The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: spyke on 10.02. 2011 18:28

Title: old bike mart revelation
Post by: spyke on 10.02. 2011 18:28
Hi chaps,
I think it was in this months OBM a few paragraphs on whether  some insurance companies would insure a bike with no lights, they stated they would get  the insurance companies views sometime in the future , but as im building a Spitfire look a like ie no lights im a bit concerned.Any body got any comments or experience on the subject?
Spyke
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: lawnmowerman on 10.02. 2011 18:47
I think you may have some problems. If the bike (or vehicle) was built and originally registered with no lights it may be ok but as you are building a lookalike it is a bit of a grey area.
You may even have problems with the MOT but I believe that if every item of the lighting is removed a daytime MOT could be issued.
Personally I would be a bit nervous about riding on our roads without a brake light and I tend to use the headlamp at all times. With the poor standard of car driving and inconsideration to bikers nowadays we need all the help we can to be seen.
I am sure there are others on the forum who have bikes with no lights and daytime MOTs who will be able to recommend UK insurers.

Jim
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: iansoady on 11.02. 2011 14:49
I can't answer the question specifically but I've found Peter James  (http://www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk/index.aspx) excellent. Unlike Carole Nash and Footman James, they haven't sold out to the big battalions and still have a human being who understands insurance on the other end of the phone.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: Goldy on 11.02. 2011 17:00
I saw that in obm but there must still be daytime MOT,s because trials bikes don,t have lights and yet they ride on road sections.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: NickSR on 11.02. 2011 20:50
Hi Spyke

I have contact in the MOT world, who is a classic biker seems to know all the right information, will see him in about 3 weeks, will ask him your question.

You could ask at your MOT station that you will be taking your Spitfire when its ready if you are like me I take the Super Rocket around the corner and C11G 25 miles away, the guys says the brakes not very good 1954 and they havent improved with age.

Regards
Nick
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: Mosin on 15.02. 2011 15:40
I can't answer the question specifically but I've found Peter James  (http://www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk/index.aspx) excellent. Unlike Carole Nash and Footman James, they haven't sold out to the big battalions and still have a human being who understands insurance on the other end of the phone.

Based on your recommendation, today I have just renewed my insurance with Peter James and it came in at a full £50 cheaper than either Carole Nash or Footman James were able to quote. Needless to say I am one very happy lad indeed!

Cheers mate!
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: iansoady on 15.02. 2011 15:51
Excellent.

Oddly, Peter James couldn't match my FJ renewal quote for my modern Hinckley Tiger....
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: cyclobutch on 17.02. 2011 11:04
Did that include breakdown cover for mainland Europe?
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: iansoady on 17.02. 2011 15:55
My cover from Peter James does.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: Brucie64 on 18.02. 2011 10:57
Hi Spyke,

I have to say that I was filled with the same intrepidation as you when it came to putting my "Replica Spitfire" on the road. In reality is was a breeze, I have had the bike MOT'd at two different garages over the past few years and neither have batted an eyelid to its lack of lights (mine doesn't have any electrics other than the magneto for the engine). The only thing they stipluated was that the bike needed a rear reflector on the mudguard.

I used "ebike" to insure it and again they never questioned whether or not it had lights (I think it was around £90 fully comprehensive for the year based on 3-4k mileage).

Hope this puts your mind at rest
Ps (There is a photo of my bike in the 2010 picture competition if you want to closer look)

Regards
Bruce
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: spyke on 19.02. 2011 08:51
thanks for that bruce ,did you tell the insurers exactly what the bike was ie a replica or did you just say it was an A10 and did you say it had no lights?

Spyke
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: Brucie64 on 20.02. 2011 20:59
Hi Spyke,

No, my log book states the bike is a "BSA Spitfire" so thats what the insurers have detailed on my insurance certificate. I didn't mention that it didn't have any lights and they didn't ask!

I would have thought because the bike is classed as a vintage machine the insurers will know that it will only be used now and again on a Sunday afternoon and vary sparingly at that so the fact that it might not have electrics isn't really a concern to them. I think someone else mentioned earlier on this topic that loads of trials and scambler bikes can be road legal and yet have no lights, I wonder how many of their owners have mentioned or been asked by their insurers if their bikes had lights?
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: a101960 on 20.02. 2011 22:14
I think that you are supposed to have a brake light fitted though

John
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: iansoady on 21.02. 2011 11:13
I think that you are supposed to have a brake light fitted though

John

I used to think that although this link  (http://www.motuk.co.uk/mcmanual_130.htm) would indicate otherwise.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: NickSR on 02.03. 2011 23:59
Hi Spyke
Spoke to my contact who is high up in the MOT world and he give chapter and verse, no such thing as a Day Time MOT, if you wish to have no lights then you would need a rear brake light and reflector.

Best of luck
Nick
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: iansoady on 03.03. 2011 15:25
According to section 13 (ie the one related to stoplights) of that link I posted above (official tester's manual):

"This [stop lamp] inspection applies to; all machines except those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or has such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked that are
. only used during daylight hours, and
. not used at times of seriously reduced visibility

If this situation occurs the vehicle presenter should be issued with a VT32 (advisory notice) recording the above."

My (admittedly 1991) version of the hard copy manual says the same.

In my experience, MoT testers often don't actually read the manual but assume they know the rules.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: A10Boy on 04.03. 2011 08:56
Regarding the insurance question,

I would seriously recommend telling insurance companies in writing of any "modification" or divergence from standard for the model insured. Obviously it won't be a problem until you wish to make a claim, but if they send an inspector to look at the damage / wreck, he will report it as modified and they WILL try to use that as a reason to declare your insurance cover null and void. Most policies have an obligation to advise the insurer of such matters and if you don't you are in breach and have given them a perfect excuse.

If it doesn't make any difference to your premiums then you haven't lost anything, if a premium goes up, at least you know you are covered in the event of a close experience with the rear end of a very expensive to repair BMW.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: cyclobutch on 04.03. 2011 12:46
My view is that for any machine of advancing years the consideration of ' "modification" or divergance (sic)' from standard becomes a ridiculous misnomer. My A10 is a bitza; it never really did exist. My MG V50 II has fitted to it whatever I can find to keep it going. I could attempt to list everything, but if I miss just a single item that could just as easily be the loophole that someone might want to use to pull the rug out from under me with.

It's just another case of modern rules only working for the norm. A bit like Road fund licence really.
Title: Re: old bike mart revelation
Post by: A10Boy on 04.03. 2011 16:56
I would imagine that an A10 built up of A10 parts an A10 engine in an A10 frame, in the eyes of an insurance company would be an A10.

I was writing in the context of modified bikes, for example running bikes with no lights on a daytime MOT. That is something the insurance companies need to know about. This morning I listened to a discussion on the BBC regarding vehicle insurance and insurance companies. The expert interviewed, who I assume knows more about this subject than most people here, stated exactly what I said below. Insurance companies can and will void a policy for the slightest reason or excuse; we have to be very careful, we have to tell them everything. We can not be at fault if we do.

If certain individuals know better or cant be bothered to write and enclose a few photos then that's up to them, it's their risk. But I hope that the point of the message was useful to the majority of members.

BTW Cyclobitch, thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake. Very kind of you.