The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: RogerSB on 29.10. 2017 20:38
-
Hi all,
Today I put my Golden Flash up on my new plywood 'slot together' work platform for the first time to carry out some planned routine maintenance this week.
The first thing I wanted to do was to take off the timing cover to have a look and see what belt drive was fitted, check its condition and adjustment. When buying this particular GF the previous owner told me that the bike had been fitted with a dynamo belt drive when converted from 6v to 12v. He told me it was done by the owner before him, who was a HV mechanic, so he didn't know any more than that.
Well, I looked today and it looks to be an SRM kit and in excellent condition (see photo). And it's lovely and clean in there and I must admit I'm a bit reluctant to make it all messy!
I know SRM recommend packing their belts with grease to aid cooling. I've read some run it dry without any problem while others follow the recommendation.
As I value the expertise, experience and comments made here I thought I would ask for opinions to help me to decide whether to pack it with grease before I refit the cover.
-
no I wouldn't, no lubrication required and oil/grease may well degraded the belt.
Having said that my belt was for a while running through oil as the idler gear bush was wrong (wrong scroll so it pushed instead of sucked), came to my attention when oil came out via the dynamo cork, in this time it charged as normal
-
Certainly not grease as such, but industrial bearing stockists sell a spray lube for toothed belts, although a small squirt of WD-40 would likely work just as well for your belt.
-
Hi Roger, seem your bike was running no problem so: if its not broke don,t fix it,cheers
...p.s.you didn't know Phillip Allen down there in Portsmouth did you.
-
I ran an SRM belt drive dry for about 10 years until it broke this year. I phoned up SRM for a replacement belt and they asked if I'd greased it. When I said 'no' they said 'no wonder it broke so soon'!
I heavily greased the new one. I'll let you know in about 2030 if it lasted any longer 😂
-
I ran an SRM belt drive dry for about 10 years until it broke this year. I phoned up SRM for a replacement belt and they asked if I'd greased it. When I said 'no' they said 'no wonder it broke so soon'!
With my original ownership of a Flash in 1961 I went through three chains in about two years so ten years is more than good.
I have an SRM belt that's been on for around 15 years of admittedly light use but I cannot recall any instructions as to lubricating the belt by SRM
-
I have no personal insights into SRM or what Belt or lubricant they are advocating. (Fair disclosure) But I am interested in the topic as I am considering one of their kits for some of my projects.
I Have done a lot of research into belt drives (I worked in manufacturing and engineering work in Industrial applications and much of the machinery is either belt or chain drive and a hot topic in certain circles) but I like belt drives in general on motorcycles. (I have a number of Buells that run a belt final drive, and have fitted a number of belt drive kits on primaries on Nortons and Triumph)
Belts on auto applications are almost entirely the norm anymore for timing instead of chains,,,The service lives of belts in those apps continues to climb. (used to be rather short in the 1980s,, Fords 4 cyls were frequent casualties) But while they are specced to run dry they do get exposed to a lot of oil mist, residue and occasionally full contact.
Unlike a chain, a belt runs tighter and tighter the hotter it gets, so keep that in mind. As Marino from MAP cycle told me " A cool belt is a happy belt". I have used a lot of MAPs belt drive kits and I strongly endorse their quality.
I would be very interested in what TYPE of belt they are using (There several types of materials use as well as types of construction) As well as what type of lubricant they are advocating
Admittedly I have not read much in the last couple years, But I spent a lot of time reading industrial trade literature on this topic and kept up with it for years, but one of the worlds leading resources is Gates corp.
They have a wealth of info accessible on their website for auto/motorcycle apps, as well as Industrial, and anyone who wants to know more could gain a lot of insights into this. (Nothing shuts down a dispute with a dept manager or cranky customer than a trade publication outlining the tech aspects with certain portions highlighted)
See: http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/resources
See: http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/automotive-resources?&page=1&result=12&resourceCategory=Automotive+OE
See: http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/automotive-resources?&page=1&result=12&resourceCategory=Automotive+Aftermarket
See: http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/industrial-resources?&page=1&result=12&resourceCategory=Industrial+Belt+Drives
Design your own system, choose tooth type and pulleys, Belt materials, and use their software to do so.
See: http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/all-resources?&page=1&result=12&resourceType=App
And lastly,,,,," Welcome to "GatesFactsTM" About Belts, a technical library on the selection, maintenance and replacement of power transmission products. The library is a collection of technical bulletins, white papers and trade magazine feature articles dealing with subjects ranging from synchronous belts to stepcone sheaves. Browse through document categories below, or search all (160+) documents to find what you're looking for. All documents are in PDF format and viewable using the Adobe Acrobat Reader. (NOTE: .pdf format requires Adobe Acrobat Reader. If you have problems opening the PDF file, or need a copy of the reader, you can download a free copy from the Adobe Acrobat site."
See: http://www.gates.com/catalogs-and-resources/resources/repository/engineering-business-applications/gatesfacts-collection
One basic fact that I have come to embrace in the whole belts vs chain debate is a failure on a belt system is rarely ever terminal or catastrophic, Chains? Usually terminal and catastrophic. From a strictly liability and safety aspect in application and design Belts are a clear winner.
(*I am in the USA, land of prolific and tenacious litigants )
-
Thanks for all your replies. All very interesting and, as expected, with various opinions and experiences.
Sluggo, attached is a photo of the printing on the belt. It's mumbo-jumbo to me but you may be able to make sense of it.
Also attached is SRM's fitting instructions where packing with grease is mentioned (last sentence, para 3).
Kiwipom, I wanted to fit new primary and rear chains, dynamo brushes, etc. and was curious to know what dynamo conversion was fitted by a previous owner and what condition it was in. I didn't know Phillip Allen. My home town is Plymouth (where I am now) but I spent a lot of time in Portsmouth when serving in the Royal Marines. Was Phillip Allen in the RM? I know a lot of former Royal Marines emigrated to your part of the world.
-
hi Roger, P.Allen was in the Navy down there don,t know as what but i think `writer`was mentioned, his son Jeff was in the S.B.S. Phil is my brother-in-law and lives in Lee-on-Solent, cheers
-
It looks nicely made and very promising, To decipher the specs is fairly simple with a internet search. Typically all manufacturing these days is a step up or down from available stock. For example bolts and hardware start with common machine bar stock and you machine them to specs based on available sizes.
At one time manufacturers made all kinds of one off fasterners and it was hard to figure out threat pitch, and dimensions. But now days we have all kinds of established global standards and everything is based on that.
I would have ask my wife again what the current stds are but used to be ISO, now its something else.
(She was logistics lead but now master scheduler for a machine shop manufacturing company)
See: http://www.enochmachining.com/
Looking at the printing on the belt it comes right up...
See: https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/97f19c347d70db2ee358ced7ad5e3349.pdf
-or-
See: http://www.beltingonline.com/at3-gen-iii-synchroflex-timing-belts-4593
" SYNCHROFLEX® Timing Belts deliver high
outputs thanks to their high-grade components.
The excellent bond between the
hard-wearing polyurethane teeth and the
constant-length galvanised steel tension
members is the basis on which the high
power output potential is built.
ContiTech Timing Belts SYNCHROFLEX®
SYNCHROFLEX® Timing Belts
Advanced technology which stands out because of
its excellent product properties
The very flexible production process is particularly
suitable, for example, for manufacturing
double-sided belts and rear cams with
a high degree of dimensional accuracy. The
range of compounds available also enables
operation at low temperatures, in clean rooms
and in the food industry"
" Page General Information
4 Synchroflex manufacturing processes
5 Polyurethane Timing Belts
6 Antistatic SYNCHROFLEX® Timing Belts
7 The “E” tension member
8 The new GEN III
34 Tolerances
AT high performance Timing Belts
10 AT 3 GEN III
11 AT 3
12 AT 5 GEN III
13 AT 5
14 AT 10 GEN III
15 AT 10
16 ATP 10 GEN III
17 ATP 10
18 ATP 15
19 AT 20
T standard Timing Belts
20 T 2
21 T 2,5 / T 2,5-DL
22 T 5 / T 5-DL
23 T 10 / T 10-DL
24 T 20 / T 20-DL
Imperial Timing Belts
25 M (MXL)
F Flat Belts
26 F / AF / BF / CF / DF
Timig Belts with special tooth profiles
27 K 1 / K 1,5
28 V (incl. Imperial)
I am not going to read the whole manual/catalog today but it would be interesting to see what they recommend for lube.
There are a few kits out there intended to run in oil,,, I once had an Iron Head sportster and was surprised when servicing it that there was a belt drive primary kit installed and it ran wet in the oil bath. (I had no idea it was in there and seller did not mention it) MAP cycle and others sell an economy Primary belt kit that does not have sealed bearings and intended to run wet. I have not used those as I have always got the premium kits with sealed bearings as that was an important feature to me to eliminate oil leaks.
Tony Hayward in the UK offers wet belt kits, I have spoken to him on the tele years back and worked on a customers bike with one of his kits fitted,, Theres a lunatic (In a good way) in Australia that makes parts under the LYTEDRIVE name and he makes all kinds of stuff but he has a lot of experience with belt drives.
My friend Dave met him in person and the loon was flogging a Matchless and make quite an impression.
So, there's many ways to skin a cat, but not ALL belt types are suitable for motorcycles.
-
Thanks Sluggo, I've been looking at the info in the links you supplied. I had no idea drive belts was such a high tech product until reading some of it. It's late now here in the UK but I'll read some more tomorrow. It's comforting to know that SRM have used such a high quality belt. You could say it's the make or break of the product !!
-
i double checked with srm when i fitted theirs, and also asked if i should use a low temp melting grease as i'd read that the belt just cuts a channel through standard grease so gets little lube/cooling. they said use standard grease so i did. only 1 or 2 years ago but it still works.
its an A10 not an aircraft... maybe it doesn't matter that much?
-
"its an A10 not an aircraft... maybe it doesn't matter that much?"
I hear that sort of thing frequently and perhaps correct, after all its use is for an engine that is prone to squirting oil all about and inevitably everything gets an oily sheen, but keep in mind that many materials degrade significantly when exposed to petroleum products. Best to check compatibility. Some years back I had a couple years with O rings that leaked and failed prematurely. Cost me loads of labor and grief,,, The vendor who supplied them knowingly offered them for British bike engine applications but they had poor resistance to oil and failed in short order.
These O rings were supplied to most British bike wholesalers and dealers worldwide. So even though a known source sometimes we get bad products.
But sometimes its the wingnut at the end of the spanner who is the cause.
-
sometimes its the wingnut at the end of the spanner who is the cause.
yep, i am that wingnut. I definitely agree that knowing your materials helps make better choices. i'm no srm fanboy but i do assume they know more about it than i do so sometimes following instructions is probably the best things to do. (despite piles of s**t parts getting sold etc)
and, as its not an aircraft, it will probably make it home rather than fall from the sky
-
Thanks mikeb and sluggo. I must agree with you both. Of course you should listen to advice, especially from the people who are in the position to know, but then we ourselves need to be careful we are doing the right thing. My thought was exactly yours mikeb and that was won't the belt just cut a channel in thick grease.
Sluggo, you mentioned that you were considering a dynamo belt drive kit yourself. Have a look at Dynamo Regulators Ltd as they do a comparable kit, which I know a lot of people on here have fitted and are well pleased with. Mike Hutchings is also a forum member, a really helpful and knowledgeable chap and does ride an A10. Also in his advert's description he says his kit increases the dynamo speed ratio by 20% and the belts he uses can be run in either oil or grease but he doesn't emphasise that it's necessary. http://www.dynamoregulators.com/.
-
I added a SRM Belt drive kit after my rebuild, and I ran it dry and it lasted about 3K miles before it started shredding some shards...made it a bit further and spat....didn't break, just stretched and went flaccid.
I replaced it with I think a comparative Gates product that I bought from my bearing supplier (with a spare), and have done about 6Kmiles since. In all fairness, even though I adjusted it as advised, (able to turn it 90º..?- that's open to interpretation *conf*), so I gave the replacement a bit more slack. They can only have so much before the slack will *potentially* rub on the inner case screw boss, so split the difference (or something along those lines). It's all documented on another thread somewhere. (somehow I think the forum has too many threads running on similar issues, would be good to somehow keep them contained- maybe by better use of 'search and destroy' but that's food for a different topic)...
I also think I didn't bother initially with lube on the belt because I wasn't sure how the whole show was going to run after the rebuild (me of little faith), but *touchwood* has progressed much better than anticipated *smile*
-
Have a look at Dynamo Regulators Ltd as they do a comparable kit...
and the with the dynamo regulators one i think you can remove the dynamo with pulley attached - srm you cant get it through the casing and have to remove the pulley first. i wish i'd bought the dynamo regs one.
-
another thing to consider is that I believe later versions of one or some are in a 15mm wide version, as opposed to the 10mm wide ones, which makes sense to me.
Actually, it really wouldn't be so hard to knock up whatever one chooses if the means are available (if Shirley allows it *conf*)
-
and the with the dynamo regulators one i think you can remove the dynamo with pulley attached - srm you cant get it through the casing and have to remove the pulley first. i wish i'd bought the dynamo regs one.
You can, and it is an advantage. The belt is 15mm. (Without grease) my SRM belt did many years and is still OK (but the driving pulley isn't). The Dyn Regs replacement is easier to get on and off, has slightly increased gearing I think compared to others, and is working well for me. With the 20% step-up, the dyn now rotates at the same speed relative to the engine as does the dynamo on a magdynamo. Balances loads, 12v system, at very acceptable rpm.
With all of them there is the occasional need to relieve a bit of inner timing cover with a burr as the thickness of the ribs can vary, but we're talking a few thou, not great chunks, just to get clearance.
-
and the with the dynamo regulators one i think you can remove the dynamo with pulley attached - srm you cant get it through the casing and have to remove the pulley first. i wish i'd bought the dynamo regs one.
You can, and it is an advantage. The belt is 15mm. (Without grease) my SRM belt did many years and is still OK (but the driving pulley isn't). The Dyn Regs replacement is easier to get on and off, has slightly increased gearing I think compared to others, and is working well for me. With the 20% step-up, the dyn now rotates at the same speed relative to the engine as does the dynamo on a magdynamo. Balances loads, 12v system, at very acceptable rpm.
With all of them there is the occasional need to relieve a bit of inner timing cover with a burr as the thickness of the ribs can vary, but we're talking a few thou, not great chunks, just to get clearance.
If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that the dynamo regs one is easier to install and may be a fractionally better buy than the SRM one?
-
I have Dynamo Reg on both plunger and SA. On for about 5K miles now and at last inspection still as new.
-
Yes, I'd describe the Dyn Reg one as a natural development of the concept and it is probably a nudge 'better'.
The wider belt can't hurt if the quality passes the "Sluggo test" (haven't checked!), the ease of getting the pulley and dynamo in and out together is pleasing and makes doing that nut up a bit easier, plus extraction of both pulleys is easier.
Nothing very wrong with the SRM one though to be fair. But I was always nervous about the fit of the driving pulley on mine; the male taper on the bike looked good and it holds the new kit just fine, but I had periodic problems. I machined the centre of the alloy pulley and fitted the steel centre section of the old sprocket for what I hoped would be a bullet-proof fit. But in the end the re-riveting failed - which shows either that I made a bollox of it (tho' they were steel) or that there is a surprising amount of load - and load reversal - on that part. Hence buying the Dyn Reg box of tricks last year.
-
The question isn't really how wide the belt is, but what applications the belt is designed for, ie, what it's made of.
Some toothed belts are intended for light use, such as driving printer heads etc while others are steel banded or made of polyurethane etc and are for industrial use.
Some years back I was working somewhere where I had access to a large variety of toothed belts and pulleys, and so my pet project was to install a kit on my Indian Chief (a bike with a notoriously poor charging system...which given that it is coil-and-points ignition, was a big disadvantage).
Adapting the pulleys was easy enough with the machine tools available, but several different belts (including lengths) had to be tried as the belt would strip it's teeth on a regular basis.
The problem was that the engine would always stop on compression and "bounce back" and the inertia of the dynamo armature was doing the damage to the belt. I never did get it working reliably, and a mate brought a new Cycle Electrex dynamo with integral reg back form the States, and that, complete with the traditional Vee belt drive, means I now have juice to burn.
Anyway, it seems that the BSA kit sellers have this problem sorted, although packing with grease just sounds wrong.
-
I added a SRM Belt drive kit after my rebuild, and I ran it dry and it lasted about 3K miles before it started shredding some shards...made it a bit further and spat....didn't break, just stretched and went flaccid.
I replaced it with I think a comparative Gates product that I bought from my bearing supplier (with a spare), and have done about 6Kmiles since. In all fairness, even though I adjusted it as advised, (able to turn it 90º..?- that's open to interpretation *conf*), so I gave the replacement a bit more slack. They can only have so much before the slack will *potentially* rub on the inner case screw boss, so split the difference (or something along those lines). It's all documented on another thread somewhere. (somehow I think the forum has too many threads running on similar issues, would be good to somehow keep them contained- maybe by better use of 'search and destroy' but that's food for a different topic)...
I also think I didn't bother initially with lube on the belt because I wasn't sure how the whole show was going to run after the rebuild (me of little faith), but *touchwood* has progressed much better than anticipated *smile*
Out of interest, can a spare belt be purchased from the likes of Gates for the Dynamoregulator kit? Or is it a special one only available from Dynamoregulator?
-
I appreciate the feedback on this topic, as the BSA Preunit twins is my knowledge deficit right now hence joining this list. I also appreciate the feedback on the 2 units available and will look into that other unit (The non SRM one). I really like to hear the uprated speed with the pulley sizes.
I had been aware there was kits for these but no first hand or even second hand knowledge on these kits. We have a very active classic scene in my area but preunit BSA twins are thin on the ground around here. Other than mine There is less than 10 i know of in a 400 mile radius and none that I am aware of are ridden much.
I have 2 A10s that are in my keeper pile if I sell the 52 plunger. I might try an alternative idea on the 51 rigid, but the 63 A10 Ill purchase some sort of kit for it, I have some 12v NOS armatures and will make the setups work the best they can be.
As to this grease set up, I was hoping to hear more about this, I will delve into the topic soon and do some research about WHY SRM feels the need to lube these things but I held back before condemning the practice.
So let me just say this,. I can run down my resume (Blah blah blah) but suffice to say I consulted with a lot of really smart engineers on power transmission design when working both as a millwright in manufacturing as well as process engineering on some machinery I built, serviced and developed. (Integrated CAD/CAM steel roll forming manufacturing) & I own a number of 2 wheel and 4 wheel vehicles that use these types of belts (Timing belts, accy drive, Primary and final drive) I also double checked some of my manuals and tech literature.
Nowhere can I find any reference to lubricating belts, oils, greases or Mongolian Yak wax. In fact, all my materials suggest avoiding any lubricating products as it damages the belts. In some cases there are problems with tooth wear and a few cases I know of where Dry film lubricants were used to extend pulley and tooth wear but in most cases it was suggested that the steel or alloy parts were either wrong materials or heat treat or metal conditioning. There are a few products out there for "Belt dressing" and specialty cleaning products when a belt is noisy or fouled with contaminants. But nowhere to my knowledge is anyone advocating using grease. I could be wrong, (it happened once, my wife likes to point it out) but I plan to look into it.
But in this application I am hard pressed to understand the logic of smearing grease all over a belt, think about it. Its going to fling off within seconds of start up, Its inaccessible and do you remove the cover and re-apply when the moon is full? The idea of the belt is to avoid the issues with a chain and lubrication, as well as the sticky mess inside. Ill have to investigate further but do you seal off that area from oil I assume? As i mentioned earlier there are belt drive primaries that will run in oil but the oil is not for the belt, Its to lube the clutch center bearings which is why all the belt drive primaries I have used were all sealed type bearings and no oil used in the primary. (preunit Triumphs and all Nortons are a pain to seal from leaky primaries, & improves clutch perf so a dry belt drive is a nice accy upgrade)
Ill send an enquiry to SRM on this, and read up on the belt they use but I am confused as to why there is grease in this equation.
-
"Out of interest, can a spare belt be purchased from the likes of Gates for the Dynamoregulator kit? Or is it a special one only available from Dynamoregulator?"
___________________________________________________
That is a common question that comes up a lot. Most places making these kits will tell you their belt is proprietary. (MAP cycles says this frequently...)
See: http://www.mapcycle.com/categories/transmission-primary/belt-drive/belt-drive-kits/map2001-triumph-650-750-twins-1969-deluxe-belt-drive-kit.html
( i have used a number of these kits and am a huge fan of them, very nice quality, well worth the money)
See: http://www.mapcycle.com/tech-source/
I look fwd to when they update this, over the years they printed some really amazing tech materials that were availible to dealers and the public, I hope they reprint some of them as well as update.
But I posted a number of links to Gates tech files and others and if you research this, there is several types of teeth patterns and you have to match that, in addition the construction of the belt varies. Many industrial types while robust are NOT suited to a auto-cycle application. So, I doubt you will find a kit manufacturer will readily offer you up a cross reference list of suitable replacements from other vendors,
But nobody making these kits are making their own belts. As I said before, a designer uses off the shelf materials and then makes whatever adapters to make it work. In limited cases some pulleys or other speciality stuff might be farmed out to machine shop to be specially made (My wife's employer makes all kinds of components for other companies)
But to answer your question,,, YES,, YOU CAN FIND OTHER BELTS,, its up to you to research it and find the right one. Emphasis on RIGHT ONE.
The tech on this stuff is readily available on the internet and the quality gets better and better every day.
Some people are slow to adapt to this, but I personally LOVE the belt drives on some of my other vehicles.
15-20 years ago people would have scoffed at the idea of a Belt final drive on a high performance sport bike
but the belt drives on my Buells are rated at 60,000 miles and some literature suggests lifetime service but in reality most people change them around 20,000 to 30,000 miles which is amazing when you think about it. Some luddites swear that a chain is better and actually swap back to chains on HD & Buells and I had this argument 2 months ago where I was told that no way could a belt final drive cope. I pointed to my XB12SCG which if you believe the Dyno print out is over 130 hp and nearly as much torque. (I believe the dyno was optimistic) But thats pretty amazing if you think about it. Fully active suspension, over 100hp and no issues with the belt.
So, yes Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus! (Sorry, off topic here) but point is, you can find a product that will work and pretty cool that such things are now available.
-
Out of interest, can a spare belt be purchased from the likes of Gates for the Dynamoregulator kit? Or is it a special one only available from Dynamoregulator
....I replaced it with I think a comparative Gates product that I bought from my bearing supplier (with a spare), and have done about 6Kmiles since...........
I just dug out my old and new ones, the new one is not a Gates, but is a 'Optibelt' brand made in Ireland, and is the one done ~6K mies so far *wink2* (The Gates one was at a very unhelpful place)
Size is AT5-420 (that's 'A' section 5mm Tooth pitch / 420 mm length) counted @ 84 tooth.
I had to order it from the Bearing shop, and they have it cut to size (it comes like a big long sock, and is cut to width)
* The Synchroflex belt from SRM actually did about 6K miles, better than the 4K that I thought, and the optically had almost done 6K *
-
Spare Dyn Reg belts are available from the makers of the conversion, and maybe if one figured out the exact spec, from the actual manufacturer. (Edit- But that's been said already, sorry!)
Think they're very aware of the need for top quality here.
Spec is described in broad terms in the blurb on their site: http://dynamoregulators.com/drive-belt-kit.php
Not sure about this grease malarkey, I've never applied any.
-
I have the Dynareg belt fitted and am very pleased with the extra charge that it creates I can now run at 30mph and still be charging with the headlight on. You can buy a sparee belt from Dyno reg for £20 plus postage.
-
Possibly I should have cut in earlier on this thread, but most issues on the DRL dynamo belt drive seem to have been answered. We have been selling these kits for a good few years now. The first design goal was for maximum possible up-tick of the dynamo speed. Achieved +20% speed with max/min size pulleys of 47/16 teeth. At the same time belt width was also increased to maximum of 15 mm for superior strength, and even then the enhanced drive kit comes in at well less than the competition. *smile*
There have been a few local issues over the time in production, a couple of belts trashed, and a flange coming free from a large pulley. Key is to set dynamo position so belt is fairly loose to start with. As stated earlier in this thread engine heat tightens up belt remarkably. The belt does not change much, but the drive centres and pulleys being ally expand more. One problem is how to describe getting correct tension. Decided on 'easily twisting 45 degrees each way in middle of run'. But we do not define 'easily'. Ideal would be to use a tensionometer of some kind, giving a displacement distance for given given side force. But gets a little silly at that point I think. *conf*
I do not recommend using grease to 'lubricate' or aid cooling. A spray of dry lubricant with PTFE will not do any harm. I don't really see how grease would aid cooling in any case. The belts are German made Conti Gen III, AT5 420 mm long, good for 120 C. Probably available from any local Conti stockist, or other manufacturer's exact equivalent. As they are cut from a wide section of belt probably bought to order, a minimum order quantity would obtain, and not cheap! They are made of steel cords in a high grade polyurethane. To be borne in mind before using any lubricant spray. *ex*
In practice I see no reason to believe the belts will not last 10's of thousand of miles, backed up by customer feedback.
-
Thank you for the response and that is great information. (Thumbs up!). The price of your kits looks reasonable and I am well aware of the challenges of manufacturing and dealing with the public as a vendor so let me say your efforts are appreciated.
Few people have any idea how difficult it is to manage a small niche business or create a viable product but are quick to criticize or offer opinions without real knowledge.
So I am sure you dont hear it nearly enough, but thank you for your services. *smile* I am not yet at purchasing parts stage for my 2 A10s I am keeping but I will most certainly be a customer soon.
On another note, many years ago I was unsatisfied with the generators on early bikes and started researching and working on alternatives as I have some preunit triumphs as well. I bought a few tractor and ATV alternators and was looking at making a small compact alternator for retrofit, ALTON came out with theirs. I had a lot of other irons in the fire so dropped the endeavor. I still feel the ALTON kit can be improved on from a price standpoint as well as output, but life changes came along and its no longer a priority for me. One note though is that in testing it is amazing how much load a generator or alternator can generate thru a belt, or gear. It is NOT an insignifant amount. I know Bill Getty pretty well at JRC Engineering and in discussion talked about the issues of shredded gear teeth for replacements for maggies
so dont overlook what it takes to make something that is durable.
Lastly,,, WD40. I saw that mentioned as a lube. Pet peeve of mine. I have a couple cans on hand all the time and it has its uses. But its a misunderstood product and at this point people have it embedded into their psyche its a lube. It is not. Its a actually very poor choice as a lube. It flashes off and evaporates easily.
WD-40 stands for "Water displacement and the 40th attempt at a formula of a mixture of a variety of chemicals. It was developed in the US Space & missle program for cleaning and drying out electrical connectors from salt water, morning dew and condensation.
Dont believe me?? Read the wiki.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40
** Someones significantly edited the wiki page from last time I read it. But it hits most of the marks.
For a pentatrating oil try Kroil, But I like "PB Blaster" and for a wet lubricant I use "Triflow" but for dry lubes I have a variety of sprayable dry film moly based lubes that work well.
-
I'm pleased to see that Mike Hutchings has come in on this thread to add his expertise. During the night, and thinking about things, I thought tomorrow before I get involved in the garage I should email him and let him know about this thread but I've been thrutching and heaving on my bike all day and forgot to do it.
Today was wheels off day and fitted new primary chain, rear chain, clutch springs, rear wheel adjusters, etc . . . and as usual one thing led to another and more came off than planned!
Tomorrow it's 'decision time' for me and reading all that's been said on here I've 'almost' made up my mind to leave the dynamo belt dry. I bought this GF early in the year and the previous owner told me that the belt drive was fitted before he got the bike so I don't know how long it's been on there or for how many miles. It looks to be in good nick - so running it dry doesn't seem to have done it harm. Although it goes against the grain to not adhear to the supplier's recommendation.
I had no idea when I asked this question that it would be such a technical subject - but many thanks to all.
-
another thing to consider is that I believe later versions of one or some are in a 15mm wide version, as opposed to the 10mm wide ones, which makes sense to me.
Actually, it really wouldn't be so hard to knock up whatever one chooses if the means are available (if Shirley allows it *conf* )
duTch, you've guessed who's boss then!
-
I had no idea when I asked this question that it would be such a technical subject
when this panel of experts is still in debate then it probably doesn't matter much.
on the other hand Mike H's comments about belt tension are important. i hadn't thought about the alu pulley expansion affecting the diameter that much and thereby tension. that's the one to get right.
-
G'day all.
I've have belts (10mm) on both mine for about 10 years. At first I had a few belts let go, probably my fault for over tensioning. Once the correct tension was found the belts rubbed the raised boss for the inner cover (the boss had been gouged by a loose chain) . I ground the boss off and use a countersunk screw. The cafe still chewed another belt due to excess heat (my high pipe runs very close to the timing cover). I then applied grease liberally to the compartment and haven't had a problem since.
Cheers
-
Bump for Ratchet:
SRM belt kit on mine. I set it more than 45 degrees deflection, but less than 90.
I always run it in grease, and lots of it. Graphite in my case for the very scientific reason I have lots of it. Like Muskrat, I have high level pipes so heat could have been a problem, but at over 40,000 miles it could snap tonight and I couldn't complain.
(we all know what's going to happen later on now don't we! *smile*)