The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: coater87 on 03.05. 2018 10:32
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I am installing a new stainless dual exhaust from armours.
The fit is nowhere near the greatest, and it looks like my kicker pedal will foul the exhaust anyway.
I dont think its a valid idea to send this back, because I do want a stainless system (my shed eats chrome and any metal that is not painted inside a year).
So I am looking for ideas on how to tweak these pipes without kinking them.
Also, the kicker. I bought this a few years ago from SRM, and I take it I need one thats cranked out further?
Lee
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I would assemble loose and push the front engine stud through to the primary side and see if you can tweak the down pipe mounting bracket or slot the fixing hole.
The silencer bracket will also give alittle adjustment afixing to the rear footrest.
As you state the kick start might be the culprit and that will be difficult to amend.
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Have you considered a dehumidifier for your shed? Can make a difference. I have Armours stainless exhausts on my bikes. They do require a bit (not usually much) guddling to fit but are worth the hassle.
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I have just fitted a complete Armours set, no issues and well made.
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Hi Lee,
So I am looking for ideas on how to tweak these pipes without kinking them.
I had a lot of work to get the siamise stainless setup to fit my SR *work*
The good thing about stainless is that you can re polish it after heating and tweaking the pipes
Spot heating one side of the pipe with an oxy torch will bend the pipe noticably,
doing this in a few places / times can help a lot
I also had to put a hacksaw cut 3/4 ways through the pipe and reweld and polish to get it in line with the silencer as the pipe was hitting the frame *eek*
I had t o use a roller pipe expander (used to expand boiler tubes) to get the pipes round and tight in the head
Watch Keith Fenner straightening marine prop shafts on youtube to see how effective the heat and quench method can be
John
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and it looks like my kicker pedal will foul the exhaust anyway
Pretty common comment with any of the 58 - 61 models with torpedo shaped exhausts I think, If anybody knows any firm selling kickstart lever with greater crank I'd appreciate A nod in that direction.
It's possible of course to use spacers to cure the problem and end up with pipes at very unequal distance from centre at the rear wheel, does it matter, not at all when riding of course, just nags at our sense of design perhaps ( ha - what a pretentious old fart Iv'e become)
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Also, the kicker. I bought this a few years ago from SRM, and I take it I need one thats cranked out further?
Lee
Heat it red hot and bend it. I did that to mine and it came out really well. No guarantee of course but I think if its a good quality one it should work.
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First, is my "shed"....its literally falling down around my ears. The city zoning won't let me build a garage, and I am afraid they won't let me build a new shed if my current shed falls down.
Old cinder block building with a tin roof, squirrels can go in and out with ease, when it rains it's damp in there for a week.
The pipes (or the bike) are way off. Not as far as Johns were, but probably 1.5 inches low and pinched in 1 inch at the muffler join. Even twisting the mount didn't get me much closer.
I am going to try the heat straighten. I just cannot get enough leverage to dowel bend it with heat. When (if) I get the pipes right, I will get my original kicker re-chromed and the pipes polished.
I will keep you informed.
Lee
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Lee, this is quite common on Notrun Commando's. Many years ago, a friend & I did a parts survey with 10+ cylinder heads. Gordy and I both used to work for a Aerospace casting company and he theorized there was significant core shift on many of the castings. Surveying cylinder heads you could see the evolution of many.
Dies and molds are expensive, Gordy is a Tool & Die maker so he is an authority on this topic.
We found significant differences in the heads in the exhaust ports alone and accounted for major differences in how the pipes fit as well as aligned. I only have 3 cast iron heads and 4 alloy ones for BSA Preunit twins and not enough to have a scientific comparison but I spent some time "eye balling" mine and believe there is variations in the ally ones, the cast iron ones look more consistent but I cant be sure at this point.
(To test, mark and measure a precision surface plate, then install a very LONG piece of tubing in each one at a time using a fixed mount, longer the better. We used a surveyors/construction laser to measure with,)
Point is, I suspect the reason SOME people have no issue and others do is that there is a disparity in castings, followed by engine mounts, frames, brackets etc. As they say in construction, You may be off only an 1/8th of an inch here, but at the end you will be off by 2 ft. (Accumulative)
I have some railroad construction tools (6 to 8 foot long) steel bars of various styles and made some sleeves for various OD & ID and use them in a fixture for gentle persuasion, and a torch in others.
As to your construction debacle, talk to some contractors. One of my former co-workers had a portfolio of properties and had the same issue in one small town. Had a bit of a dispute with the officials. But in his opinion any barriers you place in front of him are merely obstacles to navigate. In his case the rules always have a loophole. He found like you, they wouldnt approve a new structure but no one can restrict maintenance of the existing one. (Well they can, but its hard to limit the scope).
So what he did was rebuilt his one small section at a time and over a period of time. In his case it was limited to so many square feet so he rebuilt section by section just under that sizing. When a major feature had to be left in place he either built over it, or behind it. Code compliance spent months monitoring him but over time he rebuilt the entire house. I bet your locals know of some tricks and ways to beat the system.
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When we bought our place we had to live in the shed for a while. Old stone walls, tin roof, no door. Massive condensation not to mention draughts. After the first winter I removed the tin roof a section at a time, installed timber sarking and roofing felt and then replaced the 50 year old tin roof. Added doors, fixed the windows. What a difference. Now quite a reasonable place to keep bikes, no more condensation dripping from every metal surface. I do run the dehumidifier in the worst conditions. Oh, the house is reasonably habitable so we live in there now.
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This is going to be picture and word heavy.
I have been heating, bending, and straightening this exhaust. I almost clear everything, the original kicker clears the muffler.
The rear brake petal clears the pipe, the left foot rest almost touches the pipe, the original center stand bangs into the muffler, and my side stand also hits the pipe, but I am much, much closer than I was.
I bought what I thought was the correct muffler bracket (I dont remember from who, one of the usual suspects).
After trying to hang the exhaust, I realized there was no way that was the right bracket (at least I hope not). So I made a much longer one, and that seemed to help. Can anyone give me an actual measure on a correct bracket for a 1958 swing arm a10?
Also, could you look over the pictures I post for any obvious things wrong? For a while I was doubting my foot rests even. I have to get this exhaust finished, the job is starting to drag.
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Than here is right side.
I am not a big fan of where it "wants" to be, boot is going to get pretty warm.
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Hi Lee,
I hope this won't upset you too much *sad2*
The footrest fitted on the left is a right hand one, it fits"above the bolt"
They fitted non symmetrical footrests on the earlier models
I cannot be sure when they went from one straight and one offset (to the bolt) to two offset footrests?
(parts book needs checking?) but the 61 has two offset footrests so the pipes can run higher
I loaned my late model parts book to a friend yesterday he has just bought a 59 reg but 60 model
A spark plug socket is what I use to reach the nuts on the offset footrests
John
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John,
Be upset? Absolutely not, I know something is bad wrong here- I just dont know what *ex*
The parts book I am going by is the one we have online here that says "circa" 1958, and I think that might be a Gold Star frame?
If I take both foot pegs back off, can you tell me if I have a correct set, or which one is right (if either) for this bike?
Lee
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Here is what i have for a 1958 swing arm bike.
The mounting lug in the picture measures 2.5 inches the way I measured it, the one behind the primary measures 3.5.
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On the table cloth? Tut tut!
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On the table cloth? Tut tut!
This is important Man business, table cloth be damned *ex*
(She will never know about this)
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Here is what i have for a 1958 swing arm bike.
The mounting lug in the picture measures 2.5 inches the way I measured it, the one behind the primary measures 3.5.
The mounting lugs seem correct, but it looks like you got 2 right side footrests (of which the one you originally mounted left side seems to be from another model?)
I have measured my muffler mounting plate. Measured from the top hole to both bottom holes I have 2 3/4" (centre to centre)
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Morris,
I have found and ordered part 42-4854, which should hopefully give me a complete set of pegs. :!
I trust this peg I have pictured is the odd one, right?
Anyone have any idea what it may be from, its in really nice shape.
Lee
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Maybe its off a single??? Some of this early BSA stuff is baffling. So many variations of basically the same parts.
I am sorting early BSA parts and later unit singles and twins and its a game of "Trivia Pursuit" For example, sold a 67 Hornet, The wheels were off it but I had them but along with other parts had been intermingled when we closed my shop and then moved the inventory 3x. I KNEW I had a ton of BSA parts but seats?? Wheels? Axles? Oil tanks? All the same right? Nope!
It took most of a day and my pile'o axles did not produce the needed one, but finally found the correct one for the rear wheel, I dont know how many variables there are, but discovered that the competition models uses a slightly different rear axle than the road going ones.
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Anyone have any idea what it may be from, its in really nice shape.
It looks rather like my Plunger ones.
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Lee, it looks like the LH rest fitted from 1954-57.
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Anyone have any idea what it may be from, its in really nice shape.
It looks rather like my Plunger ones.
If it’s splined it can’t be for a plunger.
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It is splined.
I just remembered to measure my bracket, yours is 2.75 mine is 2 inches even. *sad2*
Lee
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It is splined.
I just remembered to measure my bracket, yours is 2.75 mine is 2 inches even. *sad2*
Lee
That explaines a thing or two. Even with my 2.75 brackets the left header pipe only clears the primary case by a couple of thou. Can't help you with a supplier though as the brackets where on the bike when I bought it.
The footrest on your last picture looks a lot like my right side one. It was tucked in under the gearbox so couldn't mount it higher and on the same time was touching the header pipe below which makes me think that it's also an incorrect one. I ended up heating and bending the footrest to get it out from underneath the box which allowed me to mount it higher and get more clearance to the pipe.
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Hi Lee and All
It just goes to show the problems are many and varied *eek*
The photos of the rear of your frame do not show any "goldie" components,
It might be a later type B31 frame, has it the kink on the bottom right side rail?
The footrests are the same for the singles and twins as far as I know
A couple of years ago I was looking for a right hand late offset footrest, it took me quite a while to find one *ex* *ex*
If I think of it tomorrow I must look at the footrests that came on my 55 B series project bike
John
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On the table cloth? Tut tut!
This is important Man business, table cloth be damned *ex*
(She will never know about this)
I would have put a doily under it.
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Lee can I ask where you got the stainless silencers?
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Hi Bill,
I ordered everything from Armours. I had to contact them about getting the parts in stainless, but they do stock them.
Lee
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Do they sell stainless pipes too?
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Hi Rex.
Armours offer stainless exhaust and silencers, I would recommend them as a supplier and go stainless every time, very pleased with mine although other members have suffered issues with Armours.
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Cheers Lee
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Hi Rex.
Armours offer stainless exhaust and silencers, I would recommend them as a supplier and go stainless every time, very pleased with mine although other members have suffered issues with Armours.
It's just that I could find stainless silencers on the web-site but no mention of stainless pipes. Time for a phone call.
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Do they sell stainless pipes too?
Rex,
They show a siamese set, but a dual set is also available- you might have to drop them an e-mail.
Yes on the pipes! *smile* But if your bike (or luck) are at all like mine, it is going to take some doing to get the pipes to fit properly.
Because the bike is not mobile yet, I had to drive the left hand pipe back and forth 15 miles each way to get it tweaked a little each time. Its far from perfect, but at this point they can be sent out to get re-polished.
I will have to make another set of muffler hangers, get those powder coated and then hopefully job done.
Lee