The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: lawnmowerman on 04.08. 2010 13:36
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Based on alanp's recommendation in an earlier topic I ordered a new seat from Leighton's. The seat came today and I have just finished fitting it. Although fairly expensive (£139 inc VAT and delivery) I am very pleased with it.
The Wassel seat fitted by the PO was incorrect for the bike and was probably used pre 59 and is narrower than the seats used 59 onwards. In the pic the Wassel is on the left and the Leighton on the right.
The Wassel seat was also flat at the top and did not have the different levels between rider and pillion which stops you sliding backwards. You can see the difference in the pic - the Leighton is at the top.
The cover on the Leighton has more of a grainy imitation hide effect which I think looks better and is as I remember covers back in the day. It is also more comfortable than the Wassel although I have not ridden the bike yet. After 60 miles last night on the Wassel I was walking like Jon Wayne! It still seems that I am sitting a little high so I may try a set of export bars a couple of inches higher although it may mean a new front brake cable - clutch looks like it may reach. Not sure if there will be enough slack on the horn/dip switch. Anyone fitted the western bars ? any advice would be welcome.
The seat comes bare with mounting bolts and studs so it was simple to swap over the front mounting but the holes in the mounting strap which sits on the rear guard were a little close together for the seat mounting studs so I took it off and squeezed the cranked ends a bit flatter in a vice which gave the necessary clearance.
This underlines our many discussions about quality of parts ? buy cheap and pay dear in the long run.
BTW does anybody know what the two frame lugs are for under the seat each side above the oil tank and tool box ? mine have a couple of bolts in them which do nothing and the PO has used one for an earth lug. You can see one of the bolts in the last pic with the head pointing upwards ? it looks like they may have been mountings for a sprung single seat - but on a swinging arm bike???
Jim
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Hi,
Regarding those bolts, they are for a sprung seat. I have an article from a 50s issue of Cycle magazine which tests a swing arm road rocket fitted with a sprung lycette, from the dealers.
Cheers,
Iain
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There are rubber buffers that sit on top of those two bolts and take some of the weight of the seat.
Available many places, a bit of a fiddle keeping them on - a good contact glue is the way to go
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I agree Leighton do top quality work. However, my personal preference as regards the look of the 2 seats you have is the Wassell as it sits closer to the frame. The Leighton looks perched a bit high.
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I thought it looked a bit high Ian. Part of the reason for fitting the new seat was that the Wassel seemed a bit high. I wonder if the correct mountings are fitted or whether there are different types available to lower it a bit.
Bill, there is about an inch between to top of the bolt and the seat pan - not sure if the rubber buffers are that big or whether the seat is sitting too high.
I will give Leightons a call and see what they suggest - it may be that the brackets I am using came with the Wassel and are too high for the Leighton.
Jim
PS. Tried Leightons before I posted this but they are on holiday until 16th August so I will have a look through the parts books for original items.
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Buffers are about (barely) one inch with a 1/4 inch recess for the bolt
Draganfly have them as well as others, part number 42-9183 ,£2.70 each and for A' 60 to 62
you might have to put a longer bolt in, it's the same size/thread as the rear chain adjuster bolts
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Jim... Thanks for taking the trouble to showing those pictures they help very much! I also have a Wassle seat on one of my A10s and it is high as you say but yet fits much more snugly to the bikes frame. Although looking good it is indeed uncomfortable so I know exactly what you mean.
The Leighton seat does not look out of place on your bike even though it sits a little higher off the frame and I'd imagine it is very comfy to sit on being a flatter surface.
I'm not sure what to do as I'm needing a seat for my Super Rocket which I'll be selling on later, it currently has a plunger seat and looks horribly wrong but yet incredibly comfy! sigh... decisions decisions?
What will become of your redundant wassle seat? To the back of the shed? Ebay? Bin? or to some nice fella on the forum with a begging bowl in hand? *smile* (holding decent beer vouchers as well)
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Someone can put exact dates on this but the Leighton seat is the correct style for Super Rockets. The other seat is the style they fitted on earlier models e.g. my Gold Star had that earlier style (i.e. deeper front and thinner rear) and also B31s etc etc. Also the seat mounting bracket at the rear was different I recall. I wouldn't have bent the bracket you had and would have slotted the bracket's seal mounting holes to avoid that slight raised look. The correct seat will have more space under it than the earlier style and wrap the mudguard at the rear more.
Hope this helps.
Alan
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Hi LJ. Not sure what to do with the Wassel seat. I may try to see if I can get the Leighton seat to sit a bit lower as it is very comfortable and seems to have two sets of mounting holes underneath. I am using the forward set as that is where the mounting strap is mounted at the moment. If I move the mounting rearwards on the mudguard and use the rear mounting holes on the seat or perhaps make a new mounting strap I may be able to get it almost an inch lower due to the curvature of the mudguard. The front mounting is not the same as the mounting in my BSA parts book - the OEM part may get the front a bit lower.
I will ask Leighton's what they think when they come back from holiday.
If I can get the Leighton a bit lower then I will probably sell the Wassel to fund some export bars and a longer clutch and front brake cables. I think I will feel more comfortable with slightly higher bars as I have found that even with the step in the Wassel seat the overall seat height is about the same. This makes the standard bars feel too low to me and tends to mean that more weight is transferred to my wrists.
Never seemed to have that problem 40 years ago with clip-ons at the bottom of the forks and rearsets *smile*
Jim
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Thanks Alan. When I bent the bracket I slightly straightened the doglegs at each end as the holes were too close together so this would have very slightly lowered the mounting holes - they were only about half a hole out. I am not sure whether the front and rear mountings were also supplied by Wassel with the seat so it is worth doing a little investigation.
I do not regret getting the seat as it is so much more comfortable and as both you and Leighton's say, it is correct for the bike.
(10 minutes later)
I have just been out to the garage and taken the seat off to check the mountings and they do not look far off the OEM parts but when I removed the rear mounting and positioned the seat back on it looked a lot better - what do you think? I reckon I can bend a piece of steel strip and make a new bracket to fit the seat at that level.
The PO had also put a rubber strip between the bracket and the guard about 4mm thick to protect the paint so I will probably leave that there. He also put some between the front mount and the seat so I will probably take that out and elongate the mounting slots slightly to get the front a bit lower.
When I said in my earlier post that there were more mounting holes in the seat rearward of those used ? I actually meant forward ? about an inch. I could use those and move the mount forward which due to the guard curvature, would have the effect of lowering the seat but rather that put another two holes in the pristine guard I will make a new mount.
The seat does look quite chunky from the back but I will be fitting a 70s craven rack when I have made the brackets so that and the top box will tend to disguise it.
Thanks for the tip on the rubber buffers Bill ? I will locate some and fit them to give a bit of support in the centre.
Jim
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I have a Leighton seat on mine which uses the rear most fixings and also looks too far away from the frame tubes. The illustration on a copy of the original RGS sales literature definitely shows a section of the frame tube hidden by the seat so something is not quite right.
As you have said, drilling another two holes in the guard is not really an option so I also need to play with the rear bracket to get the seat lower. I think the problem could be that the Leighton seat base is not as close to an original as it should be.
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Lawnmowerman,
If you are using the rear bracket which bolts to the top of the guard, you are using the wrong type.
For 1960 on, there are two "L" brackets which bolt to the side of the guard.
Regarding the rubber buffers, you will need two 5/16" cycle bolts with lock nuts so you can adjust the height of the buffers.
If you don't fit them, you risk bending your seat base, depending on how heavy you are!
Trev.
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Thanks Trev - spot on and worth a karma point. I thought of making a couple of L brackets but I wanted to keep as original as possible - knowing that this was standard practise means that I will go down that road instead of using the mounting on top of the guard. I would have needed to get hold of an anvil and used the barbie for heat to make the modified top bracket as it needs to be made of fairly thick strip.
Was the front bracket modified too after 1960?
I have just been to the garage to have a look and there are two holes in the sides the guard just below the front mounting holes on the seat which have a couple of spare bolts in so this must be the mounting points. I wondered what they were for. Looks like the design of the Leighton seat has been carefully thought out with two sets of mounting holes to cater for both mounting scenarios.
I will definately go for the centre supports with rubber buffers rather than risk bending the seat pan - the bolts are already there with lock nuts - one is being used for a main earth point for the leccies.
Jim
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This all-so-clearly explains why my later-style comfy wide seat sits too high on the original '55 mudguard with the top-mount bracket. Traveling right now, so can't check for the extra holes. There are some, but can't recall them in the forward seat hole location. Really, it would not make much sense to prepare a mudguard for a seat yet to be conceived.
Richard L.
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I have located the brackets from Lyford Classics part no LCS5126B (42-6899) £5.99 a pair listed for 1960 onwards models. Also the rubber buffers which sit on top of the bolts used for the single seat option part no LCS5128 (42-9183) £2.30 each. Ordered them today so I will update with new pics when fitted next week.
Interesting that the SR could be ordered with the Lycette single seat as a factory option. Clears a lot of space on the rear guard for a luggage rack or small top box for tools and a few cans of beer if you do not need a pillion seat.
Jim
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Thats a result, now I know what to do with mine.
What a site this is eh! wink2
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Lawnmowerman,
You will find four tapped holes in the rear section of your seat base.
One set for standard "L" bracket mounting and the other for RGS top guard mount.
The front bracket stayed the same.
Trev.
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Thats a result, now I know what to do with mine.
What a site this is eh! wink2
My excitement was a bit premature as part # 42-6899 is for the Super Rocket mudguard not the RGS. *red* so back to square one. *problem*
I found on Lyfords site a part # 42-9199 quoted as 'RGS Rear Seat Bracket', I don't suppose anyone has an image of this?
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Goldseeker - I forgot that you have curved guards - you need the valanced type to use the brackets as they need a vertical surface to bolt to. Is it possible for you to make another curved support on top of the mudguard but make the mounting ears a bit lower? It would probably be best to offer up the seat first without the bracket and locate it at the front and adjust the rubber buffers on the single seat mounts so the seat looks right. Then you will be able to get an idea how low you need to go with the curved bracket at the rear. (Perhaps make a pattern first with a bit of soft ally bolted to the guard and then bent in situ to suit the seat height). Sounds like you may well have a market if you make a few extra. *smile*
If you talk to Mike at Lyfords he may be able to describe the RGS bracket - he is very helpful.
My brackets came today from Lyfords and I tried them on the spare set of holes in the guard and the seat sat lower - just enough to get fingers under the back against the guard with a polishing cloth. I may take it a little lower by elongating the holes on the L brackets but I would then glue a piece of HD foam on the seat base out of sight at the rear in case the seat flexes a little with a pillion passenger and marks the paint on the guard. I ordered rubber buffers too and they fit a treat over the top of the redundant bolts used for the single seat option and support the middle of the seat - perhaps I will add a spot of contact adhesive to stop them falling off but once the seat is in place they cannot move.
I will add some pictures when I have finished the job.
BTW, those of you with Wassel seats will not need the rubber buffers as I noticed on my Wassel that there are some built-in rubber blocks which rest on the frame tubes each side.
Jim
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Making up a bracket to with lower 'ears' is on the cards Jim, but buying one that does the job just makes getting back on the road quicker. Working on bikes is for the winter. *smiley4*
Seeing how yours looks once you have done will be of interest.
Col.
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I think this is what goes as a RGS seat bracket, not too sure as everything seems to be labelled RGS these days
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I think this is what goes as a RGS seat bracket, not too sure as everything seems to be labelled RGS these days
Thanks Bill, that would do the trick, the 'ears' are a good deal lower than the bracket I have at the moment.
Col.
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Bill - this bracket looks a lot stronger than the L bracket solution and does not show when the seat is on. Did you buy it or did it come with the bike. I may use it instead of the L brackets. If I cannot buy one it does not look too difficult to make.
Jim
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Hi Jim - bought this off the dreaded auction site as it seemed to be passing through without a bid, but they are available from a few traders and not too expensive, however this is one case where a repro item is better than the original - stronger judge for your self SRM and Draganfly have them.
But this is like the one I bought - item 290459707227 ( this is much more than I paid for mine ) and SRM and Draganfly also about halve this price but as I said their brackets don't seem as strong
One thing to note If you decide to make one, the ears on this are bent (on an angle) in such a way as to make the bracket fit one way only, I would bend them at right angle to the line of the bracket, then with the holes drilled offset (pic one) you would have an option of two distances should you need them
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Lawnmowerman,
The RGS bracket is a hell of a thing to make. I made one years ago but have since bought one as shown.
You will have a bit of an issue with the guard top radius with the manufactured one.
Why not just go the easy way as BSA intended? If you paint the "L" brackets the same colour as the guard they will not be noticeable, if that is an issue.
Trev.
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Thanks Bill. The pics show exactly how the bracket is bent and I will probably have a go at banging one out of a piece of flat strip and bend the ears at about a 20 degree offset to square - I think this will have the effect of bringing the ears parallel with the length of the seat base. I looked at the bracket on the auction site and the pic of your bike and I would have to take some of the curvature out of the RGS bracket to make it fit which will probably spread the seat mounting holes apart. Why is it that anything with RGS in the desription is twice the price of standard stuff - even if it is sometimes the same part?
Trev - thanks for the info. The curvature on the RGS guard is a lot tighter than the valanced type on my SR. Probably a bit easier to shape on mine if I make it to fit the seat base first and then scribe through the guard holes onto the bracket for the fixings. I have the RGS L brackets anyway so I can paint these and use them as a second option.
Jim
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Why is it that anything with RGS in the desription is twice the price of standard stuff - even if it is sometimes the same part?
In a word GREED!!!!!
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Hi all
Just an update on this thread which may be useful to other members.
I ordered some BAP taps last week from SRM and while I was looking at their website I noticed they sold a RGS seat bracket which is similar to the standard bracket but the ears sit a little lower. I made a bracket from some flat iron but it was a bugger to make because the bending angles of the ears are not at right angles. I thought I would try the SRM bracket and ordered one up as even with my fabricated bracket the seat still sat a little too high for my liking.
The usual brackets listed elsewhere for the RGS are L brackets.
The bracket arrived and the curvature matched my SR guard perfectly and all I had to do was widen the seat mounting holes as they were about a mm too close together. The seat sits exactly where I want it now with the rear about 3/8" above the guard.
Impressed with the BAP taps too - NO MORE LEAKS!!!!!!!!
Jim
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copy the BAP tap recommendation!!!
still not even the slightest sign of a leak here after 7 months (on all 4 taps I have in use)
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I have BAP taps on my Guzzi and they are still like new after 17 years. *clap*
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now that sounds promising, Brian *smile*