The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: Tumbleweed on 10.06. 2020 14:30

Title: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 10.06. 2020 14:30
Hi  ,  I have a 6v regulator  to fit on my a10 1959 ,   does it have to be 6v +  or will a 6v neg fit as well or does it matter anyway ?    Thanks
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: bsa-bill on 10.06. 2020 14:53
I think it matters with electronic ones not too sure about our mechanical versions, however it is not a difficult job to Flash the dynamo so it reverses polarity for the bike
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 10.06. 2020 20:45
Thanks Bill
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: beezermacc on 10.06. 2020 22:24
Not all electronic regulators are the same. Some -ve earth regulators require the dynamo wiring to be rearranged. I would advise to stick with +ve earth, make sure your dynamo is earthed and charging correctly and fit a +ve earth regulator. The old electro-mechanical ones like the MCR2 and RB107 are not polarity sensitive but the modern electronic regulators are supplied for either +ve or -ve earth and can't be interchanged.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 11.06. 2020 08:55
Good ifo    thanks
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 23.06. 2020 15:43
i cant get any life out of this reg , the dynamo shoes 15 v on a test but when i connect to the reg  nothing comes out of it     
   ,   i dont know if the reg is duff , perhaps some one can tell me  how to go on       Thanks  TW
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Greybeard on 23.06. 2020 16:15
I cannot recommend this highly enough:
https://www.dynamoregulators.com/dvr2.php

I have mine hidden inside the gutted case of a mechanical regulator.

FIT. FORGET!
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Rex on 23.06. 2020 18:43
Yep, seconded. Avoid the similarly-named VReg2 though.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: trevinoz on 23.06. 2020 22:39
TW, the first thing to do is measure the resistance between "D" & "F" on the regulator.
It should be close to 0. If it is considerably higher, clean the regulator contacts.
With dirty contacts the reading is usually the value of the resistor but a lot of regulators have had a hard life and the contact spot for the resistor has become corroded leading to anything up to infinity.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 24.06. 2020 11:00
Hi , Thanks for helping    i am not good at electrics but i set my multimeter to omms  200 on D & F  and it read 00.3 is that the reading i should have       TW
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 24.06. 2020 14:42
Hi , Thanks for helping    i am not good at electrics but i set my multimeter to omms  200 on D & F  and it read 00.3 is that the reading i should have       TW

What does it read when you touch the two multimeter probes together?
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 24.06. 2020 16:06
Hi ,  003  -  004   
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: trevinoz on 24.06. 2020 23:30
TW, that seems OK. Now test between "D" & "A" with the cut-out armature pressed in. You should get a similar reading.
I take it that you have tested for continuity on all of the wires on the reg.
With the engine running, connect the meter between "D" and earth on the 20V DC range.
If you get around the 7V mark, the regulator section is working.
Then test between "A" and earth with the battery disconnected. You should again get around 7V. If not, observe whether the cut-out armature is operating.
I have worked on plenty of these regulators and it is not uncommon for the shunt coils to become open circuit.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 25.06. 2020 06:47
Thanks , i will try that today .   
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 26.06. 2020 16:14
 Many thanks Trevinos ,  i followed your instructions and there is a good charge but nothing going into the battery and nothing shows  on the ammeter , only when i switch on the lights and it shows slight discharge.  with everything connected up and revving up and no movement  to the ammeter or the lights .  i did get a puff of smoke from the reg i switched off  quickly ,  i think the cut out points got hot ,  but they still work  .    it must be my wiring where the problem is (not to the reg)      but ive gone by the book and everything works lights etc .  TW
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Greybeard on 26.06. 2020 17:48
... nothing shows  on the ammeter , only when i switch on the lights and it shows slight discharge. 
That is correct behavior for a fully charged battery.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 27.06. 2020 07:49
Thanks Neil,  with the engine running revving the lights stay the same and the horn dont work     TW
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: beezermacc on 27.06. 2020 08:47
There's an article on this page you may find helpful.....
https://sites.google.com/site/priorymagnetos/tech-tips-1
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 27.06. 2020 10:08
Yes thats good info    thanks
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 05.08. 2020 16:01
Hi, i am still struggling with my reg   there is a  good charge from  my dynamo then it goes into the reg and there is nothing that comes out of blue and black earth does that mean the reg is  shot ,  i followed the test instructions and it seemed ok        Thanks tw
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Swarfcut on 05.08. 2020 17:45
   T W    You haven't said which model of regulator you have, but if it is the traditional LUCAS elcctro-mechanical type, Terminal A is where the power comes out. Depending on the battery voltage  and electrical demand at the other end of this wire ie the ammeter end, the trick box regulates the power output (regulator section). The unit also isolates the battery from the charging circuit when the engine is stopped (cut out section).

 BSA Service Sheet 804 gives a description of operation and test procedure.

 Most common fault is dirty connections and poor wiring. Bullet connectors suffer internal corrosion, copper wires oxidise, verdigris and dirt are other enemies. Check the basic wiring system is sound. Checking the regulator for electrical function is easy, but don't fiddle with the adjustment, getting that right is more difficult. The unit needs a good earth connection, try a wire from terminal E to the earthed terminal of the battery.

 Your earlier post said the lights stayed the same, so  this means there is no power from terminal A to the main loom. Horn is usually wired direct from the battery, so this may be a sign of a component failure or non standard wiring.

 Swarfy.

 Additional. The earlier posted link to Priory Magnetos gives a circuit diagram to test the regulator. As it stands this test will only confirm the operation of the cut out. In other words with everything connected as shown, the battery voltage should be the same as noted with the battery disconnected, confirming cut out operation and no electrical leakage through the system.

    Starting the engine should result in a rise in voltage from terminal A, which will raise the battery voltage as confirmation of some regulator output. As far as I can see this step is omitted. If all is in order, engine running increases meter voltage reading and causes the test bulb to brighten.

 Looks to be a final page missing detailing this step. Also there is no test procedure given for the dynamo armature, which would be a useful addition to the otherwise concise text.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 05.08. 2020 17:55
Thanks Swarfy ,  i think its a copy lucas ,  the chap i bought it off said it worked ok on his AJS i have no reason to disbelieve him , i will look into what you say  tw
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Black Sheep on 05.08. 2020 18:18
The new Wassell Lucas ones are no better than the cheap repro ones which don't have the best reputation. My bikes have solid state regulators having despaired of repro regulators. Why not go wild and invest in a DVR 2 or similar. 
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: muskrat on 05.08. 2020 21:17
+1 for the DVR2, and it hides in the old Lucas box.
Cheers
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: morris on 05.08. 2020 21:37
+1 for the DVR2, and it hides in the old Lucas box.
Cheers
Make that +2
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Angus on 05.08. 2020 21:54
Make that +3
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: berger on 05.08. 2020 22:20
+ me also
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: WozzA on 06.08. 2020 04:30
I've got 2...   so  +5 & +6   
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 07.08. 2020 12:35
Hi , thanks for your help  ,  i am trying to avoid buying a new reg , perhaps i might have the same prob after and the fault is elsewhere  .  i have tried D to earth engine running and nothing happens the points close   as well  , then A to earth and still nothing .  if i go A to the base where the points are in the reg i get 10 v  more if i rev up .      tw  *conf* .  Swarfy  you said in your post about the horn being wired to the battery , when i put on the headlights it shows discharge on the ampmeter ,  but if i turn off the headlight,   press the horn and apply rear brake light it dont show anything on the meter it dont even flinch    you mentioned wiring i put a new loom on the bike when i did it up everything works normally except charging ..
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Swarfcut on 07.08. 2020 17:12
TW  On a standard loom the horn and rear brake light are on their own little circuits. Get these two working to start with to prove the battery good and earth connections sound.

 Test the dynamo with the F and D terminals bridged, and a 12 volt headlamp bulb from the bridge to earth. This should glow brightly as the engine speed increases.

 Regulator wiring is simply D to D  F to F regulator to dynamo and E terminal on the regulator to a good earthing point on the frame. Terminal A is the controlled output, a test bulb from A to earth should shine brightly with engine running.  This is the same situation as running without a battery with the dynamo powering the lights. So a further test is that you get lights with no battery, engine running, indicating power is coming from the regulator.

 One ammeter terminal goes straight to the battery. The other one has Terminal A connection and the lead to the switch.  Typical wiring diagram is Service Sheet 808A, this is a simple circuit. Other later circuits eg sheet 808F offer more refinement at greater complexity.   Reverse the connections if the ammeter shows a charge with engine off, lights on.

 The ammeter only shows current flow to and from the battery. With no output from terminal A horn and brake light draw power from the battery. This circuit does not pass through the ammeter, so no reading. Lights draw battery power  through the ammeter. This shows a reading.
 With a fully charged battery and full electrical load the dynamo output should balance demand  at a reasonable road speed and the needle will hover around zero to +.

 Lights off, flat battery, should give a good indicated charge with engine running.

 Pay attention to the electrical connections on the regulator, the terminal sockets are notorious for being furred up and oxidised, they often need a good scrape out to ensure good electrical contact and conduction.

 Swarfy.

   
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: bikerjohndavies on 08.08. 2020 10:01
A few years ago I had a problem with a new repro Lucas regulator that would not charge after I fitted it. I checked the dynamo and that was fine so I took the cover off the reg box and ran the engine to check the points. All worked OK and it was charging, great I thought. Put cover back on and she stopped charging again. The problem was that 1 of the connections to the coils inside is very close to the side so when the case is fitted it shorts out. The fix I did was to line the inside of the case with insulation tape and all was fine. I have had another one with the same problem and I remember a number of others on the forum reporting the same.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Rex on 08.08. 2020 10:05
I've bought a couple of bikes which came with Taiwan copies of Lucas regulators, and I still can't believe that anyone would bother to make such a piece of poorly-made shite.
Best to gut them and fit a DVR2, though the case isn't even a good copy of the original.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: RDfella on 08.08. 2020 10:38
It may well be the regulator, but as tumble says, it'd be a shame to buy / fit a new one and find the problem still persists. I'd be tempted to take a couple of temporary wires straight from dynamo to reg, earth and battery. A clip-on ammeter (or spae ammeter) or multimeter on battery would save the hassle of going through the existing ammeter and would prove the point fairly quickly. Also, make sure dynamo is actually earthed to the frame, not insulated by paint.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 09.08. 2020 09:03
Thanks  folks , much appreciated .  tw
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Greybeard on 09.08. 2020 09:12
If you can afford it I suggest getting the DVR2. They are a fit and forget item. I have mine hidden inside an old reg case.
Title: Re: 6 v lucas regulator
Post by: Tumbleweed on 14.08. 2020 14:53
Hi everyone , in the box of old bits i got     when i first obtained my A10  (a basket case)  a few year ago now  there was a very battered looking solid   state reg with no connections on it it was a 12v anyway so i discarded it . the other day in desperation i  dug out this old reg  and connected it up as you all described and it works perfectly and charges well ,  i am very sorry for leading you all the wrong way please accept my  apologies , one good thing is  i have learned a lot about regs thanks to you all .   so all the time it was a duff reg a was sold i was trying to keep it near to original  . thanks again to all you good chaps   .  tw