The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: Greybeard on 13.07. 2020 11:16

Title: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 13.07. 2020 11:16
We have been running a Fiat Panda for the last 9 years. We bought it new in 2011 and paid just £8k for it. I thought that when I retired we would struggle financially so the Pandas economy made sense. The Panda has been extraordinarily good. It's given almost no trouble. At over 90k miles it has not needed a clutch or suspension or steering joints replacing. I had the cam belt done and the water pump at the same time, because it's easier to do with the belt covers off. The bodywork is still solid and the black paint gleams after an infrequent wash.

Anyway, time to move on. My son is having the Panda as a local runabout. We have cashed in savings and bought ourselves a nearly new BMW 1 Series M Sport. This thing is just full of smarts! Here are a few:
Lane control: at speeds over 40mph the car detects if you wander too close to white lines either side and steers itself away from them.
Speed limitting: A button and an adjuster wheel on the steering wheel allows the driver to set a maximum speed. Useful in an urban area.
Cruise control.
Visual warning and I guess physical intervention if the system thinks you are following too close to another vehicle. Also warnings and presumably intervention if an object crosses your path, such as a child running.
No parking brake lever. A lift up tag applies all four brakes. As you pull away the parking brake releases automatically.
Head-up display: Shows current speed limit, next turn if using Satnav, media choice if wanted, selected maximum speed limit or cruise control set speed. The HUD appears to be about halfway along the bonnet, (hood). It's not distracting. My nervous driving wife loves it.
Keyless entry. Keyless engine start, (fully depress the clutch then press a Start button).
Seat and mirror settings remembered for each of the 2 keys. As I walk toward the car, the seats, mirrors and radio station are adjusting to my selection. Likewise for wifey.
Automatic LED headlight activation and dipping when a vehicle is coming the other way.
Automatic windscreen wiper activation.
Self parking. I haven't tried this yet.
Suitable parking space detection in a row of parked cars.
Remote boot, (trunk) opening.

At night when you approach the vehicle the door handles project a courtesy light on the ground beside the car. Inside, while you are getting in, the trims have a subtle illumination and there are lights under the seats that shine into the footwells.
Of course the fuel consumption is monitored. I've never had a car that tells me how far I can go on the fuel in the tank.
Reversing camera and audio warnings. Front has a simple display of objects detected along with an audio warning.

The dash has real-time weather, news, local interest, email and messages. In the roof there's a button that will summon emergency services to the vehicle. In fact, in the event of a serious crash the car will call for you!

I have a BMW App on this tablet. From the app I can turn headlights on or off, lock or unlock the car, check tyre pressures. Check oil level. Ventilate the car, single shot, or scheduled daily. The App has the ability to track the car.

There's more but I'm sure you are bored by now!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: berger on 13.07. 2020 18:16
yeah but does it wipe ya backside *grins*, that's not a car it's a module *lol*.  I think the fiat is a better sounding option that you are driving/controlling , sounds like that beemer can control you until it's battery goes dead *whistle*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 13.07. 2020 19:42
My Land Rover has none of these things - not even an interior light. You need a torch after dark to find where to put the ignition key. Not much electrickery to go wrong!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: morris on 13.07. 2020 20:49
yeah but does it wipe ya backside *grins*, that's not a car it's a module *lol*
Yep, time will come when wiping your backside will be all you have to do yourself. All the rest will be done for you by some gizmo. Lots of people will like that. I won’t...  *sad2*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: muskrat on 13.07. 2020 20:51
G'day GB.
Now all you need is a chauffeur.
Cheers
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Colsbeeza on 13.07. 2020 22:16
Now you blokes leave GB alone!
(Next thing he will want an automatic retracting sidestand on his BSA!) *lol*
Hey now that's a thought.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: KiwiGF on 13.07. 2020 22:54
Its an msport......we just want to know how fast it goes  *dribble*

(Wife has a 2015 panda, twin cylinder 875cc turbo, does 110 mph)
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 13.07. 2020 23:04
Its an msport......we just want to know how fast it goes  *dribble*

(Wife has a 2015 panda, twin cylinder 875cc turbo, does 110 mph)
I'm very unlikely to find out what the top speed is. The official bumph says, 125 mph.

The, (petrol, 1500cc) engine has three cylinders * with a balance shaft. It has a turbo.

The Panda is 1200cc so not much difference in displacement but a world of difference in power!

* I swear, when I put my foot down this thing growls rather like the three cylinder BSA/Triumph engines.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: edboy on 13.07. 2020 23:18
lots more to go wrong. a driverless car has already killed a cyclist in usa but who is to blame? if driving home after six pints was legal i guess it would help not crashing
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Joolstacho on 14.07. 2020 00:53
Eeek that's all rather scary! All those things that can (will) go wrong.
I recently picked up a beautiful Saab 9-3, it's 20 years old but in great nick and way too cheap. Superb... but when you look at the electronics complexity it's a worry!
If I lost the keys it would cost me more than I paid for it to fix it!
The wreckers yards are going to be crammed full of superb overly-complex cars which have tiny, but too-expensive-to-fix problems.
Enjoy the beemer though!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: KiwiGF on 14.07. 2020 07:13
Eeek that's all rather scary! All those things that can (will) go wrong.
I recently picked up a beautiful Saab 9-3, it's 20 years old but in great nick and way too cheap. Superb... but when you look at the electronics complexity it's a worry!
If I lost the keys it would cost me more than I paid for it to fix it!
The wreckers yards are going to be crammed full of superb overly-complex cars which have tiny, but too-expensive-to-fix problems.
Enjoy the beemer though!


Yep, I think the electronics will cause the death of modern cars, even my 2000 beemer has an engine ecu that is uneconomic to replace should it go wrong (and they go wrong as they age) and no one will be making an aftermarket ecu to suit it. Its got many other electronic modules that are also ridiculously expensive to buy from BMW (ABS, immobilisor, door locks/windows etc).

Fitting a used engine ecu from a scrapped donor car CAN be done but is way beyond most diy mechanics as the immobilisor tech is designed in a way to PREVENT non BMW mechanics doing engine and ecu swaps, the underlying intent seemingly to make it not worth stealing a car and selling off the major parts.

Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 14.07. 2020 07:14
A lot of these innovations are in response to the number of older drivers on the road. A week or so ago in Edinburgh a 91 year old woman drove her car onto the pavement and crushed a 3 year old child to death. Had she been driving a new car with all the safety features, the child would have been ok.
So lane departure warnings, auto dipped headlights, auto braking are all safety features that the young might scoff at but they do save lives.
You can argue for a blanket ban on old (older than me) people driving but being able to drive is often the last freedom. If we can minimise the risk through technology that has to be a good thing.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Joolstacho on 14.07. 2020 07:34
Well mate... If you believe that ("A lot of these innovations are in response to the number of older drivers on the road.") - you believe there's fairies in the bottom of your garden.
It's purely a matter of marketing one-upmanship. All about making money out of dumbed down consumers.
So what happens to the little girl when the clever electronics fail in a few years time?
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Rex on 14.07. 2020 08:52
True that.
Years ago cars died through terminal rust but for the last decade or so it's down to failed electronics that see them in the crusher. The manufacturers are "forcing" the buyers to go down the route of "buy new, keep for five years and renew" whether they like it or not.
As an aside, I remember when electric windows were becoming commonplace and the sage old fellers would rub their imaginary beards and pronounce that they wouldn't like electric windows because "imagine the cost if they go wrong". They could never have imagined how far down that route we'd go in twenty years..
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2020 09:46
My 9 year old El Cheapo Fiat has electronics such as data-bus wiring, throttle control, engine management etc. If the Beemer lasts 9 years, (I believe it will) my wife and I will be 80. We may not be fit to drive by then. This car may be our last.

The first service on the BMW is at two years. A friend advised me to change the engine oil and filter ASAP. I agreed. The BMW agency would reluctantly do an early oil change before I collected the car but quoted £295!!!

I researched which generic oil to buy, (BMW branded oil must have gold dust in it! ) and filter and did the job myself for less than £50.
The car has no dipstick! The vehicle checks oil level while running.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 14.07. 2020 10:05
Joolstacho, you are living in the past. Car design for a long time has concentrated on the safety of the occupants - crush zones, inbuilt roll cages etc. Finally, there is some thought as to the safety of the people outside of the cars - and not before time. Drivers are fallable. Don't forget 50% are below average driving ability. So the technology is there to step in when they get it wrong. And it's not marketing. It's legislation.
Off to talk to my fairies.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2020 10:33
My Land Rover has none of these things - not even an interior light. You need a torch after dark to find where to put the ignition key. Not much electrickery to go wrong!
Been there, got the tee-shirt.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: BSARGS650 on 14.07. 2020 11:35
Mmmm...I don't think British Leyland can ever be beat as a bench mark when it comes to green environment issues.  Yes, they were making bio-degradable cars long before the Green Party or Greta Thunberg ever existed,  Not only that, but, they were the first to make wheel removal easy and automatic without a jack and wheel nut spanner, unfortunately, the wheel could only be removed whilst the car is running - the Austin Allegro will be fondly remembered.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: RDfella on 14.07. 2020 12:01
Too much electriccery on modern cars to go wrong. And it does. I want to drive a car, not have it driven by some computer programmed by a tree-hugging boffin in a lab. Automatic headlights, wipers etc? Don't want the car. As for cars trying to decide for me whether I should brake or where I should be lane-wise - that's about as safe as a drunk driver. I've noticed visibility in modern cars is severely restricted too, as pillars get bigger and (clear) glass area smaller. So we now pull out HOPING the road is clear, because we can't actually see it. Ain't progress wonderful? Which is why I buy older cars, give them a major service then dump them when something expensive is needed.  Present daily driver is a tidy 15yr old lowish mileage Focus I bought for £600.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: cyclobutch on 14.07. 2020 12:23
Don't forget 50% are below average driving ability.

I reckon I could drive drunk better than most folks out there these days, and I don't even rate myself as a driver.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: KiwiGF on 14.07. 2020 12:43
My Land Rover has none of these things - not even an interior light. You need a torch after dark to find where to put the ignition key. Not much electrickery to go wrong!

My “96 Land Rover Discovery’s worst attribute is it’s wiring and electrics, the harness is massive even tho its filled with small diameter wires (that break) to keep it manageable. I love the car (its great on the back roads of NZ) but in my opinion Land Rover completely over estimated their ability on this car to make reliable electrics  *problem* .

Thankfully its a diesel so the engine generally keeps going even when mayhem is occurring with the electrics  *smile*

What sort of car designer would put a crash sensor just above the front passengers feet, where it could be accidentally kicked by a wife wearing wellies? (Thus causing the hazards to come on and the engine to cut, and me to wonder WTF this time).
Title: Re: New car
Post by: berger on 14.07. 2020 12:44
wow greybeard you were lucky with the DIY oil change, 15 years ago I changed the oil on a Toyota mini bus thing and took it for an mot with the engine management light glaring at me. the light was on because I drained the sump and the management thing had to be reset. it was that clever it knew there was no oil but not clever enough to know there was new oil. he reset things for nothing but these gizmos are there so you have to take it to your dealer. another trip up I had was taking the battery of a 90's rover and couldn't stop the alarm until I took the log book to the dealer for a code. I had to enter this by using the door key and turning it back and forth so many times I also think there is proof these gadgets have a shelf life engineered into them just like some mobile phones that packed up after 5 years, just as the upgrade was on the market. 
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2020 12:58
Mmmm...I don't think British Leyland can ever be beat as a bench mark when it comes to green environment issues.  Yes, they were making bio-degradable cars long before the Green Party or Greta Thunberg ever existed, 

Our Series 2 Land Rover had a really pretty growth of moss on the inside of the window frames.
Quote

Not only that, but, they were the first to make wheel removal easy and automatic without a jack and wheel nut spanner, unfortunately, the wheel could only be removed whilst the car is running - the Austin Allegro will be fondly remembered.
The 1960's Ford Cortina and co. relied on friction between the bearing inner and the half-shaft to keep the half-shaft in the axle. If/when the wheel bearing seized and got hot, vehicles could be seen with the wheel on the end of 2 feet of protruding half-shaft! Very comical to see.

Back then rust was the enemy. Now, maybe it's data processors.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2020 13:07
Yep, I think the electronics will cause the death of modern cars, even my 2000 beemer has an engine ecu that is uneconomic to replace should it go wrong
But the car is 20 years old. I think you've cheated the consumer culture quite well so far.  *smile*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 14.07. 2020 13:09
Let's celebrate the fact that car management systems don't use a  Windows OS.  :!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Rex on 14.07. 2020 13:10
Sadly people always seem to remember incidents where the car was unreliable or failed in some way. I drove those cars when I was younger because that's what we did; there was no spare money for HP on a new car, so old A40s, Anglias, Cortinas Minis and the rest were the every-day transport.
Despite all the latter-day horror stories which surface on the Net the only real problems was rust and the yearly MoT. Outside of that they just kept chugging on until they failed, then it was scan the local paper classifieds time and spend another fifty quid on a replacement.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 14.07. 2020 15:34
What we are ignoring is the accident stats. Deaths per 1000 kms are way down on what they were. Cars that will automatically brake before rear ending me have got to be a good thing. Look at the motorway pile ups - so many drivers not paying the slightest attention driving straight into the back of stationary traffic.
What worries me a bit is people who think thay are so superior that they can never benefit from these aids. Ain't no-one infallable. Not even the Pope. ;)
Title: Re: New car
Post by: muskrat on 14.07. 2020 21:33
G'day GB
[/quote]
The 1960's Ford Cortina and co. relied on friction between the bearing inner and the half-shaft to keep the half-shaft in the axle. If/when the wheel bearing seized and got hot, vehicles could be seen with the wheel on the end of 2 feet of protruding half-shaft! Very comical to see.[/quote]
I had a couple of those (a 4 door and a 2 door). The trick was to replace the bearings as son as you heard them. People hard of hearing or younguns with loud stereo's suffered that fate.
Cheers
Title: Re: New car
Post by: bsa-bill on 15.07. 2020 13:44
Quote
Ain't no-one infallible. Not even the Pope.

Thinking of the Popemobil  guided by satnav or divine intervention ?

I'm quite happy with most of the modern stuff, having had a good schooling before retirement in the use of satnav guided tractors, the savings in seed, fertilizer and time is more than significant plus the satisfaction of accurate, straight, efficient work .
I'll admit the auto stop start feature of my Fiesta took some getting used to (it can be switched off tho) but in stop start traffic it's brilliant and contibutes to the 50+ mpg (appeals to my Scots half)
 
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Rex on 15.07. 2020 15:51
I always turn my stop start off. It offends my engineering sensibilities when extra unnecessary wear is put on the starter motor and ring gear. I'll happily more for fuel mileage if it puts off the inevitable garage bill for a new starter etc.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: berger on 15.07. 2020 17:50
with you on that rex , it makes me cringe when I walk down the road next to a line of cars stuck at many sets of traffic lights etc and hear all these cars stopping and starting every 25 yards *pull hair out*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 15.07. 2020 19:30
Funnily enough my Velocette was somewhat prone to stop/reluctant to start in traffic. Pretty much cured now though.  *smiley4*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: muskrat on 15.07. 2020 21:55
G'day Fellas.
The hire car at the IOM in '15 had that auto stop start. It drove me mad! Don't like it for the same reason as Rex. The loan car I had for a week a few months ago had all that lane position, blind spot, auto brake, collision warning stuff  *pull hair out*. Took me 50 miles to work out how to turn the radio on! Glad to give it back and drive my 02 Ford. Even it is too modern for me with fuel injection and ECU.
Been driving trucks on and off for 40 years, tri axle twin steers with 15 gears. The most I want in a car is an auto box.
Now I know why new drivers can't drive.
Cheers
Title: Re: New car
Post by: RDfella on 15.07. 2020 22:15
Passed my test in '64 in HGV. No PAS, crash gearbox, no indicators, no heater, wipers were pneumatic so stopped when going uphill. For reversing, we'd stand left foot on the running board facing backwards, right foot on the throttle and steer with our right hand. Don't see that done anymore! Today, trucks are like cars, with sprung cabs etc. Dunno if I could drive one of the new ones.
Today drivers are cosseted far too much.  Sure, in a car I like electric windows, a heater and rear screen heater, indicators, PAS and power assisted brakes. And yes, EFI gives better economy, but apart from that, I don't really need - or want - the gadgets. In fact I wouldn't buy a car with all the rubbish many have. And yet useful things like quarter lights are not available on moderns.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: KiwiGF on 15.07. 2020 22:28
Yep, I think the electronics will cause the death of modern cars, even my 2000 beemer has an engine ecu that is uneconomic to replace should it go wrong
But the car is 20 years old. I think you've cheated the consumer culture quite well so far.  *smile*

Sort of, its a 2.8 Z3 so not a daily driver! (If I keep it long enough it might become a classic, stranger things have happened, but if (big if) cars like this are the classics of the future then I wonder what the solution to “dying” electronics will be?)

Come to think of it the same issue affects “modern” bikes, some bikes have had ECU’s since the 90’s.......
Title: Re: New car
Post by: olev on 24.07. 2020 13:47
Got a bit jealous reading about the whizbang goodies on Greybeard's new car.
so.. Today I fitted a front parking sensor on the farm suzi.
cheers

sorry, can't work out how to turn the pics around

wierd, they are ok if you click on them
Title: Re: New car
Post by: muskrat on 24.07. 2020 21:20
G'day olev.
I see you use the same principle as me. Forward till it hits then back up a few inches! The nudge bar on my Ford is very well used.
Cheers
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 11.09. 2020 18:59
I found a quiet car park the other day and tested the BMW parking assistance feature. You press a button on the centre console to start the parking assistance. It uses the normal distance sensors around the vehicle to identify a suitable gap. When a gap is passed, the car prompts me to stop, put the car in reverse then let go of the steering wheel and slowly reverse. I'm in control of the movement but the steering is automatic! If the car gets too close to the next vehicle, the beepers start sounding. Stop, put the car in first and move forward, the steering wheel whizzes around to correct the alignment. Reverse again, the car gets itself central between the other vehicles. This takes some getting used to!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: berger on 11.09. 2020 19:11
very good GB, I have seen hundreds of people behind a car steering wheel that this feature is a must for, and my thoughts are HOW did they pass a test in the first place. I know a person who goes on a route that takes them 3 miles out of their way just to avoid one roundabout ---- NEVER RATE. shouldn't be on the road , rant over *rant*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 11.09. 2020 22:51
How many times have we said, the driving test must be too easy!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 12.09. 2020 06:59
Funnily enough I was on the B31 gradually moving up a slow-moving convoy as overtaking opportunities appeared (overtaking on a B31!) and when I got to the blocker at the front saw it was an old guy grimly driving a grey Honda CRV at 25 mph.
Now, should he be on the road? At 25 mph he would cause frustration BUT was he actually a danger? Being able to drive is a lifeline for lots of old folks so perhaps we shouldn't be too harsh. Then the old bugger pushed it up to 50 as I was going past him. *pull hair out*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 12.09. 2020 09:34
Then the old bugger pushed it up to 50 as I was going past him. *pull hair out*
Sounds like he was one of those a miserable old gits who like to hold up a long queue and then try to stop anyone overtaking.
A front mounted Lewis gun would be useful.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: berger on 12.09. 2020 10:46
I forgot to mention in the earlier post that the roundabout is controlled by traffic lights *pull hair out* some people should just give up *bash*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: RDfella on 12.09. 2020 10:54
Depends a lot if you're familiar with the road. Remember once coming down from Ely and pulled ito a fuel station located at a 4 (or was it 3?)  lane roundabout. When leaving and with traffic whizzing around the roundabout at about 50 I ended up in the wrong lane and had to go about 30 miles up the motorway just to come back down again. And I hate those figure 8 roundabouts. Quite popular in France.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 12.09. 2020 11:37
On the A5 there's a services that exits straight onto a very busy roundabout. It's a Flippin nightmare to get out!
Title: Re: New car
Post by: bsa-bill on 12.09. 2020 11:55
I think some of you would be happy if you could buy a new car that had a starting handle  *whistle* *whistle* *whistle*

only jesting
Title: Re: New car
Post by: berger on 12.09. 2020 12:01
bill nowt wrong with a starting handle, it would be an advantage on some of these modern things that sap juice while they are stood waiting for the wind to blow and set the alarm off *pull hair out*
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Greybeard on 12.09. 2020 21:32
I remember that scene in Ice Cold in Alex when they use the starting handle to crawl the truck up a massive sand dune.

That reminded me. When we moved house about 30 years ago, I had my Austin Seven. I was not in a position to start the Austin engine. I used the starting handle idea to run the car up scaffold planks into a van.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: Black Sheep on 12.09. 2020 21:54
Official Land Rover advice if stuck in mud was to select reverse 4wd, remove spark plugs and use starting handle to back out.
Title: Re: New car
Post by: bsa-bill on 13.09. 2020 11:02
Quote
remove spark plugs

 have you seen where they bury the plugs in cars these days
Title: Re: New car
Post by: cyclobutch on 14.09. 2020 08:51
I remember that scene in Ice Cold in Alex when they use the starting handle to crawl the truck up a massive sand dune.

Twice.