The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Motoanimal on 17.01. 2013 18:49

Title: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 17.01. 2013 18:49
Hi guys!
I bought some pattern A10 Cam followers from evilbay but the inlet followers were +5 'thou too big in diameter. I remonstrated but was informed they were the last set in the world and I could return them if I wanted etc.
To cut a long story short I decided to keep them and took them to a machine shop to have the 5 thou' removed. Well, they B%&*#ed them up big time! The appologies were profuse and they tried to replace them without sucess, but they did say that they were happy to recondition the old ones..... Ah, the old ones.... now where the hell did I put them? Oh yeah, I threw them out! *sad2* (wot a dipstick!) I NEVER throw anything out! (until now!!!)

Anybody got and old knackered A10 cam followers that I can reclaim (re-face/re-nitride)? Happy to pay?
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: bsa-bill on 17.01. 2013 19:33
Didn't think they were that rare to be honest but see Draganfly are out of stock, Lyfords list them but pricey, worth ringing around  other well known dealers, also watch Ebay they come up now and then.
Do a Google for A10 Cam followers surprising what comes up at times, old ones can be reground just means a bit of adjustment lost on the tappet, no biggie
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: LJ. on 17.01. 2013 19:39
I've just given some away but they were for the long stroke motor. I wonder if Andy has any?

http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php/topic,6571.0.html
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: groily on 18.01. 2013 07:37
I have a worn set you can have if you want? Send me a PM if still in need, yours for the post from France.
Got my new set from British Only Austria, but it was their last set at the time (about 3 months back). Not sure if they've got more yet. Also, one was a thou oversize and had to be fitted, tediously and slowly. I assume you've tried all the usual suspects? Cheers, Bill
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 18.01. 2013 10:33
Oh you little angel you! I could kiss you!  *eek* ...Whaaaaat? He lives in France! Blokes kiss each other all the time there!  *smile* I'll PM you mate.
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: groily on 18.01. 2013 13:26
Un plaisir, mon petit chérubin! Got your name on already!
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 18.01. 2013 13:45
Vous êtes très gentil Monsieur, Merci beaucoup. Combien je vous dois?  *smile*
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: wilko on 18.01. 2013 21:55
Otway idway  ouyah asay?
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Beezageezauk on 19.01. 2013 15:14
Hetup Motoanimal.

 If Groily's cam followers are worn too much I can get them built up and refaced.  The last set I had done worked out at £10 each but that was over a year ago.  They might be a little bit more now.  Anyway, give me a shout if I can help!!

Beezageezauk.
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 23.01. 2013 17:05
Hetup Motoanimal.

 If Groily's cam followers are worn too much I can get them built up and refaced.  The last set I had done worked out at £10 each but that was over a year ago.  They might be a little bit more now.  Anyway, give me a shout if I can help!!

Beezageezauk.

Thanks for that, Beezageezauk. I am expecting my machine shop to do that for nothing, seeing as how they b@#*ed them up in the first place!

Just so you guys know, Bill AKA ?groily? has posted me a second-hand set of cam followers at his own expense all the way from France! Furthermore he has refused any payment or even the refund of the postage. What a top bloke! Sorry if I have made you blush Bill, but ?credit where it?s due? and I do owe you a beer or two next time I get over. Appreciated! *smile*
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: groily on 23.01. 2013 21:24
And we'll have that beer Phil, no doubt about it, when you're next over. Long time since I've blushed; last time  . . . no, not going there! But seriously, there be kind folk on this forum who have saved me a fortune, found me bits and educated me on loads of things to do with my A (and my much-loved B, and a lot of other stuff come to that) over the years - so it's a pleasure just now and again to be able to reciprocate. It's a good corner of cyber-space. Cheers, Bill
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: KeithJ on 11.02. 2013 22:42
Hi, as a newby to this forum, I'd appreciate any comments regarding how beneficial it is to have stelited followers?  I am in the process of rebuilding an engine for my '59RR, owned by me for over 40 years, but not sure if it is worth the expense?  Had a quote to get a set of "standard" ones re-profiled and hardened but it was a substantial percentage of the cost of a new set.  So having seen the posts am thinking of Stelited ones.  ATB  Keith
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 20.02. 2013 06:05
Keith, I'm not sure if you have tried to purchase any A10 cam followers lately, but you may find that you are governed by what is availabile. I have been told that the company that used to make them in England have stated that they are no longer longer interested in doing so, and frankly, judging by my experiences that's no bad thing!  *smile* I could not find any to buy, hence my original post here. (Thanks again Bill!)

I would be carefull about how hard they are as traditionally I think followers tend to be of slightly softer material than the cam? (someone with greater knowledge than me will be able to comment) for the simple reason that followers are easier/cheaper to replace than the cam? I may be talking b*#$cks, but the fact remains that A10 cams and followers don't seem to last well.

Would some kind of phosphate treatment be better to retail oil on the surfaces, as I think that 'oil shear' is probably the main issue rather than the hardness of the surfaces (although that must play a part)?
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: bsa-bill on 20.02. 2013 10:32
sad to hear of any firm not producing stuff we would like to own, we have created quite an industry due to our need to restore old bikes to perfection and beyond, much of this not at all necessary.
(the following may get me shot down in flames but if it brings about a bit of useful converse then well and good)

Cams and Cam followers
Apart from those of us who race classic bikes and those of us who are interested in the technical aspect of engine performance ( all of whom I admire ) worn cams and followers are not going to make a great deal of difference to the running of the engine, sure you might need to adjust the tappets to take up the wear, I put a reconditioned set of followers in my Flash one of the inlet ones had been ground down more then the other, just means that tappet has a bit more thread showing, the camshaft could be argued to be more important as wear on it will affect the amount of valve lift but I doubt enough to be a problem for the vast majority of us and there is the option of taking a  bit of metal off the side opposite the cam to return the amount of travel although frowned upon by many ( always had difficulty getting my head around this one but I think that's how it works)
So basically for the most of us that ride for a toodle and the odd blast we are apt replace stuff that is not at all needed (but we all do it)
Comments welcomed *fight*
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 20.02. 2013 17:31
Point taken Bill, perhaps we are all a bit too fussy, and I am probably one of the worst offenders, I won't even re-use bolts that have lost their zinc plating! (anally retentive! *smile*)

It should be possibile to satisfactorily re-face followers and re-profile cams albeit at some expense, so I don't think there is any immediate cause for alarm, besides I'm sure some enterprising machine shop will manufacture followers if there is money to be made from us poor saddos who insist on perfection!

I'm probably the wrong person to talk to about 'making do' it's my strange mental condition, don't you know..... :P
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Topdad on 21.02. 2013 14:04

Re Bill's point about worn cams and followers and normal road performance in my young days i don't think I ever  even thought about cams and followers always reused them and can't say ever saw any real wear on those I worked on anyway couldn't have afforded a new cam then. I've still got my original cam and after nearly 50 yrs I'd use it if I needed one.As an aside  I also remember ford 105E engines had a cam which was so soft the lobes would wear right down smooth and the engine would run roughly on 3 and you'd look at the valve train and just see 1 pushrod not moving . Best wishes BobH
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: bsa-bill on 21.02. 2013 18:00
and that example of planned obsolescence  Bob is why Ford is still making cars and BSA is not making Bikes (there to good we're still riding them or maybe BSA just had to many colours )
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: KiwiGF on 21.02. 2013 20:17
My 2 cents worth.....my theory is that the cam and followers are meant to "wear together"  - it seems to me that the tolerances and design make it unlikely that there will be a full (line) contact between cam and follower until they "wear together" - so one will almost always find evidence of wear on these parts but it is nothing to worry about provided it's not excessive.

So I reckon that as long it looks like the wear has not gone through the hardened surface of each part I'd put the worn looking parts back in and certainly not regrind followers that had "worn in" to suit the cam. This assumes it's known which follower goes with each lobe etc.

On my bike however I had to replace the cam as I wanted a 356 not the 334 it came with (eventually SRM were able to supply a new 356, after being out of stock for many months) so I felt I had to get the followers ground as the accepted wisdom is to always "replace/refurbish" both the cam and followers together and the followers had (obvious) wear marks where the old cam had been contacting them - luckily a local guy was set up to do the little job on the followers, and it only cost me a few dollars. he reckoned there was still plenty of depth left in the hardened surface of the followers.

After 600 miles I had to strip the engine  *problem*  and there was no evidence of wear on these parts, absolutely none, so if my theory is correct it must take quite a few miles for the parts to wear together! Either that or I was lucky and I'm getting a good "line" contact between the new cam and reground/polished followers.
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: BVSR on 26.02. 2013 21:20
Hello, here is one nos set for sale.:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A7-A10-NEW-OLD-STOCK-CAM-FOLLOWERS-SET-67-332-67-333-/160979017873?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item257b18e091

Markku
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 26.02. 2013 22:53
£100! bloody hell! and that's just the starting bid, still 'supply and demand' rules I suppose?
Just got Groily's kindly donated set of followers back from refacing and parkerising. They look good but I suppose time will tell eh?

Bills point about worn followers is a valid one, however I have never seen a stripped A10 where the cam/followers was anything other than scrap, but maybe that is just because I end up buying mistreated articles? I'll post a picture of the cam in my latest acquisition when I can find it. (I must clear up my garage...)
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Angus on 27.02. 2013 09:15
I take it the guy has listed these wrong or the picture is from another angle, they look different from the ones above

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261175155280?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 27.02. 2013 09:55
hey!, roller cam followers for an A10- REALLY! wow. anyone seen these before? or are they mis-listed?
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: bsa-bill on 27.02. 2013 11:49
would be a good idea if possible, these look wrong -no slot and the roller looks to be larger in width then the follower so how does it get  up the tunnel

I've asked the question
the sellers name seems familiar
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: bsa-bill on 27.02. 2013 12:21
Quote
I removed them from a road rocket. cheers.

Sellers response !

He also has 100% feedback from 1001 items and much of the rest of the bike seems to be in his other items.
I have a similar device instead of the indent plunger and it has given no trouble over many years, not sure I would want to subject the small pin for the roller in these to the forces involved in the cam situation
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 27.02. 2013 12:29
Well I never! I didn't know that such a thing existed. I wonder what stops them twisting in the bores, maybe the fact that they are tracking the surface of the cam? Oh bugga, now I want a set..... *conf*
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: muskrat on 28.02. 2013 11:54
The plus side of the roller/less friction would be more than wiped out due to the tighter radius giving much less duration on the cam.
Cheers
Title: Re: A10 Cam Followers wanted
Post by: Motoanimal on 28.02. 2013 12:43
Good point Musky, now I don't want a set  *smiley4*