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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: kbret on 19.11. 2012 15:37

Title: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: kbret on 19.11. 2012 15:37
Thought I'd try and tax my 1950 es2 today and sure enough all you require is insurance. Tax disc should arrive in 5 days.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: metalflake11 on 19.11. 2012 16:11
My log book states my first registration as 6th January 1960. Still not sure if I am glad or not? I can't help but wonder if something nasty is in the pipeline for one or other of us.........I don't trust politicians, but who does?
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: kbret on 19.11. 2012 16:54
It's not when the bikes first registered but when the bike was built that makes it eligible.

Keith.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: metalflake11 on 19.11. 2012 17:10
Is it?................... How do you know when it was built? BSA owners club or other source? Thanks Keith.
                                                                                                                 Rob.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Goldy on 19.11. 2012 18:26
There is some info regarding this on sump.     http://www.sumpmagazine.com/classicbikenews/index.htm
Scroll to the bottom.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: metalflake11 on 19.11. 2012 19:09
Thanks Goldy.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Topdad on 20.11. 2012 10:34
Thanks for that update Keith my A's been on sorn for about a year ready for Mot but didn't fancy all the rain we are having at this mo so poss will take of and see what the DVLA send me re requirements ,I'll still get her looked over in the new year thou just to have another head check what I've done best wishes BobH
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Tumbleweed on 28.11. 2012 20:46
 will the  insurance company require some kind of inspection or will the premiums go up, and do we need one for registration
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Stephen Foster on 29.11. 2012 06:40
As neither the Insurance company or D.V.L.A could give Me a straight answer on the above I recently took the "Flash" for M.O.T .
Little faith in "Bean counters" personally .
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: NickSR on 29.11. 2012 21:22
Hi Every one

Just read the posting, as my 1955 C11G is insured but with with no MOT I thought I would give it a go taxing it on line, seems to have worked.

We will see if the Tax Disc arrives ?.

Please Note: when I insured my bikes mid November for renewal on the 23rd Nov Carole Nash did say they a MOT cert was required to meet my legal requirement ?.

Regards
Nick
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Stephen Foster on 30.11. 2012 06:15
Interesting as when I queried Carol Nash they couldnt give Me a definitive answer ?
"Man who deals with that sort of thing isnt in the office Today" type answer .
Think I will keep on getting My bikes M.O.T tested .
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Topdad on 30.11. 2012 13:12
Good afternoon everyone , re Stephens post .I've just contacted my ins co ,( Lynbrook insurance, 0845 1304662 ) prev 3 times no info at all this time the guy was clued up and knew exactly what I was talking about , he stated that as the Govt had decided that no MOT was required then they couldn't force people to get one and then being pushed by me re the hidden agender theory He assured me that all they were planning to do was monitor there claims experience and should they increase due to possible unroadworthy bikes they would then take action but otherwise they would do has at present . I must say that it put my mind at ease although I'll probably still get it tested , best wishes BobH
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Butch (cb) on 30.11. 2012 15:00
Well, I shall not be having any vehicles tested that have now been exempted by this ruling.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Duncan R on 30.11. 2012 18:37
In France you don't need a MOT (Control Technique) for any motorcycle regardless of age. However you have to keep the bike in roadworthy condition and you will be fined if you get caught using it on the road in poor condition. Premiums seem similar or cheaper than the UK.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: morris on 30.11. 2012 19:28
In France you don't need a MOT (Control Technique) for any motorcycle regardless of age. However you have to keep the bike in roadworthy condition and you will be fined if you get caught using it on the road in poor condition. Premiums seem similar or cheaper than the UK.

Same for Belgium. Think it's time you Brits join the EU ;)
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Greybeard on 30.11. 2012 19:33
In France you don't need a MOT (Control Technique) for any motorcycle regardless of age. However you have to keep the bike in roadworthy condition and you will be fined if you get caught using it on the road in poor condition.

Also in the UK you must keep your vehicle in roadworthy condition.

Neil Ives UK
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: shabashow on 30.11. 2012 19:39
I've got a feeling that the cops will do you if your MOT exempt bike isn't "road worthy". So whether you get it inspected independetly or not, your lights, horn and brakes must work (to a degree), there should be at least the minimum tread on the tyres and there shouldn't be any bits falling off. Not needing an MOT, for beurocratic reasons, doesn't give you carte blanche for riding any old scrapper, not that anyone on the forum would contemplate such a thing! ;)
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: muskrat on 30.11. 2012 19:46
"not that anyone on the forum would contemplate such a thing! wink"
Just won RAT bike trophy on the A65. Club plated bikes need to be inspected yearly. Guess who the club inspector is. *smile* *eek* *razz* *whistle* .
Cheers
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: bsa-bill on 30.11. 2012 22:02
Quote
I've got a feeling that the cops will do you if your MOT exempt bike isn't "road worthy".

yep and I have a feeling they wont be as sympathetic to our classics as many MOT guys are
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 01.12. 2012 11:23
Quote
I've got a feeling that the cops will do you if your MOT exempt bike isn't "road worthy".

yep and I have a feeling they wont be as sympathetic to our classics as many MOT guys are

Why do you think that?

I can't think of anything that would be ok with a tester, but the cops would do you for, apart from items under Construction and Use regs but not in the MoT Testers' manual. And that was always the case.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.12. 2012 11:54
Quote
Why do you think that?

Not having a go at the cops at all, always found them quite old bike friendly, while said old bike is sitting looking pretty, however would they take original equipments limitations into consideration such as
Silencers - which would not comply with today's  sound levels in particular Goldiy silencers which where not really original road equipment IIRC
Lights - six volt were ok back in the day, would your average traffic policeman know what the law is re adequate illumination on today's roads, for eg how many of the many cyclists riding at night without lights get booked.
Brakes - will they accept that in our classic case the highway code needs changed to allow us twice the amount of "thinking time"

I guess time will tell, meanwhile I intend to get mine mot'd, a fresh set of eyes is always a good thing I think, on the plus side it will be nice not to have to adhere to a certain date once a year to get it done
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: lawnmowerman on 01.12. 2012 13:50
I own a 1938 car and also the 1959 SR and I have always found the police to be quite helpful with old vehicles - I even got a push in the car in the pouring rain one day when it had broken down.

Our problem may be with VOSA who are more used to dealing with HGVs and commercial traffic.

As I have said in earlier posts, most of us classic vehicle owners while being quite expert in the maintenance of our vehicles do not possess formal qualifications whereas the police and VOSA do. There are many areas in the MOT which are down to the discretion of MOT testers in some garages who understand the limitations of old vehicles. If we self-certify our vehicles we are not "qualified" to use discretion in those grey areas.

In a dispute with VOSA or the police we will always lose because we are "amateurs" up against "professionals" who may chose not to use discretion and go by the letter of the law.

Having said all that, nothing has really changed as the MOT (old style and new style voluntary) only certifies the vehicle at the time of test and the onus is still on the driver to ensure the vehicle is roadworthy and meets regulations.

What concerns me is the irresponsible few who will undoubtedly see this as an opportunity for cheap travel and put death traps on the road. After a few accidents involving these people the insurance companies will take notice and increase premiums and possibly also introduce independant tests for older vehicles. This could put us in a worse position than we were before the recent government meddling.

Time will tell.

Jim
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Goldy on 01.12. 2012 14:43
Quite a few fellow enthusiasts have been saying that the Insurance companies will start their own tests. Well they cannot do that, if the law says an MOT is not required then they have to accept it, they cannot make their own law.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: iansoady on 01.12. 2012 14:56
Quite a few fellow enthusiasts have been saying that the Insurance companies will start their own tests. Well they cannot do that, if the law says an MOT is not required then they have to accept it, they cannot make their own law.

No they can't but they can impose conditions. For example, a lot of insurers won't accept modifications - which for cars can be as trivial as towbars.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 01.12. 2012 15:28
, they cannot make their own law.

They can decide how expensive the premium is or, of course, they can decide to refuse you any insurance.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 01.12. 2012 15:37
Quote
Why do you think that?

Not having a go at the cops at all, always found them quite old bike friendly, while said old bike is sitting looking pretty, however would they take original equipments limitations into consideration such as
Silencers - which would not comply with today's  sound levels in particular Goldiy silencers which where not really original road equipment IIRC

Back in the good old days, before CE marks etc, a silencer was illegally loud if a copper said it sounded too loud.


Quote
Lights - six volt were ok back in the day, would your average traffic policeman know what the law is re adequate illumination on today's roads, .

Even a 30/24W 6V headlight looks like a lit headlight to someone who looks at it.

Quote
Brakes - will they accept that in our classic case the highway code needs changed to allow us twice the amount of "thinking time"

Are we that slow-thinking?

Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.12. 2012 16:45

Quote
Back in the good old days, before CE marks etc, a silencer was illegally loud if a copper said it sounded too loud.

My point exactly my silencer has no CE marks that I know of, I'd welcome your comments if you can tell me how many of our retro silencers have, perhaps I'm buying from the wrong sources.

Quote
Even a 30/24W 6V headlight looks like a lit headlight to someone who looks at it.

what odds does it makes to anyone looking at it that it's lit, it's how much it allows the person sitting behind it that matters

Quote
Quote
Are we that slow-thinking?

of course not but our bikes are that slow braking compared to modern vehicles designed to brake in much heavier traffic now than then

anyhow looks like we must agree to disagree as previously stated I'm pretty happy with our local police.
I just wonder if in the case of any accidents opposing lawyers might make some kind of point against a bike that had no MOT (required or not) and police evidence re the above points might not be favourable to any biker concerned - lets hope not
 

Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 01.12. 2012 18:35


Quote
Back in the good old days, before CE marks etc, a silencer was illegally loud if a copper said it sounded too loud.

Quote
My point exactly my silencer has no CE marks that I know of, I'd welcome your comments if you can tell me how many of our retro silencers have, perhaps I'm buying from the wrong sources.

I didn't say "retro silencers" have CE marks. I implied that we are now living in the days of CE marks, which we are.  I don't actually know if modern ones have CE marks, but they have some sort of stupid marks.

Quote
Even a 30/24W 6V headlight looks like a lit headlight to someone who looks at it.

Quote
what odds does it makes to anyone looking at it that it's lit, it's how much it allows the person sitting behind it that matters

It makes this odds- the Police do not sit behind it and ride your bike. They stand and look at it. We were talking about Police, remember?


Quote
Are we that slow-thinking?

Quote
of course not but our bikes are that slow braking compared to modern vehicles designed to brake in much heavier traffic now than then

That's not "thinking time" then. Take your brake to someone who can make it work. I'm sure there are plenty guys on this forum who can help.

Quote
anyhow looks like we must agree to disagree as previously stated I'm pretty happy with our local police.

I'm happy with mine too.



Quote
I just wonder if in the case of any accidents opposing lawyers might make some kind of point against a bike that had no MOT (required or not) and police evidence re the above points might not be favourable to any biker concerned - lets hope not

A Lawyer might well raise the subject.  Actually brakes didn't have to be very good to pass the MoT.

Even if you have an MoT, an insurer or his lawyer might mention 60-year old brakes.
 

Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: morris on 01.12. 2012 20:10

What concerns me is the irresponsible few who will undoubtedly see this as an opportunity for cheap travel and put death traps on the road. After a few accidents involving these people the insurance companies will take notice and increase premiums and possibly also introduce independant tests for older vehicles. This could put us in a worse position than we were before the recent government meddling.

I personally don't think that "the irresponsible few" ever bother with MOT, let alone insurance or driving licenses or whatever.
This is one of the reasons insurances are so expensive, because we "responsible citizens" pay extra premium to cover for the damage caused by these hooligans who don't give a s**t about anyone or anything *angry*
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Ted_Flash on 02.12. 2012 09:01
The UK MOT method for testing brakes was pointless.  It did not test a brakes efficiency at converting rotational energy into heat, but just how good it was as a parking brake.  Drum brakes always passed unless really awful.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 02.12. 2012 10:08
The UK MOT method for testing brakes was pointless.  It did not test a brakes efficiency at converting rotational energy into heat, but just how good it was as a parking brake.  Drum brakes always passed unless really awful.

Ovality could make them fail.
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: Greybeard on 02.12. 2012 11:20
The UK MOT method for testing brakes was pointless.  It did not test a brakes efficiency at converting rotational energy into heat, but just how good it was as a parking brake.  Drum brakes always passed unless really awful.

When I started to drive MOT testers used to take cars out for a test drive which included a brake test using a portable accelerometer of some sort.
I had a 1929 Austin Seven car that had only the rear brakes operated by the foot pedal and front brakes operated by the handbrake lever. Because an emergency stop required foot and hanbrake to be operated I had to drive while the tester sat beside me with the test meter.

Neil Ives UK
Title: Re: No mot for pre-1960 vehicles
Post by: lawnmowerman on 02.12. 2012 23:26

When I started to drive MOT testers used to take cars out for a test drive which included a brake test using a portable accelerometer of some sort.

Neil Ives UK

When I take my Discovery in for an MOT they still do the test run with the portable kit as using the rollers with a 4WD can wreck the xmission.

Jim