The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: Brucie64 on 10.09. 2013 15:55
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I have a funny feeling my A10 maybe in need of some deep fettling this coming winter and thought it might be worthwhile having the whole engine checked over. Does anyone know how much it would cost to get SRM to weave their magic on the old lump?. I appreciate it maybe an open ended question as who knows what they might find (the motor might be fine and it might be my head that's shot).
Looking at their website it states around £470 for a deep strip (labour), if the worst comes to the worst and I need crank balancing, rebore & parts (pistons & rings, needle roller converstion etc). Am I looking at over £1k *sad2*
Anyone recommend any other engineering works that are competant, confident and kind hearted in the Bucks/Beds area who may take pity on this nervous individual ?
B.
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You are definitely way over 1K GBP. That would cover the strip down and needle roller conversion, which, must (or should) include a new billet pump, so you're already at 1,200 GBP with no other work. I am not going to try to guess the total but would be very surprised if it were less than 2K GBP. That said, from this end of the world it's hard to identify a shop that you could trust more, but I know there are other competent shops out there, based on reports from other members.
Richard L.
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Hy Brucie it is a lot cheaper in the n/east, of corse it depends what's found when it is strip/d. Roller bearing
Is the way to go.cheers wardley bob.
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Hi Guys,
I suppose good engineering comes at a cost but £2k *eek*. I can see it now....no holiday next year dear, can't afford it. I have a bike to sort - ho hum.
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From my readings in the OBM, Ebay and other sources over the past 12 months. Many people spend thousands with these very good rebuilds. Then they sell them with only a few miles on the clock 'since rebuild'. My old girl has done 68,000 miles without all the posh stuff. Mine has new shells, bearings, pistons and valves and I was complimented at Battlesbridge how nice it sounds. Call me half empty, but I don't think you will get your money back from a top rebuild. Must admit I have the new SRM oil pump and still drain the sump every week, albeit it is a great pump.
Regards Colin
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G'day Bruce.
To do a rebuild myself I plan on at least $1K au. That's most wearing parts and the machining (bore + crank grind).
Cheers
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If you don't feel able to do it your self then definitely try SRM.
2k sounds a lot but it ain't much when you boil it all down and you then have an engine you can 100% trust and has some guarantees.
I paid 1300 pounds for just my paintwork with SRM but it was surely worth it as it is absolutely perfect and of the highest standard!
Often what looks like expensive is actually quite cheap. there is an old saying:
It is unwise to pay too much,
But it is unwise to pay too little,
When you pay too much you loose a little money, that’s all!
When you pay too little you sometimes loose everything because what you bought was incapable of doing what you bought it for.
The common law of balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot, “It can’t be done”
If you deal with the lowest bidder then it is best to add something for the risk you run,
And if you can pay that, you will have enough to pay for something better in the first place!!
Good luck,
julian
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Hi Bruce
I had my A10 plunger engine overhauled by SRM last year and while they did an excellent job it came at a hefty price. When they checked it out they discovered that the crankshaft was damaged and had to be replaced with a second hand one which they sourced. I opted for the bush rather than the roller bearing conversion. A re-bore, new pistons and rods, new pump along with a new timing case which the couriers managed to damage (In both directions..!!) plus countless other bits and bobs and before I knew it I was over £3000.
My main annoyance was that when the engine was returned the pistons came in a box with the barrels fitted loosely which meant that I had to shell out for a couple of ring clamps. They also forgot to return the ball bearing which houses the tappet followers and duly added another couple of quid for a replacement set. All in all they were very easy to deal with and did a great job as the engine now runs really well but be prepared to hide the receipts from the wife..!!.
Peter
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Before you worry about the costs and hassle of a re-build, why not establish what is wrong with your engine? You say you have a "funny feeling" it might need a deep fettling, but based on what? Is it smoking badly? is it knocking or rumbling, or is it just down on power a bit?
Also, it depends on your mileage, are you doing loads of miles, or is it a sunday fun bike with little use? Do you know how many miles since the last re-build?
If the engine doesn't use oil and doesn't rattle or rumble [more than average], you might find that you only need the top end looking at, maybe a valve grind job and perhaps a new set of rings or at worst a re-bore and new pistons.
What are the symptoms? You can tell me, I'm a doctor.
Andy
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Bruce I second A10boy, also, you could get get an idea of the state of top end wear from a compression test which any competent mechanic could do for you.
The engines are relatively simple to work on, so much so a partial strip down can be easily done to assess wear eg cylinder head off, timing cover off would reveal most of what you need to know, maybe 4 hours to do that and reassemble if nothing wrong found?
But if it ain't broke .......
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But if it ain't broke .......
Strip it and make it faster anyway?
Is that what you mean Kiwi?
J *smile*
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hi Brucie, I'm with these guys ,have a look inside her ,start at the top and work downwards .You'll get a better idea of her general condition by looking at the bores ,pistons and valve gear ,then have a feel for wear on big ends ,small ends etc ,If all okay below consider if you have the time /money and progress to the bottom end to clean out the sludge trap,etc or if happy put her back together and enjoy next year . Thats what winter are for ,messing about with bikes .Then you can say " i did the engine work myself " it's a great feeling and with everyone here helping with ideas not too daunting a task, regards BobH
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Hi Brucie,
Three years ago I had bottom end of my engine done by T&L Engineering in Elstow, Beds (http://www.vintage-engine.net) and have had no problems. Cost was just short of £800 including VAT. I didn't have the end feed conversion done as the mileage I'm likely to do on her doesn't, in my view, justify the cost.
Below is what they did - dynamic balancing of the crank was £150 but well worth it.
DEGREASE/HOT WASH COMPONENTS
WELD CRACKED SUMP THREAD AND REPAIR THREAD 1/4"BSW
FIT CRANK CASE BREATH PIPE IN DRIVE SIDE
CLEAN OUT SLUDGE TRAP AND FIT NEW PLUG
REPLACE TIMING SIDE MAIN BUSH, FIT NEW AND BORE TO SUIT CRANK
BALANCE 2CYL. PARALLEL TWIN CRANK . PISTONS AND RODS (ROAD)
REGRIND B/E MAINS M/C TWIN INCL. NEW B/E BEARINGS
MAKE NEW BUSH TO REPLACE SPINNING BUSH ON TIMING SIDE
STRIP AND REBUILD BOTTOM END OF ENGINE
DRIVE SIDE MAIN BEARING
FIT AND SUPPLY DRIVE SIDE OIL SEAL
FIT HELICOILS IN T/SIDE CASE
MISC BREATH PIPE DRIVE SIDE
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I'll second that recommendation Jim. I have used them for 4 crank jobs in the past four or five years, plus several rebores, new valve seats, ali welding etc, and barring a glitch with an attempt to eliminate the need for a drive side shim on my A (which they sorted immediately for nothing), I have been 100% happy with the quaity and the costs. The work they did on a set of AMC crankcases - drive side in 3 parts after thrown rod and poor previous welding failure, the need to make completely new centre section for the drive side roller main etc - was exceptional. A few folk from here have seen the results of that in the AJM club's Jampot magazine. Exellent for white metalling of rods etc too on older engines (such as a 5T Triumph I sent them recently). A first class engine reconditioning company, who are happy to take on difficult jobs on vintage and classic engines, even where tooling has to be made. Whether they'd do an end-feed & needle roller conversion though, I have no idea! Cheers, Bill
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+1 for T&L I had a fair bit done on my engine there inclusding cylinder reline, timing bush and big end regrinds plus loads of thread repairs. Derrick sorted out a load of other little issues which I didn't spot. Very nice people to deal with, you can tell they know their onions.
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Hi Brucie,
I agree with what Julian says in his first post above.
SRM will give the motor an autopsy and give you a fully priced up schedule of work required for about £150 and then you will know the facts and options available in much detail.
The problem you will then have is deciding what to do or how far to go.
My crank was OK on journals but needed spline repairs and I decided to get SRM to crack test and balance it.
The next dilemma is do you re-use 50 year old con rods on your refurbed crank or put new ones in at £300 a pop.
Then comes the end feed versus staying with the bush but costs of bush to replace properly line ream etc you might as well do the conversion as its not a lot more and it runs smoother and no shimming up of the crank in future, more oil where its needed.
Good luck with it whatever you do but a professionally rebuilt motor will be worth it wherever you go.
Regards
Stuart
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When my motor seized just 250 miles after a major rebuild, in desperation I took the bike to Roger at Cake Street (Suffolk). He found a catalogue of woe within and fixed the whole thing including pulling the motor in and out of the bike for £1k. Though admittedly this didn't involve a rebore or new pistons (though he did give a light hone), nor a crank grind.
I've only managed around 2500 miles in the couple of years since but she's running like a goodun.
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I think SRM would be similar money for a motor out/in operation and straight forward labour for rebuild.
Its the new parts, up-grade options and engineering services that costs the money but you pay your money and take your choice.
Stuart
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Hi Brucie64, I have had 2 A10 motors done by SRM, I live in California, no needless to say it was even more pricey. One motor was done in '96 and the other in 2001, I completely voluntarily, bought into the idea that I had to have it done. I won't go into the details of various issues I later had with SRM, but as hindsight is 20/20, I wouldn't do it again. However this is because, since the 1st motor done in '96, has done 11,000 miles, I don't ride enough miles to have warranted the conversion, especially as I change oil about every 400miles. So if you just ride on weekends and sunny days, a standard careful, rebuild, using a reputable machinist and quality parts, is perfectly adequate, and if done correctly and the oil is changed regularly, you should get 50,000+ . I do however suscribe to some of the newer improvements to ignition, and carbs.
Good luck with your decision.
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I have an A10 bottom end/barrels with T & L at the moment. Derrick is always a pleasure to deal with. He has been very clear on what needs doing and, more importantly, what does not. We all know that predicting exactly how repairs to 50 year old parts will go is difficult, which makes good communication so important.
T & L don't offer the timing side conversion, or didn't when I asked. Perhaps they're conscious of the pampered, limited mileage lives that many of our machines lead, and just don't see the need.
I'm looking forward to comparing Derrick's crank balance with a couple of others.
More news to come... as and when.