The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Gearbox, Clutch, Primary => Topic started by: RoyC on 27.11. 2017 08:35
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6 spring.
I know that I have to check that the clutch is lifting evenly but how do I tell how much to compress the springs ?
At the moment the nuts are at the top of the adjustment (springs under least compression)
Thanks
Roy.
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I have found the answer to my question in the service sheets book.
Roy.
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Ignore the service sheets,
They will have the clutch way too tight.
Starting with the nuts at the end of the bolts screw them down an equal number of turns till the clutch does not slip, bike in gear, front wheel against a wall when you STAND on the kick starter.
From this point , adjust the nuts in or out as needed to get the plates to lift square.
Once there back off each nut 1/6th turn till the clutch just slips when tested as per above.
From there tighten each one 1/2 to 1 full turn.
Start the bike, put it in gear then let the clutch out slowly.
If the bike does not stall tighten the nuts evenly in 1/6th turns till it does.
You are aiming for the LIGHTEST clutch you can get and the lighter the better.
Factory settings give you a clutch that will not slip, but usually is way way way too heavy thus flogging out the lever pivots and straining your wrists.
When done correctly you should be able to pull the lever in with 2 or 3 fingers.
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Thank you for that Trevor.
I got myself a dial gauge to set the clutch up.
When the clutch is fully engaged there is a 3mm runout (+ / - 1.5mm).
When the clutch is fully disengaged (Lever pulled in) there is no runout at all.
Someone did a remarkable job of setting it up prior to my ownership.
Does that 3mm runout matter with the clutch engaged ?
Roy.
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Yes.
Usually you will find the thick plate behind the basket is bent.
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Yes.
Usually you will find the thick plate behind the basket is bent.
Does that effect the working of the clutch ?
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Roy - all the parts need to be really good condition. The 6 spring swinging arm clutch has a bad reputation for drag, slip and heavy action so you need all the help you can get.
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Roy - all the parts need to be really good condition. The 6 spring swinging arm clutch has a bad reputation for drag, slip and heavy action so you need all the help you can get.
Thanks Julian, I think I need a complete new clutch.
Roy.
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Roy
I would consider using a 4 spring type - better all around than the 6 spring swinging arm one - lighter to use and easier to keep in adjustment compared to the 6 spring.
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Roy
I would consider using a 4 spring type - better all around than the 6 spring swinging arm one - lighter to use and easier to keep in adjustment compared to the 6 spring.
1. Would this do the job ? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A10-Goldstar-4-Spring-Clutch-Complete-NEW/132340673257?hash=item1ed01e6ae9:g:7EUAAOSwtpZYSU5A
2. Do they all have the same number of gear teeth ?
3. Do I need anything else ?
4. Would the 4 spring be strong enough to pull the sidecar ?
Roy.
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Out of curiosity, got very good experience with the 6 spring on the plunger (once well adjusted and internals in good shape), why is (what parts makes) the swingarm 6 spring seemingly troublesome ?
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Hi Roy.
If you want to go for the 4 spring version I would pay a little extra and go for the SRM unit.
Includes machined alloy clutch cover with needle roller arrangement. The EBay unit still appears to use the steel pressed cover without the needle roller.
Also you should consider cutting the actuating push rod and inserting a ball bearing.
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Hi Roy.
Also you should consider cutting the actuating push rod and inserting a ball bearing.
Why ?
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Cutting the clutch push rod and inserting a ball bearing reduces fiction and improves clutch operation.
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Cutting the clutch push rod and inserting a ball bearing reduces fiction and improves clutch operation.
Right. Does it have to be cut in the middle and have the diameter of the ball bearing removed from the length so that the rod is still the same length as when it was solid?
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The 6 spring plunger clutch is a completely different clutch to the 6 spring swinging arm and they cannot be compared. No parts interchangable.
If you go for the SRM pressure plate (it comes with fitting instructions) you need to reduce the push rod length due to the pusher so I would put a ball bearing between pusher and push rod, having hardened the end of push rod.
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The 6 spring plunger clutch is a completely different clutch to the 6 spring swinging arm
Thanks (so not an imagination that the plunger 6 spring can behave differently (better, that is).
Cutting the clutch push rod and inserting a ball bearing reduces fiction and improves clutch operation.
The plunger uses a two part rod, the inner ends 'cupped' with a ball between them (= a 1 ball bearing :O) so should maybe have been used for the swing as well.
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The 6 spring plunger clutch is a completely different clutch to the 6 spring swinging arm and they cannot be compared. No parts interchangable.
If you go for the SRM pressure plate (it comes with fitting instructions) you need to reduce the push rod length due to the pusher so I would put a ball bearing between pusher and push rod, having hardened the end of push rod.
Thanks for explaining that Julian.
Is this the one I want on page 8 ? - £400-86 - http://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/part-search?title=clutch&sku=
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Thats the one.
Photo shows the pressure plate fitted.
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Thats the one.
Thanks, I'll order it.
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Beautiful clutch and a one finger operation. You won't be disappointed.
ELLIS
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I fitted one to my 1960 Golden Flash last week - see pic. Also replaced the cush drive nut with SRMs upgrade version. For the clutch upgrade I also needed a 4 spring clutch centre puller, a 4 spring clutch locking tool, clutch spring adjusting tool and finally a sliding plate felt washer (which I changed at the same time). I had all this for my 6 spring clutch but no good for the 4 spring - so if you need any of that best order it at the same time to save postage.
Well worth doing - set it up first time - no slip or drag and can get neutral, with engine running, every time.
I also had to buy a split bearing separator & puller (from Screwfix) to get my 6 spring clutch centre off as it was on so tight. The 4 spring clutch centre puller I bought didn't stand a chance to get it off it was on the taper so tight. I tried using a 3 leg bearing puller on it and it broke a couple of the castillations off the centre so I then had to grind out a grove around it to fit the split puller from Screwfix on it. Then tightening it and a sharp tap on the end of the puller and it was off.
Then not forgetting the primary cover gasket. I always make my own from gasket paper using a small ball peen hammer to tap and knock out the screw holes and then go around the cover to accurately cut out the shape. Works a treat - a mechanic friend of mine showed me how to do it many years ago. That was the days when they made their own gaskets.
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As an addition to my previous post the SRM clutch upgrade is very light at the lever compared to my previous 6 spring clutch and I've also found it needs very little lever movement to disengage and engage (only about 1/8") after taking up the 1/8" free play, so at first, compared to my 6 spring set up I feel it's almost on and off, so not very much slipping to take up the drive etc. Feels almost like racing changes, like we used to do years ago, without using the clutch.
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Thanks for that Roger.
I am looking forward to getting mine.
Your nuts don't seem to be tightened down very much, do they have locking nuts ?
Is that the pad behind the sliding plate that you changed ?
Anyone know what size ball bearing I need to get ?
Roy.
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Anyone know what size ball bearing I need to get ?
Roy.
I'm not sure of the exact bore of the pushrod tunnel, but the pushrod probably should be 1/4", so that will be the ball size. I doubt there'd be any easy to find balls that are slightly bigger than 1/4". When I did it- 'way back when'-, I used a 14" x 1/4" 'needle' roller.
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I'm running a 6 spring on my S/A.
I keep meaning to change it out but it never gets bad enough. After the initial running in period I found it would just slip a bit. I adjusted it by road testing with the chain case off – just pulled down enough to remove the slipping and no more. It flips around like a witches hat in there but the action at the lever isn’t bad and it doesn’t drag either. Clutch on my Morini is considerably worse.
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As an addition to my previous post the SRM clutch upgrade is very light at the lever compared to my previous 6 spring clutch and I've also found it needs very little lever movement to disengage and engage (only about 1/8") after taking up the 1/8" free play, so at first, compared to my 6 spring set up I feel it's almost on and off, so not very much slipping to take up the drive etc. Feels almost like racing changes, like we used to do years ago, without using the clutch.
You get a more progressive action using a lever with 7/8 inch centres. The ones with 1 1/16 centres give more lift but a more sudden action.
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Hi Roy.
The clutch push rod is 1/4" dia and I used a ball from the steering head bearing arrangement.
When fitting the new SRM clutch you will need to shorten the existing push rod, might be best to get a new length of silver steel rod, easily obtained of EBay for a couple of pounds.
The ends of the rod need to be hardened, achievable with gas torch method.
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Anyone know what size ball bearing I need to get ?
Roy.
I'm not sure of the exact bore of the pushrod tunnel, but the pushrod probably should be 1/4", so that will be the ball size. I doubt there'd be any easy to find balls that are slightly bigger than 1/4". When I did it- 'way back when'-, I used a 14" x 1/4" 'needle' roller.
Thanks Dutch, just ordered some. *smile*
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Hi Roy.
might be best to get a new length of silver steel rod, easily obtained of EBay for a couple of pounds.
The ends of the rod need to be hardened, achievable with gas torch method.
Ordered. £3-49 free P+P *smile*
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Your nuts don't seem to be tightened down very much, do they have locking nuts ?
Is that the pad behind the sliding plate that you changed ?
Anyone know what size ball bearing I need to get ?
Roy.
Hi Roy,
In the SRM instructions they say make sure one coil of the springs is showing above the cups or you'll get drag, so I thought I'd try it on two first off and on road testing that was fine - and down here in Plymouth we have lots and lots of steep hills to challenge a slipping clutch.
I did have to shorten my 6 spring pushrod. Like an idiot I didn't measure what I ended up with but if you set the clutch up and adjust the supplied top hat pusher about half way then (as far as I recall you need to shorten the pushrod so that about 1/4" is protruding on the gearbox side. In my first attempt I cut my original pushrod a fraction too short but luckily I'd recently bought a length of 1/4" silver steel for just this purpose so made another from that, which ended up the correct size. Heated the ends to cherry red and quench in oil (I use the old ATF I removed from the chaincase I used with the 6 spring). SRM recommend using SAE 40 and say not to use ATF, I used some Castrol GTX SAE 15/40 that I had.
When the clutch lever is pulled in about half way the arm on the gearbox should be parallel with the cover joint or 90 degrees to the pushrod. When the lever is not pulled it should be approximately at 11 o'clock, so that'll give you an idea of what length your pushrod needs to be. I didn't fit a ball bearing and in my opinion it's not needed with this clutch. Lever is a one finger affair - so why try to change it?
Yes, the felt washer is the big one (about 4" dia ) that is squeezed between the inner case and the sliding plate. SRM also provide a smaller felt washer which fits on the back of the clutch centre and also a copper thrust washer. The tricky bit is carefully offering the chainwheel up to clutch hub and keeping all the twenty bearings in situ (packed in grease). One of those jobs that you could do first attempt or It'll take a couple of attempts but make sure they all stay in place.
The four studs in the centre hub come supplied loose. They have square heads, which fit in a recessed ring in the back of the hub and wobble about a lot (which worried me) but when you fit the cups and springs and when under slight tension they centralise themselves and are firm enough.
The other thing that struck me when adjusting the spring pressure is that this clutch is so easy to successfully set up because of the solid pressure plate and the design of the pusher. Even with the springs under tension you can push on the pressure plate and wobble it from side to side, which to me means that when it's pushed away with the top hat pusher (with its lovely roller bearings) to disengage the plates I think it's sort of self centralising and therefore it's not such a hassle to get it perfect like you do with the dodgy flexible 6 spring version. I maybe wrong but I'm convinced that this pressure plate doesn't need to run 100% true like the 6 spring. I just screwed in the nuts to where I thought I'd try it and bingo!
Anyway, good luck with it, I'm sure like everyone else you'll be delighted.
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do they have locking nuts ?
Anyone know what size ball bearing I need to get ?
Roy.
Missed the bit about locking nuts Roy, but no locking nuts required. When you get yours take note that the spring cups have indentations in the rims that locate in indentations in the pressure plate to stop them turning. I found the adjusting nuts are easier to turn in to tighten them than out to loosen as you come up against the end of the spring and it needs some force to turn past it - until next time around. You need a tool like the one I bought in photo - or a big screwdriver will do it. Some even use a big screwdriver and file a bit out of the middle but I found if you have a big enough screwdriver it'll do the job.
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do they have locking nuts ?
Anyone know what size ball bearing I need to get ?
Roy.
You need a tool like the one I bought in photo
I've got one of those tools Roger.
Thanks for the other info.
Roy.
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Do you have to remove the back primary casing to remove the sliding plate, in order to renew the felt pad ?
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Hi Roy,
It's easier if you do. The sliding plate is secured by two shouldered bolts, the nuts are behind the inner case. It may be just possible to get a spanner on them. The front one is the easiest, the rear is more difficult. If you want to change the cush drive nut then it's probably worth doing. Of course it all depends on the condition of your felt seal (whether leaking oil or not).
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Hi Roy,
It's easier if you do. The sliding plate is secured by two shouldered bolts, the nuts are behind the inner case. It may be just possible to get a spanner on them. The front one is the easiest, the rear is more difficult. If you want to change the cush drive nut then it's probably worth doing. Of course it all depends on the condition of your felt seal (whether leaking oil or not).
I may have a go at removing the inner case. I have ordered a couple of cork gaskets to go between the inner case and crank case. There is a leak somewhere and I may as well cover everything while i'me this far.
I may have trouble getting at the nut/bolt by the rear chain because I have the fully enclosed one.
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I may have trouble getting at the nut/bolt by the rear chain because I have the fully enclosed one.
Yes I think you will, as I believe the front part of the chaincase is attached to the inner case.
Don't forget to check the alignment of the engine and chainwheel sprockets. You can get shims for the engine sprocket quite cheaply.
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Hi Roy and All,
I have ordered a couple of cork gaskets to go between the inner case and crank case. There is a leak somewhere and I may as well cover everything while i'me this far.
Cork would not be a good idea for these gasket positions *sad2*
Cork gaskets will never tighten down solidly, and the thickness will alter the case position enough that it probably
will mean clearance problems with the primary chain and or clutch
With the full chaincase the bolts holding the sliding plate are longer and also hold the front section of the FERC in place
They are a real pain to get at *problem*
A source of leakage can be from between the two parts of the sliding plate as they are only spot welded in a couple of places, seal around the vee with your favourite sticky goo
I have not had much success with replacement felt seals, *sad2*
A while ago I bought some oil proof "foam" seals on ebay and they work well
From your posts I gather that you are replacing the 6 spring clutch with SRM's 4 spring unit *????*
Some time ago I posted about some of the problems encountered when fitting new components to the primary side and getting them to work in harmony
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=9646.msg70166#msg70166
John
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Hi Roy and All,
I have ordered a couple of cork gaskets to go between the inner case and crank case. There is a leak somewhere and I may as well cover everything while i'me this far.
Cork would not be a good idea for these gasket positions *sad2*
Cork gaskets will never tighten down solidly, and the thickness will alter the case position enough that it probably
will mean clearance problems with the primary chain and or clutch
With the full chaincase the bolts holding the sliding plate are longer and also hold the front section of the FERC in place
They are a real pain to get at *problem*
A source of leakage can be from between the two parts of the sliding plate as they are only spot welded in a couple of places, seal around the vee with your favourite sticky goo
I have not had much success with replacement felt seals, *sad2*
A while ago I bought some oil proof "foam" seals on ebay and they work well
From your posts I gather that you are replacing the 6 spring clutch with SRM's 4 spring unit *????*
Some time ago I posted about some of the problems encountered when fitting new components to the primary side and getting them to work in harmony
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=9646.msg70166#msg70166
John
Hi John, thank you for that very in depth reply.
I can't find any gaskets, other than cork so will have to make one.
A while ago I bought some oil proof "foam" seals on ebay and they work well
What name did these seals go under ?
My SRM has just arrived (7a.m.) *smile*
Roy.
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Well, the instructions for cutting the push rod are for unit construction jobs (measuring from the timing side).
How do you determine what length to cut the push rod on a pre unit bike ?
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Roy. my 1960 Golden Flash is pre unit. In my post no 30 in 2nd & 3rd para I explained how I did it. There may be a better & more accurate way that someone will come up with but what I did worked ok for me.
First I set up the clutch to what I thought would be ok, with the top hat pusher adjustment set to about half way and then insert it fully into the pushrod hole. Then insert your uncut pushrod from gearbox side. You'll have to have the cable disconnected from the operating arm to swing it out and also remove the adjuster with the ball bearing in the end to be able to insert the pushrod from that side. Be careful you don't drop the adjuster inside the gearbox or you'll have to take the gearbox outer cover off to find it. When you push the pushrod in you'll probably move the top hat pusher out a bit at the other end so go and gently push it back in, then you can see how much of the pushrod is protruding from the shaft at the gearbox end and it's just a matter of judgement from there. Shortening it a little at a time may be wise if you haven't any replacement. When you've got it right then heat and quench to harden the end you cut.
I've repeated para 2 and 3 again here for you:-
I did have to shorten my 6 spring pushrod. Like an idiot I didn't measure what I ended up with but if you set the clutch up and adjust the supplied top hat pusher about half way then (as far as I recall you need to shorten the pushrod so that about 1/4" is protruding on the gearbox side. In my first attempt I cut my original pushrod a fraction too short but luckily I'd recently bought a length of 1/4" silver steel for just this purpose so made another from that, which ended up the correct size. Heated the ends to cherry red and quench in oil (I use the old ATF I removed from the chaincase I used with the 6 spring). SRM recommend using SAE 40 and say not to use ATF, I used some Castrol GTX SAE 15/40 that I had.
When the clutch lever is pulled in about half way the arm on the gearbox should be parallel with the cover joint or 90 degrees to the pushrod. When the lever is not pulled it should be approximately at 11 o'clock, so that'll give you an idea of what length your pushrod needs to be. I didn't fit a ball bearing and in my opinion it's not needed with this clutch. Lever is a one finger affair - so why try to change it?
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Hi RoyC,
What you want for your sliding plate seal is one from Dave Flintoft engineering. This comes with full instructions on how to fit it. I put one on my A10 swing arm two years ago and not one drop of oil has leaked out. *smiley4*
Tel 01287-638677 or email david-flintoft@sky.com
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Just to add: To check the length of the pushrod you'll need to fit the gearbox side adjuster each time, when you screw it in set its adjustment about half way. Get the end of the top hat pusher and the ball bearing in adjuster on the the gearbox side just lightly touching each end of the pushrod. I found pushing the rod through to the clutch side and then by gently pushing in the top hat pusher while looking over the bike to the gearbox side you can see the moment the pushrod starts to move the actuating arm. The actuating arm should have been moved to about 11 o'clock to gearbox outer cover joint. That will show the pushrod is an acceptable length. With the clutch lever pulled in about half way you will see that the top hat pusher will have moved out and the actuating arm should now be parallel with gearbox cover joint. Slacken off the clutch pressure plate central adjuster and fit the clutch pressure plate and adjust the springs. when this is done the necessary free play can be done with a combination of both the gearbox side adjuster and the top hat pusher adjuster in the centre of the pressure plate and finally at the lever.
As I said previously this was the method I used, there may be a better way and if there is I'm sure someone will tell you.
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Hi RoyC,
What you want for your sliding plate seal is one from Dave Flintoft engineering. This comes with full instructions on how to fit it. I put one on my A10 swing arm two years ago and not one drop of oil has leaked out. *smiley4*
Tel 01287-638677 or email david-flintoft@sky.com
Thanks for that, I have sent him an email.
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There has been a new development.
The push rod that is fitted has a ball bearing with dimples in the end of the rods to match.
I have got the clutch partly dismantled (plates out, nut off) but can't budge the inner basket with the 6 bolts sticking out, I thought that it would just pull out.
Roy.
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Hi Roy,
The inner basket sometimes (mostly) cuts a groove into the shaft adaptor *eek*
You may have to turn it a bit to get the splines to line up so it can be pulled out
Make sure the adaptor puller fits on fully before applying tension to it, pouring boiling water over the lot can help as it
heats the adaptor quickly so the heat does not travel through to the shaft as happens when heating with a blow lamp
John
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Hi Roy,
The inner basket sometimes (mostly) cuts a groove into the shaft adaptor *eek*
You may have to turn it a bit to get the splines to line up so it can be pulled out
Make sure the adaptor puller fits on fully before applying tension to it, pouring boiling water over the lot can help as it
heats the adaptor quickly so the heat does not travel through to the shaft as happens when heating with a blow lamp
John
A couple of pictures to show my problem. The thread for the puller appears to be external not internal.
Is this the tool I need ?
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Roy,
Your picture is for 6 spring. I believe there are two different threads for the 6 spring, depending on year of bike, either 24 tpi or 28 tpi.
My picture attached is for 4 spring.
6 spring is MCA (Aston) Ltd, Pt no P117.
4 spring is MCA (Aston) Ltd, Pt no P110.
MCA (Aston) product is what virtually everyone sells.
The inner hub should just pull off the clutch centre (adaptor) - then you tackle the clutch centre with a puller.
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Roy,
Your picture is for 6 spring. I believe there are two different threads for the 6 spring, depending on year of bike, either 24 tpi or 28 tpi.
My picture attached is for 4 spring.
6 spring is MCA (Aston) Ltd, Pt no P117.
4 spring is MCA (Aston) Ltd, Pt no P110.
MCA (Aston) product is what virtually everyone sells
Unfortunately Roger I have already got one of those in your picture. *sad2*
I have ordered the one in my picture, now I hope that it's the correct thread. *conf* . It's 1-3/16" INTERNAL x 24tpi THREAD. P117.
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When you get the centre hub off if you have a grove running around the clutch centre/adaptor (some have, some don't) you may be better off using a bearing separator like this. It's £19.99 from Screwfix, it pulled mine off when the P117 couldn't move it. Also handy for other jobs whereas the P117 will be useless when you throw your 6 spring clutch in the bin.
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Roy, don't forget when you tighten the puller onto the centre, if that doesn't move it then give the end of the puller bolt a whack with a lump hammer.
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Just to clarify, this puller is to remove the inner cage ? *conf2*
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Roy
The puller you need for the 6 spring hub is the one with internal threads.
The puller with the external threads is for the BSA 4 spring.
With your 6 spring clutch the pressed centre with the studs and the chainwheel should pull away leaving just the hub on the gearbox mainshaft to be pulled off with the tool.
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Roy
The puller you need for the 6 spring hub is the one with internal threads.
The puller with the external threads is for the BSA 4 spring.
With your 6 spring clutch the pressed centre with the studs and the chainwheel should pull away leaving just the hub on the gearbox mainshaft to be pulled off with the tool.
The pressed centre with the studs is jammed solid but the chain wheel is loose.
So it's just a matter of pulling the inner cage with studs until it comes off.
I'll have to rig up some kind of puller off the studs. *help*
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You can just leave it on and pull it all off with the centre puller.
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You can just leave it on and pull it all off with the centre puller.
I'll give that a go Julian, when my puller arrives, that is if I have enough thread to hold the puller.
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Roy, picture of 6 spring chainwheel showing the bearings and the clutch sleeve (sorry I know it as, and have been referring to it here as clutch centre).
Also see pictures of p17 and p18 of my own produced parts book, which makes it easy to cross reference what parts are what and what they are called.
The bit that needs to be pulled off is no 40 on p17.
No 61 is the bit that should (in your case) just come away with a good yank. Once that's off the chainwheel with its bearing should just fall off.
Good luck.
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The chainwheel movement is undoubtably play in the bearings. The 6 spring chainwheels are usually wobbly without the plates and pressure plate fitted. You may try to use that play to work the clutch hub (or centre) off all in one go. Grab the chainwheel and give it a good yank from side to side. May work.
You'll get there in the end.
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The photo makes it all clear now, I can see that the centre cage is just held by the splines and it's just a matter of working it loose. Thanks a lot for that.*smiley4*
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Just had reply from SRM and they recommend Castrol Classic 20/50.
in the primary case.
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The photo makes it all clear now, I can see that the centre cage is just held by the splines and it's just a matter of working it loose. Thanks a lot for that.*smiley4*
There is nothing holding the drum on the clutch center.
One side of the bearing is flat ( drum side ) while the inner race has groves for the balls to run in.
Usually you can pull the drum off, then the bearing thus leaving nothing on the main shaft other than the center & the backing plate.
Next, the PULLER is not a PULLER and if u use it as a PULLER you will simply strip the threads off.
The PULLER is a PRELOADER so you preload the center then give it a sharp whack and usually it pops off.
However I have found that if you tighten the PULLER with a rattle gun, the jerky motion will oft break the taper and the center will pop straight off.
If you tighten the puller with a big long spannar generally it strips the thread.
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Got everything off and am waiting for the "puller". (Appreciate the tip about whacking the puller bolt).
I have managed to get all of the bolts out that are holding the primary back plate on, including the sliding plate bolts, but the sliding plate just spins, I assume that it is held in place by the centre.
Roy.
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(Appreciate the tip about whacking the puller bolt).
The instructions that accompanied mine when I bought said that the correct usage was, that once the extractor was tightened up, you should hit it with a hammer and then tighten up again by one quarter of a turn, and then again use the hammer. This cycle should be repeated until the clutch centre is free. As has been said do not attempt to use it as a puller the threads will strip if you use the tool in this way. Also if it is the MCA tool that you have purchased I would most strongly advise that you examine the thread very closely before you attempt to use it. I had to do quite a lot of cleaning up to remove debris from the thread. Maybe I was just unfortunate, but do check that out.
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(Appreciate the tip about whacking the puller bolt).
The instructions that accompanied mine when I bought said that the correct usage was, that once the extractor was tightened up, you should hit it with a hammer and then tighten up again by one quarter of a turn, and then again use the hammer. This cycle should be repeated until the clutch centre is free. As has been said do not attempt to use it as a puller the threads will strip if you use the tool in this way. Also if it is the MCA tool that you have purchased I would most strongly advise that you examine the thread very closely before you attempt to use it. I had to do quite a lot of cleaning up to remove debris from the thread. Maybe I was just unfortunate, but do check that out.
Thanks for that.
Been looking at this video, shows me how it's done. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZqfPOJuog
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Been looking at this video, shows me how it's done.
Maybe I am in the minority, but neither the crank sprocket nut nor the clutch centre nut on my bike undid as easily as that, and just in case anyone is wondering the engine sprocket nut is an SRM one. Both needed 65 ft lbs to release, and that is the figure that I re torqued them to on reassembly, and I also applied blue loctite to the threads for good measure. To achieve that torque figure the clutch was locked with a clutch locking tool, and the primary chain needed to be fitted ensure the the engine did not turn over while doing up the engine sprocket. And, just in case you were unaware, use a cable tie to pull the ends of the chain together. It makes refitting the split link a piece of cake.
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Hi All
The instructions that accompanied mine when I bought said that the correct usage was, that once the extractor was tightened up, you should hit it with a hammer and then tighten up again by one quarter of a turn, and then again use the hammer. This cycle should be repeated until the clutch centre is free. As has been said do not attempt to use it as a puller the threads will strip if you use the tool in this way.
The end of the "extractor" bolt is pointed hammering this into the end of the gearbox shaft is a none too clever idea
I have come across split mainshafts because of this *warn* *problem*
A few weeks ago I was brought a T140 bottom end where the owner had broken two pullers trying to remove the mainshaft pinion (plain shaft and keyway)
The PO had tried heat as well *ex*
The end of the crank was mushroomed and blued from the abuse *sad2*
A better idea is to make a thick copper or brass pad that will sit in/on the end of the shaft so the pointy bolt will seat against that instead of the steel shaft
I have also seen the right hand end of the gearbox suffer from hammering the puller
It can break out the alloy around the RH bearing retaining circlip or dent the bearing races *warn*
Tension up the puller and pour a kettle of boiling water over the clutch shaft adaptor the "sudden" heat works better than applying a blow lamp that gives time for the heat to travel through to the main shaft as well
With decent quality pullers ( the ones that are black in colour usually have been heat treated)
an air or electric impact driver on the puller nut works well
John
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Been looking at this video, shows me how it's done.
Maybe I am in the minority, but neither the crank sprocket nut nor the clutch centre nut on my bike undid as easily as that, and just in case anyone is wondering the engine sprocket nut is an SRM one. Both needed 65 ft lbs to release, and that is the figure that I re torqued them to on reassembly, and I also applied blue loctite to the threads for good measure. To achieve that torque figure the clutch was locked with a clutch locking tool, and the primary chain needed to be fitted ensure the the engine did not turn over while doing up the engine sprocket. And, just in case you were unaware, use a cable tie to pull the ends of the chain together. It makes refitting the split link a piece of cake.
Would this locking tool work with SRM clutch ? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-BSA-3-4-spring-clutch-locking-tool-A7-A10-A55-A65-T100-T140/300610373705?hash=item45fdc64849:m:mrCmKunXbaZIT29Gh0CR5Eg
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Dont know about the modern repro clutch pullers but both my ancient 4 and 6 spring pullers have very slightly domed bolts, not a pointed one. Both been in use over 40 years and no hint of threads pulling off. Maybe the repro items which shed threads are not made of the corect grade steel.
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Dont know about the modern repro clutch pullers but both my ancient 4 and 6 spring pullers have very slightly domed bolts, not a pointed one. Both been in use over 40 years and no hint of threads pulling off. Maybe the repro items which shed threads are not made of the corect grade steel.
I have just had a look at the one that I am waiting for, no point on that bolt either.
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To achieve that torque figure the clutch was locked with a clutch locking tool, and the primary chain needed to be fitted ensure the the engine did not turn over while doing up the engine sprocket.
Yep! that's the way to do it. I also had to fit the brake pedal back on temporarily and persuade my wife to push down hard on the pedal to apply the rear brake to stop everything from turning.
If you really get stuck trying to get the clutch sleeve off (like I did) refer to my reply no 49. I had to grind a ring around mine about 1/8 deep with a small grinding wheel on a Proxxon (similar tool to a Dremel). Then I was able to use the split bearing separator, which got it off pdq *smile* . No pointy end to mess up your pushrod hole as the end is flat.
The locking tool looks right for the 4 spring. SRM sell them for £9.73 pt no 61-3760 (SRM no p249) on p2 of their tools section, so compare pictures.
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Maybe the repro items which shed threads are not made of the corect grade steel.
I'd put money on that Julian.
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Does anyone know anything about the Liberty Sidecars, They are fairly newely manufactured in the U S of A, if they are any good, mounting hardware et. et.
Also what are the chances of finding a good original Watsonian, BSA sidecar ? ?
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Does anyone know anything about the Liberty Sidecars, They are fairly newely manufactured in the U S of A, if they are any good, mounting hardware et. et.
Also what are the chances of finding a good original Watsonian, BSA sidecar ? ?
Can you see one on here ? The 1st & 18th pic is mine. - https://www.google.de/search?q=Watsonian,+BSA+sidecar&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij-faKqvLXAhVGGsAKHUF8CBcQsAQIJg&biw=1164&bih=537
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Before I was born my folks had a tandem cycle with a sidecar for my sister. When I came along they bought an Austin Seven.
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Yep! that's the way to do it. I also had to fit the brake pedal back on temporarily and persuade my wife to push down hard on the pedal to apply the rear brake to stop everything from turning.
The best thing to do is to fabricate a piece of steel to make a handle as shown in the image below. No need to enlist the help of the wife then, it becomes a single person task. Just make sure that the "handle" is long enough to reach the ground then everything will be truly locked when you apply pressure to release or tighten up. Both engine sprocket, and the clutch centre nut need to been done up really tight. I was advised that 65 ft lbs was the correct figure to prevent either from becoming loose in service. John, my extractor centre bolt was not pointed and it worked just fine using the method advocated by the supplier, but I can see where you are coming from.
(http://)
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Dont know about the modern repro clutch pullers but both my ancient 4 and 6 spring pullers have very slightly domed bolts, not a pointed one. Both been in use over 40 years and no hint of threads pulling off. Maybe the repro items which shed threads are not made of the corect grade steel.
I have just had a look at the one that I am waiting for, no point on that bolt either.
Puller arrived, centre popped off with one sharp tap of a normal hammer.
Which way does the open end go on the sliding plate ?
Roy.
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Lucky you Roy.
Sliding plate like this picture as you look at it from beside your bike. Large felt washer behind it.
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Can you see one on here ? The 1st & 18th pic is mine. - https://www.google.de/search?q=Watsonian,+BSA+sidecar&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij-faKqvLXAhVGGsAKHUF8CBcQsAQIJg&biw=1164&bih=537
Looks fantastic - wish it were mine.
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Lucky you Roy.
Sliding plate like this picture as you look at it from beside your bike. Large felt washer behind it.
Thanks for confirming that Roger, that is the way that it was on my bike before I stripped it down.
What put the doubt in my mind is that it's the other way round in this video. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZqfPOJuog
Roy.
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Hi All,
The repro sliding plates are poorly made *sad2* and not a good fit on the shaft adaptor
SRM's clutch adaptor does not have the scroll, they supply a felt washer that fits between the adaptor and sliding plate,
Check the sliding plate as quite a lot of them will leak between the two rivited parts *problem*
Apply goo to the V between the parts
I had a look at the youtube video link, obviously set up for recording, nothing tight *????* *????*
gave up after a few min *sad2*
If the sliding plate is fitted wrong way round the gearbox cannot be moved back to the limits of the adjustment
John
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Not really enough space for primary chain adjustment if the plate is assembled closed end towards rear.
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Check the sliding plate as quite a lot of them will leak between the two rivited parts *problem*
Apply goo to the V between the parts
John
I think you told me that before John.
I have done that this afternoon, it's drying out on the table till tomorrow.
Going to North Staffs BSA Owners meet tonight.
Roy.
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Not really enough space for primary chain adjustment if the plate is assembled closed end towards rear.
Yes, I noticed that and started to think about why it should be open end towards the rear and then it occurred to me that if you remove the front (and the easier) nut and bolt, leaving the rear in situ, would it then be possible to wriggle the sliding plate to the front while at the same time lifting it away to clear the shaft and could it then be remove without having to undo the rear (and the difficult) nut and bolt. Who's going to volunteer to strip theirs down to try it then???
Also it looks like the centre piece has been modified and Roy that's what made you think it may have to be the other way around.
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Hi RoyC,
What you want for your sliding plate seal is one from Dave Flintoft engineering. This comes with full instructions on how to fit it. I put one on my A10 swing arm two years ago and not one drop of oil has leaked out. *smiley4*
Tel 01287-638677 or email david-flintoft@sky.com
Thanks for that, I have sent him an email.
Dave Flintoft got back to me today, he said that he will pop a couple in the post, with instructions. *smile*
Roy.
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That's great stuff Roy, you won't be disappointed.
ELLIS
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Hi RoyC,
What you want for your sliding plate seal is one from Dave Flintoft engineering. This comes with full instructions on how to fit it. I put one on my A10 swing arm two years ago and not one drop of oil has leaked out. *smiley4*
Tel 01287-638677 or email david-flintoft@sky.com
Thanks for that, I have sent him an email.
Dave Flintoft got back to me today, he said that he will pop a couple in the post, with instructions. *smile*
Roy.
As promised. The sliding plate oil seals arrived from Dave Flintoft, FREE OF CHARGE. *respect*
I have been trying to find a web site or a price list of parts for Dave Flintoft Engineering, but without success.
Roy.