The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => Frame => Topic started by: *nick* on 29.10. 2012 05:00
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So I have some new hard chromed fork tubes with new bushes, progressive springs, new oil seals, seal holders, gators etc and I'm just finishing up the last few things on my B33 for a show it's in this weekend, today I'm assembling the forks but forgot to put the gland nut on the bottom of the fork tubes before I slid them into the legs. I've just taken the tubes out of the legs and noticed the lower bushes are both still in the fork legs and I can't get them out *eek*
*exploded diagram* (http://www.draganfly.co.uk/images/shop/b3/23/tele.gif)
The motorcycle gods are laughing hysterically at me now. I can't seem to drag the bushes out with the fork tube as there's clearly more friction between the walls of the fork legs and the bushes than the inside of the bushes and the fork tubes, yes they were liberally oiled before installation as were the legs.
Dear god what do I do now, I'm jumping hurdles left right and centre trying to get this bike ready for the show, i don't need this!
regards,
Nick
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Could be a tricky one Nick.
They shouldnt be able to jam in too tight though so try this to start with.
Get a good piece of wood, tip the fork slider upside down and bang it down hard on the wood, might have to do this several times.
By any chance do you have an old seal holder ? If you do cut it off about 1" above where the seal sits and screw it fully onto the leg. Do the same thing but this time bang in on a piece of steel or something hard.
The idea is to "shock" the bush out of its place.
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tried that Brian with no success unfortunately *sad2*
I covered the bush in a light 10W oil then placed a big piece of hardwood on the garage floor with a folded up old heavy duty dirt bike inner tube on that so as to not damage the fork legs, i gave them a good wallop with the rubber mallet but no such luck, the bushes wont budge.
Now i've got a long strip of thin road bicycle inner tube down one fork leg with a glob of super glue on the end stuck to the inside of the bush, i carefully put it in there with a long screwdriver, I'll let it cure for a few hours then hopefully that adhesive will give me enough purchase to drag it out of the leg by pulling on the strip of inner tube.
The only other idea I could think of was a very long thin rod with a hook or 'L' shape at the end as the bush is not at the very bottom of the leg i could get something in under it and pull it up and out. I haven't found anything in the garage that fits that description though.
-Nick
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Walloping them with a rubber mallet wont work Nick, the shock is coming from the wrong direction.
If the bush isnt at the bottom you should be able to get a piece of steel with a hook on the end under it to pull it out.
What you need is a thing called a slide hammer.
If it doesnt come out head down to your local garage, as in mechanical repair place, they should have a slide hammer and it should come out quite easily.
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super glue on the inner tube didn't work. I think you're right Brian, I need a long pointy thing with a strong hook on the end, it'd have to be small though as the bottom of the fork legs have that cast in pin at the bottom which locates the fork tube and there's not a lot of room.
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I do 'silly' things most days, starting when eyes open.... *eek* til they close..
Just (don't) watch the 'sling-shot', could be a headache, more-> *eek*
I've had a similar situation today, different application but the remedy wouldn't work on yours as I had access from the other end, and my slide hammer wasn't long enough!
A slide hammer can be improvised, as I did, with a length of threaded rod (Booker Bar), nuts and big washers and old piston pins from a truck or similar. Be good if you can get a two prong tool in there(diametrically opposed).
Scratchin me head on this one, good luck, dutch
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Barring success from easier approaches....do you have an old stanchion you could sacrifice? If so, you mignt try slitting the end into six or eight tines. Create a tapered plug wiith a tapped hole on center to take a threaded rod that is long enough to get a grip on. After the tines are spread, grip the exposed end of the rod in a vise and pull on the leg, etc. (or some variation on this concept).
Richard L.
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sounds like a plan Richard though I can see a catch 22 in it as pressure applied to the tines will be transferred to the bush making it tighter, worth a shot though.
I'd be more in favour of the hook approach, thinking along the angled spoke path
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Maybe I should have added, "swab the inside of the bush with mineral spirits." That way, the force required to create static friction should be less than that to expand the bush. From here in Chicago, it's hard to tell how close the bush is to the bottom of the leg. Might be very difficult getting a purshase with a strong enough hook. If using that method, and there's room for a nut at the bottom, I would go with the largest diameter washer that would fit through the bush, maximizing the area on the end of the bush where the pulling force is distributed. Also, you'd want to use a fairly fat threaded rod. If none of this stuff works, take advice from someone who actually knows something.
Richard L.
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Have You considered filling the forkleg with lead shot then pounding this down with a rubber mallet ?
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This is getting fun. What about chopping up some dry ice and pouring it in. The bush will have higher rate of contraction than the leg. This might get it loose enough to slide to a more reachable position. Do this on Halloween night, so if it doesn't work, you will at least get some spooky fog.
Richard L.
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There's a thought. Pour oil in till it's 1/2 way up the bush. Plug the end of the stanchion and insert into the bush and give it a good whack. The pressure of the oil might move it.
Cheers
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Jim ,
Thats similar in principle to My suggestion ..probably better as the oil is less likely to damage anything .
This was My thinking re lead shot .
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Muskrat,
How would you suggest plugging the end of the stanchion? If you plug it at the top, you will just compress air? If you plug it at the bottom, it will need to be with something smaller than the ID of the bush.
Richard L.
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Hi Nick,
Another approach???
If you remove the oil drain screw maybe you could poke at the bush from underneath ??
Did you forget to fit the retaining nuts ?
In that case the bushes may have gone down to the very end which would be an unworn part resulting in them getting stuck
Rather than your glue experiment I think I would use some solvent spray to degrease the bushes and the ends of the stanchions a drop of loctite on the stanchion and sit it into the bush and leave it set , then hopefully pull them out *idea*
HTH
John
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If we agreed that a little scratching at one end of the bushing doesn't really matter, here is a puller idea. Stiff wire with a pre-bend clamped between nuts on all-thread. May be a bit draconian.
Richard L.
P.S. Yes, I'm enjoying this too much.
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ok so I was up til midnight last night working my pea brain silly trying to come up with ideas, I ended up calling my mate Pete who's been working as toolmaker longer than i've been alive (i'm 24), he's keen on the long hook idea so will turn up a thin piece of rod with a short stiff 90 degree bend at the very end to get under the bottom lip of the bush. At the opposite end from the hook we'll put some thread on the rod with a decent nut and a few big washers, as well as a loose heavy sliding collar to work as an improvised slide hammer, should the bushes be really stuck hard. Pete and i have a good thing going, he's the guy i go too when i botch things up and i'm the kid he comes to when he cant work the VHS or his new iPad ha! I think I get the better end of the arrangement!
I'll report back tomorrow after we've made the tool and had a crack, many thanks for the pearls of wisdom, i reckon keep them flowing, someone might have a better solution lurking in their grey stuff just waiting to come out!
regards,
Nick
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In the grey stuff and under the grey hair.
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Try a length of round wood (fat broom handle), which is same / similar size as staunchion.
File a taper on the end, say 30 degrees.
Push and tap at the same time, the tapered end into the bush. Rotate the handle clockwise say a turn, and hopefully it has locked into the sharp edge at the top of the bush. Pull out, but slowly rotate at the same time (as the actress said to the bishop).
The softer the wood, the more likely it is to bite into the bush.
Good luck,
Richard
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In the grey stuff and under the grey hair.
Some of us don't have both in abundance - I'll leave it to others to judge my ratio (although my usual at the barbers is a grade 2) *smiley4*
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If nothing else has worked maybe try expanding a rubber bung into the bush and pulling it out, using a tube, length of studding inside the tube, steel washers, nuts and of course a round rubber disc that's just fits inside the bush.
Super glue on the rubber if it won't grip first time.
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There's a thought. Pour oil in till it's 1/2 way up the bush. Plug the end of the stanchion and insert into the bush and give it a good whack. The pressure of the oil might move it.
Cheers
That's like the old way of removing blind gearbox bushes etc which often worked.
The other thing that springs to mind is a rawlbolt (you know, with the expanding sectors: http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=25). Find one that expands to the inner diameter of the bush, replace the central bolt with a long length of metric allthread and it may work......
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The 'cast in damper taper' at the bottom will impede some ideas(do they not have a securing grub screw up the bottom ?), also just remembered some ceiling fixing butterfly type do-dads that also won't work with the cast-in taper *conf*
Otherwise, has anyone suggested gently heating the bottom of the tube and then do the inverted knock on wood?? and maybe dry or wet ice inside(which I know won't last long, but maybe enough to do the job)?
Just had another flash idea as I was posting- how about a water pipe 'riser' they have a slightly tapered thread, you know- what your garden tap may be screwed onto that comes out of the ground- go to an irrigation shop maybe a 1-1/4"-1-1/2" waterpipe is measured differently (nominal bore), take in the slider- slip it on the riser, and see if it grabs the bush, even a poly one may work
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I watched a mate of mine do a smart thing which may help.... to expand a poly pipe that will fit inside the offending part, he used the pressure of a threaded inner rod with a secure nut and small washer at the bottom covered the poly pipe and a rubber sleeve. the poly pipe was cut on a long line across it so that when the threaded inner was taking the pressure of the top nut being wound down on it, the pipe slides along the cut and effectively expands, gripping the inner surface of your bushes then you can tug away to your hearts content..... I understand it may not be feasible in the area you have to expand it in. But it sure as heck worked for getting my A10 forks up into the top yoke.
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Nick,
Please, deliver us from the madness and get the dam* things out already. *smile* ;)
Richard L.
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Richard, I'd plug it with a bit of timber (broom/pick handle) in the bottom thread. This method would be least likely to damage any parts.
Cheers
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I wasn't arguing against Orabanda's idea, or any of them, or politicking for mine. I'm just saying, with so many ideas, shouldn't the bushings be out by now? (Nick, just playin' *smile*.)
Richard L.
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Hi Nick
We have all done things like this. This is what I would do if all else fails, this works in the same way as a push bike handle bar adjusting stem. If your friend is a tool maker he will have no problem knocking this up.
Steve
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A variation on a couple of themes in case the long hook method fails
gather as many electric kettles as you can ready filled with water, take them down the shed or wherever you do you tinkering, stick your broom handle down and wedged in the bush, gently grip the leg in a vice then slowly pour boiling water over the bottom of the leg (kettles plugged in in relays to keep the boiling water coming) and steady pressure on the broom handle, hopefully the leg will expand enough before the heat gets through to the bush.
and yes Steve is spot on few if any of us have not done something a little nonsensical at times
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Mission Accomplished...
my mate Peter the tool maker got a 700mm ish long piece of roughly 4mm steel rod, at one end he heated the rod with the oxy and hammered a very small 4mm long right angle lip, at the opposing end of the rod he cut a thread and screwed on a nut and large washer, along the rod was a large loose bush from a price of scrap brass which he found floating around his work.
All we had to do was grip the fork legs in the vice horizontal to the floor, i held a good LED torch with a fixed beam down into the leg while Pete got the hook in behind the bottom on the bush and we simply used the slide hammer do dislodge the bushes and drag them out.
On closer inspection the inside walls of the legs are pretty scored up from probably having water in them at some stage, today i'm going to get some old broom handle and cut a slot in it, wrap some emery cloth around it and put a big screw into the dowel, with the cordless drill i should be able to clean up most of the inside of the legs, i got all the rust off from having them in some molasses/water mix for a week but they're still pretty rough inside.
Hopefully by the end of the day the bike will be all together to complete the final mock assembly, i'll get it running next week have a quick ride around the block and check the set up on everything then i'll be pulling it down again for paint and chroming etc before I rebuild the motor and gearbox. This project has been one of the biggest challenges of my life, not one component has simply gone together as it should, everything required some amount of fettling or restoring and it doesn't help the bikes is a complete bitsa and all this stuff is all new to me, hence mistakes like the bush in forks fiasco, anyhoo i really appreciate all your help and advice, you certainly meet the nicest people on motorbikes, especially old bikes.
many thanks,
young Nick *smile*
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Well done young man
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Glad to hear you got it out. I was at the point of suggesting some gunpowder and a fuse..... wink2
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I know I'm going to sleep better. *clap*
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Glad to hear you got it out. I was at the point of suggesting some gunpowder and a fuse..... wink2
I laid the angle grinder with a cutting disk on it next to the fork legs on the bench the other night after going to bed, just so the bushes knew what was in store if they didn't co-operate!
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Congrat's Nick. Looks like you may even get it ready for the show. Mine was also a bitsa, and had me well foxed for a while... It's now (30 plus years later) fully functional, and as original as I want it. The best is yet to come for you mate... there is no joy quite like riding down the road with a smile all over ya chops.
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well done Nick, I'm hearing you on the 'fettling everything, and mine began in late 70s, never a resto, like Gav, but getting closer to it with everything that doesn't fit.
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Is it a coincidence that ,Richard (manosound of curry fame ) lives in windy city ,just a thought ,a strange one I know probably brought on by the relief of knowing those bloody bushes finally relented, seriously well chuffed for you Nick, Cheers BobH
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I am absolutely convinced that the more of a b*tch it is to get on the road, the more fun it is to ride. Had a laugh with the threatening grinder joke. Dutch, if I respond to your joke, we are both going to be in trouble. However, I will say that "loud" is not an adjective that applies.
Richard L.
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Hi Richard, I like it when people think joke/funny, but scratching head a bit there, I'll try and stay right of far left (or is that left of far right)- I don't really do loud too much these days either !
Nick I'm adopting that tactic as I type
Cheers All
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here's a pic of the old rust bucket today at the set up of of the bike show:
(https://www.a7a10.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn1%2F523587_10151076192700728_128192240_n.jpg&hash=ea026e4e730fb635c817cc4cb6047849f7d46463)
It's a '52 B33 motor with a latter big fin head, Goldstar scrambler cams but standard compression piston and pre-war Amal, the frame is an old modified '47 B series rigid which I swapped for a bottle or rum, rigid/plunger model gearbox with a 4 spring triumph clutch with the cush drive centre, the forks are new hard chromed ones with matched phosphor bronze bushes, Eddie Dow damper rods and progressive springs, early unit A series 8" brake with air scoop that was on an old Goldstar racer that campaigned in NSW in the 80's, front rim is an early Akront, the rear wheel is a 50's Triumph hub on a new Morad and i'm using an old misc front mudguard as a rear guard, the seat is new, it has a Lucas N1 maggy and the tank is from some '70's japanese dirt bike. the handlebars came off a KR750 Harley. the brakes don't work yet and I haven't turned up a proper rear axle yet or shimmed the primary in line. The bike was once raced in Tasmania then turned into a club run bike in the 80's, after the previous owner passed on I picked up the bike from a shed and began assessing what was salvageable and what was not, i've tried to return it to some kind of 50's race bike and will hopefully get it on the Broadford Dirt Track soon enough. I have a 21" Morad in the shed i think i might swap the front 18" not sure yet i'll get it running properly then decide.
I also have a half complete M21 which I want to do a proper restoration on but I need to get my own lathe and learn to weld first, small steps, I'm getting there slowly.
-Nick
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Now, I'm confused. Nick, do you own an A7 or A10, as well? Are you planning on getting one? Is that the state in which the B33 will remain, or is there a restoration taking place?
Richard L.
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Now that looks real sweet. Not going to get far on that tank range though I'd guess.
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Now, I'm confused. Nick, do you own an A7 or A10, as well? Are you planning on getting one? Is that the state in which the B33 will remain, or is there a restoration taking place?
Richard L.
Richard the bike is an ex-race bike from Tasmania Australia, it raced circuit style tracks in the 50's but they were dirt roads not bitumen, it was at plunger model when i found it but I gave the plunger frame to a friend who needed one after I found an old modified rigid frame which I have re-built the bike around, I'm trying to emulate something like what it would have originally been raced as. I have an M21 which i am doing a proper correct restoration on but alas no A series bikes, i joined the forum some years ago as an observed after I was offered an 80% complete Golden Flash basket case for peanuts but I turned it down as I didn't really know what it was at the time. -Nick
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Nick,
If you like some advise, get yourself an A10, a welding kit and a lathe, cos that's the things with which I have the most fun in my life (that's next to the missus *respect* of course!)
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and a 10 ton press, Nick.
Its amazing how things cooperate after a little squeeze.
cheers