The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: Hubie on 27.09. 2011 23:21

Title: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 27.09. 2011 23:21
G'day Chaps,

Was wondering if anyone here is running a 6V +earth LED tail lamp and what difference it made to the rest of the lighting.  I know that LED's have much less current draw and are brighter.  I would go down the ALTON alternator path but I can't afford it.

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: a101960 on 28.09. 2011 11:07
Dave, I long ago changed the stop/tail lamp for an LED unit, and have changed the speedo, and rev counter lamps to LED's too. Recently I have changed the pilot/parking lamp in the same way. Only the headlamp remains as a conventional filament lamp (45/40 halogen) and that is extremely bright and well within the capabilities of the dynamo. I would personally recommend that you fit a DVR2 regulator for optimum voltage control. The Alton has very little advantage over a dynamo at low speed. I have converted to 12v because with a DVR2 it is easy to do. The main advantage of doing this is lower losses through the wiring harness. The E3L dynamo works very well with an electronic regulator and is more than capable of supplying enough current to provide decent lighting especially so if you have LED tail and stop lamps.

John
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: iansoady on 28.09. 2011 11:17
I would go down the ALTON alternator path but I can't afford it.

Cheers,
Dave.

When I bought my Velo it had an Alton fitted and I hated it - really noisy and the regulator allowed the battery to feed back and go flat unless it was switched off. I changed it for a dynamo / V-REG2 set up which was far better.

I understand a lot of people have had problems with Altons although I believe the warranty / after sales service is good.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: trevinoz on 29.09. 2011 01:02
Dave,
            What wattage headlight are you running?
For 6V system, 30/24 W is required. If you go higher, the generator will struggle.
If you do a lot of night riding, perhaps you should go 12 volt.
You can run higher wattage but the down side is that the generator doesn't cut in until higher in the rev range unless you rewind.

  Trev.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 07.10. 2011 01:26
Hi Trev,

Been very busy with work and haven't had the chance to check my lighting.  Will take a peek tonight but I'm pretty sure its either 30 or 24.  I have a DVR2 reg so I can convert to 12 volt very easy (have the bulbs lying around too) and see how it goes.  anyone had good experiences with the DVR2 running a 12 volt system?  Sounds like it might be a good idea to get the SRM belt drive for my dynamo to speed it up a little.

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Brian on 07.10. 2011 07:35
Hubie I have one running 12v with a DVR2 and it works very well. I am using the standard generater with the chain drive. The difference in revs required to charge is minimal. Other than having brighter lights you wouldnt know there was any difference.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 07.10. 2011 08:47
Thanks Brian,

That gives me a bit of confidence.  Trev, I have a 35/35w halogen style globe in there and have switched to an old fashioned bulb 24/30w.  I now have to see why I don't have power to the bulb holder though!

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 07.10. 2011 09:59
Check the wiring very carefully particularly if a handle bar hi-low switch has been fitted.
One of my favourite "tricks" is to pop a volt meter across the headlamp plug.
Want to guess how many bikes show 4 Volts or less ?
A very small voltage drop at the globe will cause a very significant reduction in the out put from the globe.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 07.10. 2011 10:42
Will check it out, have had problems at the headlight switch before and sorted them.  Will start there and check the high/low switch too and work from there.

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 07.10. 2011 13:36
Got the headlamp working fine again now.  The bulb is halogen 35/35w.  What is recommended and will finding a +earth tail lamp bulb help the headlamp?  Also, anyone know where I can get 12 or 6v + earth tail lamp bulbs or is switching to - earth as simple as switching battery terminals?

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: muskrat on 07.10. 2011 21:15
G'day Hubbie,
                  I don't think globes care which way they get their juice. Battery, dynamo and reg on the other hand !
Cheers
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 07.10. 2011 22:16
G'day Jim,

The LED globes will care, I've tried 12 volt tail lamp from my suzuki in my super meteor which is +earth and it doesn't work.  Current only goes one way.

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 08.10. 2011 00:05
Yep it is as simple as swapping over the battery leads.
You may or may not have to flash the dynamo.
The regulator is ( or should be ) insulated from the bike which is why there is a "E" terminal.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: chaterlea25 on 08.10. 2011 00:22
HI Dave,
You dont say which regulaor your bike has
Electronic ones are either pos or neg earth, reversing the battery will fry them *eek*
If its a mech reg, just reflash the field to suit the new polarity
HTH
John O R
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 08.10. 2011 02:18
Forgot completly forgot about that!  VregII is +earth only!
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Gavin on 09.10. 2011 14:24
I just stuck a small 12v battery in the toolbox, and ran a self contained system to do brakes, tail light and indicators. as it draws such a small amount of power, i just charge it up on a charger once in a while. can send pix if you are interested. needs a bit of wiring, and a couple of switches... but with shrink tape and the like these days, the job can be pretty discreet.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: bsa-bill on 09.10. 2011 14:44
Hi Gavin if you would be so kind, I'd like a pic of that set up and dimensions of the battery and supplier for a completely different reason
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 12.10. 2011 05:46
G'day all,

Have ordered one of Goffy's LED lightboards for the tail lamp, hopefully this will push a bit more juice through the headlamp.  Have also got a 6v LED globe for the speedo and a 12v +earth Tail light for the Super Meteor.  Will re post once they're all set up.

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Gavin on 12.10. 2011 14:24
Hi Bill here's a pix or 2 of the 12v battery. I just tucked it away in the tool box, alongside an oil filter Orabanda installed for me.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 17.10. 2011 08:43
I've taken things a little step further today too.  Am still waiting on the LED light board for the tail lamp and a 6v instrument bulb.  I had a 5w instrument bulb, 21w tail lamp bulb and a 35w headlamp bulb.  That makes 61watts!  The LED's should help I hope.  I have bought a 7 inch halogen (h4 bulb type) semi sealed lens/reflector which should distribute the light alot better than the old glass and reflector does.  Coming with it from across the pond I have managed to find a 35/35w h4 type bulb to go with it.

I shall report on the results as soon as I have all the bits installed.

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 17.10. 2011 09:34
  I had a 5w instrument bulb, 21w tail lamp bulb and a 35w headlamp bulb.  That makes 61watts! 

No brake lamp?
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 17.10. 2011 11:41
That included the brake lamp!!
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: wilko on 18.10. 2011 00:34
Your brakelight isn't on all the time so that doesn't count.So now you have 20 spare watts!
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 18.10. 2011 06:32
I just fitted the Paul GOFF LED light board and a 6v instrument LED.  Am going to ride to work in the morning (will be dark) and see what the difference up front is.  Now just waiting on the H4 halogen so I can fit my new front lens.

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 18.10. 2011 09:25
That included the brake lamp!!

As Wilko says, subtract 21W, then add 5W for the tail lamp and you don't have a problem, until you fit Boyer ignition.

I doubt that the bulb in your speedo is as big as 5W.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: cyclobutch on 18.10. 2011 11:43
Sill running mine on +earth 6v. I've got the Goffy LED light board in the back, and LED pilot light up front with one of his Halogen main bulbs. The pilot stays on with the headlight btw. I'm still running a std bulb in the speedo as I like the soft light it gives.

I'd have to say that my headlight is quite effective. I used the cheapest wiring harness I could find on fleabay and then remade the connections with bullets. Thicker wiring for the headlight with it's own earth strap.

Given that I'm passing the juice through a pattern copy of the main switch on the headlight, and a two bob matchbox hi/lo on the left bar the only other improvement would be to cut in some 6v relays I reckon.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 20.10. 2011 08:17
Well I am running a full set of LED's now and they work brilliantly.  I still don't get a great spread of light from the headlamp but I suspect this is because it is very old and the reflector is faded a bit as well as the glass becoming a little frosty.  Can anyone recommend the best reflector/glass setup to use?

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: bsa-bill on 20.10. 2011 09:48
The halogen bulb with BPF base gives a good light  but rather peculiar beam, more a ring of light than a beam, it always draws a comment from my MOT guy, I think the bulb ends up either to far into or away from the reflector, if that makes sense
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: cyclobutch on 20.10. 2011 16:29
As I think I brought up somewhere here before I'm using a NOS Wipac unit. Both dipped and high beams are great, they're just too far apart. I either have dipped showing up the front mudguard or high beam bringing in flights from nearby Stansted.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 20.10. 2011 21:11
That's rather interesting.  I'm looking for something in between!  I have picket up a modern reflector in 7 inch made for halogen h4 bulbs and have a 35/35w bulb to suit on the way, if that doesn't work well enough, I have my eye on a sealed beam which is a 45/35w.

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 26.10. 2011 10:56
I just went for a night ride with my new semi sealed beam h4 assembly with a 35/35w bulb in it.  An amazing difference with a nice clean lens and reflector.  I can now see where I'm going.  I might just search now for a slightly higher wattage bulb and fit a belt drive dynamo kit to it.  Can't think of anything left to do with her now, she's going very nice!

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Dynamo Regulators Mike on 26.10. 2011 14:31
Dave
It is good to hear about your improved lighting. It is great to be able to see well and be confident it will stay that way. I agree you will improve matters further with a 45W headlight. A timing belt dynamo drive that will give the extra speed helps to reduce voltage fluctuations in the system. This in turn gives better lamp / bulb / globe life and also less stress on the battery so it should last longer as well (and less topping up if conventional type).
Cheers
Mike

P.S. DRL can help with both of these items as well (as the DVR2)
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 27.10. 2011 02:48
Thanks Mike,

Just need to find a place that does p43t bulb bases in 45w!

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 01.11. 2011 09:20
Well I'm still stuffing around with the headlamp.  I got a delivery today of BPF 18w/18w bulbs (one was already broken  *angry*) but after putting the good one in and comparing it to the brand new H4 lens with 35/35w bulb, the beam on the 18w with the old lens seems brighter.  Am going to go for a ride to confirm, and hope the beam is aimed better.  I'm wondering if it's because the H4 might be designed for a car, and that the black tip on the end of the H4 bulb restricts the dispertion of the light.

Will report back and see what it's like.

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 01.11. 2011 10:02
The best 6V light I have found was an old VW kombi reflector and the modern halogen replacement globe.
Even the original ( golf ball ) globe was substantially better then the Lucas pre-focus.
The VW reflector went straight into the Lucas rim & shell.
The globes were 35/45
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 01.11. 2011 23:39
After having a good look at my old BPF semi sealed beam, it was no good.  Reflector faded and glass stained.  Have ordered a new one and can play with BPF 30/24w bulb and 35/35w halogen when it comes.  It also will have a 6v LED pilot light.

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 22.11. 2011 03:05
Got the new headlamp and a
30/24w bulb in there.  Goes very well now.  Much better lighting, not as good as 12v, but alot better than what I had.  6v pilot light works a treat too so now the only non LED on the bike is the headlamp.  I have also just purchased a dynamp belt drive kit from dynamo regulators which claims a 20% increase in RPM.  This will definately help as some of my night riding is done at 35-50mph.  Belt life is stated to be 30,000 miles so I doubt I will ever need to replace it.

Cheers,
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 30.12. 2011 06:51
Finally had a chance to ride the bike at night with the dynamo regulators belt drive (+20% speed) kit in.  Massive difference!  35/35w globe, can sit on about 35mph with full lighting and see much more about!

Happy I don't need to go 12v now.  Last thing to do is fit a dry belt drive kit to the primary.

Cheers
Hubie.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: muskrat on 30.12. 2011 08:48
 G'day Hubie,
                  great you've got it sorted. Are you going blinkers as well?
 I need my 12 volt as I do more than  35MPH up my driveway *eek*
 Cheers
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Hubie on 30.12. 2011 09:39
G'day Musky,

No blinkers mate, I have 6volt LED's from Goffy all round and just the headlamp.  I do wish though that someone would make a 45w bpf bulb though!  How are you doing nowadays after your nasty stack mate?
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 30.12. 2011 11:23
If you have a steady hand you can try the trick that a lot of vintage & veteran riders use.
Use a Dremel tool with a cut off wheel and remove the reflector from a Lucal headlamp.
You are saving the glass for an "original look".
Now down to your local oriential bike wreckers and get a headlamp from them.
Do the same with it but this time you are saving then reflector.
A dollop of your favourite silicon and you have a "new" headlamp that will take modern globes, provide good light but look original.
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: Dynamo Regulators Mike on 30.12. 2011 11:59
Finally had a chance to ride the bike at night with the dynamo regulators belt drive (+20% speed) kit in.  Massive difference!  35/35w globe, can sit on about 35mph with full lighting and see much more about!

Happy I don't need to go 12v now.  Last thing to do is fit a dry belt drive kit to the primary.

Cheers
Hubie.

Glad to hear the dynamo belt drive is a success, Hubie. Good to be able to see the way ahead  *eek*
More riding less fettling the 'lectrics.
Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: LED's
Post by: LJ. on 30.12. 2011 18:44
Quote
If you have a steady hand you can try the trick that a lot of vintage & veteran riders use.
Use a Dremel tool with a cut off wheel and remove the reflector from a Lucal headlamp.
You are saving the glass for an "original look".
Now down to your local oriential bike wreckers and get a headlamp from them.
Do the same with it but this time you are saving then reflector.
A dollop of your favourite silicon and you have a "new" headlamp that will take modern globes, provide good light but look original.

What a brilliant idea!