The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: townsends20 on 06.06. 2011 18:11

Title: rocket goldstar
Post by: townsends20 on 06.06. 2011 18:11
Hi all
 does anyone out there know how many genuine rocket goldstars still around. ????
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 06.06. 2011 23:06
Probably three times as many as were built!!  *smile*

Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: chaterlea25 on 07.06. 2011 00:15
Hi All,
Thats certainly a 64000$ question  *ex* *ex* *ex* *ex* *ex*
The fakers have certainly been active even to the point of resurrecting long lost or
maybe even cloning existing examples *eek* *eek*
The history and any old paperwork are essential before parting with hard earned cash
I would be personally BEWARE of any recently (re) registered  bikes

Last year at a UK event I saw an ""RGS"" with a price tag of 11.5K£, I walked towards it but at 10 yards or more  I could see it was a fake, not even a good one!!

So Research, Research, Research, History History History,   before you buy  *conf* *conf* *conf* *conf*

HTH
John O R
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 07.06. 2011 08:49
Just to get a point over here, if I and many others like the style of the RGS and decide to spend a fortune and lots of research and effort on copying it as closely as we can or in some cases as close as they can afford, then that is to be applauded.
The RGS style is to many BSA enthusiasts and those of other marques the pinacle of BSA roadster style.
At last week's Paignton Bike night my group of friends had two very thoroughly modified A10s to RGS spec and a Goldie amongst us and compared to the attention they received from other bikers and the general public they were probably the most enjoyed, except for the occasional way out customed Harley. No one cared whether they had the correct history etc. etc. they glistened in the sunlight and were beautiful amongst a 'sea of plastic' modern superbikes.
Where it all gets twisted is when someone puts one up for sale for big money without clarifying what it actually is. Mine for example, is difficult to distinquish from a '62/'63 model but a quick look at the V5 will tell anyone that it's a '50s A10 and won't be sold for top money even though it cost top money to build, if I ever sell it that is.
I'm not enthusiastic about an owner calling a A10 with the wrong hubs and cable rear brake, but with a Goldie tank and exhaust, an RGS, but they do look nice. 'RGS styled A10' would be better.
John is right about checking what you're buying is value for money and I'm sure that he didn't want to imply that anyone with an 'RGS' is a faker.
Alan 
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: bsa-bill on 07.06. 2011 09:10
Quite agree Alan
What upsets me and lots of others is the sellers making ordinary A parts more expensive by the calculated addition of RGS in descriptions.
Buyer beware of coarse but to new members of our fraternity it can't help.

I do think there is something about a Brit twin and also something about a Brit single; so much as I love my two A's I think If I was looking at spending 11.5 K I might just go for a one lunger with a similar name ( though might have to add a bit more out of my rapidly disappearing savings)
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: chaterlea25 on 07.06. 2011 19:07
Hi Alan, Bill and All,
Well then I must be a "faker" (LOL *eek*) as my Super Rocket has been built to the style and performance of the sporty model, Like you Alan mine cost a fortune to build (even 10 years ago when it was finally finished)
I built it to represent what ""My ideal"" A10 would look like,
If I had access to a some "RGS" type parts I would have liked to have fitted them , swing arm and rear wheel etc would be very nice *ex*
So I built it with the ton weight iron wheel and standard  swing arm

Anyway a while ago I was offered a "REAL RGS" in need of total restoration  *smile* *smile*
I didnt need to be asked twice before I bought it,
It had been stored away long before the fakery began, and had a reasonable amount of history with it so I am happy with its pedigree
I must get some work done on it soon before I get too old to enjoy it  *ex* *ex* *ex*

cheers
John O R
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: NickSR on 07.06. 2011 22:36
Hi Everyone
Just to add my view with a RGS with matching numbers in mint condition being advertised by Cake Street Classic at £17,500 I will repeat that £17,500 in Junes Old Bike Mart.

I have seen the RGS and Spitfires that he has sold in the past and they are very good and well finished.

Hopfully any one thinking of buy a RGS at the above price would do some research work before hand and from a well known dealer.

Being a offered an orginal RGS at £6,000 then proceed with a view its a copy in which there appears to be some very nice copies for sale at the moment.

Regards
Nick
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Taffy on 07.06. 2011 23:31
Hi a question here,if a RGS is now worth 17.5k and a super rocket is 6k is the 11.5k difference really worth it for a few frame lugs and different type hubs?   
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 08.06. 2011 08:51
No Taffy, £17500 is over the top for most of us financially for the extra style and performance, but there are a surprising number of people to whom that kind of price is not as shocking, not to mention the possible increase in value over time. My DBD34 Gold Star has increased in value by around 50% since I sold it and we all wonder when this escalation in pricing will stall.
Originality comes with an extra price no matter what bike it is, that's what people do pay extra for, not necessarily getting a better bike to ride or look at.
A really well cared for Super Rocket is well worth up to £6000 in my opinion and a comprehensively modified one to RGS spec would be worth more, at least for the cost of the parts and work involved to do so. I reckon at today's prices anything up to £9000 would be fair for a comprehensively modified one to RGS spec.
As for a genuine RGS, I think that depends on the depth of your pocket and the level of your desire to get hold of one. I hesitate to put a figure on that. Maybe Roger Sharman has pitched the price right since he is the recognised RGS restorer and seller and has a better feel for this than most. Seems high though.
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Topdad on 08.06. 2011 10:03
Good morning everyone, I've been off line for a few days due to a virus in the works computer so just catching up. I agree the styling of a RGS "styled"A10 takes some beating ,I've always fitted chrome guards and lowish bars siamesed pipes and rev counter  just 'cause to me me thats what I like ,so if an individual's wants to go further and His/her's pocket is deep enough go for it. If you think this is only continuing the original concept that Eddie Dow had startedwith, the RGS which was in effect to use up surplus Goldie frames and  ,then specially made ones when they proved popular ,particularly to our colonial cousins in the states,engines plus odd and sod's left from the production run of the A10's when BSA withdrew the A10 . In effect a bitsa but boy ho boy  what a bitsa ,I've loved the style for over 45 yrs and always will, regards Bob hebdon.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: bsa-bill on 08.06. 2011 10:19
We all I guess know some of the differences between RGS frame and Rocket or Flash frames,  a few of you probably know ALL the differences.
But can somebody tell me if there is any difference in the main dimensions of the RGS frame, and any that would for instance improve handling ( although I've always thought A7 frames were pretty good in this respect anyway).
I have been told ( George Prew ) that taper bearing kit for A10 head stock are different to Goldie ones and leave a gap somewhere (sorry memory again) bubt I do know the ones I've fitted to the RGF do leave a bit of the bottom bearing visible ( I wonder about this)
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: townsends20 on 11.06. 2011 14:17
Hi all again.
               This is a great subject and I didn't realise there is so much passion around the rgs until acquired one in a basket!  Back in the 60s they were just another bike to be thrashed and abused when  the only waterproofing you got was out of the engine and the only use for a torque wrench would to take it for a ride to the south coast on a bank holiday! There now I am showing my age,  still I am sure I'm not the only old fart reading this post.
   How things have changed, married with five kids & four grand kids and now starting again with the passion I have always loved and thought I had lost until now (tears).
       Working as a bike mechanic in the early days and most of the rest in the motor trade, all the restorations being done by myself, enjoying every moment except when it comes to paying for parts!  and yes after 35 + years out of it I did buy some cheap rubbish, but we all learn the hard way. Anyway the bike is looking  good (see the latest photos on progress) it is a 62, one of the first 20 out of the stable and looks like it was built by Eddie Dow himself! with all original Dow parts.
               I fully intend to enjoy this bike while still can, maybe at a later date when my body tells me to give it up it might pay off the mortgage.  I would still like to find out roughly out of the 1500 or so built about how many are left, any guesses?
   Just one more point.
    One I have learned on taking on a project as expensive and time consuming as this
is you have to have a patient and understanding wife.( and she is.)

                                     Steve.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Goldy on 11.06. 2011 18:05
I don,t understand this obsession with everything being original, if it,s not then so what. As I have said before in the 60, s bikes where never original because the first thing that we did was to make them look different.  Enjoy restoring and riding and if they are not original who cares.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 11.06. 2011 18:45
Hi Steve, I would have loved to have found a '62 RGS, it would have saved me a heck of lot of work and crawling over/under one of Roger Sharman's.
Enjoy ridng it and looking at it in the garage.
I can assure you that you will have a constant stream of one particular question to answer "Is it a genuine RGS?" I'm sure you will smile when you tell them "Oh yes".

Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: bsa-bill on 11.06. 2011 19:20
Quote
As I have said before in the 60, s bikes where never original because the first thing that we did was to make them look different.

We made them different by all doing much the same thing - hence the plastic leopard skin seat covers.
If I had the know how I'd get a batch made and flog them on Ebay.

Nice bike BTW Steve
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 12.06. 2011 08:19
Quote
We made them different by all doing much the same thing - hence the plastic leopard skin seat covers.
If I had the know how I'd get a batch made and flog them on Ebay.

Ah, the leopard skin seat cover......mine was a fluffy hairy thing which lasted a few days until it rained and became a wet sponge. It made me smile to recall that.
I was checking the pressures of my 'RGS' tyres yesterday, ready for the annual 'Round Dartmoor Run' with the classic boys and to my horror spotted that the silencer was cracking across the top and the mounting bracket was close to letting go! There's always something with these old bikes but it's absolutely lashing with rain so it will probably be cancelled anyway. We have been praying for rain for a long time since the grass has tints of brown beginning to show but why did it have to rain right now, the boys will be really disappointed.
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: muskrat on 13.06. 2011 13:36
Here's one I'm watching. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BSA-Rocket-Goldstar-/200618369026?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item2eb5c96002
Cheers
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Goldy on 13.06. 2011 17:25
So if he has spent 28,000 dollars on it he will be wanting more than that for it. Hope you have your credit card ready Muskrat.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 13.06. 2011 19:57
Can't see anything wrong with it in the photos, some modern replacement parts which is to be expected. In the UK I expect it would go for somewhere from £10,000 to £15,000. Shipping and customs duty into the UK would be eye watering. I had a shock when I got a front hub from Canada.
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 13.06. 2011 22:28
I would like to know how you could spend $28000 on a restoration.
Must have built it out of new parts bought one at a time.
It sure makes my worn out RGS look like an asset to hold!

 Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Brian on 14.06. 2011 01:14
Its sometimes hard to come to grips with some of the bikes we see for sale and the prices being asked, but bikes are like any commodity, supply and demand.

The asking price for this particular one is $37,000 AUS, thats a lot of money. Also claims it cost $28,000 to restore, once again a lot of money but maybe not unrealistic. Firstly the son of the restorer is a member of this forum so maybe he could give us an insight into the costs involved in this type of restoration.

The bike could certainly have been presented better, it could have been cleaned, the tyres pumped up and a bit of work putting into routing the cables correctly.

Going back to the $28,000. We all try to do as much to our bikes as we can ourselves, however there is no doubt the finished result with any restoration is directly related to the money spent on it. So imagine if you bought this bike unrestored in generally poor condition and took it to a proffessional restorer and said restore it to "factory" spec. Where I live the average mechanical repair place charges $100 per hour for labour, there are a lot of hours involved in a resto like this one. If you dropped the tank off to a proffessional and said restore it, take the dents out, rechrome, paint and fit badges and kneepads, there goes $2000. Wheels, fit new akront rims, spokes, do the brakes etc etc, probably $1500 per wheel easily. So you see the costs can climb steeply if you are totally relying on having someone else do the work. I can see $28,000 going into this resto if you are paying someone else.

Is the bike worth $37,000 ? well we are about to find out, if it sells it is, if it doesnt sell then it isnt.

You also have to consider the funds available to some people, most of us are "normal" members of the work force with average incomes. But if you are some big company executive earning a million dollars or more a year then $37,000 is peanuts. So if you see something sold for what appears to be a ridiculous price then maybe it was bought by someone in this category who just wanted it and money didnt matter in which case that sale is not a true reflection of value.

So when you see something like this come on the market at what appears to be a ridiculous price have a think about it, maybe, just maybe its not so ridiculous. Then again maybe its some fool who thinks his bike is worth more than it really is  *dunno*
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: orabanda on 14.06. 2011 05:58
What-ever floats your boat; this is my RGS replica.

It started out as a 1960 SR

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_100_0042-1.jpg&hash=a46466f7684bf3737535cf45b9f1c0ed) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=100_0042-1.jpg)

18 months later:

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_P1030616.jpg&hash=da68281bdca649fe860f042ed65d8137) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=P1030616.jpg)

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_P1030617.jpg&hash=71264d9edcdd48ce92f0fa2d90db37d1) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=P1030617.jpg)

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_P1030623.jpg&hash=288a1f5e87f55ceac21f87cd3c220f30) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=P1030623.jpg)

It is not an RGS; it's better than that. I always describe it as a replica.

It goes like poo off a shovel, stops better than any of my other bikes, and is ridden frequently.

I could never find an RGS, so went this way. If I had been able to find one, I would have spent just as much on it, to bring it to the same standard as the replica, so the replica is much better value to me.

Originally I had clip-ons fitted, but didn't like them - not practical (comfortable) for a bike that is regularly ridden long distances.

Richard
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Brian on 14.06. 2011 08:13
Now that is a seriously nice motorcycle. The only problem I can see is that its in your shed and not mine, if you were trying to turn me green with envy, it worked  *ex* *ex* *ex*
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 14.06. 2011 08:16
Nice work Richard! Just like my project, it's well worth the effort to get the details right. There is tremendous satisfaction from getting an end result like that.
One question...I had to change the front lower engine lug to RGS type, was it already like that on the '60 SR?
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: orabanda on 14.06. 2011 08:28
No, but they are now!
I "found" a pair of an old frame, and welded them on.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Brian on 14.06. 2011 08:39
Alright then, educate the less knowledgable mortals amongst us, ie. me. Why do you have to change the engine mounts, I know a "genuine" RGS has a four lug frame by why do you need to change the standard tube bottom mounts.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: orabanda on 14.06. 2011 08:49
Why did Armstrong want to walk on the moon?
Because I wanted to have a crack at getting it "like the real thing".

However, the discerning RGS guru will be able to pick non- conforming issues with my bike, but I don't give a hoot.

I don't mislead anyone about it; it is a Super Super Rocket!

It also has Suzuki clutch, my own oil filter, modified wiring, SRM dynamo belt drive, oil seals where BSA didn't think they were necessary, Ikon shocks, modified front forks, Lightning 8" brake (little ripper!) and all the other customising tricks we all do to our A10's.
Richard
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: orabanda on 14.06. 2011 08:58
Here is another "Super" Super Rocket.

Fired it up on the week-end; will register it on Thursday, and sort out the bugs (oil leaks, etc).

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_P1040728.jpg&hash=837f7ad9f721e372ecbef9ca297e6734) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=P1040728.jpg)

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_P1040729.jpg&hash=34b708a8bc7ecc299546fee3433006e7) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=P1040729.jpg)

(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn82%2Forabanda%2Fth_P1040731.jpg&hash=16cae1ba06ba38a691176491dbac4ed7) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/?action=view&current=P1040731.jpg)
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 14.06. 2011 15:27
Alright then, educate the less knowledgable mortals amongst us, ie. me. Why do you have to change the engine mounts, I know a "genuine" RGS has a four lug frame by why do you need to change the standard tube bottom mounts.
You don't have to Brian but, if you have the parts and facilities to do it and you are interested in making as close a copy as you can, then it's just icing on the cake. It's actually one of the first places 'experts' look when they see a bike that could be an RGS. The normal front engine lugs are perfectly fine and I expect that BSA were looking for subtle differences they could build into their RGS to make it difficult to easily copy and had a few thousand of these lugs on the shelf rattling around. 
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 14.06. 2011 22:08
But, Alan,
                  The four lugs are not exclusively fitted to the RGS.

  Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 15.06. 2011 07:59
But, Alan,
                  The four lugs are not exclusively fitted to the RGS.

  Trev.
But they were for the RGS Trev.

Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 15.06. 2011 13:19
I expect that BSA were looking for subtle differences they could build into their RGS to make it difficult to easily copy 

I doubt that.  I expect they made a unique frame for the RGS for nonsensical "big company" non-reasons.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Topdad on 15.06. 2011 17:48
Hi Alan and orabanda, I admire the depth of knowledge you guys have and the dedication to do a great job, obviously you're the people to ask a question that i've always taken as true but now need to clarify if pos. I've read ,even quite recently, that the RGS started off as Eddie Dow's "baby" and that he used goldie frames complete with oilpump bulge and that even the first run from the factory was goldie framed ,this was normal BSA pactice use up everything where pos and that it was only when 1) they suddenly realised how popular these things  that they created were,   2) that maybe they could earn a fair few bob from the states so was worth building a final run of a10 based frames. So guys what's your slant on this? and please I only ask 'cause i've always had a soft spot for them and is intended in no way to deter from your fine examples, which I'd love to be able to copy, regards and best wishes Bob Hebdon. ps Alan I may see you if you still go to the Paigton bash I've got relations there and I'm hankering to ride down to see them so who knows.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 16.06. 2011 09:10
Bob, I've read various articles on this with different versions of the RGS history and to be honest I can't be absolutely sure but starting from the beginning, thinking about being in Eddy's shoes.
In my opinion it would make sense for Eddy to fit an A10 engine into a Gold Star frame because he's a performance/racer man and would be biased towards the running gear of a Goldie. I can't see Eddy using an SR as a base because of the work involved in getting decent brakes on it etc. (like the hassle we have to go through!) unless the supply of Goldies was temporarily restricted.  Even if a customer desperately wanted his SR converted it would have cost a lot due to the work involved so the owner would more likely have px'd his SR for one of Eddy's. Therefore, logically I expect the Eddy Dow originals had a Goldie lower frame kink, the Goldie tubular engine lug and shorter Goldie top frame gusset etc. etc. Anyone claiming that their RGS is an original 'Eddy' because its got a Goldie frame had better have Eddy's local shop registration plate on it or you can walk away.
BSA put their own twist on the RGS spec. when they came to produce 'their RGS' which is the spec RGSs are matched against when inspected these days together with frame number.
I have seen no believable documented evidence that BSA used Goldie frames for the initial batch of their RGSs for sale and then changed numerous details to the BSA RGS spec. we know today. Making those changes after they were on sale makes no sense at all especially when they had the unit engined bikes on the drawing board. Equally, did it make any sense for BSA to NOT use the Goldie as a base for all their RGSs and go and produce an RGS with further subtle differences for a known short production duration? I think not.
But it's BSA we talking about here so maybe............


Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Topdad on 16.06. 2011 10:27
Good morning Alan, what you say does make sense particularly your last sentence !! I can concur with that has I worked in bike sales from end '65 for 5 yrs working for Liverpools best BSA/Trumpetdealer Victor Horsman who were main retail dealers and later Cundle motors who were BSA's main wholesale dealer . The stupidity that issued from Small Heath was amazing, memo's by the sack full ,every memo sent to Cundles we got a copy of ,which was helpful but most were aimed at spares with very little emphasis on sales of bikes. I rememberthat if you didn't order by some stupid date Feb you wouldn't get bikes in june july august then in SEPTEMBER /OCTOBER you'd be offered the bikes you had wanted and now couldn't sell at a dicounted price, total nightmare so re the RGS how they produced any at all is beyond me !! Glad they did though. best wishes Bob.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: townsends20 on 16.06. 2011 15:33

 Hi Alan / Bob & All
     As you can see from my previous posts I have been in a kind of stasis for the last 35 + years regarding the classic scene until finding this rgs and then finding the forum. I am enjoying all your posts some good info. Your thoughts please, I found this bike completely striped including   crankcase, all in boxes in a friends  leaky old shed, been there for 35+ years it was his brother- in -laws bike, he had died some years back. If I had not seen it and exprest interest  it would have gone to the scrap yard! he was quite happy to let me have it ( I did'nt know it was a rgs at this time)! That was two years ago. This is what I have done so far, your opinion would  appreciated, it must have been a café racer in its time with all Eddie Dow parts most of them I have put back but not the central tank or the alloy top steering yoke I thought best to put these back to standard and it gives me handle bar options. On building the engine I  made some modifications, primary drive on dry belt, dynamo on SRM belt also SRM wet sump valve & p.r. Valve. And an external oil filter, that is the only modification that can be seen. I was thinking of selling some of the original parts to recoup some funds (about £4000 up to date) e.g. the clutch & cush and parts replaced that only needed re- chroming or do you think I should keep them as part of the package. I did manage to find all the Eddie Dow receipts and many others relating to this bike. Once again I fully intend to get some time on it. Should be fun after 30+ years, still its just like riding a bike, (isnt it?) Waiting for a carb and that should be it!!!!!!!!!
   ps. I have started to talk to it now! *smiley4*
                                        Steve
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 16.06. 2011 16:30
Steve, impressive documentation!!!
We hate pointing out things which are not 'strictly correct' for fear of setting off criticism for pointing them out, if you know what I mean, but you did ask.
The oil filter position is novel but will detract from the RGS image, why not fit it away in the tool box? I certainly applaud fitting an oil cooler if long'ish high speed runs are contemplated. With an RGS cam and high compression the oil gets very hot otherwise.
The inner primary looks like the '50s version which was short where it comes over the gearbox sprocket, the RGS version extended further rearwards.
The engine plates look like aluminium, which I used on my Gold Star but they are not 'strictly correct' for an RGS.
Looking at the previous photos you posted, it seems you have mounted the rear sets directly to the frame mounting point but there would normally have been kinked plates between the footrests and the mount points.
The outer primary cover also looks like a '50s cover.
The headlight shell looks like a modern non RGS version, but if the RGS one was in the bits that came with the bike and is still in your possession don't throw it away no matter what condition it's in, they are virtually impossible to find and fetch silly money.
Regarding the top yoke you mentioned, the RGS top yoke did not have a hole for a steering lock e.g. Gold Star type, but I don't know what you fitted.
The front mudguard is mounted in the Gold Star manner, i.e. separate straps under the mudguard bolted through the mudguard. The RGS straps were part of the mudguard and so no bolt heads showed on it's outer face.
If you aren't using clip ons then RGSs would be fitted with chromed ears for the headlamp. With clip ons, instead of fork gaiters there would be black tubes covering the fork springs. You could consider doing what the Motor Cycle magazine showed in their 22 Nov '62 road test and use upturned touring bars, that's what I did.
Hope this helps, I will go away now and put my tin hat on!
Alan 
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Topdad on 16.06. 2011 16:54
Hi Steve, all I would say is that this is the stuff of dreams ...well at least my dreams..... . that would be being asked to clear out a shed of bike "remains" and they turn out to be DBD34 CLUBMANS OR VeloThruxton and not least theres def an RGS or even all 3 plus dare I say a '68 Bonnie and now I've heard from someone who it actually happened to ...I think I feel the need for some of Muskrats Pills and a darkened padded cell  so I can slow my imagination down !!! Seriously it's great that you're returning it to the road i hope you have a good few years enjoying it ,i'm just off to ask permission to look in all the sheds in my area .... you never know your luck , i could be some time ,Best wishes Bob hebdon.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 16.06. 2011 17:06
Bob, I've heard of an ancient Ducati in a shed in the area which will be investigated by yours truly post haste.
ps I'm also a Ducati nut case as well as a BSA one!
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: townsends20 on 16.06. 2011 18:06
Hi Alan
              No need for the tin hat mate, I need to get it right, appreciated the input some things I can't do anything about due to to much being spent to date I did check your oil filter out good I wish I had seen it before I will see to that at a later date. Were did you put the reg box? You might be right about the primary but I know there hard to come by most got cut down, I have looked! Can you post a photo of the rear sets so I can see for myself. The headlamp shell that came with it I think is from  another model but I still have it, as regarding the top yoke I have the original as I don't think the superleggera yoke ever got fitted (looks new)  and I don't think I have a chance of getting the right front mudguard. I got the headlamp brackets and the gaiters early in the build I can live with them. I have got ace bars on at the moment, I have also got some touring bars and already decided to use them a bit more comfort.
                      Thanks again. Steve
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 17.06. 2011 01:40
Alan,
       Have a good look at the 1962 road test of the RGS.
The inner primary case appears to be a "short" one but mine has a "long" one.
I have a long one fitted to my '55 Flash and another ready for the '54 RR.
Short ones with a hole drilled in the raised section would likely have been on a full width hub bike.
The muffler fitted is the long cigar shaped item as was fitted to mine and the other two which were bought new in my area.
Two had 190mm front brakes and one [mine] had 8"
My '62 SR has a four lug frame as do several others that I know of.
The four lug frame was also used on the South Australian Police bikes but had a steering lock and FWH yokes.
I know of at least one of these that became a RGS replica, probably the easiest one to do as all of the hard work was already done by the factory.
I have had my RGS since about 1970 when they were nothing special.
Even at that young age it had been modified with a newer chromed headlight and tear-drop badge petrol tank after an accident. Luckily I got the tank and since had it repaired.
I have a headlight shell with a plug but don't have the mating bit.

Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 17.06. 2011 09:24
Hi Trev, this is a fascinating subject.
The mating plug/socket for the RGS headlight is nowhere to be obtained these days. Believe it or not but I had one complete with original loom some 7/8 years ago but the plug/socket rubber had badly perished over the years and I threw it away, thinking that they must still be available...idiot!
Yes, I had spotted the older style inner primary on the Motor Cycle test bike, the mind boggles as to why it's on there in November 1962. The '62 model SRs with full width hubs and RGSs I've seen have the long primary inner. BSA using up old stock again?
Also the silencer is the cigar type, as you say, which they might have fitted because it is in touring spec. and not expected to take bends like the clubman's spec riders. To support this theory the test bike is in full touring trim with non rear set footrests which would have restricted cornering. I'm only guessing here since I had to 'bash' a tapered flat on my cigar type silencer back in the old days, more or less similar to the taper on the Goldie type silencer, to avoid road contact when cornering enthusiastically with rear sets. I don't recommend the cigar type for the clubman's spec with rear sets.
In 21 Jun '62 Motor Cycle the BSA advert shows an RGS with rear sets and Goldie silencer, much more sensible. It also doesn't have clip ons but an upturned handlebar, gaiters and chrome headlamp ears.
It's common knowledge that you could have either an 8" Goldie or a 190mm front brake, I'm not sure about other options, anyone know for sure any others and were export versions the same as home market models?
So, one other outstanding question now is whether BSA actually sold RGSs in full touring spec as per the November '62 test bike...or am I getting too deep into this????
Pass the straight jacket someone....
Cheers
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 17.06. 2011 09:36
Hi Alan
               Can you post a photo of the rear sets so I can see for myself.

Steve, hope this photo of the part which mounts the rear sets helps.
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: townsends20 on 17.06. 2011 13:40
Thanks Alan
    It all makes sense now as it seemed a bit close I will have another look in the boxes with the other bike ( don't get excited it is only a 250 mz)  if not any  idea were I can get some?
      Have a look at the headlamp that came with it what's it off ?  The lens is original Lucas but badly scratched I might try and polish them out sometime. The shell is in good nick.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 17.06. 2011 14:10
Thanks Alan
    It all makes sense now as it seemed a bit close I will have another look in the boxes with the other bike ( don't get excited it is only a 250 mz)  if not any  idea were I can get some?
      Have a look at the headlamp that came with it what's it off ?  The lens is original Lucas but badly scratched I might try and polish them out sometime. The shell is in good nick.
You should be able to get the rear set hangers from the usual BSA bits suppliers e.g. Lyford Classics, George Prew (his telephone manner sounds abrupt but he's as good as gold really), etc etc they are the same for the rear sets on Gold Stars as well. If you need their phone numbers, let me know. Watch out though you will also need the fancy pins which go into the frame lugs and they are different left from right to give clearance for the rear brake pedal assembly.
The headlamp is not familiar to me, but I've led a sheltered life!
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 18.06. 2011 02:07
Alan,
          The ozzie RGSs were touring spec. I reckon they look better than the clubman. much neater than the ugly Goldie headlight brackets and naked forks.
Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 18.06. 2011 08:12
Alan,
          The ozzie RGSs were touring spec. I reckon they look better than the clubman. much neater than the ugly Goldie headlight brackets and naked forks.
Trev.
I agree the headlamp area looks better without the Goldie brackets. In fact my Goldie in the late '50s was converted over to get rid of the brackets. Not considered good form to do this to a Goldie in those days though.
Can you recall which silencer was fitted on the ozzie RGS versions?
Alan
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: Flatboy 1950 on 18.06. 2011 10:34
Hi Chaps , There is a Rocket Gold Star for sale here in S.A.
Engine # DA10R8418.
Frame # GA10.921
 Although it is not a barnfind , it is on this website  www.barnfinds.co.za
Price is just below 12,000 pounds ....
There is also a DB34 GS for sale too.

Regards , Flatboy.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 18.06. 2011 15:13
It's interesting that he has priced the RGS the same as the DBD34.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 19.06. 2011 00:33
Alan,
             My RGS had the cigar muffler as did the other two that I knew of.
I suspect that this was standard on all of them as the "goldie" muffler was listed as an optional "track silencer", I would imagine it was not acceptable to the "authorities".
When I restored mine back in the 80s, I had a goldie muffler made as I liked the look.
Now that everyone has one, I have now got an original shape one for the next go around.
My friend has also fitted the original to his RGS. Sounds better than the goldie one but no twitter.
I don't know whether the factory RGS goldie mufflers twittered but the ones made here certainly did.

  Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: bsa-bill on 19.06. 2011 08:47
Quote
I don't know whether the factory RGS goldie mufflers twittered

Mine don't and it's almost  RGS engine spec.
I was told by a Goldie owner the twitter is down to valve overlap on the single, doesn't appear the same on a twin
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 19.06. 2011 14:33
Quote
I don't know whether the factory RGS goldie mufflers twittered

Mine don't and it's almost  RGS engine spec.
I was told by a Goldie owner the twitter is down to valve overlap on the single, doesn't appear the same on a twin
Funny you should mention that but a mate of mine with a Goldie didn't have the twitter but his Royal Oilfield fitted with a Goldie silencer did. He swopped them over and now his Goldie twitters and his RE doesn't. There's clearly more to it than just valve overlap it seems.
We investigated, as you do, and found differences with the internals between the two silencers. They both had the perforated tube running offset down the side taper but varied at the exhaust end of the tube. We can't recall where the one that twitters came from.
One of my RGS silencers, the one from Cake Street Classics, has a perforated short tube concentric with the silencer bore which doesn't reach the end of the body as far as the two just mentioned and another I've just tried on the RGS has a perforated tube running centrally right to the end. Neither of these has any hint of a twitter.
That's 4 different internals for a start. I'll start a topic in 'technical' to see if anyone knows who sells Goldie silencers which twitter.
Alan

Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: trevinoz on 19.06. 2011 23:21
The twitter is created by the internal arrangement of the baffles.
A Mate of mine has perfected the method. He made my muffler.
  Trev.
Title: Re: rocket goldstar
Post by: alanp on 20.06. 2011 08:08
The twitter is created by the internal arrangement of the baffles.
A Mate of mine has perfected the method. He made my muffler.
  Trev.
Trev, this confirms our result that it's primarily silencer design, any chance of a description/sketch or anything from your mate which would point us in the right direction? My friends Goldie silencer from off his RE which twitters is too difficult to see inside with any certainty and we don't want to cut it up since we don't know where it was bought to get a replacement, but it's generally described as I mentioned above.
Alan