The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical (topic titles must be descriptive) => Frame => Topic started by: Greybeard on 17.09. 2017 17:57

Title: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 17.09. 2017 17:57
I will be needing new tyres/tires soon. I bought the traditional Avon Speedmaster and Safety mileage when I put the bike back on the road. I think the Avon's look proper; I don't like to see modern tyres on a 1950's bike, especially when you can see a large gap between the tyre and the mudguard/fender; however I don't think that squareish profile on the rear is conducive to good cornering. Can you recommend a tyre that looks good on an old bike yet gives good handling?
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: morris on 17.09. 2017 20:54
Mitas H02 at the rear, and H01 upfront. Keep 'em pumped up to 32-35 PSI
At the rear you can go up to a 4.00 width, wich I find way better looking than the usual 3.50, but that's up to anybody's taste...
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: bsa-bill on 17.09. 2017 20:55
I always preferred Dunlop profile ( more rounded )
360 x 19 Dunlop Tyre TT100 K81 available here and elsewhere https://www.feked.com/wheels/tyres-and-tubes/ (https://www.feked.com/wheels/tyres-and-tubes/)
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: madsens on 18.09. 2017 13:56
Avon Road Rider for me - yes I know, modern profile. Used to have spedmaster/SM on, but the Road Riders has transformed the bike in my opinion, I feel much more confident with them, used to have an unsure feeling with the speedmaster/SM when getting low in the corners or roundabouts, not with the Road Riders. So for me the looks come second to the safe feeling
regards
Joergen
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 18.09. 2017 14:48
Avon Road Rider for me - yes I know, modern profile. Used to have spedmaster/SM on, but the Road Riders has transformed the bike in my opinion, I feel much more confident with them, used to have an unsure feeling with the speedmaster/SM when getting low in the corners or roundabouts, not with the Road Riders. So for me the looks come second to the safe feeling
regards
Joergen
Thanks for that Joergen. I also feel unsure about leaning the bike over too much with Avon Safety Mileage on the back hence my question, however I'm not willing to put low profile modern tyres on a machine that's as close to original as I could get it so I'd like to hear other opinions on tyres that look ok and feel safe. I think my main objection to moderrn tyres is the large gapping between tyre and guard. Does the Dunlop K70 (https://goo.gl/W68Sgk (https://goo.gl/W68Sgk)) look ok? Anyone got a photo I can see?
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: JulianS on 18.09. 2017 14:55
A10 with Road Riders front and rear.

The rear is not much different in size to the dreadful Avon SM. The Road Rider front is a bit bigger than ribbed Avon Speedmaster.

Tyres for safe riding in my opinion.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 18.09. 2017 15:05
Those tyres look ok.

By the way: If you are about to put that dog in the rubbish can I have him?
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Angus on 18.09. 2017 15:11
Hi GB

K70s on the A10 pic attached
Avons on the A7 but it not at home at present so can not get a picture till later in the week.

added dont know why its posted upside down fine on phone and pc  *dunno*
pps and then it flaming well rained on the poor bike  *doh*


Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Topdad on 18.09. 2017 15:22
Hi GB , I swopped from speedmasters to road riders and can confirm that they are bloody marvelous really inspire confidence ,reasonably priced as well . *bright idea*
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 18.09. 2017 15:38
K70s on the A10 pic attached
I'm impressed with the grip of those tyres!

Seriously though those tyres look just the job. What size are they? Looks like you have the same tyre front and back.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Angus on 18.09. 2017 15:55
I thought I looked after my bikes and the A10 had an MOT in July (1961 so has to have one), just checking sizes for GB and the rear is bald !!!!!

Both Dunlop goldseal K70
Front 325-19
Back 350-19

Think I will order the same again, also need tyres for the A7 (showing some small cracks) and the Notrun, (so old there is no date on them but they are nice and soft and no cracks) which is running and clocking some miles.

I run a 4.10 (equivalent) avon roadrider on the rear of the A7, I have since I had it at 17 and see no reason to change now.

Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 18.09. 2017 16:21
I thought I looked after my bikes and the A10 had an MOT in July (1961 so has to have one), just checking sizes for GB and the rear is bald !!!!!
Glad to be of service!
Quote
Both Dunlop goldseal K70
What's the significance of the 'Goldseal' name?
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: scotty on 18.09. 2017 16:59
Heres a pic of  Dunlop Roadmaster TT100 K81  4.10 x 19 on my GF

No problem with fitment on the rear but just to big for the deep valanced front fender clearance.

I fitted a different front mudguard (mocked up in pic) and achieved better clearance but still a bit tight for this sailor

I'm guessing K70 would fit me better

They were fitted to my B series and I found them to be a great tire

S

Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: bsa-bill on 18.09. 2017 17:06
Quote
Avon Road Rider for me - yes I know, modern profile. Used to have spedmaster/SM on, but the Road Riders has transformed the bike in my opinion, I feel much more confident with them, used to have an unsure feeling with the speedmaster/SM when getting low in the corners or roundabouts, not with the Road Riders. So for me the looks come second to the safe feeling
regards
totally agree, a little  modern looking but feel secure under you
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Angus on 18.09. 2017 17:14
Hi Gb


Dont know the significance of the 'Goldseal' name, just copied the info from the tyres on the principle more info is always better  *smile*
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Black Sheep on 18.09. 2017 17:58
I don't rate Dunlop K70s. Prone to sliding, even in the dry and wear quickly. The last one I tried lasted 1,000 miles and couldn't be trusted on roundabouts. Had a few nasty slides. I corner to the limits and my BSAs were all fitted with Avon Speedmasters on the front and SM MkII on the back. Absolutely fine even when footrests are scraping the tarmac. Much better than their reputation in my opinion and reasonably long lasting. Pretty good wet grip too.
However, I am going the way of Avon Roadriders. Excellent tyres in my experience and as tyre changes become necessary, they have become the replacements of choice.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 18.09. 2017 18:20
I don't rate Dunlop K70s. Prone to sliding, even in the dry and wear quickly. The last one I tried lasted 1,000 miles and couldn't be trusted on roundabouts. Had a few nasty slides. I corner to the limits and my BSAs were all fitted with Avon Speedmasters on the front and SM MkII on the back. Absolutely fine even when footrests are scraping the tarmac. Much better than their reputation in my opinion and reasonably long lasting. Pretty good wet grip too.
However, I am going the way of Avon Roadriders. Excellent tyres in my experience and as tyre changes become necessary, they have become the replacements of choice.
Interesting points of view. Thanks.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: KiwiGF on 18.09. 2017 21:30
Im no Barry Sheen but so far the Duro brand seems a better version of the k70 to me.

See https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11470.msg87192#msg87192
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Black Sheep on 18.09. 2017 22:27
Duro tyres are new ones to me. Presumably available in the UK if you know where to look. Another tyre I don't rate is the TT100. I used them OK when racing, wearing the sides off the tread before the middle but in road use the centre of the tread wears quickly leaving a step which is frankly 'orrid on wet roundabouts. You need a well tucked in bike to use the edge of the tread and it's not often you can corner safely quite so hard on normal public roads.   
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 19.09. 2017 18:28
This may be a daft question, but I can't really tell if my rear tyre is supposed to be illegal or not.  It's a Cheng Shin which came with a very shallow central groove - this has now pretty much worn away.  However, the treadwear indicators seem to taper up toward the central point of the tyre, making one end of the indicators look flush with the other end well within the tyre groove.  Interweb says stuff about 1mm in a continuous band around 75% of the tyre (or something like that), but I can't believe it could be worn out on the small amount of wear on the centre of the tyre (even though the shallow pattern has disappeared).  The tyre still has loads of tread and has only done 3000m.  What do you reckon (can't do pics at present as jpeg files seem too large??)
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: JulianS on 19.09. 2017 19:19
That tyre has had it. Reduced grip. I see it as a question of safety for all road users.

3000 miles is about the mileage I get from Roadrider rear on A10.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 19.09. 2017 21:35
Picture of tyre attached - what do you think?
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: bsa-bill on 19.09. 2017 21:49
looks like it's been run over inflated
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 19.09. 2017 21:55
Always run on 30 pounds rear and 28 front.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Black Sheep on 20.09. 2017 06:47
Despite strong advice to the contrary, I run closer to the original recommended pressures (18 psi front, 20psi rear) using 22 psi front and 25 psi rear. I'm still not sure why pressures of 30+ psi are now recommended - except perhaps to wear out the centre of the tread quicker and hence increase the need for replacement tyres?
Higher pressures came in with radial tyres with very flexible sidewalls - but our old beasts still run on crossplies and are in fact generally lighter than modern machines.
As for the tyre in the picture... It's a pretty chunky tread and has seen a fair bit of use without a lot of hard cornering. Were it on my bike, I would replace it but then it's not my bike. 
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Tomcat on 20.09. 2017 08:34
Love the Cheng Shins Wortluck, K70 and ribbed pattern, soft compound and half the price of the rest. I put a Dunlop K70 next to a Cheng Shin tyre once and am confident they come from the same mould. Pity these tyres aren't available Down Under anymore.
I ran Dunlop TT100's on the A65 and was also happy with these, possibly even better due to the more rounded shape. The thing to remember is that they are all made with modern compounds now.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Topdad on 20.09. 2017 11:06
shows all our bikes are different, mine handles like a completely different bike on roadriders but only with 'em set at 30psi ,if lower not nice at all .
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 20.09. 2017 21:02
Cheers all.  The Cheng Shin has been a great tyre and has seen hard cornering action around the Derbyshire/Yorks Dales and Yorks Moors!
I am a bit handy with the throttle so this may account for the middle wear a bit. *dunno*  Bike passed its MoT six weeks ago and no concerns were raised about the tyre??  As for pressures, anything beyond 30 psi at the rear and it squirms a bit on white lines and heavy braking.  However, I wouldn't go lower than 28 r and 26 f.  I'm going to nip over to another tyre place for their opinion.  In the meantime, I'm going to order a Mitas to see how they perform.  To be honest, I do expect a bit of weave and squirm from the bike, especially as I do like to chuck it around a bit.  My main issue (as you would imagine) is whether it all stays on the road!! *eek*  By the way, I did put the original recommended pressures in the bike at first only to be told by a white faced fitter this wasn't a good idea. :o  The reason, all motorcycle tyres differ from those produced 60 years ago and require the pressures recommended by the manufacturer of the day.  60 years ago, the tyres needed lower pressures, now they need higher pressures due to the changes in the way they are constructed - just a thought.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Black Sheep on 20.09. 2017 21:57
I don't think crossply tyres are constructed differently from they way they were previously - an Avon SM is constructed the way Avon SMs always were. What has changed is the carcase material - a bit more flexible than it was and the actual rubber compound which, as previously mentioned, is up to date. With our old bikes having short travel suspension, the tyres actually do a bit of the work. You will certainly discover that on rigid-framed machines where, if you use higher than recommended pressures, the back and hops to the outside of a bend when cornering on anything other than a dead smooth road. A bit disconcerting. If you want to sample real excitement, try riding a trials bike on the road with 2 psi in the back. Not recommended!
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 21.09. 2017 17:11
I guess it's down to what works with your bike.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 22.09. 2017 16:27
Just changed the rear tyre - first time I've done that in 40 years!!  Just to share some tips really. The bead can be broken with a heavy boot or, as I found, G clamps.  These also help to keep the tyre in a position to insert tyre levers before removing the clamps and proceeding. As with refitting, a strong solution of washing up liquid and water around the bead helps removal. After doing all the usual stuff for removal and refitting, I found that the last bit is the worst. Again, I used G clamps to stop the bead popping out when getting the last bit to slot in. When I'm at a point where the tightest bit is, I used my 2 foot lever right in the middle and popped it in. Don't know if anyone else has used G clamps like this but it certainly worked for me. One other thing, when starting to remove the first bit of the bead, I found a piece of wood across the rim is a great way of achieving extra leverage.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: bsa-bill on 22.09. 2017 21:14
Quote
a strong solution of washing up liquid and water around the bead helps removal

and also helps the tyre slip round the rim next time it rains  pulling out the valve in the process, very difficult to get it all washed off.

beg or borrow some of the right stuff or french chalk
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 22.09. 2017 21:24
Tyre slipping round the rim..... really???  Have you had experience of this?  When I spoke to my local tyre place they recommended this method as an alternative??
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: bsa-bill on 22.09. 2017 21:40
Quote
Have you had experience of this?

Oh yes, hope you don't, it's not a happy feeling. instant deflation, not recommended after a curry
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 22.09. 2017 21:50
Nice one Bill, you had me going there for a moment *smile*
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Black Sheep on 23.09. 2017 07:03
Eek! A 2 foot lever can damage or even stretch the bead. Also, most detergents, especially washing up liquid, have a high concentration of salt. Not what you want lurking inside your nice chrome rim. I remove and replace tyres using a pair of 6" levers and a tin of baby talc (smells better than new rubber). As long as you make full use of the well of the rim there should be no need for brute force. For getting the very last bit of the tyre over the rim, a rubber mallet can be used to carefully knock it on.
As a struggling 18 year old I was taught how to change tyres by a pensioner with a Red Hunter Ariel. A single 6" lever was used and he binned my 2 ft tyre wrecker. It took the old guy 5 mins to fit the TT100 that I had been struggling with for the best part of an hour.
Worried about tyre slippage? Try security bolts.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 23.09. 2017 09:24
Always remember to start and finish at the valve.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: JulianS on 23.09. 2017 09:29
I use a proper tyre lube to assist fitting - cheap and a tub lasts for years.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 23.09. 2017 11:58
Cheers guys.  My 2ft levers, used judiciously, are perfect for the job.  The only difference with these and smaller ones is it takes less effort to do the same job.  The salt content in the detergents aren't a problem as I have stainless rims and spokes, but I am considering getting a small tub of the 'proper stuff' anyway. Following on from Greybeard, when you're ready to inflate, just make sure the valve slides up and down easily.  As I was checking for pinches, I noticed a bit of tube under the bead of the tyre on the valve.  Making sure the valve slides up and down means that the tube is free of the bead at this point.
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: bsa-bill on 23.09. 2017 20:22
Quote
Making sure the valve slides up and down means that the tube is free of the bead at this point.

Good point, back in the day when tubes where common every where our tyre fitter had a threaded gizmo that screwed into the valve and had a length of fine chain attached, it allowed the valve to be pushed well out of harms way but could be retrieved safely. I have a similar tool but minus the chain
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 24.09. 2017 21:43
UPDATE - The Mitas HO2 I fitted to the back is superb.  Went for an 80m test ride and it went round corners like it was on rails.  No weaving over white lines or poor road surfaces and no 'squirm' under heavy braking.  Test ride was supposed to be 10m but it rode so well I couldn't get off.  Of course, this improvement might be because by previous Cheng Shin was knackered *eek*
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 24.09. 2017 22:52
UPDATE - The Mitas HO2 I fitted to the back is superb.  Went for an 80m test ride and it went round corners like it was on rails.  No weaving over white lines or poor road surfaces and no 'squirm' under heavy braking.  Test ride was supposed to be 10m but it rode so well I couldn't get off.  Of course, this improvement might be because by previous Cheng Shin was knackered *eek*

Or because it was a Cheng Shin.  ;)
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 25.09. 2017 15:59
Not a fan of Cheng Shins, eh Greybeard! Won't be going back to them after this!!
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: Greybeard on 25.09. 2017 16:31
Not a fan of Cheng Shins, eh Greybeard! Won't be going back to them after this!!
I have no experience of them. It was just a smart-idiot response from me!
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: dave55 on 25.09. 2017 16:32
Mitas are made in CZ by a company owned by Continental and started making rubber soles for a shoe company, Cheng Shin made by company owned by Maxxis in Taiwan and started out making push bike tyres . You should sleep better tonight knowing that useless piece of info ! *smiley4*
Title: Re: Tyre question
Post by: wortluck on 25.09. 2017 16:45
Thanks dave55, I'm already aslee zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *grins*