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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: Angus on 11.01. 2021 14:30

Title: Winter starting
Post by: Angus on 11.01. 2021 14:30
Ok I Tinker with my bikes and I am beginning to wonder if I am even capable of that, but I have a question for the more knowledgeable. All four of my bikes start first or second kick all summer long when in regular use. But in winter when started every couple of weeks that are right bastards. The A7 fired into life after some 20 kicks and I was so knackered I could not start the Norton so went for a cupper and tried again. I lost count of the number of kicks before see eventually started. So the question is why is this ?
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: berger on 11.01. 2021 14:53
I find the oil thickness must be a lot to with it when kicking them over, my A7 gets more difficult in the cold that's why I leave it alone. yes fair weather biker I am , I hate being cold when I don't need to be *smile*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 11.01. 2021 14:58
During the warmer months I don't need to use the choke. A tickle of the carb is enough. If it's cold the choke is necessary. Are you choking and flooding your bikes enough Angus?
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Black Sheep on 11.01. 2021 15:25
Two things. Oil viscosity and wet sumping.
The A7 and A10 are on 20W-50 and neither wet sumps. Each will start first or second kick all year round. The Norton does wet sump and nonetheless starts ok in summer, not a chance in winter unless I drain the sump first. Actually, the Velo on straight 40 starts ok all year round but it doesn't wet sump though you do notice the difference kicking it over.
I suspect wet sumping is the main culprit.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 11.01. 2021 16:01
If it’s hard to start when cold, then you are very probably not enriching it enough.

If it has an air slide, close it completely and hold the throttle about 1/4 open when kicking.

If there’s no air slide, flood it copiously with the tickler.  If your first kick doesn’t start it, flood it more.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Angus on 11.01. 2021 21:21
All the bike like to be flooded hot or cold in summer, so I do the same in winter and today. I have tried some and full choke both today and other times and it does not appear to make a difference. The A7 does not wet sump, but the Norton does and this is part of the reason for the fortnightly startup, as it is not too bad after a couple of weeks. Occasionally in summer the Norton does sit for two plus weeks and still starts first or second kick. I accept the oil is thinker, straight 40 in both, I waited for a warmer day today to start them because of this. Normally you don’t even have to heave on the Norton to start it just a light swing. There maybe no science to it just the foibles of old bikes and I suppose it counted as my exercise for the day.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 11.01. 2021 21:43
Q.: Why does it not start with one kick?

A.: Because something is wrong.

It’s not getting enough fuel, or you have some sort of feeble spark caused by a fault in the ignition, or the plugs are fouled, or the engine is worn out, or... who else has any ideas?
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: RDfella on 11.01. 2021 21:53
The spark is feeble because the engine is turning over more slowly due to increased friction of cold oil. I recently experienced similar issues, noted under 'what were you doing today' or whatever the exact title is.  Except that my engine wouldn't turn over at all, due only to being cold. My other bikes are noticeably harder to kick over when cold, too.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Bsareg on 11.01. 2021 21:59
I've also found the volatility of modern fuel disappears within a month or two if it can vent to air. Topping up with fresh petrol seems to return easy starting.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 11.01. 2021 22:10
Frankly, a bike that takes twenty kicks to start is worthy to be an object of unkind humour.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Joolstacho on 11.01. 2021 22:19
It's common knowledge that modern fuel goes 'off' in a matter of weeks.
Draining tank and floatbowl and using fresh petrol could help.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: scotty on 12.01. 2021 05:58
Unlike my motorcycles my snow blower has no difficulty starting in the winter
I use Stabil gas/petrol additive
Works like a charm
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Swarfcut on 12.01. 2021 08:54
 Reminds me of the old gag of the Gardener and the Hosepipe.

 Difficult starter? Swallow your pride and invest in a can of Start Yer *asta*d.

   But yes, the holy trinity of mechanical, fuel and electrics are not at their best in low temperatures and a little bit of volatile chemical help is better than the frustration of being dressed for winter riding, kicking at a reluctant bike out in the cold.

 Swarfy.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 12.01. 2021 09:53
Someone here must own a BSA that starts readily on a cold day.

Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 12.01. 2021 10:27
Someone here must own a BSA that starts readily on a cold day.
Famous last words: Mine.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: BigJim on 12.01. 2021 11:09
Someone here must own a BSA that starts readily on a cold day.
Famous last words: Mine.

Ha, mine WAS pretty good. But then a good swing was generally easy due to the lack of compression!
Nice of GB to hex his bike so no others would be harmed in the making of this thread.
Assume your's is easy TT?
 *bright idea* *bash* *beer* *countdown*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 12.01. 2021 11:46

Assume your's is easy TT?
 *bright idea* *bash* *beer* *countdown*

Mine doesn’t properly count, because it’s another popular marque of 650 twin, but why wouldn’t they all start the same?

My “tuned” T110 starts easily in that it will start if you can kick it over.  On a cold morning it requires tickling of both carbs until petrol is liberally flowing out and when it starts on 1/4 throttle, I have to keep revs up for a few seconds, or the engine will stall. There are no air slides.

The oil, which don’t think is all that relevant, is synthetic 20W/50.

The compression ratio is 7.5:1, but the rings seal well and a hot compression test shows 170 psi, so in that way, with an arthritic knee, it’s not so easy to start!

 To kick it over, I free the clutch, find compression, set the kickstart to near horizontal and leap on it.  This is done astride the bike with the stand retracted.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Butch (cb) on 12.01. 2021 14:48
Mine is out in the bike port under covers. Oil is straight 50 so probably like treacle at the moment. I'll not be stepping on the kicker this side of Easter I don't suppose, and may not even pull the cover back between now and then. I've got no place to go and no reason to go there, and I don't hold with firing my motors up just for the sake of it, or a warm through, or whatever.

When I do get to pull it out I expect it to have wet sumped hardly a drop, and fire up within a kick or two. But maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment. 
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 12.01. 2021 15:12
Someone here must own a BSA that starts readily on a cold day.
Famous last words: Mine.

Should be ok if the bike didn’t hear you say that.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Angus on 12.01. 2021 15:53
Frankly, a bike that takes twenty kicks to start is worthy to be an object of unkind humour.
I saw this and smiled and waited for the banter to start (note this is in chat offtopic), I would have joined in as well as the Norton defiantly had many many more kicks.
So today as the general opinion was there must be something wrong, I started the A7 again. The same process as yesterday first kick and started, it is one degree warmer but here are some points.
Bike is reliable all summer first kick starter.
Bike will start reliably if started more regularly e.g not left for two weeks (not sure what the period is)
I always drain the carb float, by letting the engine run with the taps off. This means the petrol used for startup is ‘fresh’ out of the tank whether it is started every two weeks or every other day.
I always let the float fill and then tickle until petrel comes out of the tickler vent
I have never used the choke, well I do try when it is hard to start but it never seams to make a difference.
All the above points to wet sumping BUT the A7 does not appear to wet sump. In the past I have drained the sump to check when it has been hard to start and there is not much in there no more then when I do oil changes.

I am a very logical person it makes no sense to me why leaving a bike for two weeks in colder weather should effect the starting, unless I have missed the answer in amongst the posts.

ps I am not desperate for an answer I know they will start and I know that when they are getting used they will start easily. plus it is good exercise  *smile*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: RDfella on 12.01. 2021 16:10
So an engine that's hard to start in winter will start easily in summer. What's changed? Mechanically, nothing. What has happened is twofold: the petrol vapourises less easily and droplets of petrol aren't going to be ignited by a weak spark. Secondly, the engine is going to turn over more slowly due to oil viscosity. Oil in the bore will drag on the pistons, oil on crank journals, in the gearbox - even the primary chain - all are going to combine to ensure the engine turns over more slowly on the kickstarter (or electric starter where applicable) when temperatures are low. Now a magneto produces a poor spark at low revs. Reduce those revs even more and it's quite possible that in winter there's barely any spark at all. Solution? Don't ride in the winter. I don't, it's too bloody cold and I only ride for pleasure. Besides, it's dangerous riding with a coal fire on your petrol tank and a large glass of brandy in your right hand.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: berger on 12.01. 2021 17:10
I agree with RD on this one , I have a chain soaking in straight 50 oil and it's like treacle, so the oil viscosity has a lot to do with how fast you can spin the engine and how good the petrol and ignition are.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 12.01. 2021 17:30
Well I daresay that if you do your kickstarting in some sort of slow motion, it might not spark or start,  so don’t do that!

Just by the way, SAE50 (Castrol GP50) oil is not suitable for winter use in the U.K.  It gets so thick that it may not flow sufficiently, under gravity, from the tank to the pump.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Angus on 12.01. 2021 17:56
Thanks again for your replies RDfella, berger and TT
RDfella, berger
No it is not a difference between summer and winter it started first kick today and would do I am sure tomorrow, but if I leave it for a couple of weeks it will be a pain again.
so its not oil viscoity, week spark or poor fuel vaporisationas there where all the same as yesterday  *smile*
As below everything points to wet sumping but I am fairly sure the A7 does not do that. Also all my bike do it the including the model 7 and the A10 and they will all start if started the day or a couple of days later.
I will do a trial and try starting the A7 with slowly larger gaps and see where the cut-off appears to be. I will also check it for wet sumping again.
I have just thought of another common denominator that is the kicker (ME) but I am sure I am doing the same thing all the time summer winter, yesterday and today
Also as below I dont need an answer, it may just be old bikes and mine in particular and there is no logical explanation.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Black Sheep on 12.01. 2021 19:31
Perhaps ageing knees are creakier when it's cold...
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Seabee on 12.01. 2021 19:49
The SR will start in any weather with minimal effort. One trick I do, is to run the carb out of gas when shutting down. That way I get a "fresh" dose from the tank. If I let it sit in the carb, it seems to go bad much quicker and doesn't have enough oomph left in it to start. I use Stabil over the winter and have run the same fuel with no issues at all.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: JHG1958 on 12.01. 2021 20:01
In winter the refineries spike petrol with short chain hydrocarbons even as low as butane.  These happily dissolve in the petrol but will preferentially vaporise,  hence the myth that petrol goes off with age.  These volatiles will help an engine start.  If you are using petrol bought in the summer it will have less of the volatiles and be harder to start.

Petrol left in an open vented container will loose these volatiles making engines harder to start.

This maybe a contributor to hard starting but all the other great points in this thread will work against you.

Try not to leave petrol from the summer in the tank. Top it up with fuel from a sealed container.. it may help but only one kick less. 

Best of luck
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Joolstacho on 12.01. 2021 21:58
What price Electric starter?  *shh*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: olev on 13.01. 2021 00:59
Listen to Swarfy,
<Difficult starter? Swallow your pride and invest in a can of Start Yer *asta*d.>
I've got a stuffed hip and have used it for years for a first kick start-up.
Other than a push, it was the only way to start the Greeves (RIP) which was a real pig. (in more ways than one)
cheers
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Joolstacho on 13.01. 2021 02:43
In winter the refineries spike petrol with short chain hydrocarbons even as low as butane.  These happily dissolve in the petrol but will preferentially vaporise,  hence the myth that petrol goes off with age.  These volatiles will help an engine start.  If you are using petrol bought in the summer it will have less of the volatiles and be harder to start.

Petrol left in an open vented container will loose these volatiles making engines harder to start.

This maybe a contributor to hard starting but all the other great points in this thread will work against you.

Try not to leave petrol from the summer in the tank. Top it up with fuel from a sealed container.. it may help but only one kick less. 

Best of luck




What country are you in? -I'd imagine it would make a difference.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 13.01. 2021 08:48
I also always let the engine empty the carb when I'm finished running the bike.

I've never experienced problems with petrol left in the tank from last season. Perhaps UK petrol is still better than some other countries.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: berger on 13.01. 2021 11:55
when I used to use mine for work if didn't fire up after a few kicks the plugs were held over the gas stove put back in and that worked a treat. I can remember being a young en and my dad trying the moggy 1000 after a snow storm and the wind had whipped the snow through the front grill and covered the engine. it wouldn't start because the battery was weak and struggled to turn it over. out came the starting handle and away we went. years later it was a discussion with his mates about WHY don't they make cars with starting handles anymore.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 13.01. 2021 13:06
...WHY don't they make cars with starting handles anymore.
Cars these days do not have a spare wheel, hence no jack either! *dunno2*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: berger on 13.01. 2021 13:26
don't they have that thin emergency wheel and a jack now? there's so much wrong in this present time we live in *pull hair out* *bash*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Black Sheep on 13.01. 2021 14:55
Bizarrely, my wife's Subaru came with a spare wheel well but no spare wheel, just a can of skoosh. A spare wheel was rapidly obtained and proved useful.
So many vehicles have spare wheels under the bodyshell where they are subjected to years of salt spray and neglect and hence of no use when required.
How come Easy Start is essential for the tractor or lawnmower when it's cold but does nothing for a reluctant bike?
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: RDfella on 13.01. 2021 15:00
Easy start works well on diesels (just spray past the intake, not directly into it or you may blow a head gasket or worse) but less so on petrol. However, it has come in useful on the B31 (actually B33 engine now, with light flywheels and 9:1 comp ratio).
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 13.01. 2021 15:46
don't they have that thin emergency wheel and a jack now? there's so much wrong in this present time we live in *pull hair out* *bash*
Our Panda had an emergency spare but our latest vehicle just has a pressurised can of sealer and a battery powered compressor.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: berger on 13.01. 2021 16:09
greybeard I have just lost the will to live. things are now all in a sorry state. the job is ******
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Alex kettle on 13.01. 2021 18:28
I think the idea of loosing the spare is to gain precious fuel economy figures. The invention of run flat tyres too has seen its demise too. I wouldn’t be without a spare wheel and don’t like the idea of run flats myself. If I ever have trouble starting anything I find a quick squirt of brake cleaner does wonders.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: bsa-bill on 13.01. 2021 18:54
Quote
How come Easy Start is essential for the tractor or lawnmower when it's cold but does nothing for a reluctant bike?

It's a class thing
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: muskrat on 13.01. 2021 19:49
G'day Fellas.
Wots Winter *????* *lol*
I sort of found out moving over the mountains in July. Morning temps just below 0c.
I believe oil viscosity has a lot to do with it and wet sumping makes it worse. My 51 A7 with 40/70 oil that wet sumps is a prime example.
Then there's the fuel/air ratio. Cold air needs more fuel hence the extra tickle and two prime kicks instead of one. On really cold morns I'd start with a #5 plug to warm up then put the #7 back in (just like the old days racing my Montesa GPMW360 two stroke).
As for age of fuel, I've found the higher octane doesn't last as long as the poverty grade. Anything over two months old goes in the parts washer.
Cheers
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 13.01. 2021 20:16
greybeard I have just lost the will to live. things are now all in a sorry state. the job is ******
For gawds sake don't commit suicide, things will look better when you can get to the pub.  *beer*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: scotty on 14.01. 2021 01:05
This is the stuff I use in all of my gasoline engines that sit for long periods.
Motorbikes, mowers, chainsaws, generators, mobile pumps, boat engines and errr..snowblowers
Works for me
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Black Sheep on 14.01. 2021 07:15
Must just be lucky. I've never had problems with petrol going off. I can leave a Land Rover 6 months or a generator a year and they start just fine. I generally try and keep petrol tanks full just to prevent condensation build up (the worst for that is the central heating oil tank - before each delivery I have to pump out 5 0r more litres of water).
Perhaps BP Ultimate is better than some.
My record was starting an A10 that had been standing for 17 years with the petrol that had been in the tank all that time.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: groily on 14.01. 2021 07:56
I must also have 'lucky' petrol (standard unleaded 98 from wherever). Things start after long intervals, no problem - including in winter even when thick oil makes them sluggish. 
But I am a heavy sod and engines daren't resist the bulk. I have concluded that the mixture of protein, fat and carbs consumed is as important as the mixture supplied to carbs with jets in.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 14.01. 2021 08:28
Reminds me of the old gag of the Gardener and the Hosepipe.

 Difficult starter? Swallow your pride and invest in a can of Start Yer *asta*d.

   But yes, the holy trinity of mechanical, fuel and electrics are not at their best in low temperatures and a little bit of volatile chemical help is better than the frustration of being dressed for winter riding, kicking at a reluctant bike out in the cold.

 Swarfy.

Please never use this on a petrol engine.
You risk a big preiginiton and either a hole in the piston or broken rods/ crank for the engine going backwards.

If you really need more volatiles gat a can of carb cleaner, it is much much easier on your engine.
Also remember a little is good, a lot strips the oil off the sides of the bore making starting even harder.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 14.01. 2021 09:36
I’m another of the lucky souls whose petrol doesn’t “go off,” in any vehicle.

Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: RDfella on 14.01. 2021 12:58
My experience (motorcycles, cars, lawnmowers etc etc) is that after a couple of months starting becomes more difficult. After a year, impossible. Recall a couple of years back trying to start the B31 with my son. Both kicked it until we were tired. Then we pushed it until we were knackered. Tried easystart - would splutter but not run. Drained the petrol (under a year old) and put fresh. Started 2nd or 3rd kick and ran perfectly. Like Swarfy, any petrol over a few months old now goes to parts cleaning duties. Even the damned expensive 97 stuff (which seems to be the worst offender). Even electric start engines take noticeably longer to start, sometimes over 5 seconds cranking.
Like others, when using my motorcycles I always turn the fuel off before reaching home, so no fuel is left in the carbs (can't on the Honda, it has an automatic fuel tap). On strimmers, chainsaws etc I empty the tank and then run the engine till it's out of fuel. Choice of oil is important for twostrokes, too. On modern stuff, no problem, but on the older gear at 16:1 I always use 4 str oil. Learnt the hard way after years of struggling to start engines after winter layup till one day I fetched a bottle of twostroke oil from the store only to find it had turned solid, just like soap. If mixture was left in the carbs, the petrol evaporated leaving a semi-solid paste blocking jets. Fourstroke oil without the fancy additives didn't do that. Was first alerted to this phenomenon by our local chainsaw dealer.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: olev on 15.01. 2021 00:15
After the horrors Trevor predicted using ether to start an engine I googled it.
The main detractors seem to be mechanics who want to rebuild your motor.
I must be lucky as I've been using it for years to start engines without any apparent dramas.
A quick squirt and one kick is cheaper than an electric leg, and anyhow it's easier to rebuild an engine than a hip.
Velocette should have provided a lifetime supply with every Venom.

youtube has some interesting videos about people reseating and inflating tyres using the stuff.
not sure that's for me.

cheers
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: ironhead on 15.01. 2021 03:09


youtube has some interesting videos about people reseating and inflating tyres using the stuff.
not sure that's for me.

cheers


Takes having a blowout to a whole new level   *countdown*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: muskrat on 15.01. 2021 08:31
So I walk with a limp.
Cheers
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 15.01. 2021 09:17
So I walk with a limp.
Cheers
A limp what?  *conf2*
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Angus on 15.01. 2021 14:29
I may have found the common denominator as mention earlier ME. Went to start the A10 today she does and had wetsumped, she is worse this year as she has 20/50 instead of straight 40. About an inch or so down in the oil tank. Now I don’t drain her with that level just start her and run her slowly until the tank refills. She like the A7 is a 1 or 2 kick starter in the summer, but in winter when left for a few weeks a real pain, I have even bump started her a couple of times.
So today after all your advise, let float bowl fill, tickle, full choke, two priming kicks, choke off, tickle again, bring over compression and kick. She fired did not start but fired. So tickle, choke on, priming kick, choke off, tickle again and kick, she burst into life  *clap* *smile*  *loveit*
Now you could say that was 5 kicks including the priming ones but I was not heaving on the kick start for those so I will count that as a two kick winter startup. A different technique required in the winter after a layup that I have never learnt before  *yeah*
I will try the same on the Norton, the A7 is still in my trial to see when she stops starting ‘normally’
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 15.01. 2021 14:50
Even if it is five kicks, that’s not twenty kicks!
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: sean on 15.01. 2021 22:11
i live in Canada I never start any of my bikes in the winter it just makes condensation insode the engine and trans as nothing get hot enough to burn it off I pull the plugs ground them out and kick them over a few times but never start the engine .
In spring I drain the sump and they fire right up .
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 16.01. 2021 09:15
After the horrors Trevor predicted using ether to start an engine I googled it.
The main detractors seem to be mechanics who want to rebuild your motor.
I must be lucky as I've been using it for years to start engines without any apparent dramas.
A quick squirt and one kick is cheaper than an electric leg, and anyhow it's easier to rebuild an engine than a hip.
Velocette should have provided a lifetime supply with every Venom.

youtube has some interesting videos about people reseating and inflating tyres using the stuff.
not sure that's for me.

cheers

Like most things Internal Combustion engine wise there are so many variables that it is not funny.
I live 450 meters from the landlord and about 10 meters lower.
We can both fill our tanks from the same servo & ride the 900 meters home ( OK 1350 for him )
His petrol will have gone off after about 2 weeks in summer and 2 months in winter.
Mine stays fine for an entire year
Also I run SV engines which are not as fussy as his OHV engines

Air temperature also makes a big difference as does humidity >
Some fuel will be off by the time you go home.

Either is substantially more volatile than petrol and the flame speed is a lot faster
Thus instead of a nice steady progressive burn, you get an explosion when using it.
In diesel engine this is fine as most have scolloped top pistons that are 1/2 " thick & substantially stronger con rods

The hydrocarbons use in carb cleaner are nowhere near as volatile as either and designed to burn at approxinately the same flame speed as normal petrol.
Even then when trying to flush crud through an engine ( mower engine ) or using short shots to diagnose a non starting engine the engines definately knock every time they get a shot

I get engines in with scoring on the cylinder walls so I ask have you been using starting fluid and to date every one has said yes
Worse with 2 strokes than 4 strokes .

Now if it the air temperature is low or the humidity is high these lessen the effects.

It is a free world and people are welcome to use what ever they like , but they can now do it with more knowledge than they did before.

Similar to snake oil like Sea Foam , Marvel Mystery Oil , Stabil and all the others.
They do work, within a limited set of conditions
Outside those they either don't work or are not needed in the first place .

Testimonials about how great these goos work are about as much use and value as testimonials about how the lattest home gym worked miricales and turn the 200KG slob int Charles Atlas with only 5 minutes work out once a week.

However what does work for every engine in every country at every altitiude on every fuel is to turn off the fuel & run the engine dry
If you are not using the engine for more than a month , either empty the tank or fill it to the brim.

And my bikes usually start first kick in winter, if it has not wet sumped too bad .
However I don't ride much on days colder than 15 o C which is a fine Summers day in most of the UK   
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: RDfella on 16.01. 2021 10:06
"on every fuel is to turn off the fuel & run the engine dry". Doesn't apply to most of our machines but, as diesels were mentioned in the article, remember the above quote doesn't apply to them, or you'll be a long time trying to start the engine afterwards.
As for engine knocking when using easy start - that's a sure sign of too much. Many people - whether starting petrol or diesel - tend to spray directly into the induction. That's courting disaster. As I mentioned earlier on this subject, spray PAST the induction, so the engine simply draws in what it needs. Some engines (eg 23C Perkins and York diesels) are unlikely to start without fluid, summer or winter. Often you'd find a 23C -engined vehicle with a tow rope permanently attached to the front of the vehicle.  One factory modification consisted of a bracket to mount the 'gasomatic' aerosol on the dashboard with a thin tube leading to the manifold (the long tube helped reduce the possibility of knock).
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: olev on 16.01. 2021 10:37
my google search on ether starting found a couple of sites that reckon you should never use the stuff on a diesel with glow plugs.
Apparently it can blow the intake manifold off. It makes you wonder how much they use.
I found a quick squirt into the air cleaner works for me.
Those boys resetting tyres on youtube seem to use half a can.
cheers
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Swarfcut on 16.01. 2021 11:33
    JEEZ... It was just a suggestion that worked for me, car, truck or bike, mower, chainsaw....on days when the whatever was devoid of any sign of life and the alternative was a long walk or another wasted day.

    Spraying into the air filter housing is the only option if you're single handed, and that way the motor draws in a mixture of starting air with a higher content of short chain volatiles, more likely to fire with a weak spark. Two handed means the engine can be cranked and the spray directed into a moving airstream. The secret is to use just the right amount, and yes too much will give pre ignition, but I seriously doubt major mechanical mayhem and actually running backwards. So spraying directly into an open carb is not the ideal way, but may be your only option. As to bore wear, surely we're talking small amounts, not gallons of the stuff, and neat fuel into the cylinders through fruitless tickling, choking and kicking would be even more detrimental as at these temperatures the fuel won't vaporise and be gone, unlike the more volatile spray.

    As to Angus' original post, I find full choke, a good tickle and a kick with the throttle just open a touch will get it to fire and clear its throat, then progressively pull up the choke as we get under way.

   The introduction of coil ignition was supposed to remedy the weak spark problem of magnetos at kickstart speeds. Does this hard to start in cold weather syndrome affect later A65's?  If it does, a fuel mixture problem is the more likely cause.

 Swarfy.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 17.01. 2021 10:47
    JEEZ... It was just a suggestion that worked for me, car, truck or bike, mower, chainsaw....on days when the whatever was devoid of any sign of life and the alternative was a long walk or another wasted day.

    Spraying into the air filter housing is the only option if you're single handed, and that way the motor draws in a mixture of starting air with a higher content of short chain volatiles, more likely to fire with a weak spark. Two handed means the engine can be cranked and the spray directed into a moving airstream. The secret is to use just the right amount, and yes too much will give pre ignition, but I seriously doubt major mechanical mayhem and actually running backwards. So spraying directly into an open carb is not the ideal way, but may be your only option. As to bore wear, surely we're talking small amounts, not gallons of the stuff, and neat fuel into the cylinders through fruitless tickling, choking and kicking would be even more detrimental as at these temperatures the fuel won't vaporise and be gone, unlike the more volatile spray.

    As to Angus' original post, I find full choke, a good tickle and a kick with the throttle just open a touch will get it to fire and clear its throat, then progressively pull up the choke as we get under way.

   The introduction of coil ignition was supposed to remedy the weak spark problem of magnetos at kickstart speeds. Does this hard to start in cold weather syndrome affect later A65's?  If it does, a fuel mixture problem is the more likely cause.

 Swarfy.
If you know a serious road racer, ask them about jetting for different weather condition
Part of the art of fine tuning.
Not needed on the road but makes all that difference on the track.
Again it is a case of what works for you just so long as you are informed .

As for exploding a tyre onto a rim. unless it is a massive tractor tyre it is a sure sign of a lazy cowboy fitter and generally an idiot to boot .
To get a tyre to inflate all you have to do is get the air to come in faster than it is going out.
To help doing this there are air pump connectors that clamp or screw onto the outside of the valve holder so the air can get in a lot faster
Thee are also sort of O rings on steroids that go on the rim and sit against the sidewalls if you can not get the bead to touch the sealing face on the rim enough to make enough of a seal for the tyre to inflate.
And while big tyres are a problem, try 3" & 4" rims some time
And starter fluid rots synthetic rubber so once thge tyre has made a seal it should be deflated & reinflated a few times to get rid of any volatiles left inside.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Greybeard on 17.01. 2021 11:03
I recently fitted tyres to a box trailer. I had trouble getting the tyre to seal against the wheel. I found a solution using ratchet tie-down straps. I put them around the tread and cinched them up tight.

Taking the valve cores out allows a better rush of air. Obviously, put them back in once the beads are in place.
Title: Re: Winter starting
Post by: Angus on 06.03. 2021 15:32
Just to polish this one off, the new technic https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=15908.msg135610#msg135610 (https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=15908.msg135610#msg135610) worked on all the bikes (except the triumph which has so many issue I dont count it). I gave up the trial with the A7 as now I know how to start it after a layup it did not seam worth while. It will soon be warmer and the 3 reliable bikes will all start being used regularly and will not require the extended procedure  *smile*