The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: bsarider on 29.03. 2010 11:30

Title: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 29.03. 2010 11:30
Could anyone tell me the correct BTDC ignition timing in degrees for a 1949 longstroke A7 plunger I know the book says 5/16" with the advance weights wedged fully open but how does that relate in degrees BTDC.
    I have seen the formula on the site but am unable to work it out without going for a degree in nuclear science. Thanks Alan
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: MG on 29.03. 2010 12:13
Not having a suitable table for the longstroke A7 to look it up, I could calculate it for you.
I would just need the values for stroke (82mm I think???) and conrod length (eye centre to eye centre).

Cheers, Markus

***edit***

values in mm would be highly appreciated  *smile*
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 29.03. 2010 17:08
Marcus, Not having the engine apart I would not have the conrod lengths so hopefully someone else on the forum may have that information that they will post.The stroke is shown in the haynes manual as 84 mm. Alan
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: MG on 29.03. 2010 17:39
Alan,

I thought the longstroke A7 had a bore of 62mm originally?
If so, it would have a stroke of 82mm, resulting in a capacity of 495.13cc.

A stroke of 84mm would give a capacity of 507.20cc, which is not correct.

Perhaps someone here knows exactly and can also tell us the conrod length in order to calculate the timing figure (I set up a little Excel-spreadsheet some time ago for that, so that's an easy one then).

Cheers, Markus
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: a101960 on 29.03. 2010 21:22
bsarider

If you want to calculate degrees BTDC here is a handy calculator dedicated to this function. However 5/16th equates to 32 degrees BTDC.

John

http://john.rushworth.com/Pics/Piston/index.html
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 30.03. 2010 08:56
I always check using a degree wheel.
You can glue a magnet to the back of a plastic or aluminium timing disc and pop it onto the end of the cush drive nut.
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 30.03. 2010 11:44
In the  booklet BSA Instruction Manual A series in the technical data it gives the A7
stroke as 72.6mm  and the bore as 66mm and gives the cc as 497 but it doesnt specify "Longstroke" anywhere. The plot thickens I am sure someone will know. Alan
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 30.03. 2010 12:29
http://www.bsawiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Chapter03 this is also shown in service sheet
701 which I havent found yet. Got this information from Dragonfly Motorcycles. Alan
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: MG on 30.03. 2010 15:47
So yours being a 1949 model (engine numbers ZA7 101 - ZA7 7000) would have a bore of 62mm and a stroke of 82mm, like I thought, resulting in 495cc capacity.

Ignition setting, following the link you posted, would be 3/8" BTDC, so being timed a little earlier than on the short stroke models, which makes senses regarding the higher piston speed of the longstroke engine.

But still we'd need the conrod length in order to get the correct crank angle.  *help*
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: terryk on 31.03. 2010 11:35
I have long stroke conrods in the shed I will measure them for you ASAP.
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 14.04. 2010 10:53
TerryK from down under has sent me the details of the length between centres of the A7 longstroke plunger which is exactly 6.5".
Also talking to SRM they kindly gave me the information that with modern fuels the timing should be set at 5/16" or 35degrees BTDC on the  longstroke A7.I will give it a try when my Magneto returnes. Alan
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: MG on 14.04. 2010 11:34
Alan,

there's something wrong with the data from SRM.

Considering a stroke of 82mm and a conrod length of 6.5" (165.1mm), 5/16" would be approx. 32.7 deg, 3/8" approx. 35.7 deg.
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 15.04. 2010 14:07
MG it seems I keep getting conflicting data could I put it to the forum where would they time the engine 3/8"as it says in the BSA data or 5/16" as SRM have indicated which does not work out to 35 degrees. I havent received my mag back yet so there is still time to alter the degrees . What about 34 degrees and alter my points in or out
when I try the bike?
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: a101960 on 15.04. 2010 20:19
Quote
there's something wrong with the data from SRM.

Considering a stroke of 82mm and a conrod length of 6.5" (165.1mm), 5/16" would be approx. 32.7 deg, 3/8" approx. 35.7 deg.

Spot on MG. SRM have got it wrong. The figures quoted by you are much nearer the mark. Bsarider if you set the timing to 35 degrees you will be to far advanced.

John
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: Brian on 16.04. 2010 04:26
Just to clear up a small point here, the standard longstroke A7 runs 5/16" advance but the Star Twin has 3/8".
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 16.04. 2010 17:56
http://www.bsawiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Chapter03 Brian if you open up the link it says the A7 before engine number before is 3/8" advanced. my engine is 4414 ? alan
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: Brian on 17.04. 2010 06:37
Alan this has just got a little confusing. I have looked back through some of my workshop manuals and handbooks, all genuine BSA literature, and it seems even BSA couldnt make up its mind. However the majority of them seem to say that 3/8" is correct for all the longstroke, Z prefixed engines. It seems 5/16" was introduced with the newer shorter stroke engine, AA7 onwards. However depending on which particular piece of literature you have it could say 5/16" for the standard ZA7 motor. Nothings ever straight forward in the world of old bikes.
I have timed my Star twin to 3/8" and it goes well, not a hint of pinging
Title: Re: A7 Plunger Timing
Post by: bsarider on 18.05. 2010 10:34
At last the Magneto is back  and FTW in Sheffield made a nice job of it, prior to fitting the Mag I did some more work on the Plunger timing.
   With a degree disc fitted to the timing side mainshaft nut,I found TDC using an old plug with a piece of screwed thread ,took the difference from one rotation and achieved TDC.I also rigged up a DTI and again checked that TDC was correct.
 taking readings from the DTI I wound the engine back from TDC and then forward to 5/16" BTDC and the degree disc read 30 degrees, Doing the same for 3/8" the disc read
33.8 degrees which is not what was expected. I have timed the engine up at 3/8" so hopefully it will start,I will let you know.
Just tried the bike and it kicks up first time and ticks over just need to give it a road test next
to see if it has any power. The bike runs and pulls well,whats next .Alan