The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Frame (everything attached to...) => Topic started by: rajclassicbiker on 24.05. 2019 21:35

Title: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 24.05. 2019 21:35
Hi , I wonder if anyone can help advise me how to go about getting the correct colour for my 53 plunger A10 .  I want to keep the original colour - can I get the frame powder coated in the correct and matching colour ?  Having just about sorted all the mechanical/ electrical issues the bike goes well and I was hoping to ride it around with a view to a winter strip for painting - does anyone know where I can get some reasonably priced touch up to tide me over ?   
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 25.05. 2019 04:44
You can not match the polly chromatic  finish in powder coat.
There is a close finish in Dulux Acran isocyanate 2 pack but that is a professional only paint.
The deep greenish tinge comes from the black base coat showing through the top beige coats.
The flat beige is over white or yellow.
The finish is quite hard to do and expensive which is one reason why BSA changed from the lusterious beige to a flat beige then on to all sorts of colours.
It is exactly the same as spraying a metallic
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 25.05. 2019 08:13
Hi Trevor, Thanks for the reply which is kind of what I thought - difficult and expensive !
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 26.05. 2019 09:26
Nope.
use the std poxy green rubbing coat to get the tank smooth
Then 1 or 2 coats of black.
After that a beige lacquer which you just keep putting more coats on till you are happy with the finish.
No matter what colour it ends up 75% of the people you see will tell you and every one else withing 50 meters how wrong your colour is.
Polly Palmer at Brit Tie in Wales used to sell a fairly close match if you sprayed over a black undercoat but they can no longer post.
Get a touch up spray gun because they have a small fan & it is hard to overspray with one and do it yourself.
It is not hard and a small gun will run off a small compressor.
The HVLP type of guns are the best to use
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 26.05. 2019 10:02
Many thanks for the advice - I am planning on a winter strip down so it is good to plan ahead .
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Swarfcut on 26.05. 2019 13:44
Raj If you have any original painted parts to compare the colour, that's fine. If not a trip to your local Supermarket Car Park will give you literally hundreds of poly golds to choose. When you are happy with a particular colour take the details of the car make and model or your original painted part to your local bodyshop, or Auto Paint Supplier. They have colour swatches available so you can chose the precise colour.  Then you can get them to mix for you.

   You will never replicate the true factory colour, in fact the colour shade in production was rumoured to change by the day as successive differing batches were added to the paint storage vessels. Polycolours of this early type were in the hands of the sprayers, and because the final shade depended on the opacity of the top coat, two different sprayers would produce two different shades, depending on how heavy they were laying it on.

 In the early 1970's the nearest off the shelf colours we used were Ford Saturn or Amber Gold, very popular on MK2 Cortina's and early Capri's and so easily available then....

 Once happy with the colour, the paint type choice is down to good old homespray cellulose, if available, or professionally applied  Poisonous Two Pack.  It all depends how much you want to spend. There is a lot to be said for plain black. Rattle cans, either stock colour or custom filled acrylic will be expensive and getting a perfect finish all over with a can is difficult.

 Swarfy.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: worntorn on 26.05. 2019 14:16
One of the many problems I've encountered when painting bike parts, especially fuel tanks , is finding a fuel resistant clear coat.
It's frustrating to put all the work into the job then see it damaged by a fuel spill, which eventually happens.

Glen
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: RDfella on 26.05. 2019 16:19
As Swarfy - and the Stones - said, paint it black. No worries then - although there are shades of black these days, believe it or not.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Greybeard on 26.05. 2019 17:44
My bike was professionally done in two-pack black. It seems to be very durable. Petrol and UK white spirit don't touch it.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 26.05. 2019 17:55
HI , Many thanks for all the advice . It has occurred  to me to paint it in a nice black ( easy etc. ) and I have seen one done and it looked great . Then I look at mine and think ... it does look good in beige ! I well remember the 1970s and the colours especially the cortinas ( I was driving a Mk2 GT in green - wish that it had'nt rusted to nothing !) . I was thinking the gold 1600E cortina was close in colour . By the way I need a bottom fork leg if anyone has one or knows where I can source one  - not urgent but I want to change the right hand one before painting as it has a repair .
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: RDfella on 26.05. 2019 18:24
How about black frame and rest of tinware beige? That's how I did my GF. I think the contrast sets the beige off better, but that's only my opinion.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 26.05. 2019 18:54
Thanks RD - not a bad idea . I saw a green A7 , recently , and this was done with a black frame and it looked good .
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Swarfcut on 26.05. 2019 19:24
Raj.. If you had a MK2 Cortina GT back in the day,  (flash B*s*a*d) you know that's  the colour we went for..   the rather nice 1600E Gold.  You mention the rust, they were rusting as they were built, (unpainted shells stored out in the rain), Classic Mini bodies for example at Pressed Steel Fisher (now the Jaguar Plant) at Castle Bromwich, Birmingham. Yet folks wondered why they rusted. Simple answer!! Rusting to start with and the rust sealed under that lovely black underseal. No cavity wax, and water traps in the design.

 With increasing wage demands in the 1970's all manufacturers economised on the vehicle production cost, particularly paint. What used to be a four or 5 part finish became a flash of primer and a top coat. My MK 1 Capri had the thinnest paint ever, metallic blue, and  was sold on before it folded completely....now look what the survivors fetch. I bought a Triumph GT6.....even worse for rust, let it go for peanuts. With the Oil Crisis it was hard to move on....we all thought the End of the World was coming.

  Can't believe the prices people are prepared pay for those clankers these days. Especially as the labour relations were bad and quality control was a swear word.

 Swarfy.

Sorry to drift off topic, thought it was 1976.......
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: RDfella on 26.05. 2019 20:15
Swarfy - the benefit of hindsight. 20/20 vision. Had a Riley Pathfinder back around '67 - got so fed up with niggling breakdowns that I sent it to the dump. Around the same time or a couple of years later I pondered buying an AC Cobra (owned by a well-known racing driver) for a grand. Figured it wasn't really suitable for everyday driving (road registered but full race trim) so didn't bother. What's a genuine original Cobra worth now? Bought a MK2 Jag instead. Swapped that for a MK 11 GT Cortina (alpine green) when I got tired of the Jag's thirst. And yes, did they rust.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 26.05. 2019 21:29
Thanks for the memories !! My mk11 GT Cortina was alpine green as well - reg. no. LBE 777F . Funny how I can remember regs. from back then but could'nt tell you my modern box's number is ! The biggest miss I had was an e type DHC . I got it going for the owner ( in my own time as I worked for a garage) and he offered me the car for £300 - I was 17 and decided I could'nt stretch to the high insurance ... Well that is right off the subject now so to finish with I am pleased to say I finished rebuilding my RE Cont. Gt  , today and it turns out to be the earliest known survivor - it is as uncomfortable as it looks and my bones much prefer the A10 .
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 27.05. 2019 08:16

   You will never replicate the true factory colour, in fact the colour shade in production was rumoured to change by the day as successive differing batches were added to the paint storage vessels. Polycolours of this early type were in the hands of the sprayers, and because the final shade depended on the opacity of the top coat, two different sprayers would produce two different shades, depending on how heavy they were laying it on.

 
 Swarfy.

Only know 1 person who has owned an A10 from new.
Of the first batch of 20 that came into Burlings & Simmons showroom Ken told me there was only 2 bikes that were the same colour from the front to the rear.
One was in their window and the other Ken rode out the door after the tried to fob him off with a brand new bike that had 4 different shades of "Golden Beige".
The only 2 parts that were the same exact colour were the front & back guards but they were different to all of the other painted parts.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Sluggo on 27.05. 2019 09:04
Just my 2 centavo here, But its pointless to try and replicate the factory original finish.  First of all we are talking paint products that are no longer in production, and very outdated ones at that. I cant speak for the rest of the world, But here in the MAGA USA, In many jurisdictions, Using old lacquer products will get you a sizable fine and selling those paint products is very illegal.  EPA-Environmental Protection Agency, DEQ- Dept of Environmental Quality as well as regional agencies investigate and prosecute.

Not to mention those old products are very polluting, they are also substandard to whats availible today.  I used to shoot old paint products like Lacquers and catalyzed Enamels.  They were very tempermental. Poor adhesion, Humidity, temp and air pressure all could result in Varying finish color, texture and quality.  Never mind the batch variables.   Not to mention not very durable, quick fading from UV rays, Poor resistance to fuels, oils and chemicals like brake fluids if juice brakes.

Very labor intensive as well.

My procedure is color match with a modern paint to a comparable color. (Be sure to check under different lighting)  Color match by chemistry and a skilled paint tech. ( I used to do collision repairs and paid for pro color matches by a technician that resembles a mad scientist in a lab.).  Or approximate a color that pleases you and purists and rivet counters be damned.

For example, My wifes 2004 Toyota Corolla SL is a pretty decent, although muted gold-beige color that I think is pretty decent match.

But,, Just had this conversation with several others on the topic of Matchless/Norton Candy apple reds.  (I have a Matchless G80CS, And several N15Cs & G15CS that all use this color, Painted a few BSAs- Unit A65 and B44 a darker Brandywine version.

I am a big fan of the US paint companies products called House of Kolor, Formerly owned by John Kosmoski.

They have a wide range of products, But if you want a color that has extreme depth and pizazz to it..The I recommend House of Kolor.  (I use a Valspar Poly clear thats extremely durable, incredible deep wet look to it)  HOK was bought out and is under Valspar now... but its a quality paint.

They make a base coat in colors,, but the true deep and rich stuff uses a tintable primer, and what color you pick can affect the final colors,, then a base coat,, often Gold, silver or select from the chart. Pick big flake/sparkle or small-fine flake then follow with the semi translucent color tint coat, Whether Candy Apple red,, Gold, Green, Blue or whatever you choose.

See: https://www.houseofkolor.com/homepage/
https://www.houseofkolor.com/kolors/?ref=topnav

All the technical instruction you could ever hope for,, I have taken seminars and classes from the master himself.

https://www.houseofkolor.com/how-to/?ref=topnav
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: KiwiGF on 27.05. 2019 12:01
This is almost as “controversial” as an oil thread  *eek* I just sold an A10 nacelle to a guy in Alaska, he particularly wanted it because it was a NOS part in beige, so he could match the rest of his bike too it. So he’s made a pretty good attempt to match the original colour, at some cost, and I suppose he’s got a good story to tell about he went about it.

I would describe the colour as more beige than golden, most restored A10’s I’ve seen in beige are much brighter and more “yellow” (or gold) than the original colour.

I painted my bike black as I don’t particularly like the original beige colour and don’t see the point in painting it a “nicer” beige when I prefer many other colours I left the underneath of a fork yoke with the original beige paint though, should a future owner want to revert it to its ex factory colour.

Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Sluggo on 27.05. 2019 21:10
Personally< I think the Beige Gold color really stands out, Its an odd choice for a color IMHO, but in a sea of modern motorcycles at an event it really stands out, Especially with a blood red pinstripe job.  However,, I have seen some plunger bikes painted Black with Red accents and they were very striking as well.  One of them the rims were black as well with the matching red accents painted on the wheel centers and lined with gold pinstripes.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 28.05. 2019 09:05
Thanks for all the information . Especially the fact that the paint was not a consistent colour all over the bike ( mine is'nt ! and part of the reason I am thinking of painting ) . My bike is mostly a mellow beige with some bits which ( like the hubs )are clearly too gold .  The debate in my mind goes on ! Do I stick with beige or go black ( which I also agree looks stunning when done right ).     
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Swarfcut on 28.05. 2019 09:36
Stick with the original colour. Presumably it is described on the V5 as a colour other than black. It is a Golden Flash and in that colour a period piece worth retaining. Plenty of time to consider how or when you go about it, but in the meantime  get it to be a reliable runner, get a bit of enjoyment while there is no restrictions on your use. 

 No one will see the colour variation as you go by and after a while you'll accept it as part of its charm, you could always say it was "colour matched by experts"...from SpeccySavers.

 Keep Spannering.

 Swarfy.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: AdrianJ on 28.05. 2019 11:38
Mine is black and when I wanted to spray various parts I contacted a paint supplier who told me that the correct BSA black is 94 parts black and 6 parts violet and that I wouldn't be able to see the violet component, so I might as well use straight black. I have done and I can't tell the difference even where I ave used it to touch up the existing colour. Though, of course there is no guarantee that this was original anyway. *conf*
Adrian
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Simon59 on 28.05. 2019 12:59
I've gone from the original black to beige in my restoration. I agree that it's more difficult (and a bit more expensive) but I think it looks great, and its what I wanted.

It's being done in two-pack paint by a local sprayer, based on the colour I bought (Polychromatic Silver Beige Pearl) from RS Bike Paint, over a black undercoat. He's done half my parts to date. Still a long way to go though, but it's comming on well...!
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 28.05. 2019 13:58
Thanks for all the information . Especially the fact that the paint was not a consistent colour all over the bike ( mine is'nt ! and part of the reason I am thinking of painting ) . My bike is mostly a mellow beige with some bits which ( like the hubs )are clearly too gold .  The debate in my mind goes on ! Do I stick with beige or go black ( which I also agree looks stunning when done right ).   
Goes like this.
The tanks were made in one of the Reddich factories and painted there.
The oil tanks were made at Small Heath & painted there.
The front & rear guars may have been made in house or bought in from Singer who rolled most of the mudguards.
The tool box was made by BSA but heaven knows which one of the 14 factories made it.
Then they all get joined together to be a motorcycle.

This practice was fine back in the  days of fully virtified enamel which will always be the same colour thus the Maroon parts could have been made at 10 different plants but would all look almost identical as the colour is an oxide and independent of operator variables .
Pigment paint is a different matter.

If you get your hands on original test rides you will see the consistent complaints about poor colour matching of the various parts.
So a bike where every part is a different shade of beige is original.
One where the bike is all the same colour is over restored.

Some where in my some what random filing system is an article about how the Golden Flash got it's name.
Originally it was going to be plain old A 10 the BSA won some Gold medals , think it was using A 7's  so some one in the marketing division decided to capitalize on the publicity and call the bike the Golden Flash.
Then they got a real brain fart and decided to repaint the bikes that were already black, gold.
Thus the 50 to 54 models were beige over high gloss black thus creating one of the earliest "metallic" paint finishes.

Sluggo is quite right it is near impossible to accurately recreate the finish with modern paints and definately not with a single coat other than the isocyanate 2 packs.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: jonny web on 28.05. 2019 15:20
i thought i d stick my oar in here too.
I m building a 51 golden flash and intend to get it as close as i can to original spec. i found some original paint on the front mudguard stay and think i can mix gold and silver hammerite to a fairly close shade, a cheap and easy solution, and when it starts to chip and fade and run with petrol, well so much the better as the engine wont get polished either. What do you think ?
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Greybeard on 28.05. 2019 16:42
Some where in my some what random filing system is an article about how the Golden Flash got it's name.
Originally it was going to be plain old A 10 the BSA won some Gold medals , think it was using A 7's  so some one in the marketing division decided to capitalize on the publicity and call the bike the Golden Flash.
Now, that's interesting. I thought the name came after they painted some gold(en).
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Swarfcut on 28.05. 2019 18:02
The Smoothrite version would be my choice. Seems a very good idea, well worth a try.

Swarfy.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: edboy on 28.05. 2019 18:27
i always use the smoothrite gold on my a10s as i find the original poly gold too drab. cheap and easy to spray or paint on.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 28.05. 2019 21:09
Many thanks for all the posts - some great ideas and historical facts . I will take my time to decide and in the meantime do some 'crusin' .   
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: Butch (cb) on 29.05. 2019 10:39
I can only comment that this stuff isn't worth a damn;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004SMP6QE?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_dt_1
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 29.05. 2019 10:41
Thanks I will do my best to avoid it !
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 30.05. 2019 11:10
I can only comment that this stuff isn't worth a damn;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004SMP6QE?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_dt_1

So what on Amazon is worth buying ?
All too easy to import a container load or trash from a third world country, pay a web designer in India £ 50 to make you a web page that looks like you ar a big well established company, get Amazon to warehouse & distribute your junk then close down as soon as the lot is sold an by preference before your tax is due
The last place I contracted to used to rent out spare warehouse bays to ebay vendors .
All of them very shady characters and most selling counterfeit goods.
Some were even so dodgy we would not pick their product till they had paid the picking & postage & the payment was confirmed.

So amazon is not on my shopping list and this is even before the fact that they record every thing you look at, every thing you buy, your credit card details , your address and sell all of this data to anyone & every one who will stump up the cash and that is before the hackers breaking into their data base trying to steal the said same information.
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: rajclassicbiker on 30.05. 2019 11:14
You pretty much sum up our worst fears ! It feels like a race to the bottom of the s...heap .
Title: Re: A10 polychromatic beige paint
Post by: jonny web on 23.05. 2021 19:25
i thought i d stick my oar in here too.
I m building a 51 golden flash and intend to get it as close as i can to original spec. i found some original paint on the front mudguard stay and think i can mix gold and silver hammerite to a fairly close shade, a cheap and easy solution, and when it starts to chip and fade and run with petrol, well so much the better as the engine wont get polished either. What do you think ?
i tried this by the way and it didnt work, much too much metallic, whereas polychromatic beige is just that...beige. I have a feeling MB champagne may be a good match and will try and find a colour swatch