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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: a10gf on 30.11. 2019 22:30

Title: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: a10gf on 30.11. 2019 22:30
Nahhh, no need to worry...  *eek*

https://fr-fr.facebook.com/AirCrashDisaster/videos/ups-airlines-flight-6/137687220169168/

"Scientific" testing :O) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUgbmCSmSNY

And very nice to park\charge inside ones house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUlQcyesJx4


Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: mikeb on 01.12. 2019 10:11
maybe no nobel prize for those scientists, nor health and safety awards
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: bikerbob on 01.12. 2019 11:04
It has been proven that some batteries are more at risk than others particular cheap imports from China. So only buy genuine known makes to minimise any risks and never leave the house while any type of battery is on charge and if you have to go out then unplug the charger. There have been a number of TV programs highlighting problems with rechagable batteries
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: RDfella on 01.12. 2019 12:31
And to think the one in your electric car only costs upwards of $10,000
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: Kickaha on 02.12. 2019 05:28
Not if they're a decent one with onboard BMS, I'll be running one in mine when I do the 12v conversion
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: a10gf on 02.12. 2019 08:24
A Norwegian Tesla, will need new batteries (and a few other parts :O)
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: duTch on 02.12. 2019 14:17

 weeell going by all that ^^, I should be well and truly incinerated by now....my Metabo cordless drill which I bought about '06/7 and hadn't been used heaps suddenly died, so I pulled the battery pack apart to see what's in there to find 10 x 18650 cells as shown in the 'experiments'...... I'd always charged the packs carefully, but 6 of the ten in the dud pack showed obvious signs of overheating...and when the other pack di same I made a good pack from the good cells.......so far so good....

 I did some research (which told me the Teslas use 40,000 of these cells) and finally managed to buy a couple of lots of 20 cells online that were safe to ship...so far so good....used ten in the other pack, but they behave different to to stock package but still work ok, but need more regular charges (9.9 Ah as opposed to the original 1.1Ah)  *conf2* *dunno*....

 I also found a chart that apprised the qualities of various sources, but that may have changed over last five years...I learned a fair bit how to be more dangerous through that exercise which led on to trying to power an auxillary BSA headlight with LED's.... *eek*

 A few nights ago I started chatting with a guy in a Tesla maybe 'S' model and he offered my a spin up the road- initially said nah, maybe 'nother time, but quickly thought nah go it now...it went ok, a bit of road and air-con noise but I decided may a Cybertruck might be a goer https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck (https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck) ...that should upset a few  *smile*

Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: a10gf on 02.12. 2019 14:49
Don't get me wrong, I use lots of these cells in tools and they are great. Even got one of these bombs in my pocket at all times, my trusted led torch, and do not expect it to kill me.

These posts a combination of some entertainement + the very serious stuff everyone shoud be well aware of.

Quote
^^^did some research (which told me the Teslas use 40,000 of these cells)
The Tesla's, if they use 40.000 (!) small cells no wonder things happen, just one going bad can start the crazy chain reactions that destroys a car in minutes, like what happened to the ups flight.

edit: Tesla S batt chart > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
5000+ to 8000+ Panasonic 18650's
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: Joolstacho on 02.12. 2019 23:49
Be VERY careful if you start pulling LiPos apart, they can be grenades!
(In other words, don't)
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: duTch on 03.12. 2019 01:11

 
Quote
. Be VERY careful if you start pulling LiPos apart, they can be grenades!
(In other words, don't)

 Point noted,  but I didn't attack the individual cells., just split them from the pack ...That was a few years ago and I understand a little more now  *conf2*
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: Kickaha on 03.12. 2019 04:55
Be VERY careful if you start pulling LiPos apart, they can be grenades!
(In other words, don't)

How do we make them go bang, (asking for a friend)
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: a10gf on 03.12. 2019 10:39
^^^ so you did not click the 'scientific' YT link, all the detailed procedures needed for loosing an eye and some fingers, setting fire to ones house etc.

Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: Kickaha on 04.12. 2019 05:54
^^^ so you did not click the 'scientific' YT link, all the detailed procedures needed for loosing an eye and some fingers, setting fire to ones house etc.

The word scientific threw me off

Excellent, just what I needed
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: a10gf on 04.12. 2019 18:03
^^^ please post some videos of the experiments, including scenes of the paramedics & police that came to fetch you.
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 03.01. 2020 22:21
All rechargable batteries are a container in which a reversible redox ( oxidization- reduction ) happens.
They are all dangerous because you have both the fuel & the oxidization agent in there together.
The higher the potential of the individual cells, the more dangerous the cell is.

When the reaction happens faster than it should, gasses get released just the same as oping you 6 V battery on the 12 V charger.
This can cause the battery to explode if it is not vented some how.

Dry cells are a particular problem because they are wrapped inside a sealed metal container.
That makes them a potential bomb and all that stands between them becoming a hand grenade and powering you device happily for decades is the charge control circuit.
 
Charging a lithium battery on a lead - acid battery charger is a sure way to cause the charge controller to fail.
Using the wrong Lithium charger can also cause them to explode because in some cases the charge controller is imbedded into the battery & in other cases it is in the charger.

Because you have both the fuel source & the oxadizing agent together in the battery, once they go wrong & start burning they can not be extinguished .
You can  smother them with foam, drop them in a tub of water , bury them in a pile of lead oxide, cover them with fire retardent, nothing, absolutely nothing will stop the reaction happening ( burning ) till the chemicals have all been consumed .
The temperatures get very hot well withing the range required to set whatever else is around them to catch fire & burn.
From memory 3 Teslas have burned to the ground and 2 of them took the entire house / garage with them.

The only "safe" large capacity battery are the Bromine / zinc batteries but they are for stationary power supplies only and massive in size ( at least no one will pinch them ).

If you use big Lithium batteries , like in a drill it is prudent to charge the batteries outside or at least place the charger on the floor and never leave it on unattended.
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: Greybeard on 03.01. 2020 23:10
Well that scared the bejasus out of me!
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 04.01. 2020 05:11
Well that scared the bejasus out of me!

And so it should.
Familiarity breeds contempt.
I have a lot of small lithium batteries which get charged sitting in ashtrys, well you got to use them for something.
So if they do go poof in theory they will just sit there and burn in the ashtray.
OTOH it means I am not racing around like a headless chook always looking for the charger, now all the house ones ( phone, cameras, small torches etc ) are all together and labeled
Down in the shed all the chargers are on the welding bench, again another object that should be able to take the heat. and again, ,I know where they all are.
The fumes coming off a burning battery of any kind are very very toxic so weather I survive that is another question. 
Most of the fires are because the owners are using the wrong chargers.
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: a10gf on 04.01. 2020 08:19
Well that scared the bejasus out of me!

And so it should.
Familiarity breeds contempt.
I have a lot of small lithium batteries which get charged sitting in ashtrys, well you got to use them for something.
So if they do go poof in theory they will just sit there and burn in the ashtray.

:O) Yes, in theory. Take a look at the video in 1st post, 02:10  06:15
Title: Re: Are Lithium Batteries Dangerous?
Post by: berger on 04.01. 2020 15:12
WOW EXPLOSION!!!! I put a little button battery out of a watch on the top of the wood shelf on the gas fire, the wood was only sort of aired not hot. I always did this with normal battery's to get another few hours out of them----tight git ;D. myself and the cat thought we had been shot as it exploded and separated *eek*, I found the top and bottom a few hours later , I will not be doing that trick again *bash*