The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Frame => Topic started by: davedental on 07.05. 2020 13:29

Title: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: davedental on 07.05. 2020 13:29
Hi everybody
Already learnt a huge amount on here and saved myself a lot of time and grief by being steered in the right direction, so thank you all!
I have recently purchased a 1958 A7 SS with a 1960 ss engine in dire need of restoration. Tackled the engine first which was supposed to run (hadn't been started for over 20 years) Completely stripped the engine and found all in surprisingly good order, just a few little glitches like a helicoil in the barrel came out with the bolt, both ends of the primary drive nuts loose and one thread gone in the sump plate. Worst part was finding another issue with a sump bolt, the casting was broken where somebody has used bolts instead of studs and nuts. Being welded as we speak. Long way to go yet, can't decide whether to powder coat the frame and wrestle with the swinging arm bushes or to stove enamel or 2 pack paint it, any thoughts? No doubt i will be writing again soon with more issues
Davedental
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Greybeard on 07.05. 2020 14:38
 *good3*
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: RDfella on 07.05. 2020 16:54
2 pack paint man myself.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Bsalloyd on 10.05. 2020 15:57
Powder coating is truly easy and great way to get it done. I have powder coated a couple of bikes but have never been satisfied with the results. The appearance is not as glossy as the 2 pack paints. The powder coating it much thicker and adds unwanted thickness especially on the engine and transmission adapter plates. The last A10 I restored required a lot of time to remove the coating in those areas. So, I vote for 2 pack paints for all future restores. Good luck on your adventure! Lloyd L
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: ianbsa on 26.06. 2020 17:14
Yes stay well clear of P/Cting, awful stuff. had my frame done a few years ago but it never seems to look black...more like a black grey if that makes sense....and plasticky which it is I suppose. Seen some very nice two pack finishes.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Greybeard on 26.06. 2020 17:37
I had my frame powder coated. It's OK. I once had a car hood frame powder coated and that was like a thick plastic coating, rather like the plastic handles on a pair of pliers. So, I think powder coating may mean different things to different shops.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: beezermacc on 26.06. 2020 19:25
Powder coating is usually much cheaper than other options. If you're happy with an 'OK' finish powder coating will do the job but make sure you take it to somebody who is used to doing motorcycle frames and has a good reputation. If you want a concourse finish you'll need to go the two-pack route or even stove enamel.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Jules on 27.06. 2020 01:35
2 pack is my choice too, although I have to say its not as chip resistant as I expected.....I had some engine brackets powder coated for a car resto and was disappointed with the poor adhesion at points where they had been bronze welded, obviously hadn't been properly cleaned out first....also my decision on 2 pack was based on the s/a bushes too, I didn't want to get into those.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Rex on 27.06. 2020 08:55
Rather like sprayers, there's powder coaters and then there's powder coaters.
Quality varies although generally the quality seems much better these days. If your bits get put through with a large lot of industrial brackets or garden furniture then it clearly wouldn't be as good as a bike/old car specialist.
I use a firm in Southampton called Trestan and I can't praise them highly enough. Beautiful deep gloss flawless black (or whatever) a quick turn-around and reasonable prices. They also do two-pack and stoving.
I wouldn't even contemplate going back to the days of endless paint removal, rubbing down etc.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: AdrianJ on 27.06. 2020 18:35
I’ve discovered that my local powder coater also stove enamel. They don’t advertise it because they say there is no demand and it is more expensive with most customers being happy with powder coating.
I wonder if most powder coasters can also stove enamel.
I got them to do my head and barrels - nice job.
Adrian
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: ianbsa on 28.06. 2020 10:10
2 pack is my choice too, although I have to say its not as chip resistant as I expected.....I had some engine brackets powder coated for a car resto and was disappointed with the poor adhesion at points where they had been bronze welded, obviously hadn't been properly cleaned out first....also my decision on 2 pack was based on the s/a bushes too, I didn't want to get into those.

Trouble is few people seem to understand prep these days. In days of old the guy would soak out any workings/welds with hot Trichoethelene (evil stuff), but it'll strip out even the most buried grease deposits.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Greybeard on 28.06. 2020 10:22
In days of old the guy would soak out any workings/welds with hot Trichoethelene (evil stuff), but it'll strip out even the most buried grease deposits.
In my yoof, I worked for a few weeks at a plating shop. I had to use the hot Trico tank to degrease tiny thingies. You climbed some steps at the side of the tank and lowered the baskets of widgets into the vapour. There was a solid-looking cloud of Trico vapour coming halfway up. The Trico condensed on the metal and started dripping off like rain. If you were not careful a swirl of vapour would come up and you got a whiff of the stuff. It smells like a dry-cleaning shop: Same stuff I imagine.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Jules on 28.06. 2020 12:30
amazing what we got away with back then wasn't it, I'm not sure I'd want to be working with those sorts of conditions now though - however, I do still have some Toluene in a 5 gallon drum leftover from "them days" which I still use (carefully) for cleaning parts, partic. carbs....
I do agree though Ian that that was the issue with the parts I had powder coated, the coating just crumbled off showing powdery corrosion underneath..
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: ianbsa on 28.06. 2020 13:21
Trouble is Jules its the undustrial nasties which give us the best results....Used a tin of cellulose spray recently?...rubbish as they've taken all the nasties out of it.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: ianbsa on 28.06. 2020 13:25
In days of old the guy would soak out any workings/welds with hot Trichoethelene (evil stuff), but it'll strip out even the most buried grease deposits.
In my yoof, I worked for a few weeks at a plating shop. I had to use the hot Trico tank to degrease tiny thingies. You climbed some steps at the side of the tank and lowered the baskets of widgets into the vapour. There was a solid-looking cloud of Trico vapour coming halfway up. The Trico condensed on the metal and started dripping off like rain. If you were not careful a swirl of vapour would come up and you got a whiff of the stuff. It smells like a dry-cleaning shop: Same stuff I imagine.

My old dad was a toolmaker, ha... he used to bring home gallons of the stuff....great smell. You daren't even try to get it now, ...I find a tin of gun wash in the workshop is nearly as good.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: JHG1958 on 28.06. 2020 22:08
Just had my frame powder coated at  DES in Furness Vale.  The coating is thick but not too brittle. The guy is a biker and very helpful.  He paints the frame mat black and then applies a gloss varnish.  He grit blasts the parts before painting and gets good adhesion

It cost me 400 quid for the frame and about a dozen bits and pieces. I had to burn out the swinging arm bushes and just fit the new ones today.

I painted my last A10 frame with hammerite. I thought it was a good job at the time but I was living in a remote area with little free cash. 

I remember Trike’. It was banned because it caused liver cancer.  Bloody good stuff if a little deadly

John
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 29.06. 2020 03:22
And for the 10,000th time.
Powder coating is a process not a product
Just the same as spray painting is a process not a product.

There are thousands of powder coating finishes just the same as there are thousands of different paints that can be sprayed.
So threads like this are meaningless unless the actual coatings are mentioned by name.

Some powders produce a finish very much like vitrious enamel ( think bath tubs ) while others are soft enough to be pushed around by your thumbnail .
Some bond so tight to the metal they can never be removed while others peel off if the coating is compromised.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: davedental on 14.01. 2021 12:41
Well, Iv'e come a long way with the A7 and decided after a long talk with the local powder coating people to give them a try. I was very pleased with the outcome! Glossy and sticks like sh*t to an army blanket!! ( Western powder coating in Wiveliscombe, Somerset) Excellent company.
Everything is back together but the last job is the green tin ware to do and final assembly. So what do you think is the best or quickest method of removing all the old paint. I want to go back to metal as there are too many unknowns (dings, dents and rust) to deal with. I have discovered a proper paint stripper with all the nasty chemicals in it so it works as it should. Any body have any issues with using that? Thanks for your previous replies, it's such a good site with loads of good knowledge
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: berger on 14.01. 2021 13:03
the only issue I have is where did you get the stuff complete with the nasties in it  that do a job they are made to do. so long as you don't have a glue sniffing habit you should be ok *whistle* *bash*
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: davedental on 14.01. 2021 13:13
Look online for a company called Starchem. Not cheap but the real thing and only comes in 5 litre size
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: berger on 14.01. 2021 13:30
with a name like that it must be good *beer*
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: RoyC on 14.01. 2021 13:59
I too have a 1958 A7ss.
I took all my parts to be painted to a local sandblaster, they were like new unpainted steel after.
Then took all the parts to a local paint shop.
I supplied the Polychromatic Light Green from RS bike paints.  http://www.cylex-uk.co.uk/reviews/viewcompanywebsite.aspx?firmaName=r+s+motorbike+paint+ltd.&companyId=16594124 

Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: berger on 14.01. 2021 15:37
davedental your paint stripper might have something left in it that nitromors has now removed. yes it is expensive but I bet it does the job well.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Greybeard on 14.01. 2021 15:44
Us amateurs cannot be trusted with strong chemicals.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: davedental on 14.01. 2021 20:14
That looks a beautiful paint job Roy.
My self appointed task was to rebuild my A7 entirely myself (cheated with the powder coating) . Rebuilt the wheels, engine, forks, painted all the black tinware (with rattle cans and then 2k lacquer) just the mudguards, oil tank and tool box to go. Going to use the correct paint and lacquer and have a decent devilbiss gun. That’s plan’A’!!
Not doing the tank yet as I have a 1960 tank with pear shaped badge. I might paint it anyway but with silver sides as I don’t want to pay for caroming on the wrong tank!
I can vouch for the strength of the stripper as it melted my rubber gloves!!
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: Rex on 14.01. 2021 21:27
with a name like that it must be good *beer*

Although it does sound like a Chinese laundry from a Carry On film..
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: scotty on 15.01. 2021 17:30
I have powder coating on A10 frame and painted coating on the B33 frame.
Happy with both results.
The powder coating was done by a company who white blasted the components before powder coating.

I painted the B frame myself using POR15 chassis paint.
Title: Re: Newbie with an A7 SS, powder coat the frame ?
Post by: lawnmowerman on 15.01. 2021 19:18
I painted my Sunbeam S7 frame with POR15 and very pleased with it. I had it sandblasted first and used the POR15 undercoat and used POR15 topcoat gloss black. I did the same for a Watsonian Monza chassis on a Matchless G12 but used chassis black. You do need to warm the paint first and warm the job as well or the brushmarks remain.

Jim