The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: isuzu on 26.07. 2013 19:43

Title: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 26.07. 2013 19:43
Hi All,
I  did 2 modifications this winter to get the A7 1956 better;
- new carburettor that should be on this bike. Well it is definitely running better with that.
- oil filter into the return line. After doing this I started and saw oil getting back into the tank. Now the weather is nice I made short trip. Short because after a short while I saw smoke coming out of the exhausts (grey white). Also dripping oil from the engine carter.
So I think when driving the oil cannot be pumped quick enough through the filter. I'm using 20 -50 by the way.
Is this something somebody else also experienced before?
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: bsa-bill on 26.07. 2013 21:32
Quote
Also dripping oil from the engine carter.

Think you might have mistyped something there, would be helpful to know where the oil was dripping from

If you saw oil returning into the tank at presumably low revs and cold oil I think your filter should be fine provided you fitted an element recommended, I use the filter for a Citrion 2CV, these have little flow resistance you can easily blow through them.
other suggestion would be that you have the oil flow through the filter in the right direction, should be arrows on the filter head to show oil flow.

I've run a filter for many years now and oil flow is no problem, the capacity of filter elements are designed to pass oil flow from  bigger engines than our As (well 2CV apart) so it should be no problem
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: muskrat on 26.07. 2013 22:04
Yep I agree with Bill, might be hooked up in reverse. Care must be taken where you route the hoses, don't want a split hose.
Cheers
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: muskrat on 26.07. 2013 22:38
Just had another thunk. If she wet sumped a bit and you topped the oil tank up I'd say it's come out the breather. And caused the smoke.
Cheers
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 27.07. 2013 16:35
Thanks for answering guys. It was indeed spitting from the breather. During running the engine the sump fills up and causing the smoke. I did the conversion oke; no wrong connections. But I did away with it this morning and routed the old way without the filter system. Fresh sae30 oil in it and started. After some idling there was again coming smoke from the exhausts. Is there a possibility of filling the sump up with a running engine? Faulty oil pressure valve or something else?
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: Greybeard on 27.07. 2013 23:25
Could the smoke be from surplus oil in the rocker box, getting sucked past the inlet valve guides? I'm wondering if the oil tank return after the rocker feed pipe connection has a blockage. This would be like putting a finger over the tank return pipe hole to force oil up the rocker feed pipe.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: wilko on 28.07. 2013 00:53
Give the ball in your pickup tube a wiggle and giggle!
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: muskrat on 28.07. 2013 09:02
Another thunk. The rockerbox banjo bolts, are they original? If the hole in them is too big more oil will flow there rather than back to the tank. Resulting in the sump slowly filling.
Cheers
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 30.07. 2013 11:55
Hi, The banjo bolts are the originals and I never had this problem before the oilfilter mod, so that is not the culprit. I was getting quite depressed last days about this problem but yesterday evening I pulled her again out of the garage. Started and idling wonderful and after 7 minutes smoke came again from the exhausts. This time I 've let her idling for about 20 minutes (lots of white smoke) and by that time the smoke got less. Reason I did this because of the suspicion of residue of oil in the exhaust (had the exhaust off earlier to see if the oil got into the silencing stuff; but nothing came out).
After that the machine is working like before and I even got a grin back on my face!

Still I'm wondering why the filter system (bought at norbsa) is not working as it should. It needs more pressure in the retour and nearly killed my engine.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: chaterlea25 on 30.07. 2013 13:44
HI Isuzu,
I have fitted numerous filter units in the return lines of many different bikes
Never had a problem!!!
The oil must flow from the outside of the filter to the centre

Use a pressure oil can to pump oil in the correct direction through the filter and pipes to see if there is a blockage
A lot of fillters have anti drain valves under the circle of holes around the outer perimiter
these prevent oil flowing in the reverse direction
The car engines that the filters are designed for pump massive quantities of oil through the filter per minute
and do not build back pressure
The small pumps on our BSA's will not trouble them

HTH
John
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 02.08. 2013 11:03
I did the conversion like you say. It was possible to blow through easy. Still the carter filled up. Wonder if my oil pump is just a bit too worn out?
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: A10Boy on 02.08. 2013 12:54
Please, just for me, what exactly is a Carter?  *conf*
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 02.08. 2013 12:58
The part of engines where oil comes together, to be pumped up again ....
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: muskrat on 02.08. 2013 13:50
That would be sump I gather.
Cheers
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: A10Boy on 02.08. 2013 20:57
The part of engines where oil comes together, to be pumped up again ....

Thanks, its 40 years since I trained as a mechanic, and I've never heard the Sump called a Carter! Must be a local thing I guess! Interesting.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: bsa-bill on 02.08. 2013 22:12
Quote
Thanks, its 40 years since I trained as a mechanic, and I've never heard the Sump called a Carter!

Maybe if you worked for DAF you would have heard the term

Dutch for sump
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: a10 gf on 02.08. 2013 22:43
a little offtopic all this, but le 'carter moteur' in French = sump.
more here > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_%28m%C3%A9canique%29
Which mentions a J. Harrison Carter > http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunbeam.htm
"a prominent feature of all Sunbeam machines was J. Harrison Carter’s oil tight chain lubricator and gear cover. The casing contained a small oil bath which lubricated the chain to reduce wear"
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 02.08. 2013 23:02
Well, in Holland we call sumps; carters. Thought it was an English word, but it seems else ....
I suggest Wet sumping is from now on Wet carting ..... *smile*
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: wilko on 03.08. 2013 01:18
Take off your sump plate and check the non return ball in the pick up tube isn't obstructed or stuck.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: muskrat on 03.08. 2013 03:50

Like Americans call a gear box a transmission.
Must be hard for those that have English as a 2nd language.
Cheers
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: bsa-bill on 03.08. 2013 09:11
Quote
Must be hard for those that have English as a 2nd language.

Strange that we Brits should be so anti "Johnny Foreigner" when we are a mixture of so many races (conquerors ) and our language (English) is a miss mash of Latin (Romans) French (Plantagenet's) and lots of other Europeans (Saxons,Danes) not to mention the Celts, Picts .....
We should be able to understands just about anyone's speak  - Oops forgot to put Oz in there somewhere
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: mayes on 03.08. 2013 12:08
Hi I would run the bike for some short rides 5 miles get bike hot allow to cool and run again this should clear any excess oil from the sump,some very interesting ans and local language here always interesting mate.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: A10Boy on 04.08. 2013 18:45
According to a quick internet search, the dutch word for sump is "vergaarbak".

Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: a10 gf on 04.08. 2013 19:15
So we need a well functioning anti-vergaarbaking valve?  *smile*
Sorry for the slightly offtopic.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: wilko on 05.08. 2013 01:08
I gave up smoking 2 weeks ago, no oiling problems here!
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: A10Boy on 05.08. 2013 09:45
So, Carter is actually the Portugese  word for sump......... That explains my ignorance, I only know a few Portugese words, mainly - cerveja [Beer], batatas fritas [Potato Chips] and praia [Beach]. And now I can add the word for sump...  *smiley4*

Obrigado meus companheiros.



Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 05.08. 2013 10:12
Well my A7 is running the old fashioned way and after work I do "rustieke tochtjes" through the polder for fun. I'm leaving the filter out.
I want to introduce another dutch technical term for this week, maybe combine it with a price which off course can be collected at my home.
The new word is "ventieldopje"  .......
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: bsa-bill on 05.08. 2013 10:32
Quote
ventieldopje

My Nieghbour is Dutch, so I could say I asked her - but she's on holiday
I could say I'm just clever -  but suspect most of you would remember posts I made that would prove that wrong
so I'll fez up -  Google translate    =  valvecap
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: Greybeard on 05.08. 2013 10:59
So, Carter is actually the Portugese  word for sump.

I wonder if the English word 'catcher' has the same origin as 'carter'. It would seem to have the same meaning in this case.
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: isuzu on 05.08. 2013 11:06
Americans say - oil pan !
Title: Re: Smoking after installing return line oil filter
Post by: muskrat on 05.08. 2013 19:57
Get back on track please fellas.
Start a new thread in Off topic & Diverse for different names for parts.
It all sounds Double Dutch to me.
Cheers