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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Other Bikes, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: morris on 24.01. 2019 12:24

Title: Oil
Post by: morris on 24.01. 2019 12:24
Aha..! Thought it was another oil thread didn't you...?  *whistle*
Well it's not. Or maybe kinda?
Penrite started a forum for all questions oil;
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/forums#/
Get your questions professionally answered instead of turning to a bunch of amateurs...  *smile*
I can already hear the sigh of relief from some.  *woo*
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: a10gf on 24.01. 2019 14:13
yes, yes, yes, lots of words there, but truth is anyone not using straight 30 will be subject to fiery wrath from the heavens for their ignoble acts, and suffer eternally, engulfed in visions of exploding crankcases and forced to drink used, hot multigrade >:D
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: RDfella on 24.01. 2019 16:25
a10gf - it's not a question of getting bogged down with 'straight 30' or whatever, it's a question of using the oil the engine was designed to run on. Use a detergent oil in an engine with no oil filter (eg our bikes) and sooner or later (usually sooner) the engine will require a major overhaul - if it hasn't already gone bang. Use a 100:1 two stroke mix in an old seagull outboard and it'll be goodbye engine in a minute or two. They require a 30 or 40 oil at 12:1. Horses for courses and all that.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: a10gf on 24.01. 2019 17:17
...and in case someone still don't grasp and accept the eternal, unique and universal 'mono'toneous visdom depicted in all motoroil-related hieroglyphs ever carved in stone through millions of years, read this, and repent your sins:

https://www.a7a10.net/BSA/synthoil.htm
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 24.01. 2019 17:32
Quote from: morris link=topic=13880.msg114072#msg114072 date=1548332655z
Get your questions professionally answered instead of turning to a bunch of amateurs...

“Professionals” means salesmen, in this case.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 24.01. 2019 17:35
it's a question of using the oil the engine was designed to run on.

In the good old days, when the engine only lasted 20,000 miles.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Brian on 25.01. 2019 03:53
Why did someone have to mention oil, the word oil should be banned on the forum !

I'm 62 now and have been working on engines either as a full time mechanic or "after hours" since I was about ten, I must have pulled down hundreds of engines in that time. In all those years I have never seen or even heard of an engine fail/blow up/wear out prematurely where the cause can be directly attributed to the oil. I lived and worked in central Australia for many years and have seen a couple of engines that were driven for a couple hundred miles on totally wrong oil (oil from a windmill in one case) just to get the people home.

Now there is no doubt in this case Penrite are going to push their own product, they wouldnt be very good at their jobs if they didnt. However I do use their oils in all my bikes, moderns to old ones.

I own a 1000cc Moto Guzzi that I bought new in 1994, it currently has 111,000 k's on it. I have run it on Penrite HPR 30 from new with changes every 3,000 k's which by modern standards is a short oil change period. Now Guzzi's are renown for lasting a long time but my bike after 111,000 k's doesnt use any oil at all, the oil comes out after 3,000 k's nearly as clean as it is when its put in and I have never had to adjust the tappets. All of which means there must be little to no wear in the engine including cam and tappets, no valve recession. Wether this is due to the oil or the quality of the engine is of course debateable.

So my take on the subject is if you use any brand of oil that is a half decent product you will be ok. All the talk about you must run one brand or a straight grade etc etc is a load of bollocks in my opinion.

So there ..........................................
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: muskrat on 25.01. 2019 06:08
G'day Brian.
I agree wholeheartedly. A good oil changed regularly is the key. I use Penrite in the BSA's and Castrol Active 4T in the Orientals. Just pulled the rHonda 1100 down (due to pinging damage) the mains, big ends and cam bearings look like new after 150K.
Cheers.
ps: surprised your keyboard hasn't melted!
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Brian on 25.01. 2019 06:21
I must admit I probably jump up and down more than I should but oil topics annoy me.

Sometimes you read about someone saying you must run a straight grade or something or another and most times its just rubbish.

Those of us that have been playing with bikes for years just put oil in and go for a ride but i feel sorry for someone who is new to old bikes or any bike for that matter and read some of these threads and end up thinking if they dont put the right oil in their engine will explode into a million pieces the first time they start it.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Tomcat on 25.01. 2019 08:34
Why did someone have to mention oil, the word oil should be banned on the forum !

I'm 62 now and have been working on engines either as a full time mechanic or "after hours" since I was about ten, I must have pulled down hundreds of engines in that time. In all those years I have never seen or even heard of an engine fail/blow up/wear out prematurely where the cause can be directly attributed to the oil. I lived and worked in central Australia for many years and have seen a couple of engines that were driven for a couple hundred miles on totally wrong oil (oil from a windmill in one case) just to get the people home.








Thanks Brian
My 20c worth, a mechanic on and off for 41 years.
The cheapest oil in 2019 is better than the best oil in 1955.
Oil doesn't wear out. Oil does get contaminated, so change it sooner.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Greybeard on 25.01. 2019 11:14
Ok, ok, calm down fellas!

What about the argument over detergent oils, designed to have a remote filter vs non-detergent oils in engines that use a centrifuge filtering, (sludge trap) system?
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: cyclobutch on 25.01. 2019 13:21
ZDDP
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Black Sheep on 25.01. 2019 17:54
I once met a research chemist who ran his airhead BMW on second hand hydraulic oil. He reckoned that hydraulic oil was far superior to any engine oil. His Beemer seemed fine to me.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: worntorn on 25.01. 2019 18:47
Some info on the subject-
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/follower-scar-oil-tests.25898/#post-386437
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: worntorn on 25.01. 2019 18:48
And a summary of findings-

https://www.accessnorton.com/Oil-Tests/NortonOil.php
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: a10gf on 25.01. 2019 18:55
morris... look what you have done! *lol*
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: muskrat on 25.01. 2019 19:29
Thanks for that info worntorn (I see that name there).
So it looks like Royal Purple HPS 20/50 gets the nod for me but at triple the cost of Penrite.
Any oil with a ZDDP content over 1200ppm is good for our old bangers.
Cheers
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: morris on 25.01. 2019 20:00
morris... look what you have done! *lol*
Sorry...  *roll* *sad*
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 25.01. 2019 22:23
New improved Oilo for me, the World’s first straight multigrade.

It’s got zinc literally coming out of its ears.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: worntorn on 25.01. 2019 22:35
BelRay EXP 20/50 4tsemi synthetic is almost as highly ranked as the Royal Purple HPS and is pretty reasonable here in Canada, about 30 GBP for 4 litres.
I have been using Valvoline VR1, which tested well, however the BelRay tested better and costs the same.
These are both detergent oils as are most of those tested.
For those who do not want detergent oil for the reasons mentioned earlier, there are some non-detergent oils that tested well.
Only trouble is, they are not separated out in the listings
Redline Racing oil was one.
Other detergent type Redline oils did not test well, in spite of their expensive price tags.
Extra high zddp also was not found to be a benefit.
One of the Redline oils that failed under low pressure had 2200 ppm Zddp.
It seems somewhere around 1200 is a good number for Zddp.

Interesting note, when Jim Comstock was doing all of this testing and found great results with the low cost BelRay, he called them to find out how the oil was made.
In the discussion, and not knowing Jim was the Accessnorton oil tester, they suggested he have a look at the Accessnorton forum as there was a member there doing very involved and accurate oil testing.  *smile*



Glen
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Black Sheep on 26.01. 2019 14:27
The resident oil expert on the Norton Owners forum was unimpressed with these tests. He tests oils for a living and really should know. Just to stir things up, he generally favours synthetics, even for our old machines.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: worntorn on 26.01. 2019 16:22
The resident oil expert on the Norton Owners forum was unimpressed with these tests. He tests oils for a living and really should know. Just to stir things up, he generally favours synthetics, even for our old machines.

You'll have to do better than that.
It's not really an oil thread until the word "idiot" is used :)

Glen
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 26.01. 2019 17:18
he generally favours synthetics, even for our old machines.

Synthetic oil was not developed to provide worse engine lubrication, to be fair.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: RDfella on 26.01. 2019 18:18
Brian - you say you've never seen an engine damaged through using the wrong oil. Dunno what egines you've worked on, but I've seen several. Worst case was a boat engine which went bang just an hour after the owner put in the latest high-detergent oil. Result was that it started consuming oil at an alarming rate (emptied the sump in an hour) and then it was goodbye engine. I fitted a new one for him, and remember a boat engine producing several hundred horsepower runs into thousands. Many other examples if you want, including a rare vintage engine running its bearings.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Black Sheep on 26.01. 2019 18:23
Way back, my father put steam locomotive superheater oil in his 680cc Zenith. His Dad was an engine driver and had liberated a gallon from the shed. The Zenith managed 30 miles before running the big ends. Being 30 miles from home and now without transport, he accepted a local dealer's straight swap of a side valve 350cc AJS for it. I bet it took him a bit longer to get home on that...
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 26.01. 2019 19:22
Way back, my father put steam locomotive superheater oil in his 680cc Zenith. His Dad was an engine driver and had liberated a gallon from the shed. The Zenith managed 30 miles before running the big ends.

Does a superheater have moving parts needing oil?

Steam cylinder oil can have a viscosity index of 1,000 and would be most unsuitable for for a petrol engine.
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Tomcat on 27.01. 2019 02:16
The resident oil expert on the Norton Owners forum was unimpressed with these tests. He tests oils for a living and really should know. Just to stir things up, he generally favours synthetics, even for our old machines.

You'll have to do better than that.
It's not really an oil thread until the word "idiot" is used :)

Glen







Everyone on here plays nice!
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: kiwipom on 27.01. 2019 06:06
Hi guys seeing that we are talking Oil, here is some advice from the 60s , cheers
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: mikeb on 27.01. 2019 07:08
golly, Kiwi, maybe i should try that! would it affect my green party membership?
Title: Re: Oil
Post by: Black Sheep on 27.01. 2019 07:09
The superheater doesn't need oil of course but oil for a superheated steam engine had different requirements from an engine using saturated steam. So it's down to terminology. I was really referring to oil for superheated steam locomotive cylinders. Still not suitable for 680cc Zeniths though. The bike cost him £3 in 1928 when he was 14. Hate to think what they fetch now.