The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Frame => Topic started by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2019 13:01

Title: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2019 13:01
I recently saw a side stand break. Chap with a very sweet 1951 A10 was starting the machine on a sloping, rough-surfaced car park. The side stand was down on the downward slope. I think he must have lost his balance; he is a shortish man. The bike fell over to the left side with the rider's leg under the bike. He was not hurt. The bike was not seriously damaged but the side stand lug broke away from the frame. Very annoying! This made me think I need to be careful with my side stand as it has the lug attached to the frame, the same as that machine.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: berger on 14.07. 2019 13:43
I have not been to the pub--- never get out of the boat , and never start ya bike on the side stand- its a stand not a starting poll *pull hair out* *bash*
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2019 14:44
I have not been to the pub--- never get out of the boat , and never start ya bike on the side stand- its a stand not a starting poll *pull hair out* *bash*

I agree and I do not start with either stand down.

This man is shorter than me plus the ground was tricky. I think the bike lurched over to the left when his left foot slipped while he was kicking.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: berger on 14.07. 2019 15:06
mmmm being short broke my heart when I was 11, they wouldn't let me do the cycling proficiency test because I couldn't touch the ground with both feet *sad2* so I pulled a big wheelie on my way out *whistle*
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RogerSB on 14.07. 2019 16:12
I agree and I do not start with either stand down.

I must confess I've always started my G/Flash while standing beside it and with it firmly on the main stand, then I hop on (well, not literally these days) and with both feet on the ground and my right hand hovering over the front brake lever I push the bike forward off the stand.  I've always done it that way - even way back in the 60s. Occasionally, and only when needs must, do I start it while astride it and then it's with both stands folded up. I don't think I've ever attempted to kick a bike over with it on a side stand. I only use the side stand very temporary, such as when getting off it and then I put it on the main stand straight away.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Swarfcut on 14.07. 2019 16:35
You and me both Roger. Always envied those blokes able to start a stone cold motor, balancing on just the wheels and a left leg. I needed to almost dance on the kicker, being of slim build and of puny physique like the sort of guy who got the sand in the Charles Atlas ads. Having the bike on the main stand meant all my effort went into starting the motor, rather than compressing the road springs. Never trust the prop stand, and only use it for short periods.

Swarfy.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RogerSB on 14.07. 2019 17:04
It's one of the things I liked when I had a DA Canterbury sidecar attached to an A10 way back - just leave it in gear and get off. No stands to worry about, no balancing needed and a firm platform to kick it over. Also, and this is the one, you could drive it with your left elbow resting on the top of the sidecar - and look really cool!

By-the-way I've always kicked bikes over with my right foot, never the left. I don't think I could do it that way without falling over, and like Swarfy I tend to get it on compression and do a little jump and all my 13 st goes down on the kickstart - never fails.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2019 17:11
The Plungie has a low saddle and the standard compression means I'm happy to start the bike off the stand, with legs astride.
This is me: https://youtu.be/nrOfq1O-gV8?t=275
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RogerSB on 14.07. 2019 17:22
The Plungie has a low saddle and the standard compression means I'm happy to start the bike off the stand, with legs astride.
This is me: https://youtu.be/nrOfq1O-gV8?t=275

Great. It's good to air our different techniques - we all learn that way.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: edboy on 14.07. 2019 22:49
cast sidestand lugs break quite often . then your left with a useless stand only.
keep meaning to fabricate one from mild steel.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 15.07. 2019 09:02
In 1974 I managed to rip my right foot off.
Won't do that again cause it hurt real bad.
So ever since I learned to walk again it was left foot kicking standing next to the bike.
They say every cloud has a silver lining and this one was it is substantially easier to stand next to your bike and kick with your left foot than it is to use the right
This is regardless of weather you are cross legged standing next to the bike or leaping from a low earth orbit onto the starter pedal with the bike on either one of the stands.
Took a few months to get over the awkward feeling but by 1980 It was second nature.
Using the left foot also gives a lot more control over how far you kick so no more short flights over the bars for me.
No popped knees it is fantastic.
Even better still, because you are now kicking as disposed from leaping from a great height, you no longer need to hold the bars so you don't open the throttle as your body arches down.
Thus the B50 which was always a 20 minute start job suddenly fired first kick.
SWMBO that tops the scales at 50kg wringing wet wearing 4 heavy jackets suddenly found she could start all of the bikes easily ( not such a smart move on my behalf ) and I have trained dozens of light weight women to kick left footed to start their bikes, it is really easier .   
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Greybeard on 15.07. 2019 09:40
I can see that left foot starting might be OK. Just need to get over the feeling of appearing to be unmanly.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RDfella on 15.07. 2019 15:45
Surely the logical position is to stand astride the bike, in which case only the right foot is possible (assuming you're facing the right way). Standing beside the bike to start (with either left or right foot) worries me insomuch as the bike could easily fall away from you and you wouldn't be in a position to stop it. I never use the centre stand (too damned hard) but sometimes leave the side stand down (but not touching the ground) when kick-starting.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: bikerbob on 15.07. 2019 17:21
As I have mentioned before I have 2 bikes an A7 1956 swinging arm model and a 1963 A65.  I have tried kicking the A7 over off the stand but there is no way I can press the kickstart down with my left foot on the ground I have to rise up in the air to press it down and this means that for a second or so the only contact with the ground is the 2 wheels so I feel safer starting with the bike on the center stand I would never try to start it with the bike on the side stand. Now the A65 which has the same compression as the A7  is very easy to kick over with my left foot on the ground the difference is really quite noticeable, I put this down to possibly 2 things the A65 has 18" wheels whereas the A7 has 19" wheels aalso maybe the kiskstart gearing is different.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Peter in Aus on 16.07. 2019 03:23
On my A7 I start it with both stands up with no trouble, but the A10 I start it on the side stand as I have not got the "umph" to start it off the stand. To B----- hard to get it on the back stand every time I stop!
Don't like the idea of starting it off the bike, to out of control for me!
I have modified my side stand so as it pushers against the frame rather than twisting the frame, not so good in soft ground.
I also have to mount the A10 standing on the left foot rest with the side stand down as I cannot swing my leg high enough, I think it is a age problem *rant* but at 81 I can't complain. 
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: orabanda on 16.07. 2019 07:54
Hi Peter,
I will be pleased if i can still swing my leg over at 81!
Richard
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 16.07. 2019 08:16
Surely the logical position is to stand astride the bike, in which case only the right foot is possible (assuming you're facing the right way). Standing beside the bike to start (with either left or right foot) worries me insomuch as the bike could easily fall away from you and you wouldn't be in a position to stop it. I never use the centre stand (too damned hard) but sometimes leave the side stand down (but not touching the ground) when kick-starting.

Actually when you think about it it is not.
Standing next to the bike, it has 2 wheels on the ground and you have one leg on the ground.
But you are kicking with the leg BETWEEN the bike & your leg on the ground.
Depressing the kick start pedal will stand to make the bike fall to the right where you are bracing it.

Standing astride you are doing the same thing but you are unbalanced because if the bike tends to fall to the right, there is noting to stop it.
And we have all seen some one trying to kick astride the bike and have the bike fall over to the right on top of them.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RogerSB on 16.07. 2019 08:36
With it on the main stand it can't fall over - so no worries there.
Also I'm right handed and my G/Flash always needs a little twist of the throttle to start. I don't know how I could control that properly with my left hand if kicking with my left foot and with the right it would mean twisting my body also. With bike secure on main stand, right foot to kick, right hand controlling throttle comes natural to me.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RDfella on 16.07. 2019 20:07
BSA-54 – I have to say your logic escapes me.
“Standing astride you are doing the same thing but you are unbalanced because if the bike tends to fall to the right, there is noting to stop it. And we have all seen some one trying to kick astride the bike and have the bike fall over to the right on top of them.”
Nothing stopping the bike fallig to the right? What about your right leg? It’s only on the kickstart for a second or two. And we’ve all seen ….. well, in 60 yrs of motorcycling the next time for me will be the first…..
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Rex on 16.07. 2019 22:12
I never try and start any bike on a stand as to me it's mechanical punishment for the old girl.
Two wheels and a left foot (occasionally right) is sufficient for me.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Slymo on 16.07. 2019 23:26
My bike had recieved some very traumatizing attention in the side stand department so I was forced to carve a perch from billet steel. The really tricky bit was putting it in the right place and ensuring the leg when extended was far enough forward not to simply roll off the stand (I did discover this the hard way). Quite a techicnical bit of kit for a propping stick. I've got it right now but first choice is always the main stand unless ground conditions prohibit it.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: ironhead on 16.07. 2019 23:51
In 1974 I managed to rip my right foot off.
Won't do that again cause it hurt real bad.
So ever since I learned to walk again it was left foot kicking standing next to the bike.
They say every cloud has a silver lining and this one was it is substantially easier to stand next to your bike and kick with your left foot than it is to use the right
This is regardless of weather you are cross legged standing next to the bike or leaping from a low earth orbit onto the starter pedal with the bike on either one of the stands.
Took a few months to get over the awkward feeling but by 1980 It was second nature.
Using the left foot also gives a lot more control over how far you kick so no more short flights over the bars for me.
No popped knees it is fantastic.
Even better still, because you are now kicking as disposed from leaping from a great height, you no longer need to hold the bars so you don't open the throttle as your body arches down.
Thus the B50 which was always a 20 minute start job suddenly fired first kick.
SWMBO that tops the scales at 50kg wringing wet wearing 4 heavy jackets suddenly found she could start all of the bikes easily ( not such a smart move on my behalf ) and I have trained dozens of light weight women to kick left footed to start their bikes, it is really easier .   

Makes perfect sense to me ( except in reverse) In the 80's I sold & raced Husky's & KTM's, they were all left hand kickers, so stood next to the bike ( left) & started using my right foot. Some Enduro's were pretty tough
but never had the bike fall over from trying to start. Fell over by heaps of other causes though *eek*
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: duTch on 17.07. 2019 04:51
 The stock prop stand for my Gutzzi is a prick of a thing that flicks up as soon as the weight is off it (sometimes ok but generally not), so I ditched it and made up a kind of a copy of a Cali type one- is a long term project that started before I went to Mullbin in'99...does the job though. Bottom line is I can start it real easy standing either side, but kicking it is a total bitch act *whistle*- that's when I fall over *eek*- but after a couple of weeks in the oh-so-Big-Smoke (Mullbin), I learned it's much easier to bump start it when I realised doing lots of short trips Star-Trekkin' around town doesn't allow it to recharge properly, especially running a 90/100W QH headlight

 Bezza is a piece of *** though but only start it on a (prop)stand when doing maintenance *conf2*
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 17.07. 2019 09:15
BSA-54 – I have to say your logic escapes me.
“Standing astride you are doing the same thing but you are unbalanced because if the bike tends to fall to the right, there is noting to stop it. And we have all seen some one trying to kick astride the bike and have the bike fall over to the right on top of them.”
Nothing stopping the bike fallig to the right? What about your right leg? It’s only on the kickstart for a second or two. And we’ve all seen ….. well, in 60 yrs of motorcycling the next time for me will be the first…..

hat depends upon how fast you can get your foot off the starter pedal and on to the ground.
It also depends upon the tilt angles
I do see people lean the bike to the left when say starting a stalled bike at the traffic lights but if the bike was fully vertical, by the time you get your leg, not only on the ground but far enough away to brace the bike you are on the ground.
If I have seen this once I have seen it happen 100 times.
The other biggie is when you feel the bike falling you slip the foot off the pedal and then the bike kicks back.

It goes back to that arguement about which side to put a walking stick.
On the injured side and put all your weight on it as you walk or on the good side so your bad foot is taking a very small amount of weight.
Next time you hurt you foot, give it a try.

and aas for holding the bike cross handed, no need, right hand where it normally goes and left hand the same , unless you have short arms in which case you turn the bars to the left and put your left hand on the saddle.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: muskrat on 17.07. 2019 10:25
G'day fellas.
I almost always use the side stand when kicking a bike over but I put very little weight on it. I'm a little vertically challenged.
I only kick from the right side if it's on the main stand.
Cheers
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Gerry on 22.07. 2019 08:58
Hi Peter, Good to know there's another silly old 81 year old still into BSA's. I start my A10 on the centre stand using my right foot to start her. Then my right foot goes on the foot peg so I can just about get my left leg over the saddle, then left leg on the ground and right foot lifts the gear lever into first, bump my idiot on the seat as I let the clutch out to get her off the stand and away we go. Go for a ride and when I get home go for a lie own for a couple of days to recover. Nothing like an 81 year old going on 18 eh? Cheers. Gerry
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Greybeard on 22.07. 2019 09:56
I let the clutch out to get her off the stand and away we go.
I understand why you do this Gerry but I do not recommend riding off the centre stand like that. If the stand doesn't break, the pivots will rapidly wear.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RDfella on 22.07. 2019 12:26
I've got this picture in my head of an octogenarian giving the bike a massive fistfull as he wheelies off the centre stand and emerges at speed from his garage. Wouldn't recommend it myself.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: bikerbob on 22.07. 2019 16:55
Well I am 77 now so am far too cautious to even try something like that. I think how you start your bike is a personal thing whatever makes you feel safe. My proceedure now which I have only adopted this year is back the bike out of the garage onto the drive put the bike on the center stand start the bike then flick out the side stand, take the bike off the center stand then lean the bike on the side stand whilst mounting the bike then lift vertical and drive away. when stopping before I get off the bike I lean it over onto the side stand then dismount then I put the bike on the center stand. This proceedure is what I find easiest and safest for me.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Gerry on 23.07. 2019 00:52
Hi Guys, Actually I think I got that a bit wrong....After starting the bike and have selected first gear I have both feet on the ground and push forward on the bars and rest my backside on the seat to give purchase to the rear wheel which helps to get her off the stand although can still be difficult especially if on a slight camber of the road. On occasion have had assistance when seen to struggle. I think I might try Bikerbob's style and put the side stand down before manually lifting her off the centre stand. OK providing it doesn't stop before getting back on!!! Then I would have to put her back on the centre stand again at great effort. There is no way I can start her without the centre stand, tried it once and the bike fell over on its right side spilling fuel out of the Indian tank filler cap all over the garage floor and then having to strain my back trying to pick it back up. Fortunately didn't do any damage to the bike. (The joys of being old) Cheers Gerry
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Peter in Aus on 23.07. 2019 01:21
I let the clutch out to get her off the stand and away we go.

That how we did it at 18 would not try it at 81 *yeah*
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: muskrat on 23.07. 2019 09:01
G'day fellas.
I think rolling the bike off the center stand while the side stand is down is fraught with danger. Usually all stand work is done from the left side. Coming down off the c/stand there is a possibility the s/stand will hit the ground, roll forward and bike fall to the right away from you.
I always fuel my rhonda on the c/stand (need to get every drop in). Once I forgot to put the s/stand up and over she went. Funny how with embarrassment and adrenaline one can lift a 260+Kg bike up off the ground!
Cheers
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: bikerbob on 23.07. 2019 09:08
I take your point Musky but it has not happened uptill now but I suppose it  could but the main point in using the  side stand is to make it much safer mounting and dismounting the bike you don't have to balance the bike.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: RDfella on 23.07. 2019 09:58
Getting old and feeble is so frustrating. I’m 6ft and 16st and although I remain physically active and busy (can still – just - lift a hundredweight (50kg) movement is compromised. I always mount a bike before starting up, though nowadays swinging my leg over a modern bike is frequently impossible. My BSA’s are somewhat easier.
Regarding my GF, I simply cannot get it onto its centre stand. Tried again last night. Couldn’t do it for ten grand. Therefore it’s only used for maintenance – and then I have to get my son to lift it on for me. I realise there are various methods to assist – such as a wood block below the wheel etc, but that seems more trouble than it’s worth. Will have to try one of my paddock stands. Thanks BSA for such a crappy design.
When parking any bike I always use the side stand (most modern bikes don’t have a centre stand anyway). That includes my B31 and M21, though I can get both onto their centre stands if necessary as they are lifted from the rear (as opposed to the side as is the case with the GF). Apart from the GF, B31 and M21 my other bikes either have a side stand only or no stand at all.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: coater87 on 23.07. 2019 10:52
 I am 48, in pretty good shape, and its a struggle for me to get the bike on the center stand. You guys in your seventies and eighties still heaving a BSA up are doing one helluva good job.

 Having a bike with a center stand is pretty much a novelty over here. Bikes are parked and started off the side stand.

 Being able to stand besides the BSA and start it off the center stand took a little learning and getting used to but its much more stable.

 Its not uncommon to see the hard core harley guys standing (with both feet off the ground) on the kicker to get over TDC, There is a reason those side stands are very well made. Now why those guys think a side stand should stick out from the bike 3 feet is another question. *dunno2*

 Lee
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Greybeard on 23.07. 2019 11:41
.. why those guys think a side stand should stick out from the bike 3 feet is another question. *dunno2*
Everything is bigger in America
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: bikerbob on 23.07. 2019 17:14
For those of you who have problems getting the bike onto the center stand just type "main stand" in the search box then click on number 1. this is a mod done by kiwiprom I have done it on my A7 and it does work and make it easy to get the bike on the stand just using your foot and the lever. The only problem I have with it is if you look at photo 2 you see the angle of the  lever this I find awkward to get my foot too and you caannot change the angle to a more vertical position because if you did the lever will hit the ground before the bike is on the stand but it does work.

mod edit. link to said topic https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11055.msg92131#msg92131
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: coater87 on 24.07. 2019 11:42
.. why those guys think a side stand should stick out from the bike 3 feet is another question. *dunno2*
Everything is bigger in America

 Yes, sometimes it gets a little cartoonish.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: cyclobutch on 29.07. 2019 16:59
I only use the main stand for service tasks, it's too tricky to use the rest of the time. I'm tall enough and young(ish) enough to be comfortable starting the bike astride it with the side stand up. And it starts real easy too.

What I can't manage is left foot kicker. My Morini Camel is thusly adorned. When it's cold I have to stand alongside to use my right foot on it. But it is a high bike (an off roader in fact) and that got me to thinking I might need a new hip. Now cleared since I gave up riding that one fortunately. The Nimbus is also left side kicker, and an odd action being an in line engine. But with 4 cylinders and no compression worth speaking of you can start that with your hand if it is up on the table being worked on.
Title: Re: Side stand lug broke!
Post by: Slymo on 31.07. 2019 00:47
My 58 SR had no centre stand when I obtained the bike. this was the year of the 'fabricated' stand that was apparently a bit of a disaster. I bought a new cast one from Burtons or some similar UK outfit and apart from needing the spring mount swapping sides it fit pretty well. It has a long curved lever which sticks out around the muffler and makes it a very easy job to get the bike on the stand. A bit of downward pressure and a gentle nudge and it pops straight up. Nothing like the B44 Shooting star I had that was a pig to pull onto the stand.