change” rule related to vehicle testing.
On-Line
Please note the first time you apply to licence your vehicle in the historic tax class you must apply at the Post Office. Subsequent re-licensing transactions can be completed on-line.
Where the vehicle keeper is re-licensing their vehicle on-line it is intended that an additional question be asked whether the vehicle has a current MOT and the vehicle keeper will be required to declare that their vehicle has not been substantially changed since 1988. Appropriate safeguards will be in place that will prevent a vehicle keeper from declaring the vehicle is over 40 years of age and progressing to the next stage of the licensing process before first declaring or not as to whether their vehicle has been substantially changed.
At the Post Office
Where the vehicle keeper is licensing their vehicle at the Post Office it is intended that an amendment will be made to form V112 to enable keepers of historical vehicles to declare their vehicle is exempt from requiring an MOT.

Draft Advice (not part of the Draft Guidance)
What do I need to do if I am responsible for a vehicle aged more than 40 years old and first registered in or after 1960?
From 20 May 2018 most of these vehicles will not need a valid MOT certificate to be used on public roads. You still need to keep the vehicle in a roadworthy condition and can voluntarily have a test. We recommend continued regular maintenance and checks of the vehicle.
You need to check whether the vehicle has been substantially altered since 1988, checking against the criteria (in the guidance above). If it has been altered substantially a valid MOT certificate will continue to be required. If you are unsure check, for example from a qualified mechanic or expert on historic vehicles. If you buy a vehicle, we also recommend checking with the previous owner if you can.
If your vehicle is exempt from needing an MOT test (and you do not choose to do not have a valid MOT certificate for it) you will need to declare this when you apply for the exemption from road tax.
What do I need to do if I am responsible for a vehicle first registered before 1960?
These vehicles are already exempt from the requirement for a valid MOT certificate to be used on public roads. You still need to keep the vehicle in a roadworthy condition and can voluntarily have a test. We recommend continued regular maintenance and checks of the vehicle.
You need to check whether the vehicle has been substantially altered since 1988 checking against the criteria (in the guidance above). If it has been altered substantially, an MOT certificate will be required for its use on public roads from 20th May 2018, even if the vehicle has previously not required an MOT.
If your vehicle is exempt from needing an MOT test (and you do not have a valid MOT certificate for it) you will need to declare this when you apply for the exemption from road tax.

If you are responsible for a large goods vehicle (more than 3.5 tonnes) or public service vehicle (with 12 or more passenger seats), you will continue to require a valid test certificate.
If you are responsible for a large goods vehicle (more than 3.5 tonnes) or a public service vehicle (with 12 or more passenger seats), you will require a valid test certificate if the vehicle has been substantially altered since 1988 or if, in the case of
a goods vehicle, it is used when laden or towing a trailer.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: RichardL on 16.09. 2017 15:56
I reserve the right to agree or disagree should I ever choose to read it or move to the UK. ;)

Richard L.










Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Greybeard on 16.09. 2017 17:28
As I have a ve-hickle that no longer requires annual testing I'm not likely to disagree with others taking advantage of the new rules.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: A10 JWO on 16.09. 2017 17:42
Which Greybeard is this ?  *smile*
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: nimrod650 on 16.09. 2017 17:46
is it true that some insurance providers on classics wont insure without an mot? and if you are involved in an accident proving the vehicle was roadworthy can be a minefield
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Greybeard on 16.09. 2017 17:49
Which Greybeard is this ?  *smile*

I AM GREYBEARD......no, I am Greybeard....no, I am Greybeard..etc.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: bsa-bill on 16.09. 2017 17:54
will solve the untaxed ride to get a bike MOT'd
My Flash currently on SORN. at present I have to ride to the MOT shop before I can tax it, ok the police will turn a blind eye (maybe) if you inform the shop before hand, always a nervous ride in tho
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Greybeard on 16.09. 2017 18:40
is it true that some insurance providers on classics wont insure without an mot? and if you are involved in an accident proving the vehicle was roadworthy can be a minefield

Yes, I'd like to know if that's the case.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: ellis on 16.09. 2017 19:31
If you pre book your M O T with your testing station you will be covered by law to ride to the station for your M O T test. That said you must not deviate and take the most direct route to the testing station or you will leave yourself liable to prosecution.  Roll on 20th of May next year for those of us are responsible owners.   *smile* *smile*


ELLIS
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: bsa-bill on 16.09. 2017 21:02
Quote
If you pre book your M O T with your testing station you will be covered by law .....

That's the bit I wondered about, the laws one thing insurance is another
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: edboy on 16.09. 2017 21:42
most historic vehicle mechanics are either dead or retired. some motorcycle shops cant change a tyre with an innertube fitted due to the labour involved. so where are these classic bike experts to advise roadworthy condition. most owners are their own experts but i m sticking to mot s from now on as its something in my defence if i m knocked off and told i should not be riding my historic classic bsa.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: JulianS on 17.09. 2017 08:37
So reading above if the bike is a reconstructed classic then it will need an MOT??

Built from parts of more than one bike accoeding to DVLA website;

Get an age-related registration number
DVLA can only recognise your vehicle as a reconstructed classic vehicle if it meets certain criteria. It must be:

built from genuine period components from more than one vehicle, all over 25 years old and of the same specification as the original vehicle
a true reflection of the marque
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 17.09. 2017 09:26
If you pre book your M O T with your testing station you will be covered by law to ride to the station for your M O T test. That said you must not deviate and take the most direct route to the testing station or you will leave yourself liable to prosecution. 

ELLIS

You do have to have insurance to do that, though.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 17.09. 2017 09:31
is it true that some insurance providers on classics wont insure without an mot? and if you are involved in an accident proving the vehicle was roadworthy can be a minefield

Carole Nash have never raised the subject of getting a voluntary MoT on my 1957 bike.

A current MoT doesn't prove roadworthiness.  Let the Police prove unroadworthiness.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: cyclobutch on 18.09. 2017 07:43
most historic vehicle mechanics are either dead or retired. some motorcycle shops cant change a tyre with an innertube fitted due to the labour involved. so where are these classic bike experts to advise roadworthy condition. most owners are their own experts but i m sticking to mot s from now on as its something in my defence if i m knocked off and told i should not be riding my historic classic bsa.

No, not at £30 a pop. I had four of mine done in a day this year and paid up at the end. Ouch (and they all passed).
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Rex on 18.09. 2017 09:35
is it true that some insurance providers on classics wont insure without an mot? and if you are involved in an accident proving the vehicle was roadworthy can be a minefield

No it's not true, and the onus isn't on the owner/rider/driver to prove anything.
On the other hand, if your ancient rock-hard and visibly perished front tyre blows and you lose control hitting another car in the ensuing accident, then the insurance company do have the right to reduce any subsequent payout.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: bsa-bill on 25.04. 2018 19:38
A little clarification here https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mot-changes-20-may-2018 (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mot-changes-20-may-2018)

I intend to get my 61 flash MOT's , (currently sorned), what this means is that now ( well in May) I can get it taxed and ride to the MOT place legally, I have done this before but always making sure  I had an appointment made and didn't meet Mr Policeman in any bad circumstance.
Have just resprayed the front mudguard following an unfortunate accident in the shed, once this is fixed and an MOT acquired 61 Flash goes up for sale, leaving me with the Rocket Gold Flash to finish off and more time for riding and looking out for next (possibly lighter ) project
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: RogerSB on 25.04. 2018 23:00
I've always understood that an MOT only proves roadworthiness at the time it's examined - later the same day it could be unroadworthy *conf*
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: muskrat on 26.04. 2018 08:44
I like to have my bikes inspected in case there's something I missed. Down here for full registration it must be inspected yearly no matter it's age. For bikes +30 on club permit (historic registration) the club has designated inspectors who check the bike and fill a form that has to be presented to the registry office.
Cheers
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: cyclobutch on 26.04. 2018 08:47
I've always understood that an MOT only proves roadworthiness at the time it's examined - later the same day it could be unroadworthy *conf*

Yep that was my view.

I'm now in the position that only 4 of my 13 bikes legally need an MOT. I'm happy to enjoy the savings on those costs ... however misguided.
 
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Greybeard on 26.04. 2018 08:59
I like to have my bikes inspected in case there's something I missed.
I can see the value of that but here I wouldn't take my bike to a bike shop; they wouldn't have a clue. They probably couldn't even start it! Also of course, classic vehicles have different testing standards; eg. exhaust emissions which means testers need to know the rules.

I don't think the BSAOC or VMCC would have the resources to check machines.

I feel confident in my abilities to keep my bike safe.
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Rex on 26.04. 2018 09:57
Indeed, and as it should be. The MoT test is so basic on "our" bikes that the possibility of them finding something we can't is miniscule. If someone can't check tyres brakes and lights etc should they be riding old BSA's?
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: bsa-bill on 26.04. 2018 10:43
Quote
I've always understood that an MOT only proves roadworthiness at the time it's examined - later the same day it could be unroadworthy

true, but once a year you have to get that bit of paper that states that on that day it was roadworthy, any vehicle anywhere could become unroadworhty in a second (puncture anyone), thankfully these days mechanical failure is a very rare thing compared to back in the day as they say
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: muskrat on 26.04. 2018 10:55
I was one of my clubs inspectors for over 10 years. 99% of the time the bikes were OK. Once in a while I'd get one trying to sneak through wit a sus tyre or chain/sprocket. Most classic bike riders maintain their bikes very well but there are some that haven't got a clue so I'll take their money.
Our test down here isn't that stringent. If the brakes and lights work and there isn't anything going to fall off your through.
Cheers
Title: Re: Rolling 40 year MOT Exempt. Yippe.
Post by: Topdad on 26.04. 2018 13:05
For years my testing station would only do the mot if the boss was in as the new mechanics(?) didn't have a clue with my bike, the Boss in turn told me he was taking money under false pretences as I knew more about my bike than he did ! After say always past the brake test which was the only thing that had any relavance  to actually being tested .