The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Frame => Topic started by: Gonemad on 06.10. 2011 15:52

Title: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 06.10. 2011 15:52
Could somebody with a RGS let me have the following information?

I am using the company www.classictransfers.co.uk as my reference.

On the rear light 'box' does the transfer show:
a) The three rifles with the words BSA 650 Twin (BSA 6070)
b) The three rifles with the words BSA 650cc (BSA 6096)
c) The three rifles with the words BSA (BSA 6060)
d) The three rifles with the words BSA, with a line above and below the font (BSA 6060)

..... with the words Rocket Gold Star underneath the right one from the above four ((BSA 6862)

Also, do the words Made in England (BSA 6564) appear on both front frame down tubes, or only on the offside - right as you face forward, downtube.

And finally, what transfer should display on the toolbox?

The correct information would be very much appreciated.

Angus
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: trevinoz on 06.10. 2011 21:24
Angus,
              There is some conjecture as to what was on the tail light bracket.
I have gone with the piled arms with the Rocket Gold Star beneath, simply because I like it.
The "Made In England" is on the off side only.
The tool box and oil tank have the piled arms with garter. Some of these on the market are shockers with terrible colours.
Also the oil tank has "Oil Level" transfer.

  Trev.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Beezageezauk on 07.10. 2011 09:38
Angus,

Take note that there are two types of coloured transfer for the oil tank and toolbox.  The early one (up to 1953) has "BSA Cycles Ltd" around the top and the later one (the one that you want) has "BSA Motorcycles Ltd" on it.

As Trev says, some of them have terrible colours compared to the originals and I would suggest that you acquired yours from the BSA Owners' Club.  In fact, Malcolm Hawkins, their transfer officer should be able to answer your questions.  Contact him at transfers@bsaownersclub.co.uk

Beezageezauk.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 07.10. 2011 10:23
Thanks Trev and Ray

I will now take contact with the BSA Owners Club to see if I can order them that way.

Good comment regarding the terrible colours.  With these bikes now 50 years old there cannot be many left with the original transfers still legible so I suppose it does now come to a fair guess or, hopefully, the Owners Club will have the accurate information.

Good input boys.  Thanks again.

Angus
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Pilgrim on 11.10. 2011 21:00
Hi Angus,
Found this on the Vintage Motor Cycle Club's website.
Item.1918
 B.S.A.Rr.No,Pl.Brk: Gold Rocket Gold Star with Piled Arms, 42x75, 1960?s  £3.50  Each 

BSAOC. Handbook.
Transfer No; 025 Gold Piled Arms. No. Plate Bridge. Pre'63. 20x55  £1.50.
      "       " ; 108 Rocket Gold Star. Rear No. Plate. RGS. 20x45  £2.50.

Also spoke to George Prew some time ago, he seemed to think that the RGS transfer goes
between the No. Plate Bridge and the Dualseat. Didn't look right on mine (too small).
Hope this might help. I stuck(sic) with the VMCC version. Looks o.k. anyway.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 12.10. 2011 14:06
Thanks Geoff

I will have a look at the website you mention.
Cake Street Classics also have transfers and as I am about to order some new parts from them I will have a look at their offerings when I collect my new goodies.

Nice looking bike btw,

Angus
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: alanp on 12.10. 2011 16:02

Cake Street Classics also have transfers and as I am about to order some new parts from them I will have a look at their offerings when I collect my new goodies.

Angus
It must be nice to be close enough to visit suppliers like Cake Street. Down here in the far SW we're a long way from such places.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 13.10. 2011 19:47
Trev, ""Made In England" is on the off side only." 

My potential transfer supplier, a highly respected RGS restorer, has told me that the Made in England transfer is on both down tubes. What to do - what to do?

Ray, I did send a mail to Malcolm Hawkins at the BSA Owners Club but he did not reply, probably because I am not yet a member.  I must put that right soon.

Good post Pilgrim.  Thanks for the research.  All replies appreciated.

Angus.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: trevinoz on 13.10. 2011 21:35
Angus,
                I have never seen "Made In England" on both sides of any bike unless put there by owner.
I could be wrong in this case but we need an untouched example to see either way.

  Trev.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: wilko on 13.10. 2011 22:48
You might have to find an original still in crate example to still find transfers intact!
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 21.10. 2011 11:28
Just to conclude this, I contacted the BSA Owners Club who have, as many of you might already know, a Transfers Officer... Malcolm.

I asked him the question in the same manner as my first post, 06.10.11, and received the following information.  I assume that the Ref given is a BSA Owners Club reference for ordering.

"Our transfers are based on original factory ones, that we have in our records, and
are as follows:
On the rear light 'box' the transfer should be,
a) the three rifles with the words BSA 650 Twin, ref #105.
Rocket Gold Star is a separate transfer, ref #108, and is ?underneath? the three rifles with the words BSA 650 Twin.
Strictly speaking I don't think Made in England, ref 057 was used until the
late 60's/early 70's but if you do use them they are on the right side down tube only.

Toolbox/oil tank BSA motor cycles ref #027

Malcolm."

That certainly answers the question from me and it is interesting to note the remark concerning the date for the Made in England on the right hand side of the frame only...



I am still looking for a crated one Wilco.  Should be fairly easy don't you think....?
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Beezageezauk on 21.10. 2011 13:35
Heyup Angus,

Pleased that you got your transfer question answered in the end.

Next step....transfers eh??

Beezageezauk.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 21.10. 2011 16:02
Hiya Ray

Er well, not quite.. but nearly there.  Stalled for a while awaiting the funds to build up for the new chrome mudguards and chain cover to replace the ones that rusted cosmeticaly, and chrome the rear brake plate, and new tires and petrol pipes, an Altette horn (how CAN they be so expensive?), and the transfers of course, and then...... go..... 
I look forward to it.

Angus.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: trevinoz on 22.10. 2011 06:18
Angus,
           The Transfers Officer should really know his job a little better!
The transfer in question was definitely applied on post 1960 frames and I have seen a well weathered one on a frame from 1958/9. Original? Who knows.
As to the Altette value, if you can find one, it is usually in very poor condition and takes many hours and dollars to bring back to "as new".

  Trev.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Gonemad on 22.10. 2011 10:46
Hi Trev

Thanks for the reply.  I am in contact with a man who restores Rocket Gold Stars as a part of his business and his bikes are beautiful, but only for lottery winners.  He states that the RGS should have the Made in England transfer on both sides of the frame and applies them in that manner to his restorations.  At the moment I think that I will go for one only, on the right hand down tube.
The same man will be supplying the new guards and tires, just as soon as the front mudguard arrives in stock.

Point taken regarding the Altette horn and the time and money required to restore them.  I'm afraid that I have to own up to a certain tendency to think back fifty years to my Shooting Star and a gallon of petrol for two shillings.... and so on. 
Let me have another go... 1962, RGS £350, today £ lots.  1962, my income £1500 per year, today £.... OK, I'm getting there....

Angus
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: BSA_54A10 on 28.10. 2011 13:22
Transfers other than the oil tank & tool box lid were oft applied by the dealer so there can be some variations in what and where.
We have some one owner bikes in the club and none of them have 2 made in England stickers on the frame.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: KeithJ on 25.02. 2014 19:40
Can anyone tell me the location of the "min level" on a 59 SR? 

How can I ensure the lines are "horizontal" when they are being fitted with the tank off the bike?

Thanks

Keith
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: trevinoz on 25.02. 2014 19:50
Keith,
             It is "OIL LEVEL", not "MINIMUM LEVEL".
You could scale the location from an original photograph or wait until someone measures theirs but they may not be correct.
It is a bit tricky getting the transfers right on the oil tank and toolbox, especially the "stick-ons".
I do it by eye and live with the consequences.
Trev.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Billybream on 25.02. 2014 20:04
Tried to scale from original pictures etc, I used 2" from top straight edge of tank, and its looks about right
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: KeithJ on 25.02. 2014 21:02
Thanks for the replies.  I have read different views of whether there was a min level as well as a max level.  Where can a find a definitive photo of a 59 SR?  Thanks
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: a10gf on 25.02. 2014 21:24
Quote
Where can a find a definitive photo of a 59 SR?
Maybe something can be found here > http://bsa.hailwood.com/
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: duTch on 26.02. 2014 03:58

 Why not just fill it with the correct amount, and measure down from the hole to oil level, then do the same on outside....??
 Can't see it serves any real practical purpose anyway, other than a rough guide..??
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: trevinoz on 26.02. 2014 20:50
I had a look through Bacon's restoration book and original pictures show what appears to be "oil level", certainly not "minimum oil level".
I think that the plunger oil tanks used the minimum decal.

Trev.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: Billybream on 27.02. 2014 19:41
Just checked through Pitmans book on BSA Twins, which was first released in 1960, which quotes the following - "Inspect the oil level  and top up to about one inch of the oil-return orifice. The minimum safe oil level is indicated on the outside of the oil tank"
"Never allow the oil level to fall below the oil level mark on the outside of the tank. When replenishing the oil tank, do not fill the tank more than about one inch below the top of the tank, otherwise some oil might seep from the filler cap. It would also render difficult the proper observance of oil flowing back from the engine into the tank"
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: KeithJ on 01.03. 2014 18:16
Getting there.  Just need some idea of where the Made in England transfer should be located.  I guess it is on the outside of the the rh side down tube.  Does it read upwards and where does it start or end?
Thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: BVSR on 02.03. 2014 20:19
Hi Keith

In this picture You can see the original 1958 A10SR US model.

Markku
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: KeithJ on 02.03. 2014 20:42
Brilliant!  Thanks for the photo.  I hope to get the transfers fitted tomorrow. 
Interesting it is on a '58.  I got the transfers from the VMCC and was told "Made in England" was only used '60 onwards.
ATB
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: BVSR on 03.03. 2014 06:49
I think maybe BSA used those transfers earlier on U.S. models.
Title: Re: Transfers
Post by: KeithJ on 04.03. 2014 17:13
Thanks for all the posts.  Have now applied all the transfers and I am happy with the results.  Just need to "varnish" them.