The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: shuswapkev on 12.08. 2012 10:51

Title: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 12.08. 2012 10:51

  i have a bunch of loose parts all over the shed... a10 and a7...and i think i can put a bike together...and i am hopin i can get a bit of help sorting out the parts... i have a crank and rods...the alu rods are marked 67-270 r1r1r ??
the crank is a dynamo crank...threaded on the drive  end..

i have a timing side case a dynamo model.(all  3) cant find any numbers on the crankcase...just the centre case 67-285

what should i look for in a drive side case... i understand that a7 and a10 use the same bottom end...??   if thats the case i really dont care if i finish up with a 650 in a a7 crankcase...for one thing...far cheaper rego and ins...

i have 2 heads..both are 73 mm one is a small fin and the other a large fin...

what should i look for in a cylinder block..

i am not concerned about building a hot rod engine...just getting one up and going would be terrfic..so... once up and going..improvements will happen...

what should i look for in clutches???

i am in southern queensland if anybody has anything available
also have some extra long stroke parts... y and a z motor
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: duTch on 12.08. 2012 11:05
Gidday Kev,
                I'm in Brissy, these days, from Sunny coast, could be wrong as often am, but looking at your email I'd guess you're Kilcoy way??

 Can I suggest(I will anyway), that maybe throw all the bits on the floor in the sort of perspective that they'd be on an exploded view, (ie engine bits together, wheels, g-box's, )and take a photo or ten, I'm sure you'd have a whole bunch of help.
   And I'd be happy to go for a jaunt and throw in my limited knowledge if you need??

Cheers, duTch
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: RichardL on 12.08. 2012 14:10
Kev,

How are you doin' with parts books, manuals and other reference materials? It's probably reasonable to guess that the bulk of parts came from the year and model of the crankcase. What's the number stamped near the top of the crankcase(s?). Do you have the rest of the bike? As Dutch points out, a bunch of photos would really get the ball rolling.

Dutch,

Couldn't understand how you ID'd Kilcoy (never hear of it) from Kev's email, but "linv" on Aussie Google brought up Linville right away. Proving again, there is no place to hide.

Richard L.
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: Goldy on 12.08. 2012 14:32
I built an A10 from bits and it can be very frustrating, but it can be done. If you measure the con rods the A10 centres  are 6.468" the A7 bore is 66 mm and the A10 70 mm so don't know where the 73 comes from. The engine number should be stamped on the left hand side just below the barrel flange you can find all the engine and frame numbers listed by year on the BSA owners club web site. you will find manuals here on the forum and you can download a parts book from Draganfly. http://www.draganfly.co.uk/index.html
barrels are difficult to find and some resort to sleeving old ones, but there are some still about.
All the best with it
Godly
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 12.08. 2012 22:06
thanks heaps for the quick replays..
try again here...
 my last post was rejected as ...toooooooo big???

any way...the 73 measures the inside of the chamber...i have 2 a7 heads..round and square 72.6 bore...
the y and z engine are long stroke..maybe in the to hard basket... for me..
the crank i have..came with the z motor...but seems to have more than 82mm stroke..il,ll have another go at measure today..
did long stroke a7,s come with ally rods???  the rods, journal  look fine and do have the rod numbers (other post)
the timing case side i have...has the lugs for the gearbox ...and i want to put in rigid or plunger frame...

questions
are a7 and a10 semi unit cases the same?? like a50 and a65??
anyway to identitfy this crank??
and..yeah i live in absolute paradise... the gold coast... pretty sure i know where kilcoy is..did a tiltpanel up in blackbutt..macadamia farm..
yeah...and lookin for the rest of the parts...
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 12.08. 2012 22:12

 somebody talked about cylinder sleeves...sleeves are easy...just picked up a set for a turnip speedtwin..a 51 model...
cost me less than $20.00 ea brand new...shiny and oily.....got ,m from a diesel fitter...they had heaps..think 28 of that size... i got one for a b33 last year..think $28.00...and fitted it with my 6 inch chinese lathe, bbq and freezer,...start to finish on a sunday...using the original piston... they are made as wet liners and are a bit  too thick .200 wall?? but once a jig is made...just like cuttin a clay pot...
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 13.08. 2012 10:30
next bit of info...my rods measure 6 1/2 inches on centre... journals 3 3/8 on centre...sooo its either an a7 long stroke or an a10...
now just have to work out a way to accuratly measure the stroke...unless there is some other defining mark...
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 13.08. 2012 13:34
got the crank in my lathe...both have 84mm stroke...
  so now i be lookin for a drive side crankcase, cylinder and a bunch of little parts...
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: duTch on 14.08. 2012 12:15
Hiya Kev,
      I dunno if that's your name and don't care but as it's what came easily out of that 'moniker'  it works, I'm not stalkin' you, much better fodder than some bloke with a bunch of crusty old bezza bits!!
 
Richard, You're more of a sleuth than me !!, years ago a bunch of us had planned to go for a sunday ride to the Linville pub(just for the record, it's not far from Jimna, which competes with Springbrook in Kevs' world for reputation of one of the wetter parts of SEQ), but it never happened, and even though I've been past the turnoff many times, still never been there, must be a bit of guilt going on and will address it.
 
 Kev, 'bout those cranks, I know 'jack' about long strokes, but seems maybe~ you have a10 cranks, the long stroke rods of ~82mm(?) would have a smaller big end eye('citation' please).
Cases should be matched in pairs,have a (same)number stamped on each one.
Numbers on the rods I believe are just a casting number, A10 has 67-1160? Part #67-1205/6(I have 7 rods,all with different suffix-zz1/2z/z 3/4~whatever)A7 has part# 67-1201/2,dunno casting#!
 
 'Nuff for now, good you got that job done with the the barby and freezer, they go hand in hand with most difficult tasks!!!
  Ps I stay away from tilt-ups these days, unless it's the lifting bit!!

 Cheers duTch
       
   
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: olev on 15.08. 2012 01:29
Gday mate,
Do you have any frames?
Post the frame numbers and we'll tell you what model it used to be.
Then we'll get you a parts book to suit.
Mike Riley out at Beenleigh has more beeza stuff than you will ever see in a lifetime.
(though he can get a bit exxxy on a bad day)
and the Gatton swap is coming up.
cheers
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: duTch on 15.08. 2012 05:05
Good call Olev, but best to have an idea what bits Kev has/needs, before talking to him, otherwise it will be a bad day(no offense to mike)!
 Cheers, duTch

ps off topic but,went to Laverdry show, not many Bezzas' but was a rig with a Bell Jetranger helicopter engine
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 15.08. 2012 11:41
back again...the 3 3/8 is from journal to journal...sideways... the rods are 6 1/2 inches centre to centre..i,m pretty satisfied i ave a a10crank.. small journal...one of ,m is 40 under..and the journals pretty beat at that...the other is 10 under and lookin pretty fine...i,ll get some plastiguage in there soon see how she looks...with the shells that came with it... i dont have any frame yet...once i get these bits up and..together...i,m sure something will come along..i do have a b31 plunger frame ...i,m sure that would work...with a bit of metal enthusiasm... but rather get the right one...all these parts are just an accumulation over the years...just parts that come along when you buy other parts...just put it all in one spot..and...yeah...might be another bike in that...
soooooo .... any reccos for a crank grinder ...gold coast or bris area???  the timing bush...doesnt look like much of a challenge ... anything i should know??? anybody have a time out one for a pattern??? also a cam grinder.. the only one i have has a fair bit of rust pits on one lobe...
parts books... got a cd off ebay...has about 20+ bsa parts and factory service manauals...think it was $10.00
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: muskrat on 16.08. 2012 09:50
 G'day mate, from the sound of it your after a drive side case for a A7/10 plunger. The hardest to find as most have damage to the inner primary part of the case. Once one is found you will need to deck the barrel face and line bore the timing and cam bushes. I take it your on a tight budget but a new cam won't be much dearer than getting yours reco'd. Tighe cams might be worth a shot.
 Get the crank ground and use new slippers, DON'T skimp there.
 Small or big fin / thick or thin flange barrels will fit all cases (not long stroke).
Cheers
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: duTch on 16.08. 2012 10:44
Gidday Kev,
               As Muskrat said, Ivan Tighe Engineering in the phone book  (07)3271 6001, he did mine years ago, when you couldn't buy one.
  Also for Crank grinding, Mendham Engineering @Ipswich rd, Rocklea, or, Bryant Engineering, Mica st Carole Park.
There's not many around who do it for bikes.
 
****Don't forget to pull the sludge trap plugs too,*** you can buy hex-key replacements from SRM, cheap! Or ordinary ones from BJ's about the same.
 
Cheers fer now, duTch.
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: duTch on 16.08. 2012 10:47
Gidday Kev,
               As Muskrat said, Ivan Tighe Engineering in the phone book  (07)3271 6001, he did mine years ago, when you couldn't buy one.
  Also for Crank grinding, Mendham Engineering @Ipswich rd, Rocklea, or, Bryant Engineering, Mica st Carole Park.
There's not many around who do it for bikes.
 
****Don't forget to pull the sludge trap plugs too,***, You can find lots of creative ideas on that, in the archives, and you can buy hex-key replacements from SRM, cheap! Or ordinary ones from BJ's about the same.
 
Cheers fer now, duTch.
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: shuswapkev on 16.08. 2012 10:59
thanks heaps for the advice...
  yeah if i can get a reasonable used cam..a new one ...or reground...?? and cranks gotta be done...be nice to find somebody with enough enthusiasm to do both..
the damage to primary...really not much damage that a tig wont fix... just keep a couple of old cast ally lawnmower bases out the back...they have almost every shape i have needed...

cylinders...i have big and small fin head..so will either fit the plunger cases??

question of the day... oil pumps... will an a65 oil pump work on the semi unit cases..  i see a few a65 pumps on ebay...
yeah the sludge traps...all the ones i have ever done needed a big drill to get thru the black stuff...
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: muskrat on 16.08. 2012 13:44
 I have big fin barrels and head on my '51 A7 plunger.
The price of dead Victa's just went up. Good for fin repairs too. My 1st bike had a 125 Victa motor in a home made frame with wheelbarrow wheels and DISC brake (push bike brakes clamped on rear sprocket. Oil chain = no brakes  *eek*)
I think the A65 pumps spin the other way.
Cheers
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: seel450 on 28.08. 2012 07:03
Hi from New Zealand,im starting with a 19543 A10 rolling chassis,no motor or gearbox.Im a little rusty on A10s now,its been 40 years since i restored my 1951 plunger model,sadly i sold it.I have been offered a wheelbarrow full of engine bits,and need to verify a few things please! I recall the oil hole in the codrods had to face a certain way for lubrication?Did these earlier models have the small journal crankshaft.Are the barrells and heads the same on the A10s,plunger and swingarm?regards Graeme
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: muskrat on 28.08. 2012 08:09
 G'day Graeme, welcome to the forum.
                                                    Best starting your own topic, but since your here.
The oil hole is in the left (drive side) facing inwards (flywheel). Small journal up to about '58 I think but will fit in with the right rods. Small fin to '54 but again big fin will fit on earlier.
Cheers
Title: Re: a10 motor...lookin for a bunch of help
Post by: seel450 on 29.08. 2012 20:18
Thanks muskrat,ive sourced all of the engine bar the engine cases,i have them from another source,the cylinders +0.40,the guy says they can be bored to +0.70 is that correct?,im getting 0.50 low compr pistons(new set with gudgeons and rings )with the engine,a mag and a genny.Hopefully all the shims and bits and bobs.From memory,the later swingarm gearbox internals fit the plunger box,correct?are the mainshafts the same?i recall some with a taper and keyway,some with a spline,my momories a bit rusty after 40 years.I need lots of bits for this one,battery box,mudguard stays on the rear,mudguards,front 8 inch wheel hub, plus small bits.Great old bikes,i restored one back in the 80s and did many,many miles on her,regards Graeme in New Zealand