The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Introductions, Stories, Meetings & Pictures => Topic started by: Superflash on 10.08. 2020 23:16
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Well after 12 months of collecting parts and some semblance of knowing what I’m doing, it’s time to start getting into it.
So far, I’ve had the cylinders bored to 0.060 over with new JP piston set. I have, on advice received on the forum here, discarded the JP rings and replaced them with Hamilton’s.
Next up, got the cases, crank and cam back from the machinist’s who’ve done a pretty good job of line-boring all the new bushes. So, big shout out to Wynnum Engine Reconditioner’s here in Brisbane. While they were at it, the crank was ground to 0.20” under, so still a bit of life left in it yet.
The head has had a bit of a tickle up with new valves, guides, springs and hardware. All lapped in and ready to go. This time I even managed to get the right valves in the right holes….didn’t know about the magnetic inlet valve thing…so again, much knowledge learnt via the forum here. Amazingly, the rocker box and all the internals were in pretty good nick, so just a cleanup required.
Today I set the end float on the crank. The method used might be a bit primitive, but I’m hoping the result is more or less in line with what you’d expect using a dial gauge etc. All I did was hose clamp a small angle onto the cush spline. Through the angle is a bolt and 2 nuts. Push crank all the way over to the timing side. Offer up the bolt to touch the inside of the primary case and lock it. Then push the crank back over to the drive side and measure the gap between primary case and bolt with feeler gauge. The gap I got was 0.00787”. So by my reckoning, a 0.005” shim ought to get me into the zone…..yes?
While I was busy congratulating myself, I had a thought about a fairly long thread here discussing the joys of balancing cranks, rods and pistons etc. So out of mild interest, I chucked the rods onto the wife’s kitchen scales, and discovered that the RH rod is 7g heavier than the LH one. Given I won’t be racing the old girl, or even going for long meandering rides through the outback, is this difference likely to be a major drama further down the line?
I guess depending on opinions, thoughts, and warnings received, I’ll hold off attaching the rods to the crank.
One other thing that has been bugging me….what’s the best cement or similar to seal in the oil pick up pipe that goes to the sump?
Will post pictures once I sort my stupid camera out…
Cheers,
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It would be a much nicer engine with dynamic balancing but it is your choice.
On the rod weight, if you are going to correct the difference, you have to determine which end is heavy.
Suspend the rod and weigh each end and you should get a result.
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Gidday Trevor. I guess you're right. Just spoke to a bloke who does all this type of thing. So will drop the crank rods and piston set off to him to sort the whole lot out. He reckons about a week to do. Cheers
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One other thing that has been bugging me….what’s the best cement or similar to seal in the oil pick up pipe that goes to the sump?
Will post pictures once I sort my stupid camera out…
Cheers,
I used a “permanant” (bearing retainer) grade of loctite, this softens with heat if it ever has to removed again.
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SF Just before you set off to the balancers......Has that crank sludge trap been cleaned out???
Select the new components you are going to use and take them along with everything that moves...from the cush nut split pin to the oil scroll locknut. Some balancers are more fastidious, and an annoying double journey may be saved for the sake of completeness. The guy can always decline some parts, but hold up the job if something he wants is missing.
The balance factor you choose is a compromise anyway, and the sweet spot can be chosen for the engine speed of your style of riding. Lots on the forum of how its done, and real world experience of balance factors that work best.
Cheers
Swarfy.
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G'day Tony.
If shes just going to be a odd weekend short/slow road ride I wouldn't bother. But the better it is the longer it lasts.
60% is the magic #, for road (54%) and race (65%) gives a good ride all day at 60-70mph.
JB Weld for the pipe. Used it in a crankcase crack years ago, still holding.
Cheers
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Thanks for the advice. Funnily enough the guy did say to bring everything that bolts on or hangs off the crank. He was most interested in the balance factor and from what I remembered from reading a couple of threads on here, I told him that 58% seemed to be the favorite number for day to day riding. Then he wanted to know how much I weighed.....! Apparently that can have an effect on how he'll set it up as well. So having thought about Trevs comment I decided that given what I've spent so far I might as well do the job properly. Cheers
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Oh, by the way. Yep have done the sludge trap and put new bungs in. *smile*
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Well just got the crank and bits and pieces back from the engine balancers. $270 which I think isn't too bad. He managed to get a BF of 58%. So am pretty happy with that. So maybe now I can start actually building this beast. Watch this space. Cheers
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Well that sucks...... just went to put the rods on and it looks like the numpty that sold me the big end bearings gave me LJ ones instead of SJ. So..put it all away again and drink beer instead. Be nice if half of these idiots who sell parts knew just what it was they were selling.... *pull hair out* *pull hair out* because frankly I don't know what I'm getting unless the part number is clearly marked.
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SF. Maybe a bit of help here. Aftermarket big end bearing sets are often listed with a cross reference based on the old "Glacier Bearings" * catalogue. Small journal crank shells were listed by Glacier as B2024LC, followed by the undersize. If you can find your new bearings cross referenced to this, that's what you need. Plenty of these oldies on eBay so worth a look for genuine old stock rather than some modern knock off.
The reference gives a clue to the application.
B... denotes big end bearings.
2 ...denotes the number of pairs of shells in the set
024 the stock line reference number
LC The bearing description, in this example LC is Steel Shells, copper-lead lined with lead-tin overlay.
Swarfy.
*Glacier were a well respected UK manufacturer of shell and bush bearings for the aftermarket..All went haywire with the compensation payouts made by its parent company for industrial injury claims, namely asbestosis in a big way.
Treat those NOS composite head gaskets with respect!
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Tony,
who did your crank balance?
cheers
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Chilton Engineering at Woolloogaba. He normally does V8 Supercar stuff apparently but took my job on as an interesting exercise. Just thinking....how did he manage to balance it all up if the big ends didn't fit.... *conf2*
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Photo of the work done on the crank. Rods have had a bit of a polish up too.
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Just thinking....how did he manage to balance it all up if the big ends didn't fit.... *conf2*
I assume he must have weighed the rods and bearings and took the weight up in the calculation?
Someone who knows may confirm or deny this or explain how a crank is balanced? I would like to know too.
I don’t see how you could run a crank on a balancing machine with the rods on. They would swing al over the place and the reading would be incorrect.
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Just thinking....how did he manage to balance it all up if the big ends didn't fit.... *conf2*
I assume he must have weighed the rods and bearings and took the weight up in the calculation?
Someone who knows may confirm or deny this or explain how a crank is balanced? I would like to know too.
I don’t see how you could run a crank on a balancing machine with the rods on. They would swing al over the place and the reading would be incorrect.
Here you go (static balance only)
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=6086.msg41598#msg41598
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Yup. Shows you how much I know. Oh well, as long as the half wits like me keep you all amused it may help keep this amazing forum on point. Cheers
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1 nice new 376 carby all set up as per recommendations. Hopefully be one less thing I have to worry about when it comes time to give her a kick in the guts *smile*
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you made a good decision there, I have been playing with two old abused amals on and off for years. then a mikuni sold as jetted for my bike that was ok once I got the bike started but was a pain hot or cold. the new carb has got the bike back to a first kicker no matter what. yesterday the girlfriend noticed the bark and crack of the exhaust note. BUT the best bit was when we got in the house and she said " betsy was so well behaved I didn't have to move my leg for you to start her again at junctions and traffic lights she just kept going BA DUM BA DUM BA DUM, music to any BSA owners ears *grins*
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41 years ago i found out when stripping the engine that the the crank had snapped , after collecting another engine i took that one to pieces and started on the present day café racer bike build, i found a couple of pics from 1980 when i started putting things together again. of course i haven't yet started using the modern phone so these were taken on the foggy phone
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Update. Bottom end together and looking good. Pistons on. Barrels on. Head on and doing up the bolts. Got to number 9 and promptly stripped the thread. So....Head off barrels off and back to Mr. Fleabay to purchase a helicoil kit and drill press. Do remind me why I didn't buy an Xbox.. someone?
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Tony,
Just for grins, maybe try sending a PM to our member Dutch, who is also in Brisbane. He may be able to help, either with the coils and press or, at least, with some good advice.
Dutch, if you're reading this and I am volunteering you against your will, I owe you a beer or four. (Tony, I'm sure it's going to be OK.)
Richard L.
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... our member Dutch, who is also in Brisbane...
Is that a fact, (or fake news) ?
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... our member Dutch, who is also in Brisbane...
Is that a fact, (or fake news) ?
Dutch's profile says his location is "BrisVegas," which I take to mean Brisbane.
Richard L.
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G'day Tony.
Finding a shop to do a 3/8" BSF helicoil might be hard.The job itself is easy enough.
Haven't heard of duTch since January. I know he goes to BJ's Bikes and Bits, they may be able to help.
Cheers
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G'day Tony.
Finding a shop to do a 3/8" BSF helicoil might be hard.The job itself is easy enough.
Haven't heard of duTch since January. I know he goes to BJ's Bikes and Bits, they may be able to help.
Cheers
Yeah, I think I confused word that he lives with him actually posting here, which he hasn't since 12/19.
(BTW, I also read his last posts just to be sure it wasn't me that set him off *eek*. Maybe he'll return by saying. "I definitely was you, you dumb sot!")
Richard
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Depends on which hole it is. There may be sufficient depth of casting below to drill down and tap the original thread, and a custom bolt. UNF or a more modern ******ing Metric fine would be an easier choice, again with a custom stud or an ex car cylinder head bolt to suit. Sacriledge I know, but it would be your li'l o'l secret.
Good to know the worst is over (el cranko etc)
Cheers.
Swarfy.
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It's head bolt no.9. So at the back of the head on the timing side. Managed to pick up a BSF 3/8 x 20 helicoil kit that comes with the correct drill bit and whatnot. To be fair it was a good excuse to get a decent drill press. Now.....what else can I destroy to justify a lathe *smile*
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Per Swarfy's sacrilege point, on that very hole I have used a 7/16 UNF stud (originally from a Jaguar cyl head set), turned down to let the head pass without fouling, and threaded 3/8 BSF at the top for a suitable deep nut. It's done loadsamiles and no problem . Also, under the rocker cover, so hidden as well. Not a rolled thread obviously, but if a decent 3/8 high tensile die-cut thread can't take and hold 33-odd ft lbs we might as well all go and kill ourselves . . . !
I committed the sacrilege because I felt I'd get a better result than with a thread insert, and also because I prefer studs and nuts to bolts and setscrews on principle (even into cast iron). If there was the space for it all to go together with the engine in the frame I'd replace the lot with similar frankly.
Just another little nudge towards that lathe SuperF!
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I have heli-coiled many barrels successfully.
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Given that Superflash has bought the kit and the drill press, and he is not building a drag bike, and considering Trev's comment (and with no intent to contradict ideas from people more competent than myself), seems like a helicoil for this one hole is written in the stars.
Richard L.
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Gentlemen, for your perusal and comment, 1 x finished SF motor.... Have loosely bolted on the dyno and headers just to get them out of the way. Now to start on the frame. Lugs etc for the tool box and battery tray etc. As you may have guessed, the heli-coil worked a treat. Managed to get 33 ft/lbs on the head bolts without anything going "ping"..
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Here's another one...
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Yep that is looking nice mate, which reminds me, I have one of these bikes also, that I have to get on to.
Looking good so far Superflash.
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Just about done so maybe time for some constructive criticism before we get too carried away. Things left to do include fabricating mounts for the SA exhausts, paint and wiring. Hopefully the clocks and cables aren't too far away....
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My thunks, for what they are worth:
As these machines are rare I would prefer a restoration rather than a custom build. *shh*
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GB It's each to his own, better a machine is brought back to use as a custom build than scrapped. But yes when machines are plentiful the odd butchered example passes unnoticed. For those seeking original examples the increasing rarity of unmolested original parts adds to their value, but only up to a point where common sense kicks in to say the cash is better spent on something else entirely. A concept lost to many latter day ebay sellers, who consider just because it is rare, it's valuable, which is not always the case.
As a build that gets my vote, it retains the essence of the design, with some clever more modern design cues.
SF. Don't forget those all important engine steady stays. The part book lists two to the rear, 67-974/975. Can't tell if the original set up included the usual ones from cylinder head to front downtube as well. These must be true Unicorn Parts. Heard of but never seen. No doubt something will have to be fabricated.
Swarfy.
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to have to fabricate the front head steadies out of some stainless tube. As Swarfy says they are some what a bit of a rarity.
Perhaps some further background is in order here. To say "restore" and/or "butcher" would be to imply there was something there in the first place.
What I started with was 2 plastic milk crates 3/4 filled with some random engine parts bought off fleabay. Probably said a lot when the seller described it as an A7 Plunger Superflash motor.....but at this point, what did I know. *dunno*
Anyhow, on receipt of said motor a minimum of research revealed I had a few A10 parts that were both plunger type, and a couple of S/A bits just to confuse things. Half of what I had went in the bin as being obviously knackered. That left me with 2 unmatched cases, a decent crank on original grind, a set of barrels 0.40 thou over, a head with no valve gear, a couple of timing gears, and a rocker box complete but full of dirt and a large dead spider... (where's that stick?). The only reason the whole lot didn't get chucked in the bin at this point was the fact that this whole SF thing was somewhat intriguing and warranted some further investigation.
Further research revealed that if I wanted to restore this back to original SF, I would need a sizable mortgage, and years of my limited time left on the planet to find all the original parts. So that put paid to that option. Given the original idea had been to build myself a Triumph or Harley chopper, the decision was made to continue down that path, but using this oddball BSA motor instead. As it turned out, the further I progressed the less I thought a full on chopper frame would do this thing justice. So things veered off on another coarse. That being to keep it reasonably period at least, but with a custom twist.
The motor at least has been built to SF spec's - with the notable exceptions being the carb and duplex primary/clutch set-ups. The rest is standard A10 GF most of which are either NOS or decent second hand, and while still expensive, are at least obtainable.
The intention here has never been about the money, or making a buck by selling it to some poor unsuspecting mug. What it has done though is given me hours upon hours of satisfaction, frustration, despair and enjoyment. Much has been learnt through trial and error. And as things have progressed I have also developed a fondness for a bike marque that in the past has never interested me in the least. And for much of that knowledge and enthusiasm the thanks need to go to your good selves.
Cheers
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Nice one Superflash. The beast looks the DB's to me. A slightly bigger tank if mine. Each to there own and long may that be.
*yeah* *beer* *good3* *dribble*
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Hi Superflash, I have way too many questions after seeing your bike.
After hearing your comments about finding the “correct..everything”, I for one do hear you well and clear.
As you know I’m in the process of building the same, however I do have quite a bit of past knowledge on the A10’s. So sourcing parts/information/etc, has been challenging throughout, for my few restorations.
I like that you had a plan and went with it, to me that’s what I want to see.
Also you have a plunger bike as your first A10, my SF is also my first ‘plunger’ model and what a challenging piece of ar$e they are, give me a Swinging Arm any day, I may change my tune one day but not today mate.
I’m interested in the rear end and how you designed the stays, also the front guard needs a front stay.
My only criticism is the tool box could be the smaller one to go with the “minimalistic”
design I guess, up to you and you can still find em.
Nice work mate and great effort so far, I also know that there is still so much “fettling” for you to do, so I hope you enjoy this one, building and then tuning and then riding.
Cheers Thomas
Hope to meet up one day
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G'day Superflash.
Great to see your progress *yeah*
You'll love your plunger. Mine is my favourite bike.
We have another member in Brisvagus with a plunger, although he hasn't been seen for quite a while. duTch has been known to visit BJ'S (blue & red A10), you might be able to track him down.
Keep at it and post your progress.
Cheers
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Again, thanks for the comments and observations. Will try and address a few of them in no particular order...
I have 3 petrol tanks that I tried out for fit and looks. A supposedly A10 Plunger tank, a 3 gallon King Sporty tank, and the one I've gone with. To be fairly frank, the supposed A10 Plunger tank looked way too big and the thought Massey Ferguson sprung to mind. The King Sporty tank also looked too big and looked more like a giant turd sitting on the motor. I chose the smallest of the 3 simply because of the slimmed down look, and it allowed the entire motor to shine through in all it's glory.
The tool box probably does look a bit big compared to the rest of it, however at this stage I'll stick with it. Perhaps down the line I could maybe look at a Bantam one that appears to be a bit smaller...?
I purchased what was advertised as a RGS chrome mudguard set complete with stays from India. Basically cause the price was right.. :! I've attached another photo of the bike from another angle and you'll see what I've done with regards to the rear stays. Have also run a stiffening flat bar under the mudguard that is anchored from a fabricated mount under the regulator that I put under the seat. I was going to make something from scratch, but I was sitting there one day with beer and ciggie in hand staring at the pile of bits, and I had a bit of a light bulb moment... as you do. Turn the main stay upside down, drill hole at rear of guard, grind off lug and tidy up, and presto. Have got the front stays kicking around somewhere, and will go on once found. Cheers
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Not a fan of choppers / bobbers myself, but that looks good. Right proportions, though I'd want a slightly larger fuel tank - and loud metalflake on the tanks and toolbox.
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SF, that looks perfect, well thought out aesthetically. Thinking I might try some higher bars on my plunger A10. What's the tank from? Looks like a HD Sportster or similar, great fit.
Jase
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Congratulations, it realy is very pleasing to the eye .Tasty ,understated and just right.
Wishing you a lot of fun with it!
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I dig it *wink2*
Looks great
S
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Ok then... after a couple of observations, I've revisited the King Sportster tank option. To be fair, after giving it a good coat of looking at for 10 minutes or so, you're probably right.
It does look a bit better with the bigger tank, and it also seems to put the toolbox back into proportion.
As for colour, the tanks, toolbox and chain guard will be painted Port Candy. A deep red with subtle silver flake.
Cheers
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Given what you started with SF, I've got to hand it to you!. *wink2* *dribble*
Col
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Well it runs. 3rd kick did the business... Pity the gearbox locked up solid again. I'm thinking I just might have to suck it up and drop the motor and completely strip the box.
In the meantime have been playing with my new toy *smile*
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Is it just me, or is the A10 just a much cooler looking bike than the Triumph? *beer* *smile*
Richard L.
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SF. What a shame the gearbox is giving trouble at this late stage. As for fixing it, the box can be stripped almost entirely without removal from the frame. The final drive sleeve gear, bearing, seal and sprocket together with the camplate pivot are the only parts that can't be accessed. Takes a bit of gynecological skill, but is a whole lot easier than pulling the lump from the frame. Most difficult part will be removing the selector rod grubscrew. Remove this first, and replace last. This will avoid unintentional damage to the casing if you happen to push hard on the selector rod. Moving the shaft with the grubscrew in place cracks a chunk off the main casting.
If the box is stiff to turn when in neutral or the intermediate gears a possible cause is a partial seizure between the mainshaft and the output drive sleeve. In top gear the box will turn turn as normal as these two parts are locked together when top is selected.
When refilling the gearbox, leave plenty of time for the inner case to take the oil. The inner cover has only a small hole to connect the two chambers, you think the whole box is full to the level plug. Sure it is, in the outer chamber..... but the main case may be almost empty. That's why they wear out.
Swarfy.
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Regarding the head steady brackets. When I installed the correct 10TT9 carb they fit great. When I changed to a concentric, I wanted to ride it, they no longer would fit. But, it ran great!!