The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Joolstacho on 13.01. 2021 02:26
-
Into my 4th score years, fairly rattly ol' bones, 3/4 lungs -emphysemic at that, and maybe a little money coming my way soon, has had me thinking.
That new Enfield twin looks pretty good. And I have a sweet '89 Suzi GS500 that really does everything I need, with all the functional simplicity of an aircooled twin, and performance that any RGS could only dream about. BUT... Something's missing! My SR.
Steve McFarlane's electric start A10 modification looks terrific, a pretty good proposition surely. Not cheap, but.
Can I get reactions from people who've done this mod?
Am I going troppo? (Alright I can answer that myself!)
-
Hi Jools,
I have the kit here waiting until my new knee permits me getting back to the workshop
I posted about it here,
https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=15852.msg135079#msg135079
John
-
Hi Joolstacho,
I have also asked this question but got no responses from anyone with experience of it. Maybe John chaterlea25 is the only customer. You and I may be the next.! I am in the process of exchanges with Stephen McFarlane, and I'll let you know in due course what I have done - hopefully in a couple of weeks.
It isn't all that straight forward - 12V conversion is necessary - do you speed up the dynamo or get it converted to 12V as per Andrew at Priory Magnetos ? - negative or positive earth?. He needs you to send him your cush parts for machining - spares in case it doesn't get to UK? Do you purchase the battery from Stephen or get one locally - dimensions & CCA are important.
He did say that he has had 3 orders from Australia in the past month, so someone is ordering them.
Col
-
Yes Col, interesting. 12V conversion is easy enough, I have a JG available. Otherwise a rewind.
I wonder if a belt drive dynamo and belt drive primary is needed.
I'm sure we could get the battery locally. Least of the problems.
Do you know what conversion is needed on the primary chain case? I have an earlier one that I could use- nicer than stuffing with my super Super-Rocket one.
I assume the underslung starter motor drive needs to 'get into' to the primary casing. Wonder how all that is sealed.
Would be good to get someone who has done the conversion to advise us.
You know that Royal Enfield seems great, but then you look at the weight of it... over the top, what a shame.
-
Jools,
There are a couple of mods to the chaincase, but I have no details yet. Stephen apparently encloses detailed instructions.
Getting the battery locally should reduce the freight costs a little. I suspect that for our open roads, uprating the speed of the dynamo may not be essential, particularly if one installs LED lamps, and may depend on how much night riding you want to do and how many starts during the run. I am sticking with the chain primary - the chain and sprockets are new, and I think that the drive may need to be modified to make room for the wider belt.
Col
-
I've got the Pearson starter on my 500 goldie. The battery is a standard size gel type (glass mat) mounted on its end in the usual place. 12v 20Ah 220 CCA (starting amps). I use a 6v E3L dynamo with a 12v regulator with no problems, although I don't do much town work. So, I don't think battery and charging would be a problem on an A10.
-
G'day everyone.
Haven't posted for awhile, thought it might be time to let you know of my experience with the electric starter from S. McFarlane. Mine is no. 29 IIRC, fitted about 7 years ago on my '60 Super Rocket.
It was fitted due to crook knees, now 2 years after bilateral total knee replacement I can kickstart most things again. Including a recalcitrant hotrod SR500. The electric starter is still a bonus, especially when my brother is trying to get his Kawasaki W1 fired up, it's good to press the button to show him up.
The kit is a work of art, everything is supplied and fits. Pretty simple job only one hole to be drilled in inner primary about 10mm from memory. Everything else is bolt on using existing mounting points. I used a locally sourced battery, SSB Gel YBX14 possibly, tight fit but works fine. Converted to 12v with DVR2. Have not felt the need to change the dynamo drive but I do put it on the trickle charger when it's parked.
Now the big question, how does it work in normal day to day riding? It works very well and is still doing it's thing 7 years later. A few provisos though , the bike must be tuned well, mine I could start with the kickstart easily but until the maggy was reconditioned and the concentric was replaced with a new monobloc the starter struggled. It doesn't like a wet sumped engine.
Most of my riding is on country roads with a fair bit of dirt road component. The starter sits fairly low (see pic)but hasn't been a problem with clearance, nor dust and rocks thrown up.
So there you go, a good bit of kit that lasts and keeps us riding.
Cheers.
-
Excellent mate, very useful info, ta.
-
Hi All,
Some answers to questions above,
Chain primary drive is retained, I do not think a belt would fit?
Steve's price includes the battery and every screw, nut and gasket needed
There's a soft rubber donut seal that goes between the inner primary and the starter drive
The hole needed in the inner case is about 1/2in.
The standard kit is positive earth, negative earth is £50 dearer
The two tabs on the standard battey platform need to be flattened out to fit the battery supplied,
a WestCo SVR15L, the terminals are on top and shielded once fitted
As for charging, here is the blurb from his website on how many starts there are in the battery
I would not worry unless the charging failed and hundreds of miles had to be driven with headlight on ....
"I have exceeded my design objectives, because after 200 start-ups, the battery was down only half a volt! If your battery is fully charged, you should achieve 250-300 starts""
I do not know if Steve is VAT registered? if so the kit would be VAT free when exported , but if there is import duties /tax into Australia that would add to the costs ??
John
-
That is great feedback from Fringedweller and John Chaterlea. Just what Joolstacho and me were seeking. ;) *clap*
Col
-
Question for fringedweller - are the shortcomings due to the starter turning the engine too slowly, or does it struggle to turn the engine over? That could be either gearing ratio or starter motor power. For my set-up I've chosen the starter motor from a Honda Firestorm, so should be powerful enough but must shortly make a decision re gearing. Am currently thinking 15:1 or 18:1.
-
RD, In simple terms to answer your question it's like having a half flat battery, not fast enough.
If the engine is not in good tune, yes it struggles to start, obviously not the starters fault. Kick starting with gusto and 100kg on the kickstarter it turns it over faster and it will start.
With good spark ,empty sump and the carb in good condition it starts easily on the button hot or cold.
Gearing wise for this setup I don't know what it is nor do I know the rating of the starter motor.
Would a starter from a big twin (Guzzi, Harley, xv1000 yam etc) be a better proposition for you more so than one for a 4 cyl bike?
Don
-
Don - Thanks for the info. The Firestorm is 1,000cc vee twin - short stroke / high compression hence why I chose it (apart from the fact I've got one and it starts easily).
-
Hi RD
If I can get to the shed tomorrow I will do a gear / sprocket tooth count to check the reduction ratio
on Steves kit.
There is a fair amount of setting up the components so there is no binding which would cause symptoms like fringedweller has found ????
John
-
Hi All,
I counted the gear and sprocket teeth on the McFarlane kit earlier and I make out the total
reduction is 22.834 :1
John
-
Thanks John. Greater redn that I anticipated. Maybe that's why fringedweller (every time I look at that I think I see 'fridgedweller') experiences a slowish turn-over? Am sure most m/cycle starters are under 20:1 redn. Would be interesting to see what amps it draws.
-
Hi RD,
One thing I miss from the days at work is the DC grip ammeter, It was a very handy diagnostic tool when blokes cars wouldn't start
John
-
John - the ammeter with a clip at the rear? One in my tooltray - actually two, a plastic one that looks a trifle fragile and an all-steel one. Would hope the starter is pulling around 150A so a clamp (ring type) meter would be easiest. Apparently rule of thumb is an engine requires 1/20th of its horsepower to start - eg a 200hp engine requires c. 10bhp starter. Our bikes at around 40bhp would need a 2bhp starter. At 10v starting current that's 1500W divided by 10 = 150A. Roughly.
On a further note, was looking at an Alton starter kit fitted to a Velocette. From what I can judge, redn. ratio is around 30:1. Am now thoroughly confused regarding best ratio to choose.
-
Hi RD,
As the starter motors are universal DC type, the only thing that governs the speed is the load put on them and the internal friction,
I think I would start with a highish ratio? if the motor can spin the engine over then its revs will be governed by the effort to do so.
If the motor cannot spin fast enough to operate within its design limits it will soon burn out
My 2 cents worth
John
-
I fitted the starter in 2015/16 and have covered about 5500 miles. I’ve spent a lot of time and effort on it and generally pleased with it. However, I could not get it work as consistently as I thought it should even though it started easy on the kickstart. The bike has a Mikuni carb and has been completely rebuilt, the dynamo has a belt drive and I’m running 12v with a DVR2 regulator. I have tried two rebuilt mags and replaced the battery (it appears it was OK) but still could not get it to start as consistently as I’d like.
The impression I had was the starter does not turn the magneto over in the same way as a kickstart which made me think it’s a mag issue. Using the kickstart, the mag gets a sharp rate of turn but with the electric starter, it is a more consistent rotation. Having excess oil in the sump certainly will not help.
I was looking at getting my mag rebuilt again but having read all I can about the reconditioning of mags, I did not feel confident I could guarantee getting the quality of rebuild I thought was needed.
Since I am still able to cope with the kickstart but wanting to make starting as easy as possible, I looked at electronic ignition. I finally decided to go with Thorspark which I have just fitted with manual advance and retard. It starts OK but due to lockdown, I have not been able to get out on it to see the level of improvement over the mag.
I’ve needed the sprag clutch rebuilt twice due to kickback, once when I forgot to tighten the mag pinion and the other I’m not sure how it happened. Steve has been very helpful offering advice and prompt repair of the sprag clutch.
I recently had a gearbox problem which required removal of the starter and decided not to reinstall it but would otherwise have left it on.
If I had left the electric starter on with the Thorspark, I may have found that was all that was needed. Who knows?
My feelings are:
If it is the difference between enjoying your BSA or not, it is a good addition and worth fitting.
Don’t expect it to start a bike which does not already start easily and consistently.
It is well made piece of kit which has been thought through
The instructions are very good and well detailed but do read them a few times to get to grips with what needs to be done, it really pays.
I orignally fitted it as I thought I had a hip problem but pleased to say that no longer is the case.
Just my experience.
-
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the honest review of your experiences with the starter kit
Steve now insists that an auto advance is used in conjunction with the electric starter
The one thing I am going to add is a direct earth wire from the battery to the starter body
I have an original BTH magneto fitted to my SR, It throws out massive sparks. It will be getting serviced during the work of fitting the starter and gearbox work.
Like everything in life there are mag reconditioner's and there are Mag Reconditioner's
John
-
Good to get various views.
I'm saving up!
-
Thanks Keith,
I have bitten the bullet and sent off my cush parts for Stephen's modifications. I was fortunate in sourcing a spare set of cush parts locally before I had the courage to risk them - the COVID post not so reliable yet. I posted it on 28th January, and today (7th Feb) after 10 days it has only just got to Sydney airport awaiting a departing flight to UK. Seems it may take a while.
From your comments and John's, it may pay me to go over the dynamo and magneto as they haven't been checked for several years, and add an extra earth.
Col
-
Yes, I had auto advance fitted with my electric starter. My Rocket originally had manual A/R but when I fitted the electric starter I fitted another mag with auto A/R. Now gone back to manual A/R to use with the Thorspark ignition. All the best
-
Well my eagerly awaited Electric Leg Kit from Stephen McFarlane arrived yesterday 7th April. I posted the cush parts to Wales on 28th January, so it took nearly 10 weeks turnaround. I won't fit it immediately, but over the next 12 months. Short term I will refit the cush with gear attached to the sprocket and run it as is. Stephen did include the gear necessary to convert to 12Volt negative earth (a tiny bit more expensive), as I had changed to 6Volt negative earth some time ago. No change planned for the E3l Dynamo.
Reason for lashing out on the readies is my 160cm height (lowt ??) makes it hard enough to kickstart, and I find lately that I cannot kick it over unless on the centre stand. Funny that, I did not seem to notice these issues so much when I was 18 with my A7.
My right knee is just about knackered as well, so Steve's Kit is a logical step.
It took 6 days from Wales to Sydney, and 16 days from Sydney to go 150Km further north. If any Oz member is considering this Kit and wants an update on costs to and from Australia and my experiences with Customs etc. just send me a PM.
Col
-
Good luck with it. I've been using my A10 without the starter and it has about 8.25:1 pistons. First start of the day may take two or three kicks but then usually ok with one. I do notice it does need a good swing but generally OK to start off the centre stand. Still only a few miles on it so will see how it goes. I think a good move would be to fit 7.25:1 pistons as that must make the starting easier. I am rebuilding the original SR engine and just wondering if I keep it standard compression or fit 7.25's. May come down to availability.
-
G'day Col.
I'm going up to Bulahdeah on the 17th. Might have to go the long way, I'd like to have a look at the kit if your home. https://tinyurl.com/sxr7577s
Cheers
-
Hi Keith,
Mine is a Golden Flash with 7.25 standard on 20''' 2nd bore, so I am hoping your issues were partly due to yours being a SR. I am hoping the Kit will cope better on lower compression.
Hi Muskrat, will look forward to you dropping in. Will be in touch.
Col
-
Hi All,
I have been meaning to find this topic and post a follow up on fitting the electric starter
I have to say I am very happy with it and how it is working
I can see how somebody who does not have access to some decent engineering equipment could have problems
with the installation. Alignment of the inner chain drive assembly and the gear reduction assembly inside the primary case is essential for good performance of the starter
My SR has 8.3:1 pistons and so far the starter really winds the engine over easily
I fitted an ATD to the manual (proper) BTH magneto and got it serviced and remagnetised on a proper old school magnetiser.
I can still use the manual advance lever to tweak the timing when needed
John