The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: peter on 07.10. 2017 19:37

Title: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 07.10. 2017 19:37
Hello,
I think the ignition on my BSA Gold Flash Jg. 1954 is broken. I do not want to work on it all the time, I want to drive and not stand! I want to install an electronic ignition, I have got enough of a magneto.
What would be the best?The price would not be so important, the quality and ease of installation would be more important. I would like to keep the 6 Volt system. I have no idea what to buy. Has one the KF2 Lucas Replica Flange Magneto von BTH Components LTD built-in, is it well? All advice from other systems are also welcome.
Thank you in advance for each answer.
Best regards
Peter
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: bsa-bill on 07.10. 2017 19:45
I have the Pazon one, can't say it's the best as I have no experience of any other, however it is totally reliable, works with the battery down to ten volts below that it will allow the engine to pink and like all electronic ignition requires the battery to be good, this is the downfall of electronic v magneto, if you leave the battery on for too long it's game over unless you have a very good battery.
But it does give high compression bikes a much better performance ( no pinking at all)
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: morris on 07.10. 2017 20:06
Pazon also. There’s a topic on the conversion I did.
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=8219.0
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: muskrat on 07.10. 2017 21:08
G'day Peter.
I have Boyer on both my A's. Both are 12 volt so you would need a DVRII regulator to convert the 6 volt from the dynamo to 12 volt for the battery and change all the globes to 12 volt as well.
As stated a good battery and charging system is a must. On a few occasions the charging system failed and was able to ride for about an hour before the battery reached 10 volts then the Boyer goes full advance. In 25 years I have gone through 2 control box's and three coils. I luv'em till something goes wrong then I wish I had a magy.
Cheers
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 07.10. 2017 21:11
This
(https://i.imgur.com/TaDK4EE.jpg)


In this
(https://i.imgur.com/y5CWVln.jpg)

May be the cheapest and it's working ok on my 650 of another marque.

Good luck getting a reliable 12 V supply from an A10.
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: orabanda on 08.10. 2017 04:57
I recommend the BTH; self-energising electronic; no battery required.
i have one fitted to a Super Rocket; smoothest running A series bike in the garage (and the quickest).

First kick starting; you have to fit two  small coils; I hid them under the ski slope.

Expensive, but worth it.

Richard
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: bsa-bill on 08.10. 2017 09:28
Quote
I recommend the BTH; self-energising electronic; no battery required.

This I didn't consider Richard, wasn't on the radar as they say, might have a google at it
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: unclerob on 08.10. 2017 10:32
Thought I'd put in a word here for Interspan ignition units, they're made by a chap in Berkshire who originally designed them back in the 70's for speedway bikes. Not a common choice I know but I always use them because they are entirely self contained....the battery is built into the unit so does not rely on the bikes charging system. It is recharged by plugging it into the mains though I think it can be connected into the bike system if required ....I've never bothered as even the oldest one I have (12 or 13 years) still gives 5 or 6 hours running time....and holds its charge over several months.
They are very easy to fit...hardly any wiring to do....and I've never had a single problem in use with them.
Oh, and btw, I have no connection with the company....!!
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: KiwiGF on 08.10. 2017 10:57
I recommend the BTH; self-energising electronic; no battery required.
i have one fitted to a Super Rocket; smoothest running A series bike in the garage (and the quickest).

First kick starting; you have to fit two  small coils; I hid them under the ski slope.

Expensive, but worth it.

Richard

Seconded, I've got the BTH electronic/CDI mag, apart from some hassles getting it timed right it has worked perfectly for several years and 7500 miles now, it never needs re timing as one can split the cases without removing it :-) I think the issue I had with timing it was a manufacturing fault that is probably resolved by the makers now.

I just cabled tied the little ignition coils to the frame, hidden by the seat, no one would know they are there.

I actually have a rewound mag, but it is on the shelf to be sold with the bike just in case the new owner is crazy enough to want to fit it  *fight*



Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 09.10. 2017 18:39
Hi all,
many thanks for your answers they will help me with my decision.I will keep you up to date with my further progress.
With kind regards
Peter

Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 01.11. 2017 15:17
hi all,
I dismantled the K2F and found the following defects, the main axis of the armature is broken you can see that in the image below. The cam is worn too and the bearings are worn out. I can no more use the K2f  for an electronic ignition, I have to order one with an aluminium housing like an BTh or  similar.
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: KiwiGF on 01.11. 2017 19:25
Hi, that's bad news on the original mag, but if you opt for the BTH replacement, even though it is expensive, I think you will not regret it!

The next best thing I bought for my a10, after the BTH, was a new carb from burlen, this was after buying parts to fix it up and, when that did not work  *problem* ,a used replacement, which was little better than the one I had  :! Like the BTH the carb has been "fit and forget".

I have just bought a new concentric for my b31 as well, after too much messing about with the old one having blocked jets, flooding float bowls, worn and incorrect jets etc. it's a pleasure just to fit something and it works right away, without hours of fettling *woo*

Here's a pic of my BTH





Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 02.11. 2017 14:13
Hi,
yes the BTH is not cheap I like to have the one with the K2F body(over 600 bucks *sad2*)On the website from BTH is not a lot written about it, but  I am interested in all information:  did you not have to change anything?Could you continue the 6 Volt system?Is he really independent of a battery? You didn't need coils? Is the magneto drive gear not included?
Thanks in advance for your answer.
Peter
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: cyclobutch on 02.11. 2017 17:25
I would have my magneto properly refurbished and then refit it.
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: KiwiGF on 02.11. 2017 20:14
Hi,
yes the BTH is not cheap I like to have the one with the K2F body(over 600 bucks *sad2*)On the website from BTH is not a lot written about it, but  I am interested in all information:  did you not have to change anything?Could you continue the 6 Volt system?Is he really independent of a battery? You didn't need coils? Is the magneto drive gear not included?
Thanks in advance for your answer.
Peter

It appears that the BTH design (and price!) has changed a bit since I bought mine, as mine has two small coils external to the mag (pic attached, I just cable tied them on), but no external CDI unit. The CDI on mine I guess is inside the mag body.

However, I quite like the idea of the external CDI idea from a maintainance perspective, tho hopefully it will never go wrong, I guess the CDI unit is a standard part available from multiple sources not just BTH? Might be worth asking......if cheap a spare could be carried.

BTH are still saying the same thing regarding their mags being self generating, this means NO external power supply is needed, if an external power supply was needed I would not buy one, as there are cheaper alternatives that do need a supply, using converted OEM mag bodies for points or electronic pick ups etc, or cheaper not so original looking mag body replacement housing for the pick ups.

Edit: yes my bike is still 6v, but that may change as it has a dvr2 that can do 12v, I'm trying 12v on my b31 and will see how that goes. I bought an alloy gear to go with the BTH, it was not supplied with the BTH but was not expensive, the old and now spare advance and retard unit can go with the bike if I ever sell it, along with the refurbed std mag.....if you sold your old mag as "parts" and the a/r unit, it would go a fair way to paying for the BTH....
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 06.11. 2017 21:36
Thank you very much for your information, I think I will install the MTH , I hope it will be fine.
Peter
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: orabanda on 06.11. 2017 23:11
I am very happy with the BTH.
I hid the coils under the ski slope. I used a piece of rectangular aluminium bar, drilled a hole through it the same size as the tubing at the back, then split it and bolted (clamped) it to the tube.
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: orabanda on 06.11. 2017 23:33
Another pic, showing how the leads from the coil are routed
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 11.11. 2017 17:08
interesting pictures , very useful for me, thanks a lot.
Peter
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: peter on 23.09. 2018 12:52
Hi all,
Thanks a lot for your useful advice, but I still owe the end of this dread. I installed the BTH ignition, I mounted the ignition coils in the battery box and the CDI box on the frame. I mounted the Battery in the Toolbox (a little but strong Hawker 6 Volt Battery). I used the existing ignition-gear and blocked his automatic adjustment. Everything was easy and everything works OK.
Greetings Peter
Title: Re: electronic ignition , which is the best
Post by: edboy on 24.09. 2018 01:23
i m using a coil set up but recommend the 12volt armature kit sold on the net and a dvlr reg. it produces the low speed amps you need.